invalid Shaft overcharge damage

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Does twins have infinite range? Does rico? Does hammer? Can any of these turrets take out 90% of a medium hull's HP without double damage, in an instant?

Shaft arcade shots have same range as Rico after the nerf...

 

Shaft has incredibly low DPS. It can deal massive damage but the reload is extremely long. When Shaft lost its ability to finish enemies with arcade shots, it started to lose against Thunder or even UP Rail. Guess what? I switched to Rico and upgraded it to M2 because Shaft became totally useless.

[Sir_Duff 73]

What should happen, is: it's like a Vulcan is shooting and very slow knocking off your aim.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

 

lol triggered

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

lol triggered

Honestly surprising response given the seriousness of this topic.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

lol triggered

 

Honestly surprising response given the seriousness of this topic.

Really, the seriousness of the topic?  My reply was too.  Just because I inflect my opinion of what I think of people and their thoughts into the conversation doesn't mean "I'm lost", m***ns!  Triggered, perhaps, pissed, definitely, outraged that there are lame brains that would even consider proffering such dribble means one of two things, either they have no grasp of what this game should be, or two, have never considered the implications of what they say and the realities of game play beyond their own.

 

The absolute disregard for any real thought or dialog in their own head, prior to typing these things out is absolutely maddening, or, their absolute disregard for the topics and "balance", and I quote that because even that which is "balanced" in the game is another topic of argument, means they have no intent of playing a game, but just logging in and winning doing what they do.

 

So yes, I'm pissed when I read cr4p like that because one would hope that after so long, after so much debate, these sorts of things would just not even come up.  Shaft has been nerf to near second class relevance in this game, a far cry from it's "laserless", single shot heavy hull killing days.  It is no more a threat than any other on the map, it all depends on the skill of the player.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Really, the seriousness of the topic?  My reply was too.  Just because I inflect my opinion of what I think of people and their thoughts into the conversation doesn't mean "I'm lost", m***ns!  Triggered, perhaps, pissed, definitely, outraged that there are lame brains that would even consider proffering such dribble means one of two things, either they have no grasp of what this game should be, or two, have never considered the implications of what they say and the realities of game play beyond their own.

 

The absolute disregard for any real thought or dialog in their own head, prior to typing these things out is absolutely maddening, or, their absolute disregard for the topics and "balance", and I quote that because even that which is "balanced" in the game is another topic of argument, means they have no intent of playing a game, but just logging in and winning doing what they do.

 

So yes, I'm pissed when I read cr4p like that because one would hope that after so long, after so much debate, these sorts of things would just not even come up.  Shaft has been nerf to near second class relevance in this game, a far cry from it's "laserless", single shot heavy hull killing days.  It is no more a threat than any other on the map, it all depends on the skill of the player.

Why don't you go play some games and see how "second-class" Shaft really is. That's my whole counterargument since your 3 paragraph response presented nothing but that one point. 

We seem to have very different opinions on what Shaft should be. 

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Well actually I do have one more point from your previous argument: You said that Shaft needs to work really hard to achieve that power. 

 

Well guess what that doesn't matter when it comes to game balance. How powerful a turret is is judged by its maximum potential. Magnum is a very hard turret to use but it has potential to be really OP so it is OP. 

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Well actually I do have one more point from your previous argument: You said that Shaft needs to work really hard to achieve that power. 

 

Well guess what that doesn't matter when it comes to game balance. How powerful a turret is is judged by its maximum potential. Magnum is a very hard turret to use but it has potential to be really OP so it is OP. 

 

Woah, slow down there.  OP, Shaft?  In what manner is it OP?  That it stops one or two consistent players from just running a loop from your flag, to the enemies, and then back?  Rate of fire on a shaft ensures that it simply cannot compete on all level of metrics used to grade and score player performance, and that alone is in terms of kills, not survivability.  If you take into account scope blindness and immobility, the death ratio is increased significantly.  Now throw in variables like the action moved from your vantage point to another, and you have to decide whether or not to sacrifice your charge and relocate, or wait and see if the action moves back or maybe new action from another group starts as another front from the opposition.  Decide whether or not to take the hits your getting to kill someone intercepting your flag carrier or an enemy flag carrier, thus decreasing your KD but impacting the overall team score for that game or disengage and hope you can escape whoever is shooting you and save yourself the death count.

 

It's clear you are just butt hurt over being one shotted.  This is about over heating a sniper unit that already gets few shots per game, now you want it to sacrifice it's charge, recharge, and rescope time too?  It lives to sit and choose targets, it's why it's there.  Do not draw parallels either between a poorly conceived turret like Magnum and a purpose built, properly designed turret like Shaft, there are no comparisons.  Shaft does it's job, with many limitations, artillery on the other hand should be immobile for a period of time prior to firing, not running around and plopping shells at short range.  The mere notion of it is ridiculous and everybody knows it.  As for playing other games, that is again a non-starter, Tanki is Tanki, other games are other games.

 

In regards to maximum potential, Smokeys can close the gap quickly and run circles around Shafts, as do rails, and firebirds, and freezes,and vulcans, and izzies, and blah blah blah.  Once again, define the OP aspect of this turret properly, in relation to the rest of the available turret platforms, and we might have a conversation, but again, overheating a camping unit is basically the end of that unit.  Your little blanket potential = OP is like "If were racing cars and yours can quarter mile 3 times as fast as mine, but can't turn on any kind of real track but I can take hair pin turns, I'm mad, because if I happen to be in the quarter mile, I can't keep winning." 

 

All I hear are people that have short and medium range turrets whining that they can't Viking up and kill the big ol' nasty Shaft from really far away, again, and again, and again, and again.  "How dare you shoot me with any kind of possible effect while I'm still far enough that I don't want to drug up yet, I'm saving those for when I get to your base, duh???"  Oh, so sorry that people can't endure the notion that not everything is face to face knock down drag'em out fist fights in Tanki.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

It may seem OP in the low ranks, but once you get to the m2 ranks and up, it's not as powerful as you may think, mainly because by then, many people are experienced enough to deal with a shaft.

 

It might be strong down there in the low ranks, maybe because the m2 protection doesn't unlock until the rank of major. But after that, the protection will just take away that one shot advantage.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

All I hear are people that have short and medium range turrets whining that they can't Viking up and kill the big ol' nasty Shaft from really far away, again, and again, and again, and again. "How dare you shoot me with any kind of possible effect while I'm still far enough that I don't want to drug up yet, I'm saving those for when I get to your base, duh???" Oh, so sorry that people can't endure the notion that not everything is face to face knock down drag'em out fist fights in Tanki.

The funny thing is that some Viking Thunders do not even try to hit the enemy Shaft which is just 150 or 200 metres away. They get great k/d and score just by close-ranging with full drugs which is NOT the most effective way to use Thunder.

 

It is alarming that Thunder can be THAT effective even when the player uses it as Twins. The true potencial of Thunder is shown when a Railgun player switches to Thunder and starts to camp.

 

Shaft arcade shots need buff so the Shaft could effectively defend itself after firing fully charged sniper shot.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

It may seem OP in the low ranks, but once you get to the m2 ranks and up, it's not as powerful as you may think, mainly because by then, many people are experienced enough to deal with a shaft.

 

It might be strong down there in the low ranks, maybe because the m2 protection doesn't unlock until the rank of major. But after that, the protection will just take away that one shot advantage.

 but the protection costs 100k... if you can afford that it means that the shaft could probably also afford heavy capacitors which shall cancel out you protection.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

It may seem OP in the low ranks, but once you get to the m2 ranks and up, it's not as powerful as you may think, mainly because by then, many people are experienced enough to deal with a shaft.

 

It might be strong down there in the low ranks, maybe because the m2 protection doesn't unlock until the rank of major. But after that, the protection will just take away that one shot advantage.

 

 

 but the protection costs 100k... if you can afford that it means that the shaft could probably also afford heavy capacitors which shall cancel out you protection.

Heavy Caps means worse firing rate, longer charge, it's a nightmare, plus the reduced panning horizontal speed is just one more deal breaker for shaft on anything other than something completely long distance.

 

And not trying to nerf the protection, but I am going to point out, it completely removes the risk factor of one shot on the healthy hull, thus nullifying Shafts one true power.  Again, balance, and where you put your money.  I dislike it, but I respect it, the protection does what it does.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

The funny thing is that some Viking Thunders do not even try to hit the enemy Shaft which is just 150 or 200 metres away. They get great k/d and score just by close-ranging with full drugs which is NOT the most effective way to use Thunder.

 

It is alarming that Thunder can be THAT effective even when the player uses it as Twins. The true potencial of Thunder is shown when a Railgun player switches to Thunder and starts to camp.

 

Shaft arcade shots need buff so the Shaft could effectively defend itself after firing fully charged sniper shot.

To this point, just as a side bar, I have encountered these players, and let me tell you, it's ironic that I'm getting "sniped" by Thunders, midfield, and guess what, they hide behind few trees and you're looking all around for them, it's annoying.  Still, no one is putting lasers on M3 Thunders now, are they?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

To this point, just as a side bar, I have encountered these players, and let me tell you, it's ironic that I'm getting "sniped" by Thunders, midfield, and guess what, they hide behind few trees and you're looking all around for them, it's annoying.  Still, no one is putting lasers on M3 Thunders now, are they?

Railgun can do the same thing tbh.

[Dragon-Judgement 1,529]

Shaft was already nerfed to the floor with the introduction of a laser and the aim being steadied. Personally, I wouldn't nerf it any further.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Railgun can do the same thing tbh.

Ladies and gentleman, I defer the podium to Diesel and his(hers?) rather pointed and true comment. 

 

Might I add Smokeys can, and do, do the same thing.  No tell tale line back to them for it, no flashing sign over their head either.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Ladies and gentleman, I defer the podium to Diesel and his(hers?) rather pointed and true comment. 

 

Might I add Smokeys can, and do, do the same thing.  No tell tale line back to them for it, no flashing sign over their head either.

I'm a dude. And well railgun always has the field of view advantage over shaft. Plus it's damage is more than enough to take down a number of enemies, yes even with its alts.

[thesquarerootof2 165]

 

Ok let me clarify something. The holding fire alone isn't OP. But in addition to that: 

• Shaft has a REALLY short charge time for its damage. If a Shaft starts scoping in on a light hull it's dead in 2-3 seconds. It doesn't even need to be scoped in in the first place, from seeing to lethal charge, it's 2-3 seconds. For medium hulls, it's 4 seconds to slice out 90% of their HP. You're saying that Shaft's job is to hold fire and wait for a strategic target, right? So why can it also do this? 
• The laser is not visible until you're near full-charge. I would think that if you had built up enough damage to one-shot a light hull without a double damage and a heavy hull with, there should at least be some indication of that. 
• Railgun and Striker fire loud and proud and leave really easy ways to trace the shot back to its sender. Shaft leaves nothing but a little yellow spark on the target. I often need to check the kills list to realize the guy who suddenly exploded was sniped. 

You are right about how holding fire alone is not OP. But with all these things? It quite is. 

[thesquarerootof2 165]

It may seem OP in the low ranks, but once you get to the m2 ranks and up, it's not as powerful as you may think, mainly because by then, many people are experienced enough to deal with a shaft.

 

It might be strong down there in the low ranks, maybe because the m2 protection doesn't unlock until the rank of major. But after that, the protection will just take away that one shot advantage.

The first point I can't answer to because I am not an M2 or above. 

 

The second point: I don't think it counts as balanced if you need to buy protections to "balance" it. 

[thesquarerootof2 165]

Railgun can do the same thing tbh.

 

Ladies and gentleman, I defer the podium to Diesel and his(hers?) rather pointed and true comment. 

 

Might I add Smokeys can, and do, do the same thing.  No tell tale line back to them for it, no flashing sign over their head either.

 

Translation: Railgun and Smoky can do the same thing with double damage as Shaft can without double damage. 

 

Smoky in fact seems to lose this at M2 and above, judging from the stats. I know that Railgun has the High-Caliber Ammo alt but even with this it's not common to one-shot without double damage. Again, this is from looking at raw stats. 

[thesquarerootof2 165]

And PS I do think Smoky's infinite-range crit is OP so nice try with that one. 

[Amagi 1,728]

Back in 2011 when Shaft first came out, when the yellow bar got filled, it would actually overheat and exit sniping mode. It was universally hated.

See 2:18

[sezze100 416]

Im not a shaft user ( well i bought shaft on low account to try ) but i encountered many . Yes shaft can be very powerfull , but only in specific situations/maps . It is allready severely nerfed by its inability to move when scoping and a laser which shows where it is . Arcade mode is rather useless .

So if your problem is a shaft sitting somewhere ... just go for it and kill it , its pretty simple since you know where he is .Most of the time , shafts are just sitting ducks and any experienced player will know how to take care of it .

So no , shafts do not need nerf ... in fact ... i find it in the low spectrum of all weapons available . Very useless in  most maps ...

If you want to add overheating , i would say : buff the arcade mode on it , but shooting constantly in arcade mode makes it overheat . This would make kinda sense , but only in arcade mode  .

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Ok let me clarify something. The holding fire alone isn't OP. But in addition to that: 

• Shaft has a REALLY short charge time for its damage. If a Shaft starts scoping in on a light hull it's dead in 2-3 seconds. It doesn't even need to be scoped in in the first place, from seeing to lethal charge, it's 2-3 seconds. For medium hulls, it's 4 seconds to slice out 90% of their HP. You're saying that Shaft's job is to hold fire and wait for a strategic target, right? So why can it also do this? 
• The laser is not visible until you're near full-charge. I would think that if you had built up enough damage to one-shot a light hull without a double damage and a heavy hull with, there should at least be some indication of that. 
• Railgun and Striker fire loud and proud and leave really easy ways to trace the shot back to its sender. Shaft leaves nothing but a little yellow spark on the target. I often need to check the kills list to realize the guy who suddenly exploded was sniped. 

You are right about how holding fire alone is not OP. But with all these things? It quite is. 

 

 

The first point I can't answer to because I am not an M2 or above. 

 

The second point: I don't think it counts as balanced if you need to buy protections to "balance" it. 

 

 

Translation: Railgun and Smoky can do the same thing with double damage as Shaft can without double damage. 

 

Smoky in fact seems to lose this at M2 and above, judging from the stats. I know that Railgun has the High-Caliber Ammo alt but even with this it's not common to one-shot without double damage. Again, this is from looking at raw stats. 

My last thoughts on this for now, only so much time for Tanki in life, but, that said...

 

Number of shots possible in one MM round (420 seconds)

 

M0                              M3

Smokey                            233                             280

Shaft(scope, full charge)     28                               32

 

Delta (Smokey's Favor)     255                             248

 

 

Max damage possible in one MM round (420 seconds)

 

M0                              M3

Smokey                            94710                          225551

Shaft(scope, full charge)     42000                          96000

 

Delta (Smokey's Favor)     52710                         129551

 

Time between shots

 

M0                              M3

Smokey                            1.8                              1.5

Shaft(scope, full charge)     15 .0                           13.0

 

Delta (Smokey's Favor)     13.2                            11.5

 

This is of course theoretical, but then, all variances apply equally in the engine, thus this works as an example.  I don't even know if I need to elaborate any further other than to say the Smokey CAN do that in theory while moving, a shaft could use part of that time to reposition, but could not shoot, lest it decrease it's recharge.

 

Take away is:

 

Please leave the beleaguered Shaft alone everyone.

 

PS: Yes we could do apple to apples for EVERY turret in the game and maybe find some closer parity (don't know, haven't tried), but Smokey is the base line for all turrets in Tanki,

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

(I tried really hard to format all that, isn't working, out of time)