The problems of TO [Part 2: Battles, MUs, and MM]

[Guest]

I think all M2 equipment should unlock at the same rank, similar to what they did with M3.

 

Not sure if I feel that way about M1, but if done right, then sure.

 

Done right would mean that players with M1 can no longer play with M0 players.

 

Maybe this is where they are going with the GS mechanic, yet including paints in GS is silly, so maybe not.

Honestly the GS thing shouldn't show up when you press R or V in a battle. Because of this update, I can't see how many MUs my opponent has which makes it really hard to know whether the guy is one M level or the next.

[Pythor 1,354]

I think one reason Tanki is not getting new players is because of how they changed the low ranks system.1- You cannot play pro battles until you reach WO1.. Very bad. 2-You cannot play/invite friends until you reach WO1. Absolutely terrible!

[PryPro 1]

MM  has rubbish balance , this is how use many mult has win the game , this game is world No.1 mult game

[austen_pierce 1,948]

MM has rubbish balance , this is how use many mult has win the game , this game is world No.1 mult game

I can’t tell if MM is the culprit or if basic human nature is to blame. Or maybe a combination of both. I have seen a lot, A LOT of battles end in a complete shut out of one team.

 

Some start out that way, with one team coming out swinging while the other team sleeps. Other battles are skewed by the map - one side is at a disadvantage regardless of player equipment and skill.

 

But what I’ve noticed lately is that players just give up. With battles being so short at 10 minutes, I beleive that once a team pulls ahead, there just isn’t any chance for the losing team to reclaim the lead. So the exodus begins, followed by spawn-kill slaughters, then new players join the losing team (thanks MM) and immediately rage-quit. These battles don’t end early since winning teams hold flags and rugby balls in order to maximize their crystal hoard.

 

Bottom line - sure MM could use some tweaks, but no computer algorithm will ever counter basic human nature. Thus, no algorithm can force players to finish a battle once said players perceive the cause is lost.

 

Furthermore, no algorithm will force players to keep playing a game once said players perceive they will lose most battles.

 

.

Edited August 29, 2018 by austen_pierce

[Strikechard123 241]

The problems of TO [Part 3: this game is completely P2W, and devs keep doing bad updates that ALWAYS favour P2W players]

[Guest]

The problems of TO [Part 3: this game is completely P2W, and devs keep doing bad updates that ALWAYS favour P2W players]

Nice one, but part 3 will discuss game performance and how TX killed TO. (but not the way you think)

And part 4 will be a "where do we go from here" kind of thing.

[NatchGa 665]

Ok im really sick of the "Pay 2 Win" argument everyone is making now. 

 

The only time that argument is somewhat valid are the ranks below marshal, where people who pay have easier access to expensive kits in the garage that give them equipment that does not normally unlock until 3 ranks above. Remember, even tho all the kits are available in the shop, you can still buy kits in the garage, for crystals, not real currency. 

 

so yes, if you dont buy, you have to be a little less reckless with your crystals, and save them. 

 

In reality the only things buyers have an advantage over non buyers in is a bigger arsenal in their garages, but none of it is plain out better or a higher modification that you dont also have access to. 

 

I personally, have never bought anything until i reached the rank of legend just recently. I have alt accounts that many people accuse of being a "buyer account" but i havnt spent a dime on it, im just careful with the garage purchases i make.

 

in conclusion, tanki is not P2W, you're just bad at saving and spending your crystals wisely. 

[Total_SkiIl 1,983]

The problems of TO [Part 3: this game is completely P2W, and devs keep doing bad updates that ALWAYS favour P2W players]

Please, just check these profiles: @Cookie, @Total.Skill and @The.Nooba.

 

Have fun with the realisation, that some players are better than you at saving crystals + supplies.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Total_SkiIl

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Nice one, but part 3 will discuss game performance and how TX killed TO. (but not the way you think)

And part 4 will be a "where do we go from here" kind of thing.

I’m curious about your views on TX. Prevailing wisdom seems to be that TX is a failure, so I’m struggling to get on board with the ‘TX killed TO’ theory unless you are going to simply recount the years Alterniva starved TO while developing TX. That WAS a problem, but is not a problem now. Furthermore, I do not believe that the decline in TO players has anything to do with TX.

 

Which leads me to the future of TO - the ‘where do we go from here’. Alterniva has talked a lot about how the decline in players is the result of no marketing for the game. So why aren’t they marketing? Because the game hasn’t been where the company wants it. XT hulls and the Module systems were just plain awkward, but those problems have been addressed. The Flash to HTML conversion seems like the only hold up now. The game needs a graphics update in the worst way, but I don’t see that as a reason not to market your product.

[Guest]

I’m curious about your views on TX. Prevailing wisdom seems to be that TX is a failure, so I’m struggling to get on board with the ‘TX killed TO’ theory unless you are going to simply recount the years Alterniva starved TO while developing TX. That WAS a problem, but is not a problem now. Furthermore, I do not believe that the decline in TO players has anything to do with TX.

 

Which leads me to the future of TO - the ‘where do we go from here’. Alterniva has talked a lot about how the decline in players is the result of no marketing for the game. So why aren’t they marketing? Because the game hasn’t been where the company wants it. XT hulls and the Module systems were just plain awkward, but those problems have been addressed. The Flash to HTML conversion seems like the only hold up now. The game needs a graphics update in the worst way, but I don’t see that as a reason not to market your product.

1. It was yes... but the damage is done, and now the devs are making US pay for their mistakes. See all the buyer-friendly updates? Most of that money is most likely is going to TX. 

 

2. I'm suspecting the only reason their holding off of advertising is Overdrives, which were supposed to be released in july, but got delayed by drones.  :angry:

[austen_pierce 1,948]

1. It was yes... but the damage is done, and now the devs are making US pay for their mistakes. See all the buyer-friendly updates? Most of that money is most likely is going to TX.

 

2. I'm suspecting the only reason their holding off of advertising is Overdrives, which were supposed to be released in july, but got delayed by drones. :angry:

I was the first to predict that XT Skins would be Shop-only, so, yes, I definitely see the buyer-related updates. Obviously, I can’t see where the money is going, but seriously doubt it is mostly going to TX.

 

Regarding Overdrives, I honestly think the designers backed themselves into a corner with the hull-based overdrives. MM battles, and now the implementation and usage of the Driver drone have evolved based on the activation of all supplies, which in the future state will only apply to Dictator. That future state will make MM battles VERY different as some players scramble to adapt to their new overdrive function while others try Dictator in order to keep their Omni-drug powers. My guess is that Designers know this and are understandably cagey about pulling the trigger on such a disruptive change to their beloved MM battles. That change also moves MM battles a bit away from the supplies-centric approach resulting from the current Overdrive implementation. That’s a different direction than Drones, Mission Rewards, Containers, Nuclear Supply, etc, all of which revolve around the 5 traditional supplies. Personally, I would love to see the game become more diverse than those supplies, but I’m not seeing that in any of the recent updates, which is why I think Hull Overdrives are a problematic change for the Designers.

[Total_SkiIl 1,983]

1. It was yes... but the damage is done, and now the devs are making US pay for their mistakes. See all the buyer-friendly updates? Most of that money is most likely is going to TX. 

 

 

XTs don't give you 10000000000 extra damage, if you forgot.

 

 

Not trying to hate on anyone, just hating on the theory that says TO is p2w

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Total_SkiIl

[Guest]

Mismatch....

 

MM put an m0 mult on my team and 2 hardcore druggers on the other.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Guest

[SplashGun 22]

M2 viking twins. If I had a good team (and didn't only have 5 repairs xD) I'd have a good chance against him. That said, I don't know if he/she was m3 because of the new update.

I checked your profile.  You have quite many different turrets/hulls in your garage at relatively low rank.  In order to give better resistance to enemy  it might have been better to first only to have one hull/turret combo and keep MU'ing it and only later expanding your garage with new turrets or hulls.   For example at your rank I only had wasp+thunder (very versatile), then later got rail, then hunter, then rail 100k alt from sales and later isida.  Now I have them all M2+10MU except isida (M2+8).   I did similar mistakes with my first accounts before coming to my senses.

Edited August 31, 2018 by SplashGun

[BlackEliteEnemy2 250]

For anyone who says this game is a p2w game: on my lower ranked account tere5, I participated in many turns during the war and was able to collect a huge stream of crystals. Now I have a m1 thunder at material sergeant. All this was done without buying. Tere7 is another one on my non bought accounts which has been successful thanks to mission chains.

And those who register after war?

[Guest]

I checked your profile.  You have quite many different turrets/hulls in your garage at relatively low rank.  In order to give better resistance to enemy  it might have been better to first only to have one hull/turret combo and keep MU'ing it and only later expanding your garage with new turrets or hulls.   For example at your rank I only had wasp+thunder (very versatile), then later got rail, then hunter, then rail 100k alt from sales and later isida.  Now I have them all M2+10MU except isida (M2+8).   I did similar mistakes with my first accounts before coming to my senses.

That was my mistake in the low ranks. :P Now, I'm just upgrading my Wasp and Titan (both 8/10, almost m2)

[Potdindy 866]

That was my mistake in the low ranks. :P Now, I'm just upgrading my Wasp and Titan (both 8/10, almost m2)

Me too...I upgraded a lot of stuff and never bought kits so I always got stuff late and much more expensively than others

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Me too...I upgraded a lot of stuff and never bought kits so I always got stuff late and much more expensively than others

But are kits a mistake? I certainly think they are the wrong choice for most players, but IF YOU

-catch a kit at its unlock rank AND

-choose a kit which suits your style of play AND

-has a useful module to you AND

-has a paint you would actually consider wearing in a lot of battles AND

-you can afford it with crystals to spare for MUs

 

THEN - you have not made a mistake but have given yourself an advantage through quite a number of rank ups.

[Guest]

Another matchfail. Buyers on one team, noobs on the other.
MF has solved NOTHING! I still fight in blowouts like I did in the warrant officer ranks!


WHAT??!?!??! :angry:


Part 3 coming soon...
 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Guest
posts merged

[ByeByeBye 1,747]

   

   In part one, I covered the Pay to win aspect of supplies and also briefly covered the flow of battle. Today, I will delve into what TO battles have become, another game balance issue, and some inherent issues with MM. Without further adieu, let's dive into the nitty gritty.

 

     Before we take a look at the flow of battles, let's go to the garage and talk about Micro Upgrades. At first glance, these appear to be helpful, upgrading your gear bit by bit so you can remain competitive. In reality... they are one of the absolute WORST thing in the low-mid ranks, with - being hit the hardest by these game-breaking upgrades. But what makes them bad and so game-breaking for low to mid ranks? My answer? Kits. These kits create a massive unbalance for mostly any rank, simply because someone can buy an m2 kit and Micro Upgrade it to m3 when that player hasn't even unlocked the m2 yet!

 

     However, there is a solution to this train wreck. I admit, this will be a hard pill to swallow for all the Road to Legend youtoubers out there, but nonetheless a solution. Here it goes: Micro upgrades can only be preformed when you have reached the unlock rank of the item! This solution makes players who don't have enough crystals to buy kits (like me) still competitive with those who bought one but at the same time makes a the kit purchaser still have an advantage. Essentially, I'm decreasing the OP-ness gap while buyers still have an advantage. For those that are purchasing m3 kits at Brigadier and want to upgrade to m4, let me tell you the hard truth: m4s only offer a 12% advantage for a ridiculous price! It’s not worth upgrading to m4 at that rank!

 

 

     Enough about kits, let's look at battles themselves. Most, if not all of them, are no-strategy drugfests as I explained in part one of this series. Even some of the maps are less tactical than they used to be, with Sollamisk being the most noticeable. In the old Solamisk, there were passages on both sides that encouraged sneak attacks by both sides. When the devs removed those, it became a drugging crapfest. High skill combos, like Smoky/Wasp have been ditched because that style of play simply isn't possible anymore because those places have been removed, making them weak prey to heaver hulls with more drugs at their expense. In addition, there's not Attacker/defender division anymore because the reason is simple: TO favors attacking more than being a defender. Without this division of attackers and defenders, battles just become one big nonstrategic fight with each tanker doing their own thing.

 

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

 

 

     Now to Matchmaking. We were promised with a system that would mostly evenly balance battles, but we got a mess that sends us to battles with less than two minutes remaining. Also, what balance were the devs talking about? The other day I got sent to an Industrial Zone ASL battle that was m1 versus high tier m2s. (there might might have been an m3 there as well but I wasn't too sure.) Is this "balanced"? Yes, I have had some good experiences with MM but it just feels like that the patch was simply a band-aid on top of a stack of band-aids. Do these "band-aids" help anything? Not really, they only cover up the problem when in reality you need to slip over all the other band-aids and fix the issue directly. For the record, there were some good ideas/initiatives by the devs/players out there that could have solved many of the game’s issues. (Like Kick 2, but the post has long been closed sadly. :() And 10 minute battle times aren't helping the situation either.

 

     Many of you in the crowd are agreeing and nodding their heads and saying “Yes, this is why is play Pro battles only.” Let me tell you guys why custom battles aren’t really that better. Why? There’s no variety! Sandbox, Island, Hill, Polygon CP and Parkour battles dominate the battle list! If you are lucky enough to play during peak times, you might see some packed Berlin drug battles or some Wave CTFs at the bottom of the list, but that’s about it. Do people LIKE only having the same, boring maps in the battle list? Clearly, these brainless morons do! The devs should, in fact, remove all the maps from the game except for the aforementioned ones. Let’s see how the playerbase would feel about that! Another con of Pro battles is that, you can’t complete all-important missions in there, which are the only lifeline for free players.

---

If you haven't read it, here is part one:

The problems of TO [Part 1: The gameplay] 

 

Wow, what a great write up!  Thank you for taking the time and effort to do post this. Many of your points are spot-on.

 

My main comment is kind of a sad one though.  While problems with TO are obvious and completely annoying, we reinforce the poor decisions of the devs every time we log in.  We vote "It's OK with me..continue your onslaught" with every log in.  The only effective criticism of the devs direction for Tanki is to stop playing.  I don't want to stop playing because I still like the game even though it is only a shadow of what it once was.  I think many players probably feel the same way.  We hate the crap the devs do and have done to the game, but the only choice is to grind your teeth and continue playing. 

 

When MM started, I predicted 18,000 to 20,000 players at peak times by Mid-August.  My prediction was wrong. Part of the reason that hasn't happened is all the events and promotions Tanki has been having; The War especially gave TO a big boost in player numbers.  And it seems that the players that got drawn in by the special promotions have come to terms with MM even though they may not like it.  While player numbers are static, the devs will never re-think their poor decisions because, based on numbers, they aren't poor decisions.

 

Another way to vote is by sending in cash.  I would NEVER send Tanki any money...why is that you ask?  You never know when your purchase will become worthless because of some update.  I want what I pay for...period.  Unfortunately, I have a sick feeling that Tanki's incessant push for more revenue is probably working and I subjectively feel that players are shoveling in more money now than ever.  If this is true, there is no possible hope for real improvement in the game.

[Guest]

Wow, what a great write up!  Thank you for taking the time and effort to do post this. Many of your points are spot-on.

 

My main comment is kind of a sad one though.  While problems with TO are obvious and completely annoying, we reinforce the poor decisions of the devs every time we log in.  We vote "It's OK with me..continue your onslaught" with every log in.  The only effective criticism of the devs direction for Tanki is to stop playing.  I don't want to stop playing because I still like the game even though it is only a shadow of what it once was.  I think many players probably feel the same way.  We hate the crap the devs do and have done to the game, but the only choice is to grind your teeth and continue playing. 

 

When MM started, I predicted 18,000 to 20,000 players at peak times by Mid-August.  My prediction was wrong. Part of the reason that hasn't happened is all the events and promotions Tanki has been having; The War especially gave TO a big boost in player numbers.  And it seems that the players that got drawn in by the special promotions have come to terms with MM even though they may not like it.  While player numbers are static, the devs will never re-think their poor decisions because, based on numbers, they aren't poor decisions.

 

Another way to vote is by sending in cash.  I would NEVER send Tanki any money...why is that you ask?  You never know when your purchase will become worthless because of some update.  I want what I pay for...period.  Unfortunately, I have a sick feeling that Tanki's incessant push for more revenue is probably working and I subjectively feel that players are shoveling in more money now than ever.  If this is true, there is no possible hope for real improvement in the game.

EXACTLY! We are voting with our wallets, not our minds.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

EXACTLY! We are voting with our wallets, not our minds.

Tanki devs like wallets, there is money inside them xD (joke)