valid Make Freeze's Freezing Upgradable

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Freeze is junk again now that they nerrfed it to death. Leave it alone.

Freeze is not junk, it just gets killed by recently buffed Fire.

[PROTECT_ISIDAS 9]

???

 

Have you ever seen alternate accounts dominating lower ranked players who can't even turn their own turret because they play freeze? And, exactly, you proved my point, you don't see 25% freeze protection down at Sergeant rank, so, naturally, taking 75% of freezing effect will not overnerf it at all.

You really don't know much about the lower ranks do you?  There is no 25% freeze protection at M0 because it doesn't exist in the game yet. you can't buy 26% protection until M2.  You can get up to 15% at M0 but must MU up to 10 and you can get 25% with M1 but it needs to be fully MUed to 10/10.  It starts off at 10% with M0, then 15% with M1, then 25% with M2.  Very few people can afford to MU protection to 25% for anything much less Freeze.  Fire is the low rak nemisis, not Freeze.   Your comfortable opinions need to be backed up with fact. 

 

Why the bloody hell should we give freeze more stopping power when all the hull's speeds are at around 4? People who don't play Freeze are going to rage quit because it would be too impossible to counter. The game NEEDS NEW PLAYERS, not more alternate accounts. These new players will never develop enough skill at m0 and m1 ranks to be able to effectively counter freeze. You just do not read.  I never said buff it I said LEAVE IT ALONE.  Also new players are not going to join Tanki because of any turret, hull, alteration, buff, nerf, whatever.  Tanki advertising will do that.  How foolish a statement you make.  Plus even it nerfing or buffing one turret did generate new players (forehead slap), why is Freeze the big bd turret, you honestly think there are more freeze than Thunder or smoky?  Get real.  if you ever played in lower ranks you would see there are easily 5 Firebird to every Freeze, maybe even 10.  Why don;t you want to nerf Firebird at the lower ranks?

 

Do you understand how upgrading turrets/hulls work? If the upgrade is more expensive in its modification class, you will need more of an upgrade, likewise, the cheaper it is compared to its modification class, the less of an upgrade you need. So naturally, the upgrades to m1 and m3 will be larger than the upgrades to m2. I know you certainly don't understand how the lower ranks work based on your post.  Do't you realize that income for lower ranks is less than upper ranks?  The ratio works out to about the same between M0 and M3 I don't understand why you believe that M0, M1, and M2 are the same. Why is m3 so special?  What are you talking about?  This is completely non-sequitur.  When did I ever say that M0, M1, and M2 are the same.  You are just fabricating weird stuff out of your imagination.

 

You also do not have a clue how MUing to M4 does. If you knew how they worked, you would know that an upgrade to M4 would be the smallest upgrade due to the MUing nerf to create more balance between Legends and Marshal-Generalissimo players (basically M3s could still stand a chane against M4s). This way, it makes absolutely no sense or logic to give another 10% at M4. 

 

Anyways, if there is an upgrade of freezing from M3 to M4, that means you are implying that Freezing will always be upgradable. However, as shown from your M0, M1, and M2 percentages, Freezing stays the same. That makes absolutely no sense.  You are correct, what you just wrote makes absolutely no sense.

 

You are on some sort of lost planet and you are the one making no sense.  I am not even going to try to answer your nonsense.  You sound rational, but what you write is actually gobbletygook

... 

 

I'm creating more of a balance between alternate accounts and newbie accounts. Alternate accounts at lower ranks almost always take Freeze because they can easily freeze circle everyone on the map since newbies won't have enough skill to counter it. 

 

 

I will not bother to answer any more of your inane prattle, there is no point in trying to use any kind of logic with someone who burbbles about stuff like this.

The bottom line is just leave Freeze alone. It doesn't need a buff or a nerf in the lower ranks.  I have no experience in M3/M4 so my opinion is irrelevant.  Although after this interchange between us, I would question the validity of anything you said about M3/M4 based on the erroneous nature of what you say about M0, M1 and M2.

Edited August 31, 2018 by PROTECT_ISIDAS

[Guest]

The bottom line is just leave Freeze alone. It doesn't need a buff or a nerf in the lower ranks.  I have no experience in M3/M4 so my opinion is irrelevant.  Although after this interchange between us, I would question the validity of anything you said about M3/M4 based on the erroneous nature of what you say about M0, M1 and M2.

You are refusing to answer my points directly because you are so stubborn on changing your mind.

 

I know there is no 25% freeze protection. That's why it's OK to nerf freezing at m0 so it's only 75% of the effectiveness right now. Anyways, at my rank, I've actually seen protection above 15%. At 25%, it's still viable, maybe not as effective, but viable. 

 

Did I ever imply that you meant to buff freeze? i'm saying it is a problem RIGHT NOW. New players may join TO but once they get overpowered by many freezes at one point, they will LEAVE. Deflecting my argument saying that other turrets need a nerf is just foolish. Go to another idea/suggestion thread if you want to nerf Thunder or Firebird (which absolutely do need a serious nerf). 

 

Your comprehension skills are making it rather hard for me. I'm caring the m1 and m3 modifications' prices and unlock rank with the other turrets' m1 and m3 modifications' prices and unlock ranks. Clearly, M1 and M3 Freeze are the more expensive turrets in their tier, therefore they will have a larger upgrade (M1 got a huge boost from M0, M3 got a huge boost from M2). Likewise, M2 Freeze is cheaper and unlocked first, therefore they will have the smaller upgrade (M2's boost from M1 is much smaller). However, M4 Freeze's upgrade must be small because the developers made it so that M4s will not be able to easily overpower M3s and cause a huge imbalance at higher ranks in the game. 

 

You literally made in your post that M0, M1, and M2 Freezing effects stayed the same. Now, you're going to deny that you treat them the same? Get real. Before accusing me of anything, look at yourself first.

 

What your suggestion is makes no sense, is what I'm saying. You are allowing me to micro-upgrade my Freeze but every MU towards m0, m1, and m2 will give me a solid 0% towards the freezing rate until M3. There is nothing so special about M3s and M4s that will allow them to have a more powerful effect over the M2 and below besides increased damage, decreased reload speed, turret speed, and range. 

 

 

You admit yourself that you do not understand how m3s and m4s work well enough to give an opinion on that. Based on your rank and the perception of balance in the game, it is trivial that you do not understand this game well enough (which is also obvious due to your low rank) to be able to predict an accurate balance change. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by sensei_tanker

[r_Sapphire8 17]

The bottom line is just leave Freeze alone. It doesn't need a buff or a nerf in the lower ranks.  I have no experience in M3/M4 so my opinion is irrelevant.  Although after this interchange between us, I would question the validity of anything you said about M3/M4 based on the erroneous nature of what you say about M0, M1 and M2.

I believe that sensei is correct with his idea. 

[PROTECT_ISIDAS 9]

 

You are refusing to answer my points directly because you are so stubborn on changing your mind.

 

I know there is no 25% freeze protection. That's why it's OK to nerf freezing at m0 so it's only 75% of the effectiveness right now. Anyways, at my rank, I've actually seen protection above 15%. At 25%, it's still viable, maybe not as effective, but viable. 

 

Did I ever imply that you meant to buff freeze? i'm saying it is a problem RIGHT NOW. New players may join TO but once they get overpowered by many freezes at one point, they will LEAVE. Deflecting my argument saying that other turrets need a nerf is just foolish. Go to another idea/suggestion thread if you want to nerf Thunder or Firebird (which absolutely do need a serious nerf). 

 

Your comprehension skills are making it rather hard for me. I'm caring the m1 and m3 modifications' prices and unlock rank with the other turrets' m1 and m3 modifications' prices and unlock ranks. Clearly, M1 and M3 Freeze are the more expensive turrets in their tier, therefore they will have a larger upgrade (M1 got a huge boost from M0, M3 got a huge boost from M2). Likewise, M2 Freeze is cheaper and unlocked first, therefore they will have the smaller upgrade (M2's boost from M1 is much smaller). However, M4 Freeze's upgrade must be small because the developers made it so that M4s will not be able to easily overpower M3s and cause a huge imbalance at higher ranks in the game. 

 

You literally made in your post that M0, M1, and M2 Freezing effects stayed the same. Now, you're going to deny that you treat them the same? Get real. Before accusing me of anything, look at yourself first.

 

What your suggestion is makes no sense, is what I'm saying. You are allowing me to micro-upgrade my Freeze but every MU towards m0, m1, and m2 will give me a solid 0% towards the freezing rate until M3. There is nothing so special about M3s and M4s that will allow them to have a more powerful effect over the M2 and below besides increased damage, decreased reload speed, turret speed, and range. 

 

 

You admit yourself that you do not understand how m3s and m4s work well enough to give an opinion on that. Based on your rank and the perception of balance in the game, it is trivial that you do not understand this game well enough (which is also obvious due to your low rank) to be able to predict an accurate balance change. 

 

You keep saying I said things I never said...it's all there for anyone to read.  I won't bother to answer you anymore.

 

If anyone is interested here is my opinion.  Freeze at M0, M1, and M2 should not be nerfed or buffed.  Freeze is fine the way it is now.  Freeze is currently far from the most dangerous or OP turret in these lower ranks.  I reiterate to be clear:

 

Freeze M0, no buff no nerf...leave it alone

Freeze M1, no buff no nerf...leave it alone

Freeze M2, no buff no nerf...leave it alone

Edited August 31, 2018 by PROTECT_ISIDAS

[PROTECT_ISIDAS 9]

I believe that sensei is correct with his idea. 

He may very well be correct regarding the M3-M4 arena and I have never said otherwise.  I only have some doubts because of the way he relates to M0, M1, and M2

[railguniz4noobz 2,394]

I have never used m0 or m1 freeze seriously, but even at m2 things start getting hard to freeze. I think the changes are fair considering m0s are super slow at accelerating and it was hell playing in the low ranks against them after the buff.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

He may very well be correct regarding the M3-M4 arena and I have never said otherwise.  I only have some doubts because of the way he relates to M0, M1, and M2

Just answer this question. How does it make sense that firebird special ability is an upgradeable parameter, but not freeze?

 

If freeze freeze effect can't have an upgradeable parameter, then why should firebirds burn effect get it?

[PROTECT_ISIDAS 9]

Just answer this question. How does it make sense that firebird special ability is an upgradeable parameter, but not freeze?

 

If freeze freeze effect can't have an upgradeable parameter, then why should firebirds burn effect get it?

It would be fine to upgrade the freezing effect in the higher ranks.  i have never said otherwise.  What I have said over and over is don't downgrade it's effects in the lower ranks, keep it as it is now or the turret will become useless.  I don't see why this is so hard to understand.  I can't illustrate it any more clearly.

 

M0 Freeze freezing quotient....leave it alone, don't nerf it just so it can be MUed

M1 Freeze freezing quotient....leave it alone, don't nerf it just so it can be MUed

M2 Freeze freezing quotient....leave it alone, don't nerf it just so it can be MUed

M3 Freeze freezing quotient....buff it as an MU to M4, fine, if players and the devs think this is a good thing...fine!

 

Your point is to give Freeze an up-gradable parameter.  How do you do that without either making it a beast again and OP when it is MUed or too weak to be viable before it is MUed? 

 

To give Freeze an up-gradable parameter you either need to reduce it's effectiveness like what's his name suggests or start from where it is now and improve the freeze effect as it is MUed higher.  My point is NOT to nerf it just so it can be MUed...leave it alone in M0, M1, and M2 it is fine as is and doesn't need to be buffed or nerfed.

[r_Sapphire8 17]

It would be fine to upgrade the freezing effect in the higher ranks.  i have never said otherwise.  What I have said over and over is don't downgrade it's effects in the lower ranks, keep it as it is now or the turret will become useless.  I don't see why this is so hard to understand.  I can't illustrate it any more clearly.

 

M0 Freeze freezing quotient....leave it alone, don't nerf it just so it can be MUed

M1 Freeze freezing quotient....leave it alone, don't nerf it just so it can be MUed

M2 Freeze freezing quotient....leave it alone, don't nerf it just so it can be MUed

M3 Freeze freezing quotient....buff it as an MU to M4, fine, if players and the devs think this is a good thing...fine!

 

Your point is to give Freeze an up-gradable parameter.  How do you do that without either making it a beast again and OP when it is MUed or too weak to be viable before it is MUed? 

 

To give Freeze an up-gradable parameter you either need to reduce it's effectiveness like what's his name suggests or start from where it is now and improve the freeze effect as it is MUed higher.  My point is NOT to nerf it just so it can be MUed...leave it alone in M0, M1, and M2 it is fine as is and doesn't need to be buffed or nerfed.

@sensei_tanker has already said that the turret needs a nerf at the lower rank, so this system is made to make the game balanced at all ranks. Alternate accounts are just killing newbies, causing them to lose interest in the game, because they freeze-circle every newbie. That's why there is a 25% nerf on freezing at m0. Unlike you, @sensei_tanker has seen protections above 15% before, and in his own experience, he has grinded at least 1 million EXP for Freeze (most of it happened before the profile started logging) and he knows that freeze players can survive with 25% protection modules against freezing. 

[r_Sapphire8 17]

The bottom line is just leave Freeze alone. It doesn't need a buff or a nerf in the lower ranks. I have no experience in M3/M4 so my opinion is irrelevant. Although after this interchange between us, I would question the validity of anything you said about M3/M4 based on the erroneous nature of what you say about M0, M1 and M2.

Are you sure?

 

I joined this DM with 4 minutes left:

 

The bottom line is just leave Freeze alone. It doesn't need a buff or a nerf in the lower ranks. I have no experience in M3/M4 so my opinion is irrelevant. Although after this interchange between us, I would question the validity of anything you said about M3/M4 based on the erroneous nature of what you say about M0, M1 and M2.

[r_Sapphire8 17]

The bottom line is just leave Freeze alone. It doesn't need a buff or a nerf in the lower ranks.  I have no experience in M3/M4 so my opinion is irrelevant.  Although after this interchange between us, I would question the validity of anything you said about M3/M4 based on the erroneous nature of what you say about M0, M1 and M2.

[PROTECT_ISIDAS 9]

 

 

 

 

...and I can do exactly the same thing with Isida...and Firebird...and Thunder...and Smoky...and Rico...and even Freeze. 

 

It is wonderful that you are a good player, Mazeltov!

Edited September 1, 2018 by PROTECT_ISIDAS

[r_Sapphire8 17]

...and I can do exactly the same thing with Isida...and Firebird...and Thunder...and Smoky...and Rico...and even Freeze. 

 

It is wonderful that you are a good player, Mazeltov!

 The thing is that this is my first time playing. You already have experience in the game. No newbie should be able to do that. I couldn't do it with firebird. Or isida. 

 

It appears to me that you don't even use Freeze. Whereas, sensei and I, we both use Freeze and both agree that newbies are overpowered by pros with Freeze most effectively. 

 

No one would be able to put up a K/D that high with any other turret, despite reaching 50 kills. 

 

Also, what if I told you that M3 Freeze's damage 3 months ago is the same as M1 Freeze's damage right now. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by r_Sapphire8

[r_Sapphire8 17]

...and I can do exactly the same thing with Isida...and Firebird...and Thunder...and Smoky...and Rico...and even Freeze. 

 

It is wonderful that you are a good player, Mazeltov!

Do you have any proof or evidence that would actually support your claim. Simply believing and stating "Freeze is UP" doesn't really help. 

[Guest]

Freeze is not junk, it just gets killed by recently buffed Fire.

Which makes it junk. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Which makes it junk.

No, it makes it balanced. It is much better than before buff and that little nerf after it. If Freeze was able to kill Fire in 1v1 every time, it would be OP. Fire sometimes kills Freeze which makes Freeze balanced.

 

Damage before buff- 350-700 (UP)

Damage after buff- 500-1000 (good)

Damage after nerf- 450-900 (good)

 

Fire was UP before buff (except M2 alt), now it is balanced. Short range turret balance is solved , medium and long range turrets are waiting...

[Guest]

No, it makes it balanced. It is much better than before buff and that little nerf after it. If Freeze was able to kill Fire in 1v1 every time, it would be OP. Fire sometimes kills Freeze which makes Freeze balanced.

 

Damage before buff- 350-700 (UP)

Damage after buff- 500-1000 (good)

Damage after nerf- 450-900 (good)

 

Fire was UP before buff (except M2 alt), now it is balanced. Short range turret balance is solved , medium and long range turrets are waiting...

It used to be that Freeze countered Fire and then Fire's afterburn killed Freeze no matter what. Right now it's Fire kills Freeze while sustaining minimal damage. 

[thesquarerootof2 165]

It used to be that Freeze countered Fire and then Fire's afterburn killed Freeze no matter what. Right now it's Fire kills Freeze while sustaining minimal damage. 

That's good tbh because of how Freeze can backstab and lock down the enemy, thus taking minimal damage in return. This is something Firebird can't do. 

[Guest]

That's good tbh because of how Freeze can backstab and lock down the enemy, thus taking minimal damage in return. This is something Firebird can't do. 

That's debatable. Freeze can only backstab now, which isn't very helpful because the enemies are usually on the other side of the map. Firebird right now will basically get the guaranteed kill while sustaining minimal damage due to the intense burning, it doesn't require a specific area where you attack. 

 

I think comparing Freeze's Freezing and Firebird's Burning is very hard and it's like comparing apples to oranges

[Guest]

Now M0 Firebird's burning completely outclasses M4 Freeze's freezing. Please make this happen!