Designers Obsession with Supplies

[Guest]

There was a time where teams could hold down their end of a map for minutes without a single breach (given, it was the best of the best, and it happened rarely, but I was in battles like that and saw it myself). Items such as flash bang, smoke, etc, would all get in the way of forward, direct movement towards an objective, and even now, I laugh. I had said sometime time ago that the game was degenerating into some sort of armored rugby match, and low and behold, they even introduced Rugby as a gameplay model. The game is made for the lowest common denominator of player. Start tank, kill and blow up stuff, rinse, repeat. Hell, they added mouse controls because the stats said new players came and couldn't figure out how to use the turret buttons. If you can't read simple instructions and use three keys, your not really anyone who should be playing games, you need to go back to school because you have much bigger problems, but alas, they were catered to.

Other than the mouse controls part I agree with everything you said. Edited August 31, 2018 by Guest

[u812ic 1,629]

Well..... if you think about it:

-Gold Box isn’t a new supply, rather a bundle of crystals which are already in the game

-Batteries aren’t a new supply, they only give access to slight improvements to the usage of the 1-5 Supplies.

-Nuclear Energy is not a new supply, it merely activated overdrive, which again does nothing beyond the existing 1-5 supplies.

 

Why can’t there be a supply which does something *gasp* DIFFERENT? Invisibility. Detonation. Shot Reflection. Range Increase. There are endless possibilities.

 

I’ve heard this too but find it really hard to believe. I have literally tens of thousands of supplies in my garage. Even my M2 alts have about 2k of each, okay more like 1k for RKs. Point is, if I’m swimming in them, how can anyone need to buy with real money?

 

.

That's my point in my previous post. The features were not specifically meant for the buyers, but rather for the newbys and non-buyers to get a good supply of.....well.....supplies. Just because you're swimming in them doesn't mean everyone else is. Do you do missions? Stop doing them and your supplies will go down. Do you go after containers? Stop and your supplies will go down. Whatever you are doing to keep your supplies up, stop doing it and your supplies will go down. Get the message? Then after your supplies are used up, come back here and repost this topic. Now get out there and drug like an addict (using your supplies, not real world drugs). 

[InfamatiEtObliterati 182]

I get your point. Devs are constantly bringing up new ways to use the same old supplies, and it could get frustrating to some. However, they don't really have many tricks up their sleeves. I think we can all agree that whatever balance we have now is extremely fragile, and the slightest change could tear it down, as we've seen from the Freeze fiasco couple of weeks ago.

 

To come up with a truly new concept can present itself to be unbelievably difficult. It can't be too effective as to gain superiority amongst other game features but at the same time, it can't be too weak that no one would bother to use it. Also, there's the tedious checking for glitches in case this new feature would contravene with other game mechanics.

 

Devs have to constantly provide new updates to keep the higher ranks interested, otherwise, things would get boring for them. So they bring up these supply-related updates 'cause they're not highly consequential and relatively easy to come by (by their standards :ph34r:)

[MLG_Keemstar 176]

I get your point. Devs are constantly bringing up new ways to use the same old supplies, and it could get frustrating to some. However, they don't really have many tricks up their sleeves. I think we can all agree that whatever balance we have now is extremely fragile, and the slightest change could tear it down, as we've seen from the Freeze fiasco couple of weeks ago.

 

To come up with a truly new concept can present itself to be unbelievably difficult. It can't be too effective as to gain superiority amongst other game features but at the same time, it can't be too weak that no one would bother to use it. Also, there's the tedious checking for glitches in case this new feature would contravene with other game mechanics.

 

Devs have to constantly provide new updates to keep the higher ranks interested, otherwise, things would get boring for them. So they bring up these supply-related updates 'cause they're not highly consequential and relatively easy to come by (by their standards :ph34r:)

So basically, letting your child eat junk food instead of feeding them healthy food because your afraid of a temper tantrum? Sounds like bad parenting. There really is no such thing as a backfire due to the fact Tanki lost over 75% of its population due to these outrageous updates. They might as well try anything, or everything because they have nothing to lose

Edited August 31, 2018 by MLG_Keemstar

[CabbageRoll 3,018]

-Gold Box isn’t a new supply, rather a bundle of crystals which are already in the game

-Batteries aren’t a new supply, they only give access to slight improvements to the usage of the 1-5 Supplies.

-Nuclear Energy is not a new supply, it merely activated overdrive, which again does nothing beyond the existing 1-5 supplies.

 

Yes but devs still consider it as totally original and new supply

 

So what is next? Container gold box supply? Totally new and never seen before WOW!

[GorgoBlesk 831]

I had a huge conversation with Hazel a number years ago, here, about Shaft, about sniping, about game mechanics. My point was the game was too in our face for anything resembling armored combat. Sure you had brawls, but one would hope that was the culmination of planning after laying out a path to a base and getting in there for a flag. It shouldn't be easy to get flags, it should be work, and brawls should only serve to destroy everyone, and not be used as the modus operandi for game play. His response I am summarizing here, but it went like this:

 

I hate campers, I hate people who hide and pick people off from afar, if I had my way, shafts would be gone or nerfed to the point of uselessness.

 

The body politic that followed was his. We saw close quarter unit and long range units that all required much more exposure, Hammer and Stryker. Everything is about moving and frenetic action. Again, we descended further into brawls. Then came Magnum and Overdrive. Now we have a situation where a offender can cross a map, heal up, take a flag, Overdrive, battle their way back to a base, and in the time taken, heal up is cooled down again to save them in the last leg of their trip. Supplies, always supplies. Magnums, in terms of innovation, were a great idea, the indirect fire bit, but I've said my peace on that elsewhere, they need to be overhauled or removed, but then, no, and again, convo for a different place. The point about them is they are NOT used as intended, but rather over-sized Thunders that wreck havoc on defenders and force everyone to spawn and scramble to chase after offenders, and what will be the deciding factor if they can rip the flag from the clutches of the enemy? Supplies. A brawl to the enemy base, again, always a brawl.

 

There was a time where teams could hold down their end of a map for minutes without a single breach (given, it was the best of the best, and it happened rarely, but I was in battles like that and saw it myself). I had said some time ago that the game was degenerating into some sort of armored rugby match, and low and behold, they even introduced Rugby as a gameplay model. Start tank, kill and blow up stuff, rinse, repeat.

 

Point is, don't hold your breath for lots of cool stuff that will transform gameplay in any fashion that will change the standard dynamic of spawn, drug, drive forward, blow stuff up, come back with something or continue blowing stuff up. Strategy, tactics, use of terrain (with the exception of Ledgy Online), and clever gameplay is not something likely to be seen in the future.

I completely agree. Hazel nerfed Shaft arcade shots and buffed Thunder reload to reward long range players for noobish brawling. Shaft, Rail and Striker are completely useless and they just can not defend the base effectively. He also refuses to nerf Thunder and Magnum damage although it is obvious that these 2 turrets are OP.

 

Firebird buff was also quite weird. It rewards players just for mindless spraying fire all over the place instead of focusing on 1 enemy.

 

Twins impact force is ideal for knocking Ricochets. Why? Because Rico needs more skill than Twins. Devs reward Twins for rushing against Rico. Funny, right?

Edited September 1, 2018 by GorgoBlesk

[InfamatiEtObliterati 182]

So basically, letting your child eat junk food instead of feeding them healthy food because your afraid of a temper tantrum? Sounds like bad parenting. There really is no such thing as a backfire due to the fact Tanki lost over 75% of its population due to these outrageous updates. They might as well try anything, or everything because they have nothing to lose

Honestly, I'm clueless as to how you reached your conclusion from what I said. My reply was about how difficult things could get and how they might affect the game's balance. You might want to have a second look at what I said and try to come up with a reply that's actually relevant and sensible (to what I said).

Edited September 1, 2018 by InfamatiEtObliterati

[MLG_Keemstar 176]

Honestly, I'm clueless as to how you reached your conclusion from what I said. My reply was about how difficult things could get and how they might affect the game's balance. You might want to have a second look at what I said and try to come up with a reply that's actually relevant and sensible (to what I said).

I created a scenario that represents developers as bad decision makers. Developers are either making the game worse or keeping things that need a fix as it is. They decide to implement certain things like "new supplies"  that are actually related to initial updates. None of their "updates" make the game better and trying something new won't be a fail because of how trash everything is already. This is mostly prior to your last sentence on how developers are creating updates that revolve around supplies because its not much of a risk, or as you stated "not highly consequential"

Edited September 1, 2018 by MLG_Keemstar

[InfamatiEtObliterati 182]

I created a scenario that represents developers as bad decision makers. Developers are either making the game worse or keeping things that need a fix as it is. They decide to implement certain things like "new supplies"  that are actually related to initial updates. None of their "updates" make the game better and trying something new won't be a fail because of how trash everything is already. This is mostly prior to your last sentence on how developers are creating updates that revolve around supplies because its not much of a risk, or as you stated "not highly consequential"

What I meant by unconsequential was it won't necessarily have a negative influence on the game's balance (hence the Freeze reference). Tanki Online is not a family, it's a business, so all of that family talks are irrelevant simply because in Tanki Online you can continue to feed your child junk food as long as he pays. All these updates are carefully calculated, and if something goes wrong, they fix it (by wrong I mean technically wrong not "players don't like this" wrong)

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Ever heard of parkour wars and stgs?

Yep, what’s your point?

 

Whatever you are doing to keep your supplies up, stop doing it and your supplies will go down. Get the message?

I actually intend to so something along these lines, but have to wait until early 2019.

 

But that’s really not the point. The point was that there is no reason to buy Supplies with real money. I don’t understand how Supplies can be a revenue stream for the company.

 

To come up with a truly new concept can present itself to be unbelievably difficult. It can't be too effective as to gain superiority amongst other game features but at the same time, it can't be too weak that no one would bother to use it. Also, there's the tedious checking for glitches in case this new feature would contravene with other game mechanics.

 

But no problem adding Magum :ph34r:

[MLG_Keemstar 176]

Yep, what’s your point?

They usually take up a large amount of supplies. I'm not saying your wrong though, most of these "updates" aren't really updates just a bunch of subsequent introductions of supplies or other things that have already been in the game

Edited September 1, 2018 by MLG_Keemstar

[InfamatiEtObliterati 182]

But no problem adding Magum :ph34r:

Tell me about it :ph34r:

[MLG_Keemstar 176]

What I meant by unconsequential was it won't necessarily have a negative influence on the game's balance (hence the Freeze reference). Tanki Online is not a family, it's a business, so all of that family talks are irrelevant simply because in Tanki Online you can continue to feed your child junk food as long as he pays. All these updates are carefully calculated, and if something goes wrong, they fix it (by wrong I mean technically wrong not "players don't like this" wrong)

Most updates aren't fixed when they're wrong though. For example, Tanki recently tried to fix MM with GS meaning that it's out of question that there was something wrong with the initial introduction of MM because the developers tried to fix it. Instead, they mess up like they usually do and now MM is still unstable. It takes a lot of work to perfect certain things like MM but that doesn't mean you throw it out there half finished and sometime later try to fix it, ending up with the same problem. 

Edited September 1, 2018 by MLG_Keemstar

[MLG_Keemstar 176]

But no problem adding Magum :ph34r:

Thats Hazel's little toy, thats why it was bought into the game to stay forever

[austen_pierce 1,948]

They usually take up a large amount of supplies.

That’s fair. Honestly, I hadn’t considered Parkour as a means for Tanki to sell supplies. But a lot of players are parkourists, so I respect that.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

His response I am summarizing here, but it went like this:

 

I hate campers, I hate people who hide and pick people off from afar, if I had my way, shafts would be gone or nerfed to the point of uselessness.

If this is true, I love that this came from the man who introduced Magnum into the game.

[MLG_Keemstar 176]

If this is true, I love that this came from the man who introduced Magnum into the game.

It really is phenomenal how stupid people are.

[Showbot 819]

So true, Nothing interesting these days 

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

If this is true, I love that this came from the man who introduced Magnum into the game.

 

IKR?

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

If this is true, I love that this came from the man who introduced Magnum into the game.

magnum isn't really effective in camping in matchmaking battles... better for close range combat. it is only effective at far range against other campers because they don't move around. against mobile targets it's really weak.

 

magnum is like a close range turret with anti camper capabilities. so it makes perfect sense why hazel would design it like that.

[u812ic 1,629]

One thing I like about Magnum, it proposes a challenge for me. Magnum users usually have a weak tank. They think that hiding behind a wall is all they need for protection. I have fairly good protection against a non-drugging Magnum and will seek them out to give them a taste of my lead. If I can't kill Magnum, at least I can keep him occupied for a while and let my teammates make goals, grab flags, etc. It's a tactical maneuver.  

Edited September 4, 2018 by u812ic

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

magnum isn't really effective in camping in matchmaking battles... better for close range combat. it is only effective at far range against other campers because they don't move around. against mobile targets it's really weak.

 

magnum is like a close range turret with anti camper capabilities. so it makes perfect sense why hazel would design it like that.

Wow.  I mean, I don't even know what to make of this post.

 

Where to begin?  Um, er, well, first, ARTILLERY SHOULD NOT BE "better for close range combat".  As for only effective at long range, it's there to pound path in front of the attackers and wipe out the defense at the base.  Artillery is to rain down on enemies, not barrel down roads.  You and I have had plenty of arguments, if I'm not mistaken, thus I won't bother trying to debate this with you.  Point is, the underlined part.

 

You have simply confirmed everything discussed here, not that you would know exactly, or maybe you do, maybe you're best friends with Hazel, but, close range turret with anti camping, um, that sounds a lot like what I said about his statement. He intentionally nerfs long range turrets in favor of brawling gear.  He admitted as much in that he stated he hates the long game, wants people to all drive into each other and knock down drag it out.

 

There is no explaining this away, and back to the topic, hence why little innovation occurs then, everything is focused on the near game, and anything that gets in the way of just shooting is seen as bad.

[splitterpoint 10,986]

There is no explaining this away, and back to the topic, hence why little innovation occurs then, everything is focused on the near game, and anything that gets in the way of just shooting is seen as bad.

Exactly,

 

Overdrives and supplies add to even faster hulls. Short range guns are carried around the map within no time. The new overdrive drop allows for a big pile of drugged up tankers who can move their way in the enemy base, grab flag and be gone. Just like that.. with the touch of a button.

 

There's no hull variety, there's no gameplay variety and there is there's a continuous decrease in strategy.

Everything is folded around the buttons.. pressing 12345 or shift. Those are the game changers. And for what? Everyone is canceling eachothers drugs anyway.

 

I also hate that they even allow PRO battles to be made with supplies and overdrives and microupgrades and supply drops because that's just thinned down the real stock experience.. this is where teams can still hold their own due to teamwork; where every individual has a role on the map depending on the turret and hull. But 80% of the battles have atleast one of these anomalies in the settings which has direct impact on gameplay. I also blame the community for it.. for not stepping up and keep on using supplies outside the point-and-shoot Matchmaking; EDIT: they are literally addicted to the drugs that this game gives them.

Edited September 4, 2018 by splitterpoint

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

magnum is like a close range turret with anti camper capabilities. so it makes perfect sense why hazel would design it like that.

Arguing with you about Magnum is pointless but Hazel has said many things that imply Magnum is designed to be a camper turret.

[u812ic 1,629]

 

I also hate that they even allow PRO battles to be made with supplies and overdrives and microupgrades and supply drops because that's just thinned down the real stock experience.. this is where teams can still hold their own due to teamwork; where every individual has a role on the map depending on the turret and hull. But 80% of the battles have atleast one of these anomalies in the settings which has direct impact on gameplay. I also blame the community for it.. for not stepping up and keep on using supplies outside the point-and-shoot Matchmaking; EDIT: they are literally addicted to the drugs that this game gives them.

Most of the Pro battles I've been in has everything turned off. They aren't hard to find, especially Polygon CP and Pro RGB. Once in a while I see Massacre CP and TDM with everything turned off. Those are the battles I prefer.