Smoky, the new OP turret?

[enri_chill 265]

Autocannon is the most fun!

And as the recipient of it, most frustrating :D  Or perhaps getting frozen in the middle of battle from out of nowhere! :rolleyes:

[wolverine848 13,097]

They are OP. They are the most versatile turrets in Tanki. They are effective at ANY range. Other turrets are not.

 

Rail, Vulcan - bad at close range due to shot delay

 

Striker - bad at long range due to limited rocket speed

 

Shaft - bad at medium range due to 25% arcade shot weak damage

 

Magnum - bad at close range due to huge splash, long range shots depend on luck

Thunder has splash - so you can't say it is OP up close as it will self-damage.

 

"Weak damage" only kicks in beyond minimum damage range. For Shaft m3 that's 65m - which is ~ medium range.

Heck - up to 55m it's within max damage range and that "secondary" attack is pretty much same as smoky.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Thunder has splash - so you can't say it is OP up close as it will self-damage.

 

"Weak damage" only kicks in beyond minimum damage range. For Shaft m3 that's 65m - which is ~ medium range.

Heck - up to 55m it's within max damage range and that "secondary" attack is pretty much same as smoky.

If Thunder player starts to feel that the splash helps the enemies more than himself, he should buy no-splash alt (20000 crystals). Problem solved.

 

65m range on M3 Shaft (arcade shot). That is so bad. M3 Vulcan, Thunder and Smoky have around 120m. I often snipe (and kill) with Smoky FAR beyond its range because it has 50% weak damage.

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Since Smoky and Shaft are stronger, they should remove all bushes now.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Since Smoky and Shaft are stronger, they should remove all bushes now.

Well, it may or may help with the lag a bit. But it's gonna be met with some serious backlash from the players.

[wolverine848 13,097]

If Thunder player starts to feel that the splash helps the enemies more than himself, he should buy no-splash alt (20000 crystals). Problem solved.

 

65m range on M3 Shaft (arcade shot). That is so bad. M3 Vulcan, Thunder and Smoky have around 120m. I often snipe (and kill) with Smoky FAR beyond its range because it has 50% weak damage.

If you are that far away Shaft will just scope you.  No contest.

[N3tralRE 282]

IMO, stock Smoky has been a solid underdog turret.  Not as damaging as Rail or Thunder, besides Critical Hits.  Not as effective at long-range as Rail or Shaft.  Not as fast at firing as Ricochet or Twins.  Not as deadly at close quarters as Firebird or Freeze.  Yet, despite these shortcomings, Smoky's nice damage output, good firing rate, and reasonable range make Smoky a hardy, versatile turret that no enemy should take for granted in medium-long ranged battles. 

 

Then there's the new alterations.  The incendiary and cryo shells are annoying in their own right, but Autocannon takes annoying up to eleven.  With Autocannon, Smoky suddenly becomes a Twins-wannabe, firing rounds at a faster rate to keep rocking enemies' hulls around, annoying them to frustration, and capitalizing on their frustration.  Sure, there are fans of Autocannon for its "fun" factor, but I am adamantly not one of those fans since the "fun" is largely one-sided, regardless of whoever wins or lose. 

 

In other words, Smoky's "OPness" for me is due to the Autocannon alteration getting under players' skins. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

IMO, stock Smoky has been a solid underdog turret.  Not as damaging as Rail or Thunder, besides Critical Hits.  Not as effective at long-range as Rail or Shaft.  Not as fast at firing as Ricochet or Twins.  Not as deadly at close quarters as Firebird or Freeze.  Yet, despite these shortcomings, Smoky's nice damage output, good firing rate, and reasonable range make Smoky a hardy, versatile turret that no enemy should take for granted in medium-long ranged battles. 

 

Then there's the new alterations.  The incendiary and cryo shells are annoying in their own right, but Autocannon takes annoying up to eleven.  With Autocannon, Smoky suddenly becomes a Twins-wannabe, firing rounds at a faster rate to keep rocking enemies' hulls around, annoying them to frustration, and capitalizing on their frustration.  Sure, there are fans of Autocannon for its "fun" factor, but I am adamantly not one of those fans since the "fun" is largely one-sided, regardless of whoever wins or lose. 

 

In other words, Smoky's "OPness" for me is due to the Autocannon alteration getting under players' skins. 

The autocannon does have a -66% nerf to impact... 

 

Can't possibly be as bad a twins impact - which makes light/medium hulls undriveable

[N3tralRE 282]

The autocannon does have a -66% nerf to impact... 

 

Can't possibly be as bad a twins impact - which makes light/medium hulls undriveable

I wish the -66% nerf kept the Autocannon in check, but I'm afraid it ain't so in practice.  Per the official Tanki Wiki:

 

Stock M3+ Twins Impact Force = 160

Stock M3+ Smoky Impact Force = 330

 

Autocannon M3+ Smoky Impact Force = 330 * 2/3 = 220

 

Welp.  Even with Autocannon, Smoky STILL has more impact force than Twins!  Sure, Twins' Stable Plasma slightly bumps up impact force, but only by 10%, not enough to surpass Smoky's impact force.

 

And while we're comparing Twins and Smoky, let's look at their reload speeds!

 

Stock M3+ Twins Reload time = 0.27 seconds

Stock M3+ Smoky Reload time = 1.5 seconds

Autocannon M3+ Smoky Reload time = 0.5 seconds

 

Okay, Twins reloads faster than Autocannon Smoky, but this still doesn't change the fact that being hit by 220 Impact Force rounds every half-second is enough to jostle tanks around to the point of aggravation.  Certainly enough to consistently throw off the aim of anyone facing this ugly alteration.

[HichigoShiiro 4,378]

Smoky has always been OP wdym new

[GorgoBlesk 831]

If you are that far away Shaft will just scope you. No contest.

Thunder and Smoky can annoy the Shaft by knocking its aim and the Shaft eventually misses due to the impact force.

 

Shaft needs to stay without cover for 3 seconds to deal full damage. It can take lots of damage in these 3 seconds.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I wish the -66% nerf kept the Autocannon in check, but I'm afraid it ain't so in practice.  Per the official Tanki Wiki:

 

Stock M3+ Twins Impact Force = 160

Stock M3+ Smoky Impact Force = 330

 

Autocannon M3+ Smoky Impact Force = 330 * 2/3 = 220

 

 

 

Welp.  Even with Autocannon, Smoky STILL has more impact force than Twins!  Sure, Twins' Stable Plasma slightly bumps up impact force, but only by 10%, not enough to surpass Smoky's impact force.

 

And while we're comparing Twins and Smoky, let's look at their reload speeds!

 

Stock M3+ Twins Reload time = 0.27 seconds

Stock M3+ Smoky Reload time = 1.5 seconds

Autocannon M3+ Smoky Reload time = 0.5 seconds

 

Okay, Twins reloads faster than Autocannon Smoky, but this still doesn't change the fact that being hit by 220 Impact Force rounds every half-second is enough to jostle tanks around to the point of aggravation.  Certainly enough to consistently throw off the aim of anyone facing this ugly alteration.

 

 

Pretty sure the stats for Twin are for per barrel... so... 160x2 = 320.  Every 0.27 staggered a wee bit.

 

Thunder and Smoky can annoy the Shaft by knocking its aim and the Shaft eventually misses due to the impact force.

 

Shaft needs to stay without cover for 3 seconds to deal full damage. It can take lots of damage in these 3 seconds.

Smart Shaft users don't sit in open with their laser flashing for 3 seconds.  Most targets are not aware of the shaft until they are hit (and most likely dead)

 

At very long ranges smoky and thunder do not have automatic hits.  Auto-aim only helps with vertical - if the shooter does not have the horizontal correct it will miss.

 

Sure Thunder and smoky are decent at long ranges, but compared to shaft it is a mis-match.  Try it on Highways and see what I mean. Smoky and Thunder can not out-duel Shaft on highways.

[N3tralRE 282]

Pretty sure the stats for Twin are for per barrel... so... 160x2 = 320.  Every 0.27 staggered a wee bit.

Are you saying that every 0.27 seconds, enemies get 320 Impact force from M3+ Twins? 

 

Edit:  I mean, I've never seen Twins' stats that way.  I always thought they were for each individual shot.  So to me, it takes 0.27 seconds for M3+ Twins to fire another shot and that each M3+ Twins shot can deal a maximum of 220 damage. 

 

Anyways, I'm not saying Twins is any less annoying than Autocannon Smoky.  Far from it.  I'm saying Autocannon Smoky for me is the most annoying Smoky iteration thus far. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by N3tralRE

[wolverine848 13,097]

Are you saying that every 0.27 seconds, enemies get 320 Impact force from M3+ Twins? 

 

Edit:  I mean, I've never seen Twins' stats that way.  I always thought they were for each individual shot.  So to me, it takes 0.27 seconds for M3+ Twins to fire another shot and that each M3+ Twins shot can deal a maximum of 220 damage. 

 

Anyways, I'm not saying Twins is any less annoying than Autocannon Smoky.  Far from it.  I'm saying Autocannon Smoky for me is the most annoying Smoky iteration thus far. 

Actually you might be right - it IS 160 / barrel... but whether or not each barrel is out of sync by 0.27 I'm not entirely sure.

 

And of course - if you find the autocannon very annoying I can't deny that.

[enri_chill 265]

I wish the -66% nerf kept the Autocannon in check, but I'm afraid it ain't so in practice.  Per the official Tanki Wiki:

 

Stock M3+ Twins Impact Force = 160

Stock M3+ Smoky Impact Force = 330

 

Autocannon M3+ Smoky Impact Force = 330 * 2/3 = 220

 

Welp.  Even with Autocannon, Smoky STILL has more impact force than Twins!  Sure, Twins' Stable Plasma slightly bumps up impact force, but only by 10%, not enough to surpass Smoky's impact force.

 

And while we're comparing Twins and Smoky, let's look at their reload speeds!

 

Stock M3+ Twins Reload time = 0.27 seconds

Stock M3+ Smoky Reload time = 1.5 seconds

Autocannon M3+ Smoky Reload time = 0.5 seconds

 

Okay, Twins reloads faster than Autocannon Smoky, but this still doesn't change the fact that being hit by 220 Impact Force rounds every half-second is enough to jostle tanks around to the point of aggravation.  Certainly enough to consistently throw off the aim of anyone facing this ugly alteration.

 

The only problem with your analysis is your math:)

 

There is a 66% reduction in smoky's impact force. Your formula you used above would only account for a reduction of 33.3%.

The proper formula to determine the m4/m3+ smoky impact with the autocannon alt would be 330*.34=112.2 impact force.

In other words it has 30% less impact than the twins.

 

I have faced the autocannon with my hunter and shaft several times. Each time the autocannon has been defeated when we see each other near the same time. The force is not so strong that I cannot land a scoped shot with the shaft. Facing m3+ rico, twins, or stock smoky is a different story altogether.

Edited November 11, 2018 by enri_chill

[N3tralRE 282]

The only problem with your analysis is your math:)

 

There is a 66% reduction in smoky's impact force. Your formula you used above would only account for a reduction of 33.3%.

The proper formula to determine the m4/m3+ smoky impact with the autocannon alt would be 330*.34=112.2 impact force.

In other words it has 30% less impact than the twins.

 

I have faced the autocannon with my hunter and shaft several times. Each time the autocannon has been defeated when we see each other near the same time. The force is not so strong that I cannot land a scoped shot with the shaft. Facing m3+ rico, twins, or stock smoky is a different story altogether.

D'oh!  I didn't even realize my math mistake!  My bad...

 

I forgot to mention that the other big annoying factor of facing Autocannon is having see the smoky explosions every second.  As I'm being bombarded with fast-firing Autocannon shells, the explosions obscure where my turret is pointed, causing me to panic a bit with my aiming. 

 

But beyond that, I see now that Autocannon Smokies are nothing more than mosquitoes.  As long as they're alive, Autocannons revel in pestering enemy tanks with their rapid fire.  But once you get their pattern down, they're just puny Smokies waiting to be swatted in no time.

 

Thanks for pointing out my mistake!

[Truthteller 4,204]

If Shaft is considered UP then I don't know what OP is, BTW if shaft vs smoky go head on with shaft use arcade I think Shaft will win

Edited November 17, 2018 by Truthteller

[GorgoBlesk 831]

If Shaft is considered UP then I don't know what OP is, BTW if shaft vs smoky go head on with shaft use arcade I think Shaft will win

Shaft arcade shots have very limited range and only 25% weak damage.

 

Scoped Shaft needs to be a sitting duck for 3 seconds to deal full damage.

 

Smoky has great range and 50% weak damage, the crits are also useful. It has also bigger impact force than Shaft arcade shots.

[Truthteller 4,204]

Shaft arcade shots have very limited range and only 25% weak damage.

 

Scoped Shaft needs to be a sitting duck for 3 seconds to deal full damage.

 

Smoky has great range and 50% weak damage, the crits are also useful. It has also bigger impact force than Shaft arcade shots.

Its much lower than 25%  :rolleyes:

[mhh.2000 888]

D'oh!  I didn't even realize my math mistake!  My bad...

 

I forgot to mention that the other big annoying factor of facing Autocannon is having see the smoky explosions every second.  As I'm being bombarded with fast-firing Autocannon shells, the explosions obscure where my turret is pointed, causing me to panic a bit with my aiming. 

 

But beyond that, I see now that Autocannon Smokies are nothing more than mosquitoes.  As long as they're alive, Autocannons revel in pestering enemy tanks with their rapid fire.  But once you get their pattern down, they're just puny Smokies waiting to be swatted in no time.

 

Thanks for pointing out my mistake!

I understand how autocannons can be annoying

I used to use smoky (it's 1 step away from being M4) but since the buff and the new alts update I have been facing so many smoky protections which made me switch to striker instead.

it's already hard enough to aim with striker , but smokies keep knocking my aim off , normal smokies have longer reload which gives me time to correct my aim , autocannon smokies however have constant impact force which adds a whole new level of difficulty to aiming with striker .

usually as soon as I see them , I wear smoky protection and start using the splash damage of striker to hurt them , and try to avoid having face to face combat with them ….

 

they are pretty rare though , and I barely see them in my everyday life , so I guess it's not really that big a deal

if you really want to compare them to twins , I can say with confidence that twins and ricochets have much , much higher impact force , maybe it's my imagination but when I'm running around and I face a twins user , he keeps me from turning my hull and it's almost impossible to hit them !!! I'm not even gonna talk about ricochet.

 

I wish they would add impact force protection , that would be cool :)

[Pyre 3,485]

The cryo rounds are super effective at taking out short ranged turrets.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

The cryo rounds are super effective at taking out short ranged turrets.

That is quite logical. Speed is very important for Fire, Freeze and Isida players (so they always use Hornet or Viking). What about afterburn rounds?

[Pyre 3,485]

That is quite logical. Speed is very important for Fire, Freeze and Isida players (so they always use Hornet or Viking). What about afterburn rounds?

Hard to say, but I dont think its as powerful towards the short-ranged turrets. They can generally get close enough to kill the smoky before they die of either the shots or the burning.

[lukey0 27,543]

That is quite logical. Speed is very important for Fire, Freeze and Isida players (so they always use Hornet or Viking). What about afterburn rounds?

I haven't bought the alteration, but I have been on the receiving end of it a few times. The burning time and the damage it delivers is quite good if the target doesn't have Firebird protection. Normally 2-3 shots and an afterburn critical will finish off medium and light hulls.

[N3tralRE 282]

 

I understand how autocannons can be annoying

I used to use smoky (it's 1 step away from being M4) but since the buff and the new alts update I have been facing so many smoky protections which made me switch to striker instead.

it's already hard enough to aim with striker , but smokies keep knocking my aim off , normal smokies have longer reload which gives me time to correct my aim , autocannon smokies however have constant impact force which adds a whole new level of difficulty to aiming with striker .

usually as soon as I see them , I wear smoky protection and start using the splash damage of striker to hurt them , and try to avoid having face to face combat with them ….

 

they are pretty rare though , and I barely see them in my everyday life , so I guess it's not really that big a deal

if you really want to compare them to twins , I can say with confidence that twins and ricochets have much , much higher impact force , maybe it's my imagination but when I'm running around and I face a twins user , he keeps me from turning my hull and it's almost impossible to hit them !!! I'm not even gonna talk about ricochet.

 

I wish they would add impact force protection , that would be cool :)

 

I definitely agree.  Facing Smoky at mid-long range is never easy thanks to its steady firing rate, consistent damage, recoil punch, and critical hits/alteration effects that may throw players off.  Beating Smoky typically means getting the jump on them (which applies for any enemy encounter) and/or attacking them from a far enough distance that would minimize Smoky's damage