Let's Discuss Matchmaking

[OKDad70 862]

Incendiary rounds are best Smoky alteration because incendiary crit deals much higher total damage than standard crit.

 

Since the Smoky has got 50% weak damage, it is the most OP turret after Duplet Hammer and Thunder. It is effective at any range. I often kill enemies across the map with my M2 Titan Smoky.

 

Shaft arcade shots are useless due to low range and 25% weak damage and you need full energy for sniper mode. I stopped playing Shaft after that stupid nerf.

 

I consider Hornet and Viking as bad for sniping because they are too flat and their aim is too easy to knock. Wasp is good only with Rail.

 

Best hulls for campers who also attack are Titan and Hunter. They have ideal height. Mammoth is too slow and Dictator is too high for close range fights.

Solid advice. I don't much like the concept of Shaft and have never used it, but I suspect a player who developed the appriate skills could generally out do better than average Smokies. (Of course, I think the top 1% Smokies can beat anybody in almost all one-on-one encounters.

 

My son (Donut70 [what can I say, I am a proud dad]) prides himself on beating Rails and Shafts nearly all the time. His speciality was hitting them on the run. He'd spot the sniper and ping the corner, causing the miss, at full speed.

[OKDad70 862]

Read this:

https://ru.tankiwiki.com/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

 

If you are awesome enough to read Russian, cool. Otherwise, be sure you have automatic translation turned on in your browser. (Like Google Translate in Chrome.)

 

Gorgo pointed out how much more damage the incendiary round does for Smoky.  :blink: (That does assume the target does not have Fire protection.)

 

This one is worth your perusal as well: https://ru.tankiwiki.com/%D0%A3%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0

[wolverine848 13,097]

Read this:

https://ru.tankiwiki.com/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

 

If you are awesome enough to read Russian, cool. Otherwise, be sure you have automatic translation turned on in your browser. (Like Google Translate in Chrome.)

 

Gorgo pointed out how much more damage the incendiary round does for Smoky.  :blink: (That does assume the target does not have Fire protection.)

 

This one is worth your perusal as well: https://ru.tankiwiki.com/%D0%A3%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0

Assume no smoky and no fire protection - does either stock or incendiary do more than the other?

 

Also... supplies are used a LOT in MM ... so are they taken into account?

DD would affect regular shots and critical shots.

Does DD affect incendiary rounds?

Edited January 21, 2019 by wolverine848

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Assume no smoky and no fire protection - does either stock or incendiary do more than the other?

 

Also... supplies are used a LOT in MM ... so are they taken into account?

DD would affect regular shots and critical shots.

Does DD affect incendiary rounds?

Supplies affect afterburn damage, of course. Fire, incendiary Vulcan and incendiary Smoky with DD deal enormous afterburn damage. Afterburn is so OP that M1 and M2 modules are totally useless against it.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Supplies affect afterburn damage, of course. Fire, incendiary Vulcan and incendiary Smoky with DD deal enormous afterburn damage. Afterburn is so OP that M1 and M2 modules are totally useless against it.

You mean like my (overheating) m2 Vulcan Hunter using an m2 fire module?    :angry:

Edited January 21, 2019 by wolverine848

[OKDad70 862]

Assume no smoky and no fire protection - does either stock or incendiary do more than the other?

 

Also... supplies are used a LOT in MM ... so are they taken into account?

DD would affect regular shots and critical shots.

Does DD affect incendiary rounds?

I'm not sure I follow. Did you read? The following assumes I understand your question. 

 

Incendiary rounds and standard are the same for regular shots, 535 hp average (M4). The critical for standard is 800 hp. The critical for incendiary is the same as the regular shot, 535 hp average, plus instant 0.5 temperature, thus 75 hp per tick (0.25 second) until a repair kit is activated (see note below), or until it inflicts 1500 hp and is back to 0.0 temperature after five seconds (assuming no friendly Freeze). So, instead of 800, 2035. Given this translated statement, "Discretization of own temperature recovery - once per second." It seems incendiary will always give at least 835 hp (assuming no supplies initially) even if repair kit is activated perfectly. 

 

Supplies are part of the game. If you don't use them, embrace the suck. If you do, get better at it. (Generic statement, not directed at you.)

 

The statement (translated) is "Flamethrower-protected modules, “Double Damage” and “Double Protection” supplies affect burning damage.", but it won't matter for a Smoky, since it is an instant 50% max temperature.

 

Burn rate is 300 hit points per second, or 75 per tick. Cooling resolves per second, 0.1 per second, so without a repair kit or overdrive, full temperature will inflict 3000 hit points (300 per second for 10 seconds). I'm still not sure exactly how DD affects burn rate in this case. It doesn't seem to me that DD doubles burn rate to 600 per second, but maybe. Maybe that is why death always seems certain when attacked by a DD Firebird and not having DA active. DD Firebird would do over 1400 hp in the first second, and a full 2000 in the second, and if the fire ends then, 6000 more burn damage, which would take out anything that didn't have a repair kit. This game has gotten complicated.

 

This statement is based on my guess: If you activate a repair kit during the second you eliminate the cause of temperature increase, the initial 1000 repair occurs, but the burn doesn't stop, and the temperature doesn't drop, and you don't get the rest of the repair. I'm not sure of that, but it seems so to me so far, and I avoid using repair kit while burning until I know the fire or incendiary is no longer a threat. The repair kit "reduces burning or freezing affect", but nowhere can I find by how much. It never seems to be much for freeze, and burn seems to be too little if too fast, and sufficient if one can afford to wait at least two seconds. Again, I'm guessing. Does anyone know if the "reduced" amount has ever been officially quantified?

 

The incendiary round hits at the same rate as the crit for smoky (one per five, average). It does standard damage rather than the crit damage, but it instantly heats the target to 0.5 temperature. That will result in 1500 hit points without supplies. It will take five seconds. If you have double armor, it will only do 750, but the crit would have been only 400. M4 Smoky does an average of 535 hit points per shot and 800 when it is a critical (doubled if you have DD, halved if target has DA). For burn, I assume the incendiary doesn't set the target to 0.5 temperature if the target has protection against fire. It is clearly defined for rate affect versus rate-based heating, but with the instant heating, I haven't a guess yet. Does 50% protection set burn temperature to only 0.25? I don't know. It might be 0.33. It might still be 0.5. The difference in the fraction matters in burn time. The amount is decreased by the amount of protection. That is, instead of 300 per second, with 50% protection, it would be 150 per second.

 

Perhaps these comments should have been in Alterations. Oh well.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Read this:

https://ru.tankiwiki.com/%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

The EN wiki has a translation for this page:

https://en.tankiwiki.com/Temperature

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

The statement (translated) is "Flamethrower-protected modules, “Double Damage” and “Double Protection” supplies affect burning damage.", but it won't matter for a Smoky, since it is an instant 50% max temperature.

 

Burn rate is 300 hit points per second, or 75 per tick. Cooling resolves per second, 0.1 per second, so without a repair kit or overdrive, full temperature will inflict 3000 hit points (300 per second for 10 seconds). I'm still not sure exactly how DD affects burn rate in this case. It doesn't seem to me that DD doubles burn rate to 600 per second, but maybe. Maybe that is why death always seems certain when attacked by a DD Firebird and not having DA active. DD Firebird would do over 1400 hp in the first second, and a full 2000 in the second, and if the fire ends then, 6000 more burn damage, which would take out anything that didn't have a repair kit. This game has gotten complicated.

 

 

Perhaps these comments should have been in Alterations. Oh well.

Double Damage doubles the heating rate of the Firebird and probably the freezing rate of Freeze. For freeze, I've been trying to notice a difference but it's hard to tell. With or without double damage, it seems like I'm being frozen in the same amount of time. 

 

With Compact tanks, you just need to hit the enemy for 3 ticks of Direct Fire damage and they will reach the maximum temperature. With double damage, this is why a compact tanks Firebird can hit you for 1 or 2 ticks and you are already at maximum temperature. 

 

 

Also, why does it say that the "Maximum Temperature Limit +100%" doesn't increase the temperature limit to 2? What is the point of having that there then? Is it to persuade people into buying the alteration because they see 2 pros and 1 con instead of 1 pro and 1 con? 

The page doesn't give us that information. 

[JAGMAN2468 104]

 Matchmaking needs serious work.

Edited January 22, 2019 by JAGMAN2468

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Supplies affect afterburn damage, of course. Fire, incendiary Vulcan and incendiary Smoky with DD deal enormous afterburn damage. Afterburn is so OP that M1 and M2 and m3 and m4 modules are totally useless against it.

Fixed.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I'm not sure I follow. Did you read? The following assumes I understand your question. 

 

 

 

Incendiary rounds and standard are the same for regular shots, 535 hp average (M4). The critical for standard is 800 hp. The critical for incendiary is the same as the regular shot, 535 hp average, plus instant 0.5 temperature, thus 75 hp per tick (0.25 second) until a repair kit is activated (see note below), or until it inflicts 1500 hp and is back to 0.0 temperature after five seconds (assuming no friendly Freeze). So, instead of 800, 2035. Given this translated statement, "Discretization of own temperature recovery - once per second." It seems incendiary will always give at least 835 hp (assuming no supplies initially) even if repair kit is activated perfectly. 

 

Supplies are part of the game. If you don't use them, embrace the suck. If you do, get better at it. (Generic statement, not directed at you.)

 

 

 

The statement (translated) is "Flamethrower-protected modules, “Double Damage” and “Double Protection” supplies affect burning damage.", but it won't matter for a Smoky, since it is an instant 50% max temperature.

 

 

 

Burn rate is 300 hit points per second, or 75 per tick. Cooling resolves per second, 0.1 per second, so without a repair kit or overdrive, full temperature will inflict 3000 hit points (300 per second for 10 seconds). I'm still not sure exactly how DD affects burn rate in this case. It doesn't seem to me that DD doubles burn rate to 600 per second, but maybe. Maybe that is why death always seems certain when attacked by a DD Firebird and not having DA active. DD Firebird would do over 1400 hp in the first second, and a full 2000 in the second, and if the fire ends then, 6000 more burn damage, which would take out anything that didn't have a repair kit. This game has gotten complicated.

 

This statement is based on my guess: If you activate a repair kit during the second you eliminate the cause of temperature increase, the initial 1000 repair occurs, but the burn doesn't stop, and the temperature doesn't drop, and you don't get the rest of the repair. I'm not sure of that, but it seems so to me so far, and I avoid using repair kit while burning until I know the fire or incendiary is no longer a threat. The repair kit "reduces burning or freezing affect", but nowhere can I find by how much. It never seems to be much for freeze, and burn seems to be too little if too fast, and sufficient if one can afford to wait at least two seconds. Again, I'm guessing. Does anyone know if the "reduced" amount has ever been officially quantified?

 

The incendiary round hits at the same rate as the crit for smoky (one per five, average). It does standard damage rather than the crit damage, but it instantly heats the target to 0.5 temperature. That will result in 1500 hit points without supplies. It will take five seconds. If you have double armor, it will only do 750, but the crit would have been only 400. M4 Smoky does an average of 535 hit points per shot and 800 when it is a critical (doubled if you have DD, halved if target has DA). For burn, I assume the incendiary doesn't set the target to 0.5 temperature if the target has protection against fire. It is clearly defined for rate affect versus rate-based heating, but with the instant heating, I haven't a guess yet. Does 50% protection set burn temperature to only 0.25? I don't know. It might be 0.33. It might still be 0.5. The difference in the fraction matters in burn time. The amount is decreased by the amount of protection. That is, instead of 300 per second, with 50% protection, it would be 150 per second.

 

Perhaps these comments should have been in Alterations. Oh well.

 

 

This is what I needed.  Thanks.

 

Example of Incendiary in burning indicates 1500 damage?  That's nuts!  Alterations are not supposed to make turrets better.

It also requires 2 different protection modules to limit damage.  So they double-down on the buff.  INSANE

 

In what way is stock better than Incendiary?

Edited January 22, 2019 by wolverine848

[OKDad70 862]

This is what I needed.  Thanks.

 

[…] In what way is stock better than Incendiary?

Glad I could help. And, stock is inferior to Incendiary. I hadn't previously run the numbers. In my opinion, Smoky should always be equipped with Incendiary, Assault, or Cryo depending on the player's objectives and preferences. A precision Smoky expert is probably best off with the Assault rounds. Most others will be served best with which ever of the other two best suites their style.

 

I keep forgetting our topic is MM. If we have more, we should take it to the Alterations topic.

Edited January 22, 2019 by OKDad70

[OKDad70 862]

[…]

Also, why does it say that the "Maximum Temperature Limit +100%" doesn't increase the temperature limit to 2? What is the point of having that there then? Is it to persuade people into buying the alteration because they see 2 pros and 1 con instead of 1 pro and 1 con? 

The page doesn't give us that information. 

The "100%" here is being used equivalent to "1". It is not 100% more; simply 100%, which is equal to one whole, or 1. The rest of your statement has me say, "Who can know?" 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

The "100%" here is being used equivalent to "1". It is not 100% more; simply 100%, which is equal to one whole, or 1. The rest of your statement has me say, "Who can know?" 

It would have made more sense to just leave that out. Even if they didn't leave it out, it would have made more sense to say "Maximum Temperature Limit =100%" NOT +100%. Obviously, this is causing confusion. 

 

I'm tired of being touched by drugged-up Compact Tanks for 0.5 seconds and then dying a slow death in MM battles. I don't have much (by my standards) Repair Kits left. 

 

I don't like that a Compact Tanks Firebird can kill me with all of its ammo and then recharge quickly to kill another medium or light hull right after. In TDM, it's simply too much to handle. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

I don't like that a Compact Tanks Firebird can kill me with all half of its ammo, kill another tank with the other half and then recharge quickly to kill another 2 more medium or light hulls right after. In TDM, it's simply too much to handle. 

Fixed it for you...

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Plus, there is also the fact you are a sniper. The higher the ranks, the better able opponents are at dispatching snipers. Magnums are particularly hard for Shafts to deal with. Further, the longer players have played, the more likely they have acquired good Shaft protection. One eventually gets fed up with being spawn-killed by far-off Shafts.

 

If you prefer Shaft, well, you have two kits open to you:

 

Centaur

Hornet М3, Shaft М3,

Mars, Eagle M3 

338 107 crystals

 

Sniper

Viking М3, Shaft М3,

Needle, Eagle M3 

447 300

 

And since you already have the M3 Viking, the Centaur is your obvious choice, even if you never use the Hornet.

You are correct Dad70. Higher rank, the more likely a tank to have Eagle module. But the good thing is Shaft is rare sight in high rank. 

 

As I rank higher, my Shaft skill hones and learn to counter other Shafters. 

 

I can't wait to get Centaur kit when I promote to Brigadier. 

[OKDad70 862]

It would have made more sense to just leave that out. Even if they didn't leave it out, it would have made more sense to say "Maximum Temperature Limit =100%" NOT +100%. Obviously, this is causing confusion. 

 

I'm tired of being touched by drugged-up Compact Tanks for 0.5 seconds and then dying a slow death in MM battles. I don't have much (by my standards) Repair Kits left. 

 

I don't like that a Compact Tanks Firebird can kill me with all of its ammo and then recharge quickly to kill another medium or light hull right after. In TDM, it's simply too much to handle. 

The temperature is 0.0 until something heats or chills it. Thus, +100% or -100% is equivalent in this instance to +1 or -1. Yes, it is written a bit confusingly, but after decades of technical writing, I assure you, it never gets easy.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

The temperature is 0.0 until something heats or chills it. Thus, +100% or -100% is equivalent in this instance to +1 or -1. Yes, it is written a bit confusingly, but after decades of technical writing, I assure you, it never gets easy.

Why is it written as an "upgrade" or a "pro" for the alteration then? Why not keep it in white text instead of red or green?

[lssimo 1,559]

The game is multable. I posted example before, but who knows where those images are now.

 

 

Here the multing profile: https://ratings.tankionline.com/en/user/SACHAROMAN

 

I'm posting this as an example, I'm not reporting the player.

Edited January 23, 2019 by lssimo

[OKDad70 862]

It is hard to complain about MM for Deathmatch, except for the fact one is likely to face all 14 turrets. (Yes, I mean 14, counting mines, especially for players with the Saboteur drone.) And, the fact we can only mount three protections.

 

I have stated in other posts how I think MM balance can be improved, and I have explained why it cannot be successfully done. I've also tried to provide arguments why most suggestions are unhelpful even if implemented. For instance, I think considering gear score (GS) for balance is worse than just being random.

 

Here is an example of why I think GS is meaningless and why high-level Legends are not a problem in rank comparison.

 

I brag some, but Will Rogers liked to say it ain't braggin' if you done it. As you can see, I am quite capable. (M4 Ricochet-Dictator, no drone this round.)

 

I've pointed out often that as a Marshal and, now, Field Marshal, I'm often playing against high level Legends. I honestly think that is fair. Ricosck was fully upgraded M2 well before reaching Marshal rank, and I had the equipment upgraded to full M4 well before I achieved the Field Marshal rank.

 

Note that not only did four of the primary opponents have full 50% protection against my Ricochet, four were level 13 Legends and up (to 40). Obviously, their better garages didn't matter. If you look up GS, you really can't tell anything because you have no idea what they had equipped in that match versus what you see when you look them up. My quick check found gear scores between 6708 (level 3 Legend) to 8926. Ricosck was 8420 as equipped in that match.

 

Skill mattered. These were obviously skilled players, but I apparently had the edge in that particular match.

 

I say it that way because I had three good protections for dealing with the most significant opponents. Sure, I can change, but that loses battle time, and it can only be done once. I'm saying I got lucky. I had the skill to take optimal advantage of that luck, but a different map and everything else the same would have had different results. If some of the players had different equipment for that match, the outcome would have been different.

 

Note that skill comes from playing time, and I also complain about how much time is required for daily and weekly missions. The majority of players do not play an average of 7 hours per week. Since the Challenge began, I seem to be playing 8 to 10 per week, average, which is two or three more than I was before. It is a lot. It will not get me to 2000 stars (as you can see). I agree missions should encourage playing time, and regular play, hopefully daily, but too much time burns people out. If you want to be skilled at this game, play. Skill with a given set of equipment takes time, and changing to different equipment will take more time. I encourage significant play time, but I think 4 to 6 hours per week should be the target, not 10 to 12. Most people cannot afford it, even if they do it. (Some can, and I say more power to 'em, but not most. I spend more time on these untrustworthy forums than I can afford.)

 

I'm emphasizing that equipment levels and rank levels were not significant in this match. I find that generally true.

 

Of course, a match or two earlier, Rugby on Kunger, Ricosck was the highest rank. There, rank mattered. Equipment like Ricosck should not be facing Colonels. I was on the winning team, 7 goals to 1. I ranked 2nd (by 5 points) to a Marshal. I didn't look anything up, but I bet equipment level was not the difference between first and second place finish. Yes, my team out gunned the other team, but that was mostly the bad balance that we all complain about in MM. The lack of balance is the big problem, and I see no reasonable chance of fixing it.

 

I think Tanki's rank consideration in MM is about as good as one can hope for, at least if one complains (as I do) about typically waiting in queue for specific battle modes for around 90 seconds each match. I think Tanki's considerations for balance, whatever they may be, stink. Balance seems to be bad more often than one intuitively expects from random matching according to rank.

 

MM is broken, and missions and other perqs need to be decoupled from MM requirements.

 

A final note, I can vouch for the activity of every player in that battle. All were fighting. I saw it. One did not get a star reward. The "activity" requirement, as it is deceptively labeled, is wrong. It is absolutely unjustifiable and needs to be ended.

 

Nicola_M If you care to comment, I'd appreciate your feedback.

[Viking4s 10,791]

The game is multable. I posted example before, but who knows where those images are now.

 

I'm posting this as an example, I'm not reporting the player.

Every game can host once in a while one troll or a kid that for which the game is above his skill. If you compare to what actually pro mult used to be able to accomplish before this is nothing. 

[lssimo 1,559]

Every game can host once in a while one troll or a kid that for which the game is above his skill. If you compare to what actually pro mult used to be able to accomplish before this is nothing. 

I posted more examples like this, the other day there was one mult just doing nothing, 0 score 0 kills 25 deaths, not because of spawn killing because it was a close battle, not even using overdrives, why wasn't that mult removed for inactivity? That's the COMPLAINT...

[Viking4s 10,791]

I posted more examples like this, the other day there was one mult just doing nothing, 0 score 0 kills 25 deaths, not because of spawn killing because it was a close battle, not even using overdrives, why wasn't that mult removed for inactivity? That's the COMPLAINT...

It's a nice collection of low level skills players you have. But maybe you should spend time observing skilled players instead.

Inactivity is based on tank's movement, if the player was not moving, then it would have been removed from battle. It is to remove player that are AFK.

Everybody can play, all level, that the desire of TO. You will end up with good player and with not so good. 

 

Complaints is about something that does not work as intended. In this case, your post belongs to a discussion topic.

[lssimo 1,559]

It's a nice collection of low level skills players you have. But maybe you should spend time observing skilled players instead.

Inactivity is based on tank's movement, if the player was not moving, then it would have been removed from battle. It is to remove player that are AFK.

Everybody can play, all level, that the desire of TO. You will end up with good player and with not so good.

 

Complaints is about something that does not work as intended. In this case, your post belongs to a discussion topic.

It's not that I spend my time observing these mults, save your those type of comments for someone else.

 

One can easily see who is fighting and who is not, who is trying and who is not, and I didn't meant that type of "inactivity", so if you don't understand what I mean go bother someone else.

Edited January 23, 2019 by lssimo

[Viking4s 10,791]

It's not that I spend my time observing these mults, save your those type of comments for someone else.

 

One can easily see who is fighting and who is not, who is trying and who is not, and I didn't meant that type of "inactivity", so if you don't understand what I mean go bother someone else.

If a player is sabotaging your game, use the vote button, this is how the system works for this type of player.