Rant: Tanki Needs to Re-evaluate Balancing

[Rhythmic 80]

Change is good. We oppose it, but it's good in the long run. Tanki is a very grindy game. To be at the top of the scoreboard, you must buy a few items and upgrade them to the next modification, or play Pro Battles without MUs. It is a very heavy investment for a (mostly) free to play player to dump all their crystals into 1 item and upgrade it.

 

When there is a balance patch that changes it's mechanics, and not necessarily its damage, it's a huge let down for the player. Take Vulcan for example. After its time-to start-rotating has increased, it became nonviable in many MM maps due to their size and lines of sight. I haven't seen a Vulcan in MM ever since. Another is Twins with it's reduced plasma speed. Another is Shaft with it's instant energy depletion with a scope shot. The list goes on.

 

I haven't played a match in almost 3 weeks after the most recent patch. It's just not fun when your respectable garage with upgraded equipment becomes useless. Why would I pay my money to play a game that doesn't compensate the players in some way after these changes? I don't support the decisions the developers are making. I won't pay $100 to get upgraded equipment then have it gathering dust the next month. Compensate for the investment that was put into the equipment by giving a fraction of the cost back to the player. Not the full amount, since you've added another item into your garage.

 

I love this game. There is no other game like it. This is by far the longest time I've committed in a game. I only wish for this game to keep growing in a positive manner.

[Pyre 3,485]

About shaft, I dont think it has really become weaker, its just that the play style changed. Arcade shots are now the primary attack mode, scope only being used at very long range encounters. Twins still seems quite OP, and Vulcan actually is better, although its still weak. I think it needs a buff (Maybe Im biased, its my favorite turret.)

 

And BTW thanks for being civil; alot of these complaints are so rude and unconstructive.

[r_Issimo2 1,495]

Drones are really bad for balance, then Overdrives and some Alterations.

[Amagi 1,728]

Why would I pay my money to play a game that doesn't compensate the players in some way after these changes? I don't support the decisions the developers are making. I won't pay $100 to get upgraded equipment then have it gathering dust the next month. Compensate for the investment that was put into the equipment by giving a fraction of the cost back to the player.

I see most people don't even read the EULA nowadays

9.3. The User hereby grants the Company the non-exclusive, royalty-free right  to use the Material(s) that the User has placed in the Game or has sent to the Company (including for participation in a contest).  The right to use the Materials includes the right to place, modify, adapt, transfer or sublicense to third parties, create derived Materials, redevelop Materials, distribute, delete, reproduce, show publicly, make available to the public and effect any changes, reductions, additions, comments, explanations to the Material, to publish Materials, to use Materials and/or otherwise without specifying the User and without granting any royalty or other compensation.

[SageoftheSixPaths 215]

Thunder is way too overpowered with that stupid new alteration. First, the turret needs severe nerfing like what magnum got in order to be balanced. Next, that alteration needs extra disadvantages like 150% self damage and a range nerf. But I know Maf will decline this idea because of.... maybe she is a thunder fangirl idk. I am waiting for the next nerfing cycle.

[Guest]

I've frankly lost all faith in the developers. In fact, I'm leaving this game (for real this time) after I rank to major. I was thinking about revisiting my "Problems of TO" series, but why bother? Nothing will change. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

I see most people don't even read the EULA nowadays

9.3. The User hereby grants the Company the non-exclusive, royalty-free right  to use the Material(s) that the User has placed in the Game or has sent to the Company (including for participation in a contest).  The right to use the Materials includes the right to place, modify, adapt, transfer or sublicense to third parties, create derived Materials, redevelop Materials, distribute, delete, reproduce, show publicly, make available to the public and effect any changes, reductions, additions, comments, explanations to the Material, to publish Materials, to use Materials and/or otherwise without specifying the User and without granting any royalty or other compensation.

Just because it's in the EULA doesn't mean the devs should make an update about it. 

 

The EULA doesn't count as any material evidence for your argument... so what if the EULA says it? That doesn't argue anything. 

[Amagi 1,728]

I was referring to the fact that he said that the devs should compensate the player for every change they make to the balance. I think the only time they did this was when they refunded all of the player's garages during the 2012 Rebalance update,  which was justifiable due to its scope.

 

Anyway, balance is a very touchy subject. For every miniscule change the developers make to a turret or hull, a butterfly sort of effect cascades down to every other turret. Add to the factor of individual skill level of each player, and it becomes a very, very complicated matter. (Don't even get me started on the alterations ugh)

 

I for one, think that relatively constant (i.e once or twice a year) balance patches keep the game fresh enough for decent player retention (and provide a stable revenue stream for the devs from players who keep looking for the next overpowered meta to buy). 

 

I think this vid explains the current situation much better than I ever could.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

For every miniscule change the developers make to a turret or hull, a butterfly sort of effect cascades down to every other turret. Add to the factor of individual skill level of each player, and it becomes a very, very complicated matter. (Don't even get me started on the alterations ugh)

This is all true, and yet the devs go and completely rework game mechanics or introduce new ones - Vulcan rework, afterburn change, drones, many new alterations. Minuscule changes would have been better.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

I was referring to the fact that he said that the devs should compensate the player for every change they make to the balance. I think the only time they did this was when they refunded all of the player's garages during the 2012 Rebalance update,  which was justifiable due to its scope.

 

Anyway, balance is a very touchy subject. For every miniscule change the developers make to a turret or hull, a butterfly sort of effect cascades down to every other turret. Add to the factor of individual skill level of each player, and it becomes a very, very complicated matter. (Don't even get me started on the alterations ugh)

 

 

 

I for one, think that relatively constant (i.e once or twice a year) balance patches keep the game fresh enough for decent player retention (and provide a stable revenue stream for the devs from players who keep looking for the next overpowered meta to buy). 

 

Devs have no clue how to apply small changes to improve things.  They use a Sledgehammer when a ball-peen is needed.

 

Case in point... Isida.  It had 50% vampirism - for quite some time - and they finally decided it was too powerful.

So instead of cutting that by 20% or 25% or even 30%, they reduced it to 10% and made it useless.

 

As no one used isida at that point they introduced an alteration that doubled the vampirsim from 10% to 20%

But this alteration came with a 50% nerf to damage.  Since vampirism depends on damage dealt... <_<

 

And then there's the Vulcan fiasco ThirdOnion mentioned.  Just 2 of many examples.

They make change upon change upon change without waiting for a baseline.

 

Then there's the changes that were desperately needed and... nothing from Devs. Examples... Striker (so weak no one used it) and Magnum (so OP there were many in every battle).

 

This is all true, and yet the devs go and completely rework game mechanics or introduce new ones - Vulcan rework, afterburn change, drones, many new alterations. Minuscule changes would have been better.

[sezze100 416]

You need to know how this game works . Rebalance is there because some turrets hulls arent bought/used anymore . This goes down to modules as well . So in order to keep people shuffling with all possible equipment  , they make it stronger or weaker at some points . When i was m1-m2 all i saw was fire/twins/rico and they ruled the maps , any game mode . Especially the twins were real allround killers .Twins are much less around now , but ricos has certainly taken over . Freeze was almost non excistent before rebalance while now freeze is used as much as firebirds . Isidas has and will be always around as long as they fix other tanks .

Thunder is always been good , but you got massive selfdamage from it . It isnt OP at all because of it . In fact , besides the aiming system , striker is much stronger then Thunder . Even its alts are now incredible , supermassive shots from Uranium alt or the single rocket aiming to help new people with its aiming .

Vulcan , my favorite ... i can talk a lot about it . With the new overheating alt it is very very strong . It isnt good for spawn killing escape , but it never was good at that . Vulcans need space , and now more then before , but given that space , you deal a lot of damage all around the playfield . I actually am convinced that in those cases it is the best turret ( given the alt , heavy hull , fire module ) . Ifyou got a experienced team also , the vulcan can keep its aim at a target which is barely visible , due to distance or trees / buildings  . A rail can take it out , where that vulcan is aiming . Sure this is advanced playing , but good players do notice those things .

Magnums has gotten a nerve which was well needed , but is given a alt after which makes it superannoying again ( mines ... ) .

You need to learn with the game instead of fighting against it . Learn the features of a weapon and use those . When rebalancing happens , do the same again .

Edited November 30, 2018 by sezze100

[wolverine848 13,097]

You need to know how this game works . Rebalance is there because some turrets hulls arent bought/used anymore . This goes down to modules as well . So in order to keep people shuffling with all possible equipment  , they make it stronger or weaker at some points .

 

 

When i was m1-m2 all i saw was fire/twins/rico and they ruled the maps , any game mode . Especially the twins were real allround killers .Twins are much less around now , but ricos has certainly taken over . Freeze was almost non excistent before rebalance while now freeze is used as much as firebirds . Isidas has and will be always around as long as they fix other tanks .

Thunder is always been good , but you got massive selfdamage from it . It isnt OP at all because of it . In fact , besides the aiming system , striker is much stronger then Thunder . Even its alts are now incredible , supermassive shots from Uranium alt or the single rocket aiming to help new people with its aiming .

Vulcan , my favorite ... i can talk a lot about it . With the new overheating alt it is very very strong . It isnt good for spawn killing escape , but it never was good at that . Vulcans need space , and now more then before , but given that space , you deal a lot of damage all around the playfield . I actually am convinced that in those cases it is the best turret ( given the alt , heavy hull , fire module ) . Ifyou got a experienced team also , the vulcan can keep its aim at a target which is barely visible , due to distance or trees / buildings  . A rail can take it out , where that vulcan is aiming . Sure this is advanced playing , but good players do notice those things .

Magnums has gotten a nerve which was well needed , but is given a alt after which makes it superannoying again ( mines ... ) .

 

 

You need to learn with the game instead of fighting against it . Learn the features of a weapon and use those . When rebalancing happens , do the same again .

Vulcan not nearly as good before you have access to m3 fire module and m3 heavy hull. My alt has it at m2+ and can't really use the alteration - I just keep dying even with my m2 fire module equipped.

 

Many players don't have the crystals to keep switching to the "turret of the month" or the new alterations that don't go on sale.

Until you are a Legend, it is not easy to manage more than a couple of combos and a grouping of modules.

 

And yes - from magnum all I see is that ridiculous mortar alteration - mines everywhere - which do more damage than a direct hit from un-nerfed magnum.  It's actually better for the Magnum to miss.  And encountering those mines in no-supply battles :angry:

[sezze100 416]

Vulcan not nearly as good before you have access to m3 fire module and m3 heavy hull. My alt has it at m2+ and can't really use the alteration - I just keep dying even with my m2 fire module equipped.

 

Many players don't have the crystals to keep switching to the "turret of the month" or the new alterations that don't go on sale.

Until you are a Legend, it is not easy to manage more than a couple of combos and a grouping of modules.

 

And yes - from magnum all I see is that ridiculous mortar alteration - mines everywhere - which do more damage than a direct hit from un-nerfed magnum.  It's actually better for the Magnum to miss.  And encountering those mines in no-supply battles :angry:

True , i forgot i am playing now only with my legend account . In lower classes the differences between buyers and non buyers is getting incredibly big .

[Michael828 816]

With new overdrives like viking's coming out, and a drone that can recharge your overdrive faster, and overpowered alterations everywhere, I can guarantee we are very, very, very far from having balanced gameplay.

 

Enjoy these final moments you have, because soon drugs/drones/alterations are going to become more important in battle than your tank itself.

[splitterpoint 10,986]

To me, it looks like they just made that rule in the EULA to hide their own flaws of the profit strategy; The cheap way out.. and a safe answer for the staff to give on any of these kind of topics/questions.

 

They stand in their own right ofcourse and stuff has to be changed to accommodate for the path this game is following but you can't simply put up a rule and expect players to deal with a massive stat change in a grinding economy this game already has.

[Tani_S 736]

 

I enjoyed the video. Very nice clip!

To me it seems, that the devs aim for perfect imbalance, but in fact the balance is broken, especially in low ranks. But the balance is the most important factor for enjoying gameplay.

[N3tralRE 282]

Enjoy these final moments you have, because soon drugs/drones/alterations are going to become more important in battle than your tank itself.

I mean, for me, this grim-sounding future has long already arrived.  Before we got alterations and drones, plenty of drugs were used in team battles, and these battles often boiled down to four outcomes we still see today: 1. Blowout/No contest (common), 2. Good Margin of Victory (also common), 3. Stalemate (uncommon), 4. A Tightly Narrow Margin of Victory (rarest).  Sure, times were "simpler" back then, but I don't recall pre-alteration Tanki being anything but a mixture of chaos, skill, and hit-or-miss battle quality.

 

When crazy effective alterations like Stable Plasma and Compact Tank were implemented around at least Fall 2016, the chaos component of Tanki gameplay became much more noticeable, but the chaos, skill, and hit-or-miss battle quality mixture was still there. 

 

And now, the devs have implemented 15 Drones, extra spices that the devs added to make Tanki's chaos more "flavorful".  Sure, drones like Driver and Saboteur will only take Tanki's chaos to another dimension, but once we've adapted to that dimension, Tanki for me will still be chaos, skill, and hit-or-miss battle quality. 

 

Same goes for the planned new Overdrives.  Sure, facing Viking Overdrives won't necessarily be fun at all, but eventually we'll adapt to the "unfathomable" Overdrives and Tanki will end up being the same old same old. 

 

In short, the way I see Tanki is this: "the more things change, the more things stay the same". 

[Pythor 1,354]

With new overdrives like viking's coming out, and a drone that can recharge your overdrive faster, and overpowered alterations everywhere, I can guarantee we are very, very, very far from having balanced gameplay.

 

Enjoy these final moments you have, because soon drugs/drones/alterations are going to become more important in battle than your tank itself.

This guy has hit the problem right on the shnoze. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I am already anticipating that many Driver drones will be purchased after the release of the Hull-specific Overdrives. Personally, I'm not gonna invest 50k into a driver drone just to follow the population. 

 

They better make some hulls' Overdrives charge faster than others. Viking and Mammoth's Overdrive should charge the slowest and MAYBE Wasp's Overdrive should charge the fastest. (Just because it can be easily avoidable assuming that the blast radius isn't huge) Hunter, Titan and Dictator can be in the middle with Hornet being slightly longer. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Thunder is always been good , but you got massive selfdamage from it . It isnt OP at all because of it.

Vulcan , my favorite ... i can talk a lot about it . With the new overheating alt it is very very strong . It isnt good for spawn killing escape , but it never was good at that . Vulcans need space , and now more then before , but given that space , you deal a lot of damage all around the playfield . I actually am convinced that in those cases it is the best turret ( given the alt , heavy hull , fire module ) . Ifyou got a experienced team also , the vulcan can keep its aim at a target which is barely visible , due to distance or trees / buildings . A rail can take it out , where that vulcan is aiming . Sure this is advanced playing , but good players do notice those things

Thunder players who can not use their splash and tend to suffer from self-damage should buy Subcaliber rounds. The alteration costs only 20000 crystals and it does not only remove splash, it increases recoil and impact force by 10% (good for parkour).

 

You absolutely forgot Smoky. Since October, Smoky has 50% weak damage like Thunder so it can snipe effectively. It can even kill Rail or Shaft across the map. Even more, Smoky got Incendiary rounds alteration which costs 100000 crystals but it is really OP. Afterburn shot inflicts far more damage than standard critical, even at long range.

 

Vulcan got Incendiary band. Yes, that alt is strong but only with Viking Isida which constantly heals you.

 

Rail got Electromagnetic accelator 'Scout'. It is the best Rail alt because it shortens your shot delay to 0,5s (!) and does NOT decrease your DPS.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Rail got Electromagnetic accelator 'Scout'. It is the best Rail alt because it shortens your shot delay to 0,5s (!) and does NOT decrease your DPS.

It DOES NOT decrease the charge up time by 50%, it decreases the RELOAD TIME by 50%. The charge up time decreases by 20%. The Wiki has the wrong information. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

It DOES NOT decrease the charge up time by 50%, it decreases the RELOAD TIME by 50%. The charge up time decreases by 20%. The Wiki has the wrong information.

Wiki is wrong? How the...

 

They want to sell a useless alt by claiming that it is powerful???

[WhiteAlbatross 30]

Wiki is wrong? How the...

 

They want to sell a useless alt by claiming that it is powerful???

RU wiki is usually the most reliable source : https://ru.tankiwiki.com/%D0%A3%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Wiki is wrong? How the...

 

They want to sell a useless alt by claiming that it is powerful???

What the wiki is claiming is less powerful than what it actually is. 

 

For M4 Railgun, if it was exactly how the Wiki stated, it would shoot a shot every 3.7 seconds but with what it actually is, M4 Railgun shoots a shot every 2.8 seconds. 

[GorgoBlesk 831]

What the wiki is claiming is less powerful than what it actually is.

 

For M4 Railgun, if it was exactly how the Wiki stated, it would shoot a shot every 3.7 seconds but with what it actually is, M4 Railgun shoots a shot every 2.8 seconds.

You did not count shot delay. Rail just can not have 1,7 sec reload. Can it?