category Ideas for Matchmaking System!

[jjg_the_dark 455]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:56 AM, mjmj5558 said:

Nothing is completely fair. YouTube is not fair because it favours popular creators who can afford spending a lot of money on their videos. Gaming is not fair because people with better PCs can perform better. The internet is not fair, because people from poor background can't have access to it  or it's really slow. The world is jot fair either. So it's not worth it to uave these all?

 

Imo playing a 1v1 battle would be worse than playing a battle against stronger enemies. None of them are good,  that's certainly true, but when the devs had to choose, they probably did the researched and came to the conclusion that the 2nd option is better.

The thing is, no matter what system we have, the chanxe of loosing will ALWAYS be 50%. Actually a bit higher due to the fact that if one team has  tank advantage for a long time, it'll probably win, thus, more players win than lose in general.

Obviously the algorithm will be different,as now it will have to deal with bots, which requires changes. So if they make it well, you shouldn't face more than like 5 rank difference after that.

 

Yes. I highly doubt that any significant number of players leave due to matchmaking. This is a 14 year old gamey so there are surely ones leaving due to the simple fact that now they're adults and don't have time\want to play video games in any significant amount. There are also people who got bored of the game and want something different. You can't do anything about these two if you are a dev, what you should do is get new players. This step is clearly missing from TO. The other major reason is the lack of equipment balance. It's hard to enjoy a battle where most players use OP agments, if you don't join them you won't be able to compete, and even if you do so, TTK will be too low to be enjoyable.

"I highly doubt that any significat number of players leave due to matchmaking". You are either ignorant or you are in denial. Before matchmaking was implemented, I remember having 60,000+ CONCURRENT player online with hundreds of battles at the same time and servers in 3 continents to acommodate all these players.  During the testing phase of matchmaking the majority of players warned Tanki that at its present format matchmaking is not desireable and that they will stop playing.  Well Tanki went ahead, and now they barely have a few thousand and meybe a few hundred CONCURRENT.  Due to lack of players, they had to consolidate servers and they dumped us with the Russians who are the worst players of all. The sever loss of income manifests itself in Tanki's inability to keep up the servers, hire better programmers, hire a knowldgable head game designer, etc. Why do you think they lost all their Community managers going back to Symeon? We are having severe issues playing the game for months yet they just ackolwedged officially this fact. Meanwhile they let their players try to enter the game, waste time and supplies and not been able to complete some of the missions.

[Deceptive-Hope_EN.PL 162]

Replace MM with a more simple system? Heh, dreams bro, dreams. But we all have the right to dream.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/13/2023 at 4:35 PM, jjg_the_dark said:

You are either ignorant or you are in denial.

I think it's denial.

I had a big reply typed out but deleted it when I saw your post.

I thought something was wrong with my wording or they didn't understand english, but I think you are correct.

They actually sound like a developer or other moderator with an alternate account trying too hard to convince everyone that there is nothing wrong with tanki.

Like Oz behind the curtain pulling his levers and pressing his buttons trying to fool the adventurers...

[NikmanGT 4,362]

Keep the chat civil and respectful.

[CaptainKiller 67]

On 6/14/2023 at 1:27 AM, Jeers4U said:

You just proved Mjmj558 wrong with your first two sentences. Thank you.

Wanting more doesn't factor into it.

Basing MM on gear score is literally the only way. If you change to 9999 later, you are not allowed back into the game.

 

See how simple it is?

How hard can it be to code an algorithm that determines the MAXIMUM GS - COMBO a player could possibly have with the garage items that he/she CURRENTLY owns? This addition to MM can fix a lot of things. I have seen a lot of "Low Ranks" who own ALOT better equipment than their opponents (cuz $$$$$). It would be fair to match players according to their MAXIMUM POSSIBLE equipment LEVEL rather than rank (because devs have screwed up game balance anyways).

Give Rank a 2nd priority cuz it's a well-known fact that NEWBIES DON'T EXIST ANYMORE! NO ONE PLAYS THIS GAME (EXCEPT VETERANS WHO ARE NOW LEAVING)

This kind of fixes most of the problems we have in MM currently (Unfairness). Though in my opinion:

1. Getting rid of Assault and Seige would divert more players to other game modes. 
2. Making Fairness a priority as compared to making battles full.
3. Reducing the battle size of Most maps by 20% - so that more battles are created and less time is taken to wait in limbo. (Plus reduces the CHAOS)

Edited June 14, 2023 by CaptainKiller
Clarifications.

[Romantically 282]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:27 PM, Jeers4U said:

You just proved Mjmj558 wrong with your first two sentences. Thank you.

 

No, I agree with mjmj558's opinions.

 

On 6/13/2023 at 10:27 PM, Jeers4U said:

it.

Basing MM on gear score is literally the only way. If you change to 9999 later, you are not allowed back into the game.

 

See how simple it is?

Good luck implementing that, what's stopping a player from using a full combo minus maxed hull to get + - 7k gs?

[Romantically 282]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:35 PM, jjg_the_dark said:

 Due to lack of players, they had to consolidate servers and they dumped us with the Russians who are the worst players of all. 

RU EN PL have always been same servers, only LATAM and such had separate

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:35 PM, jjg_the_dark said:

I highly doubt that any significat number of players leave due to matchmaking". You are either ignorant or you are in denial. Before matchmaking was implemented, I remember having 60,000+ CONCURRENT player online with hundreds of battles at the same time and servers in 3 continents to acommodate all these players.  During the testing phase of matchmaking the majority of players warned Tanki that at its present format matchmaking is not desireable and that they will stop playing

Just because it had 60K concurrent players bsck then, it doesn't mean that those players left because if MM. Actually, let's check!

 

Here are V-LOGs where they talk about MM. In the comments i could only see POSITIVE posts about MM.

Here's the V-LOG after the live tests:

Under this V-LOG, there are indeed negative feedback as well, while others actually supported MM. However it is clear that not thousands of players complained about it, so it definitely can't be counted as an update that caused a lot of players to leave.

 

On 6/14/2023 at 9:27 AM, CaptainKiller said:

How hard can it be to code an algorithm that determines the MAXIMUM GS - COMBO a player could possibly have with the garage items that he/she CURRENTLY owns? This addition to MM can fix a lot of things. I have seen a lot of "Low Ranks" who own ALOT better equipment than their opponents (cuz $$$$$). It would be fair to match players according to their MAXIMUM POSSIBLE equipment LEVEL rather than rank (because devs have screwed up game balance anyways).

GS based MM won't work well because then you'll have no motivation to upgarde your equipment, actually, the more you upgarde, the worse, as you'll be matched with more skillful players. This is not something you'd want.

Having powerful gear at low ranks is indeed a problem, but it's not about MM, thus, that belongs to a different topic.

[CaptainKiller 67]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:17 PM, mjmj5558 said:

GS based MM won't work well because then you'll have no motivation to upgarde your equipment, actually, the more you upgarde, the worse, as you'll be matched with more skillful players. This is not something you'd want.

Having powerful gear at low ranks is indeed a problem, but it's not about MM, thus, that belongs to a different topic.

We can Debate on this though. A different topic indeed.... in my opinion, a separate topic in 'Ideas and Suggestions', but it's RELATED to FIXING the Current MM situation. Here is my response:

1. Only skilled people play this game currently cuz no one NEW is joining (at least this is what I have observed), so the skill issue should be out of the question right?
2. You have to spend those crystals either way, one day or another. Plus no one is gonna Microupgrade any Turret/Hull/Module after what devs did to '0' Crystal discount on full upgrades -  so sales probably going to be the time you see major shiftings.
3. All the factors should be considered. Only said that 'GS' should be considered above all. Therefore it does not mean that a person who somehow managed to reach 'legend' by using mk3 or mk4 MAX equipment should find battles with Warrant Officers. I was only suggesting some improvements to the current algorithm to make it FAIR. In my opinion, AI designed for MM should be able to determine what to do ..... but in the current situation it is unable to execute its job properly since it was designed for huge playerbase back then therefore, GS mismatching has become a MAIN ISSUE currently- so, I gave my solution. Could be better solutions out there - just need to press those brain cells harder.
4. Then we have BUYERS who obtain garage items 5 Ranks before availability etc.... and they make normal people feel like PRACTICE TARGETS. A reason which may be good enough to implement a GS-based MM.
5. Even if the Devs decide to improve MM; Just don't tell people what EXACTLY was an improvement in an algorithm. Who knows (or cares) that devs improved MM with my idea or someone else's or some new idea which came to their mind?
6. Yes, I agree that there will no motivation to upgrade a piece of equipment, but: only 1 or 2% of the people would do that. Also, that will be mostly done on ALT Accounts cuz these people would be legends (probably) and they want to mess with things, experimenting since the game is getting boring.

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by CaptainKiller

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/13/2023 at 11:05 PM, NikmanGT said:

Keep the chat civil and respectful.

I took out the delusional part.

But you'll be interested to know--as a mental health professional--the assessment is accurate.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/14/2023 at 3:27 AM, CaptainKiller said:

How hard can it be to code an algorithm that determines the MAXIMUM GS - COMBO a player could possibly have with the garage items that he/she CURRENTLY owns? This addition to MM can fix a lot of things. I have seen a lot of "Low Ranks" who own ALOT better equipment than their opponents (cuz $$$$$). It would be fair to match players according to their MAXIMUM POSSIBLE equipment LEVEL rather than rank (because devs have screwed up game balance anyways).

Give Rank a 2nd priority cuz it's a well-known fact that NEWBIES DON'T EXIST ANYMORE! NO ONE PLAYS THIS GAME (EXCEPT VETERANS WHO ARE NOW LEAVING)

This kind of fixes most of the problems we have in MM currently (Unfairness). Though in my opinion:

1. Getting rid of Assault and Seige would divert more players to other game modes. 
2. Making Fairness a priority as compared to making battles full.
3. Reducing the battle size of Most maps by 20% - so that more battles are created and less time is taken to wait in limbo. (Plus reduces the CHAOS)

It's not hard. Don't be fooled.

The developers created the MM system with all its flaws, they can UNmake it into a more fair system if they wanted to.

 

But it seems there are 2 kinds of people on this debate.

1, A large amount of players who think MM is UNfair and complain to make it fair to increase their enjoyment of the game.

2. A smaller number of players who think MM is fine and generally accept the inadequacies of tanki, but accept what is spoon fed to them.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:19 AM, Provence said:

No, I agree with mjmj558's opinions.

I know you do. That's why it's brilliant you proved him wrong accidentally.

 

On 6/14/2023 at 11:17 AM, mjmj5558 said:

Here are V-LOGs where they talk about MM. In the comments i could only see POSITIVE posts about MM.

Here's the V-LOG after the live test

GS based MM won't work well because then you'll have no motivation to upgarde your equipment, actually, the more you upgarde, the worse, as you'll be matched with more skillful players. This is not something you'd want.

Having powerful gear at low ranks is indeed a problem, but it's not about MM, thus, that belongs to a different topic.

Lol!

You are using tanki's own comment sections of 5 year old Vlogs as your source to prove tanki updates are well received?

That's like asking Trump how his term of Presidency went...

 

The motivation to upgrade? Sounds like something a developer would say. We're talking about MM, not upgrading.

I'd rather play someone of equal rank and win based on my skill than lose to a player of a much higher GS with more advanced weaponry and/or defence where skill doesn't even enter the equation at all--just to save a few seconds on battle wait-time.

 

You are looking at this problem from a developer's point of view and not a player. Never once have you talked about game enjoyment or player satisfaction/frustration.

And you haven't been able to see that. Your argument always boils down to justifying excuses to keep MM UNfair...

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jeers4U

[TargetXAcquired 277]

On 6/13/2023 at 4:16 PM, mjmj5558 said:

Why would anyone leave purely due to MM?

They don't. 

Would you like me to quote you 50 reasons why players probably leave, if so go check out every post i have ever done and you will probably find more than 50 "NEGATIVE reasons" why players quit.

On 6/13/2023 at 4:16 PM, mjmj5558 said:

Bro doing the same thing for 14 years can be boring

All depends really, does it not.

 

On 6/13/2023 at 7:02 PM, Provence said:

And basing MM on GS is out of the window because what will stop me from using 5k gs on purpose just to change to 9999 later

I came up with a viable working solution to that ages ago, it got ignored, no surprise there. 

[TargetXAcquired 277]

On 6/14/2023 at 1:19 PM, Provence said:

Good luck implementing that, what's stopping a player from using a full combo minus maxed hull to get + - 7k gs

I had the solution to all of the problems about G/S but it got ignored.

 

On 6/14/2023 at 4:17 PM, mjmj5558 said:

However it is clear that not thousands of players complained about it, so it definitely can't be counted as an update that caused a lot of players to leave.

The game is fundamentally broken, this is a glaring, undeniable fact.

MM "HAS NOT WORKED FROM DAY ONE" what part of that little quote is going way over your head. "DAY ONE" The first hour of day 1.

OP buyer only augments, along with the floating trash cans and multiple other crappy updates and the cash price of everything going up multiple times, along with servers dying every time they hold an event, along with countless other cash induced scams they entice the foolish with, this is the reason the player base has dwindled.

Quick profit/cash turnover for as little effort as possible, (copy/paste springs to mind) is the mantra of everything they do to the detriment of the game and most of the players that still play it.

For argument's sake lets say there are 10,000 players, of those I would guess that only a few hundred actually reap any kind of reward/satisfaction from the game. 

These numbers might not be accurate, but I'm betting there not far off.

The game is dying because of the DEVELOPERS, no other reason.

[CaptainKiller 67]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:35 AM, TargetXAcquired said:

The game is dying because of the DEVELOPERS, no other reason.

And that's how many 'popular' games back in the day died. I think that there is a reason why (not free) games are way popular... 

Time will tell though.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 6/15/2023 at 7:51 PM, Jeers4U said:

Lol!

You are using tanki's own comment sections of 5 year old Vlogs as your source to prove tanki updates are well received?

Exactly. You asked for sorce, here's the source. You said that tons of people said that they'll leave tanki if MM gets introduced, and that everyone took this negatively. These V-LOGs are exactly from that time. And it proves that you are not right. And the  again, i'm talking about MM, not tanki updates in general. I asked you already:

On 6/13/2023 at 5:16 PM, mjmj5558 said:

 Why do you add a meaning to my posts that are not even there multiple times? It's like i'm saying that the sun is shining and getting accused of writing that clouds doesn't exists. I never ignored loyal players, but they are not the topic here.

 

On 6/15/2023 at 7:51 PM, Jeers4U said:

The motivation to upgrade? Sounds like something a developer would say. We're talking about MM, not upgrading.

If we want to drastically change something, we should take a look at it's long term, indirect effects as well, not just the direct ones. Otherwise the whole update might be a big fail. So yeah, i indeed carefully consider the effect of ideas, but this is what you should do as well.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 6/15/2023 at 11:06 PM, TargetXAcquired said:

They don't [context: leave purely due to MM]. 

Okay, then we agree in this.

 

On 6/15/2023 at 11:06 PM, TargetXAcquired said:

I came up with a viable working solution to that ages ago, it got ignored, no surprise there. 

Link?

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/16/2023 at 6:34 AM, mjmj5558 said:

Exactly. You asked for sorce, here's the source. You said that tons of people said that they'll leave tanki if MM gets introduced, and that everyone took this negatively. These V-LOGs are exactly from that time. And it proves that you are not right. And the  again, i'm talking about MM, not tanki updates in general. I asked you already:

 

I don't think I have ever said MM was the only reason players have left. If I did, please quote where I said that.

If you follow any of my posts, you'll see that I have correctly identified dozens of reasons why people leave here and never return.

UNfair MM is definitely a main reason, but by no means is it even CLOSE to the only reason they leave.

 

On 6/16/2023 at 6:34 AM, mjmj5558 said:

If we want to drastically change something, we should take a look at it's long term, indirect effects as well, not just the direct ones. Otherwise the whole update might be a big fail. So yeah, i indeed carefully consider the effect of ideas, but this is what you should do as well.

Again. Spoken like a developer.

Are you ready to admit that you are a developer--or equivalent?

Or do we need to continue to pretend that you aren't?

 

Look, dude. Listen to me.

We are players actually telling you what we like and dislike about your game that you created.

You want to quote Vlogs from 5 years ago as to why this game isn't crap today? Go right ahead.

No one in this thread who has commented that MM needs to be fixed believes a word you say that it doesn't need fixing.

Not one word.

So then what exactly are you arguing? What is your angle or thought process?

 

Your general story of saying 'well, we had to do (update) because of (excuses), and we had to do (update) because of (excuses)' will never ever change the fact that here we are with a dwindling player base year after year--with you trying your best to maximize profits from those remaining, and attract new players--while still trying to disguise the (update) with (excuses) as necessity-driven instead of profit-driven.

I mean, really, you are creating fake players (bots) now to play the game. Let's let that sink in for a moment.

 

You can't attract and retain real people with real money to play this game, so you are going to try fake players--instead of fix a problem that real players have identified.

 

All the updates you 'carefully considered' long term, all the 'effect of ideas' you thought would make you more money, all the (updates) you thought would attract new players (and retain the ones that are still here) aren't working.

But instead of actually trying to fix MM--probably the biggest complaint of the players who remain--you've tried everything else BUT that. And failed.

 

Will you not actually consider making MM fair--using the suggestions provided here by real players--and see if THAT fixes some of your dwindling player base problem--instead of justifying (update) with (excuses)? I mean, the fact that you are even arguing with me about it shows how completely out of touch you are with a significant portion of your remaining player base.

 

Just fix it. You are a smart fellow. You can do it. I believe in you.

 

[mjmj5558 2,346]

 

On 6/17/2023 at 12:12 AM, Jeers4U said:

I don't think I have ever said MM was the only reason players have left. If I did, please quote where I said that.

 

On 6/12/2023 at 6:24 PM, Jeers4U said:

Have you asked anyone who has left why they left?  No, you haven't. So this conclusion is bogus, grasping, and ill conceived. Cite your source.

Here. You are denieing me, where i said that "I highly doubt that a significant amount of players left due to MM", thus, implicating that they did indeed leave due to MM.

 

On 6/17/2023 at 12:12 AM, Jeers4U said:

Are you ready to admit that you are a developer--or equivalent?

.

[Akame 4,578]

On 6/9/2023 at 4:46 PM, mjmj5558 said:

Nope. Exploitation is for example, where you make a PRO battle and join with your alts to do your missions. 1v1 island is a complete normal battle if there wouldn't be MM.

I remember this, island 1v1 creation with ctf, to cap a flag mission, one would enter, get someone else or an alt to join and then cap and repeat for other types, it was pretty disengaging

[CaptainKiller 67]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:12 AM, Jeers4U said:

I don't think I have ever said MM was the only reason players have left. If I did, please quote where I said that.

If you follow any of my posts, you'll see that I have correctly identified dozens of reasons why people leave here and never return.

UNfair MM is definitely a main reason, but by no means is it even CLOSE to the only reason they leave.

 

Again. Spoken like a developer.

Are you ready to admit that you are a developer--or equivalent?

Or do we need to continue to pretend that you aren't?

 

Look, dude. Listen to me.

We are players actually telling you what we like and dislike about your game that you created.

You want to quote Vlogs from 5 years ago as to why this game isn't crap today? Go right ahead.

No one in this thread who has commented that MM needs to be fixed believes a word you say that it doesn't need fixing.

Not one word.

So then what exactly are you arguing? What is your angle or thought process?

 

Your general story of saying 'well, we had to do (update) because of (excuses), and we had to do (update) because of (excuses)' will never ever change the fact that here we are with a dwindling player base year after year--with you trying your best to maximize profits from those remaining, and attract new players--while still trying to disguise the (update) with (excuses) as necessity-driven instead of profit-driven.

I mean, really, you are creating fake players (bots) now to play the game. Let's let that sink in for a moment.

 

You can't attract and retain real people with real money to play this game, so you are going to try fake players--instead of fix a problem that real players have identified.

 

All the updates you 'carefully considered' long term, all the 'effect of ideas' you thought would make you more money, all the (updates) you thought would attract new players (and retain the ones that are still here) aren't working.

But instead of actually trying to fix MM--probably the biggest complaint of the players who remain--you've tried everything else BUT that. And failed.

 

Will you not actually consider making MM fair--using the suggestions provided here by real players--and see if THAT fixes some of your dwindling player base problem--instead of justifying (update) with (excuses)? I mean, the fact that you are even arguing with me about it shows how completely out of touch you are with a significant portion of your remaining player base.

 

Just fix it. You are a smart fellow. You can do it. I believe in you.

 

Look, starting from May Holidays - I started playing the game again (because nostalgia hit me). Before that; my last play was in 2021. Except for new skins and some fixes (which were 1) Minor 2) OP Augments 3) Lesser Number of Drones etc), I saw no MAJOR difference (especially MM - Which I was expecting the most during the time period)

In contrast, I started playing a few ( 2 or 3) games as well simultaneously - again during the same time period as I rejoined Tanki. They had changed a lot..... and a lot better in comparison than they were before.....

Conclusion: Devs' attitude towards the game matters a lot. The only thing I would suggest is to just wait. Only two possibilities: 1) Either the Game dies 2) The Game Devs become serious.
There is no point in wasting your energy on convincing devs about something which devs don't even care about. It's just a game and just let it fall under its own weight.

Edited June 17, 2023 by CaptainKiller

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/17/2023 at 4:47 AM, mjmj5558 said:

Here. You are denieing me, where i said that "I highly doubt that a significant amount of players left due to MM", thus, implicating that they did indeed leave due to MM.

I'm questioning your logic.

That you don't know why players have left--because you cannot ask them.

 

Btw, I wouldn't admit to being a developer here either.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Jeers4U
sarcasm reduction again

[Jeers4U 665]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:33 AM, CaptainKiller said:

There is no point in wasting your energy on convincing devs about something which devs don't even care about. It's just a game and just let it fall under its own weight.

I know. There's no point in helping anyone who does not wish help.

If Donald Trump was a game, tanki would be it.

It's sad and I'm not sure how that kind of attitude infects the people who work for tanki.

 

I predict the results of the survey are never published.

They're probably making excuses for its contents already.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Jeers4U

[AxelAfro 7]

I think we all know that we expressed the utmost contentment with everything going on in this game, as was foreseen by the initiators of the survey.

Edited June 17, 2023 by AxelAfro

[Fele177 0]

 I think the current rank gap in battles is too big and battles are unfair when you play with ppl that are 20 ranks higher than you or lower. This is the only game with this issue.  The idea is to reduce the rank gap to 5 ranks max.