How game balance works in Tanki Online (Full article now published!)

[Maf 32,306]

Read the full article here:

Dissected: The Grand Livestream

 

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Hi everyone!

 

On the 4th of July, Kasim (RU CM) and Hazel Rah (lead developer of Tanki) held a livestream, where they did something pleasantly surprising - answered every single one of the 228 questions submitted by players specifically for the livestream, taking a total of almost 3 hours to do it.

 

A full summary of the questions and answers has already been published in our newspaper, but I decided to dedicate a separate topic to one of the questions from the stream, for which Hazel's answer was particularly detailed: "How is game balance done in Tanki Online?"

 

So here’s how it works.

 

The 14 turrets are divided into 4 main range groups – long, medium, short and close range. You can probably guess which group each turret fits into, or just check this page on the Wiki.

 

Each of those groups decides the overall Damage Per Second (DPS) of the turrets within the group, so the DPS of turrets in the same group is quite similar, but it differs greatly between the four groups. It differs because turrets with greater range can deal with enemies in a larger area and thus have more opportunities to be useful and deal damage throughout the battle. Therefore they get lower DPS to give shorter range turrets a chance to beat them. For example, Twins has a higher DPS than Railgun, allowing it to beat Railgun when both tanks are standing still within firing range of one another. But in an actual battle the Railgun is able to slowly take out Twins from afar, as well as dodge its slow shots.

 

That's fairly straightforward, but within each range group the theoretical DPS (i.e., the number you get just using calculations) also differs among the turrets because each turret has its own specific abilities making it more (or less) effective under certain conditions. If a turret has splash damage, like Thunder, its actual DPS will be greater than a turret like Smoky on maps where tanks often stay in groups and there are lots of obstacles. But if there aren’t many opportunities to use splash damage, the DPS will be lower. The effectiveness of each turret also depends on a bunch of other factors, such as game mode, map, enemy player equipment and how well the player is able to use their turret’s abilities.

 

The fact that there are so many factors is why game balance is so difficult to accurately predict. It's impossible to see how players will use the turrets, so no amount of test server trials will show a turret's true place in a real battle.

 

For example, we (developers) thought Gauss would be too powerful so its splash damage radius was initially quite low, but gameplay quickly showed that it’s not enough, so the radius was increased. With Magnum it was the opposite – initially we made the splash radius massive because we thought there’s no way people will be able to aim accurately, but within a couple months a lot of people were landing shots right on target with incredible accuracy. There was an issue with Hammer too, which had to be nerfed because players were using it in a different way than expected (don’t remember how exactly).

 

It’s practically impossible to accurately balance an item “once and for all” because of all the different factors affecting it, as well as a constantly changing environment of different people and other gameplay updates. This is why we continuously observe the balance situation and make changes as necessary.

 

Overall, Hazel’s opinion on balance is: “In general it’s fine, but I’d like to change a few things”.

 

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The topic itself will most likely be merged into Let's Discuss Game Balance after a while, but it's here to comment on for the time being :)

 

I hope this will help clear up some of the rumours regarding why turrets seem to constantly switch between being completely useless and ridiculously overpowered.

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

Thank you very much for this!

[lssimo 1,559]

Gauss is OP, if devs decided to buff it based on their analysis and not for other reasons, is probably because the numbers are showing the many noobs using Gauss poorly.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Gauss is OP, if devs decided to buff it based on their analysis and not for other reasons, is probably because the numbers are showing the many noobs using Gauss poorly.

How is it OP?

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

The effectiveness of each turret also depends on a bunch of other factors, such as game mode, map, enemy player equipment and how well the player is able to use their turret’s abilities.

Does this include protection modules? 

 

When I make statistics for turret and alteration ideas, I think about how effective it would be against the other turrets in its range category. Then I think about how effective protection modules will be against it in all tiers. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

How is it OP?

I think it's mainly because of the max damage radius (when sniping) is about 8 or 9 metres.

 

Tried m1 on an alt and I didn't do too well but only because my Gauss skills are trash, but I managed to get 13 kills and 8 deaths without too much effort really.

 

If I can do that with Gauss, just think what a pro Gauss player could do if they put in the effort.

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

I think it's mainly because of the max damage radius (when sniping) is about 8 or 9 metres.

It is 20 metres. The "maximum splash damage range" for a Gauss sniping shot is 20 metres. The word "maximum" here can be confusing. It could mean the range at which 100% of the splash damage is retained or the range at which damage would be dealt to a target. 20 metres would be the latter and 2 metres would be the former. 

 

The average splash damage range for Gauss (which is what I think you're talking about) is 12 metres. You deal at least 90% of the total damage at 12 metres. That's a pretty large radius, in fact, it is the radius of Thunder's entire splash damage.

[Maf 32,306]

The average splash damage range for Gauss (which is what I think you're talking about) is 12 metres. You deal at least 90% of the total damage at 12 metres. That's a pretty large radius, in fact, it is the radius of Thunder's entire splash damage.

But it does require lock-on, and it comes with a longer reload afterwards. So it's not really OP.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

But it does require lock-on, and it comes with a longer reload afterwards. So it's not really OP.

But the enemy won't know that they're being locked on unless they look at it, and by that time, it's usually too late.

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

But it does require lock-on, and it comes with a longer reload afterwards. So it's not really OP.

But the enemy won't know that they're being locked on unless they look at it, and by that time, it's usually too late.

About it being OP, it's kinda iffy. You have a person silently locking onto you to possibly kill you at any time. And then it deals lots of damage if you're unprotected. And anyone in a 12-metre radius of you basically gets the same damage that you, the person whom the Gauss locked onto, did. 

 

And that's great and all, but then you have to actually aim, which is really hard if the target is constantly moving. And then you have to factor in if allies or even enemies get in front of the player you're targetting. Many times, I would almost lock onto this person but then an ally drives in front of me and my Gauss' visual is lost. Other times, They would get to cover right before I lock onto them. I had a battle the other day where my aim was disrupted 4 times in a row, either by a teammates or enemy getting in the way of the enemy I'm locking onto right on the edge of the last microseconds of locking on. It was super frustrating that it happened 4 times in a row. Overall, I'm getting great scores with it, but it feels too great. 

 

So far, the modes where it seems to shine is CP and on the red team in ASL battles. 

[Maf 32,306]

But the enemy won't know that they're being locked on unless they look at it, and by that time, it's usually too late.

Oh there's plenty more issues with lock-on even without the laser. If you're locking on, the enemy could get killed, you could get killed, they could go out of sight or your aim could get knocked off. There's too many ways for it to go bad, which is why I don't like lock-on turrets.

[Amagi 1,728]

To be honest, aside from Vulcan's general lack of DPs and a slight nerf needed here and there, I think the current meta is quite balanced, especially compared to previous iterations. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Oh there's plenty more issues with lock-on even without the laser. If you're locking on, the enemy could get killed, you could get killed, they could go out of sight or your aim could get knocked off. There's too many ways for it to go bad, which is why I don't like lock-on turrets.

 

 

I have to admit, arcade shots are a bit weak, so maybe that needs a buff.

 

 

To be honest, aside from Vulcan's general lack of DPs and a slight nerf needed here and there, I think the current meta is quite balanced, especially compared to previous iterations.

 

And then there is hunter, one of the most broken/OP hulls (statwise).

[lukey0 27,543]

So thats how they calculate balance, I thought it was on popularity.  :rolleyes: Jokes aside it is nice information to know.

[wolverine848 13,097]

But the enemy won't know that they're being locked on unless they look at it, and by that time, it's usually too late.

After shooting it leaves a trail - unlike smoky or Thunder - which require no lock-on.

 

Sure you might get the first shot off as a surprise, but then there's a long reload.  And as others have mentioned, in the fast game TO has become, there are not that many static targets.  Lock-on is lost quite often due to many factors (i get bumped by team-mates all the time :angry: )

 

If Gauss does not get the one-shot kill, enemies have options to survive. 

[XxStriker 519]

After shooting it leaves a trail - unlike smoky or Thunder - which require no lock-on.

 

Sure you might get the first shot off as a surprise, but then there's a long reload.  And as others have mentioned, in the fast game TO has become, there are not that many static targets.  Lock-on is lost quite often due to many factors (i get bumped by team-mates all the time :angry: )

 

If Gauss does not get the one-shot kill, enemies have options to survive. 

I only see the trail if I play on html5... On client it's invisible to me.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

After shooting it leaves a trail - unlike smoky or Thunder - which require no lock-on.

 

Sure you might get the first shot off as a surprise, but then there's a long reload.  And as others have mentioned, in the fast game TO has become, there are not that many static targets.  Lock-on is lost quite often due to many factors (i get bumped by team-mates all the time :angry: )

 

If Gauss does not get the one-shot kill, enemies have options to survive.

 

It may leave a trail, but it's gone a split second later.

[wolverine848 13,097]

It may leave a trail, but it's gone a split second later.

That's enough to (possibly) reveal it's location.

 

And the rest... ?

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

That's enough to (possibly) reveal it's location.

 

And the rest... ?

You can also look at where it hit you. If it hit you on the back left side of your tank, then you'd know it's behind you. You can turn around immediately and spot them, unless they killed you with the shot. Even then, you can raise your in-game camera to the highest point when respawning to see if you catch a glimpse of them. All of this can lead to great awareness skills and knowing where to avoid and where to go. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

That's enough to (possibly) reveal it's location.

 

And the rest... ?

They'd know the general direction of where the shot came from. By the time they look in that direction, the Gauss would've either killed them or went into hiding.

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

They'd know the general direction of where the shot came from. By the time they look in that direction, the Gauss would've either killed them or went into hiding.

Not unless you're quick on the draw. If I'm alone and I get shot, I immediately (less than 2 seconds) turn around and scout the area for them. 

 

And if you know what direction the shot came from, you can look around to see where they could have possibly hid. If you were shot at an angle of 240 degrees clockwise, you can look back at that same angle and see what cover the enemy might have had, Works every time for me. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Not unless you're quick on the draw. If I'm alone and I get shot, I immediately (less than 2 seconds) turn around and scout the area for them. 

 

And if you know what direction the shot came from, you can look around to see where they could have possibly hid. If you were shot at an angle of 240 degrees clockwise, you can look back at that same angle and see what cover the enemy might have had, Works every time for me.

 

Ok say that you find it, good job. So what are you gonna do about it? It's likely to have the high ground with cover, not to mention that 2 seconds head start to fall back, so flat out shooting it won't work unless you're nearby.

[u812ic 1,629]

Shaft didn't have a laser when it first came out. Players complained, Devs listened and added a laser. I was using Shaft at the time and was getting some great kills. But after the laser was added, that count went way down. I hope Devs don't add a laser to Gauss.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Shaft didn't have a laser when it first came out. Players complained, Devs listened and added a laser. I was using Shaft at the time and was getting some great kills. But after the laser was added, that count went way down. I hope Devs don't add a laser to Gauss.

Um, the laser for shaft doesn't appear until it is nearly fully charged from the enemy's end of the screen.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Shaft didn't have a laser when it first came out. Players complained, Devs listened and added a laser. I was using Shaft at the time and was getting some great kills. But after the laser was added, that count went way down. I hope Devs don't add a laser to Gauss.

Gauss does not do enough damage to warrant a laser.  Would ruin the turret.