Express your blind absolute rage of the overpowered Hunter Tank

[Zekrom 316]

I'm curious, how can you tell by how much supplies per hour a person is using?

a/b

a = amount of supplies used

b = number of hours played

[Mosad 962]

I'm curious, how can you tell by how much supplies per hour a person is using?

I think he is calculating it from the player's profile ratings.

Like this 

 

 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

• Yes, Hunter can disable it. But, like I said before, a lot of people are huddled under it. The Hunter can't destroy all of them, unless they are lucky and a stock Thunder or a Compact Fuel Tanks Firebird.

 

Even if the hunter doesn't kill them before the stun effects wear off, that'll be a lot of people that are left without the safety of their supplies, making them easy kills, if no dictator with OD ready is nearby to save them.

[simpleone 10]

Forgot about the extra bit of stuff hornet did. Yes, hitting throgh your own protection on all tanks is nice. etc

 

Wolverine... look, from my perspective its not even about being rude or not. You simply don't want to read? ... Either you are embarassed that I called you out on very poor arguments, or you have nothing left to say. This is fine. You are almost like fake news. You say writing more doesn't improve my position? ... ?????? ... um. Of course it does. Wolverine lets just stop out conversations. I think you are one of the people I've seen write outrageous requests and make ridiculous comments and just forgot about it, but I get that if you can't read and respond, and just attack me? Then yeah, there will be no further conversation. Yes I'm angry... like it's just a game and it doesn't matter I don't lose sleep over it. But the title of the post literally says to express your blind rage. See how I wrote a bit extra? Don't waste my time. You tried to write, it still didn't add up and I clearly wrecked you into a corner. If you have something to say that says: hunter has a lot, but here are 6 simple things that easily help you deal with it, like the person right after us tried to write to me, then I'll start giving you more credit.

 

I agree Titan and hornet, even viking have some nice tricks... but meh. Hunter just seems above them all.

 

I mean, specifically what set me off, is when I found out the force drop the rugby and flag from your tank after stunning you. This is clearly overboard. In team games where your team is ill equipped to handle 3 opposing hunters who know hwat htey are doing. You just lose 5-0 in rugby. Quick game. but ugh. Is painful.

[Zekrom 316]

Even if the hunter doesn't kill them before the stun effects wear off, that'll be a lot of people that are left without the safety of their supplies, making them easy kills, if no dictator with OD ready is nearby to save them.

How you can still die after you activate Hunter OD (and freeze 8 people):

 

1. If you get too close to a mammoth with OD activated

2. If an enemy wasp comes and releases its OD 2 seconds after you activate your OD

3. If you are in JGR mode and the juggernaut activates striker mode at over 40 metres and locks on to a nearby titan and you can't escape.

4. If an enemy dictator with all supplies activated comes at the last second of the hunter OD and uses its compact tanks on you. Oh yeah, and it's an M4 firebird. And the tanker happens to be a legend 40 who has the Spectrum A module (lol)

5. When a viking with OD that the OD got activated 1 second before you froze them. But you survived, because it was an M2 isida. And you have lifeguard drone. Then it gets un-frozen and an enemy dictator that got frozen activates its OD and the isida kills you.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Zekrom

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

How you can still die after you activate Hunter OD (and freeze 8 people)

 

2. If an enemy wasp comes and releases its OD 2 seconds after you activate your OD

Impossible. It's at least 3 seconds after the zap, not the activation. So that = at least 4 seconds after the activation. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

How you can still die after you activate Hunter OD (and freeze 8 people):

 

1. If you get too close to a mammoth with OD activated

2. If an enemy wasp comes and releases its OD 2 seconds after you activate your OD

3. If you are in JGR mode and the juggernaut activates striker mode at over 40 metres and locks on to a nearby titan and you can't escape.

4. If an enemy dictator with all supplies activated comes at the last second of the hunter OD and uses its compact tanks on you. Oh yeah, and it's an M4 firebird. And the tanker happens to be a legend 40 who has the Spectrum A module (lol)

5. When a viking with OD that the OD got activated 1 second before you froze them. But you survived, because it was an M2 isida. And you have lifeguard drone. Then it gets un-frozen and an enemy dictator that got frozen activates its OD and the isida kills you.

If the hunter dies but still manages to get you with EMP, then it did it's job. It's teammates will take it from there.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Forgot about the extra bit of stuff hornet did. Yes, hitting throgh your own protection on all tanks is nice. etc

 

 

 

Wolverine... look, from my perspective its not even about being rude or not. You simply don't want to read? ... Either you are embarassed that I called you out on very poor arguments, or you have nothing left to say. This is fine. You are almost like fake news. You say writing more doesn't improve my position? ... ?????? ... um. Of course it does. Wolverine lets just stop out conversations. I think you are one of the people I've seen write outrageous requests and make ridiculous comments and just forgot about it, but I get that if you can't read and respond, and just attack me? Then yeah, there will be no further conversation. Yes I'm angry... like it's just a game and it doesn't matter I don't lose sleep over it. But the title of the post literally says to express your blind rage. See how I wrote a bit extra? Don't waste my time. You tried to write, it still didn't add up and I clearly wrecked you into a corner. If you have something to say that says: hunter has a lot, but here are 6 simple things that easily help you deal with it, like the person right after us tried to write to me, then I'll start giving you more credit.

 

I agree Titan and hornet, even viking have some nice tricks... but meh. Hunter just seems above them all.

 

I mean, specifically what set me off, is when I found out the force drop the rugby and flag from your tank after stunning you. This is clearly overboard. In team games where your team is ill equipped to handle 3 opposing hunters who know hwat htey are doing. You just lose 5-0 in rugby. Quick game. but ugh. Is painful.

 

 

You see what you want to see - nothing I post will change that.  ALL ODs are OP in their own way.  You just need to set aside your anger and figure out a way to deal with them.

 

And... in my first post (#5) I pointed out about 5 weaknesses of the OD. You want me to detail how you should exploit them as well?

 

As for the flag return - that's not Hunters fault.  In CTF it just forces the carrier to drop the flag. But for RGBY Assault the Devs deliberately want the flag returned immediately.  Go complain to Hazel about that.

Edited September 1, 2019 by wolverine848

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

You see what you want to see - nothing I post will change that.  ALL ODs are OP in their own way.  You just need to set aside your anger and figure out a way to deal with them.

 

And... in my first post (#5) I pointed out about 5 weaknesses of the OD. You want me to detail how you should exploit them as well?

 

As for the flag return - that's not Hunters fault.  In CTF it just forces the carrier to drop the flag. But for RGBY the Devs deliberately want the flag returned immediately.  Go complain to Hazel about that.

When you say RGBY, I'm assuming you meant ASL, am I correct?

[wolverine848 13,097]

When you say RGBY, I'm assuming you meant ASL, am I correct?

Errr... yes...  :unsure:   Assault... R-G-B-Y ... Assault.

[Initiate 1,306]

You have a smoky and come around a corner and encounter a Titan Ricco.  Do you zap it?  cuz at that range Titan Ricco will smoke your smoky.  So you zap it. Stun it for 3 seconds.  Even IF you have DD handy, smoky is not guaranteed to kill a Titan of same m-level in 3 seconds.  Guess what happens when that 3 seconds is over?

Um, yeah, with an available RK and an activated DA and DD, guess what happens? Even if you don't manage to kill the Titan in 3 seconds, unless you're an absolute noob you should easily be able to kill the Titan, no problem.

[Initiate 1,306]

 

Don't try to debate with wolverine, he either has irrational and/or irrelevant points, or resorts to insults.

 

To be clear, I'm not taking sides in this debate, but just warning you.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Um, yeah, with an available RK and an activated DA and DD, guess what happens? Even if you don't manage to kill the Titan in 3 seconds, unless you're an absolute noob you should easily be able to kill the Titan, no problem.

 

If the Titan is still alive after those 3 seconds it activates Dome and Hunter is done.

 Titan is being healed at 200 hp/second.  That is higher than the avg damage the smoky will be doing - even in your best-case-scenario for Hunter with DD available.

 

Maybe you can provide some figures that show otherwise...

 

 

Where did I insult you?

Edited September 1, 2019 by wolverine848

[Initiate 1,306]

I'm just going to go through and list all the fallacies.

 

Balanced?  Probably.  OP?   Hardly.

 

Does not do ANY damage to enemies - at all.  None. Zilch. Zero.  Without DD handy many turrets struggle to kill medium or heavy hulls in 3 seconds.

Red herring (kind of, this one is loose).

 

But it still incapacitates them and completely ruins an attack. With the amount of supplies high ranks use, once you are stunned and left unable to use supplies for 30 seconds, you might as well stand still and wait to be killed so that you spawn fresh.

False analogy. 

 

Dude. Wolverine. Who are you. This was in no way a counter to my post. In my mind here is me and you:

 

Simpleone. Hunter is a problem!

 

 

Wolverine. 5 things... none of it matters. Oh! But the one thing... um it cripples everything. But only 2 things it screws the overdrives 2.

Straw man. He didn't actually say that none of the 5 things matter. From the way you talk it would seem that you want Hunter to not have an OD at all...

 

Wonder if simpleone considers Titan Dome OP.  I know for a fact a lot of people do.  Guess what hull simpleone uses the most...

Tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy) 

 

It's almost like you don't understand the concept of Rock-Paper-Scissors.  What's ironic is that you cry about Hunter - seem to be raging actually - but your most-used hull is Titan.  Yeah Titan, with that weak, crappy dome.

Ad hominem and Tu quoque.

 

Making a longer wall of text does not improve your position - just makes you look desperate in addition to angry.  Why so angry?

Straw man.

 

As for the flag return - that's not Hunters fault.  In CTF it just forces the carrier to drop the flag. But for RGBY Assault the Devs deliberately want the flag returned immediately.  Go complain to Hazel about that.

Name one thing in the game that the devs don't want, and that complaining to anyone but the devs will help with.

Not a fallacy, but a hilarious argument lol.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Initiate

[wolverine848 13,097]

I'm just going to go through and list all the fallacies.

 

 

 

Red herring (kind of, this one is loose).

 

Slippery slope - again this is rather loose :)

 

 

Straw man. He didn't actually say that none of the 5 things matter. From the way you talk it would seem that you want Hunter to not have an OD at all...

 

Tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy) 

 

Ad hominem and Tu quoque.

 

Straw man.

 

Name one thing in the game that the devs don't want, and that complaining to anyone but the devs will help with.

Not a fallacy, but a hilarious argument lol.

 

 

Wait - fallacies? (in your opinion) - and some are "loose" and some are not even quotes from me.  I don't see your point.

 

And as for the Titan vs Hunter example, it would be great if you can show where my math is off.

 

Regarding the Assault-flag-loss issue... that's not confined to Hunter.  If a mammoth with OD touches you flag instantly goes back.  If a hornet-Rail kills you because you have no defense - flag goes back.  It's not a Hunter problem - it's the battle-mode problem.

Edited September 1, 2019 by wolverine848

[Initiate 1,306]

Wait - fallacies? (in your opinion) - and some are "loose" and some are not even quotes from me.  I don't see your point.

 

And as for the Titan vs Hunter example, it would be great if you can show where my math is off.

 

Regarding the Assault-flag-loss issue... that's not confined to Hunter.  If a mammoth with OD touches you flag instantly goes back.  If a hornet-Rail kills you because you have no defense - flag goes back.  It's not a Hunter problem - it's the battle-mode problem.

You think everything I say is to debunk you? xD Absolutely no point, but it's a fun exercise.

 

Here's the math (assuming we're dealing with M4s here, and both Smoky/Hunter and Rico/Titan have full health and full ammo, and there are no protections).

 

Rico M4 deals an average of 350 hp per shot, while Smoky M4 deals an average of 530 hp per shot. However, Smoky has a (rounded) 20% chance of a critical shot, meaning that roughly 1 in 5 shots is dealing 800 hp. 

 

Using the above figures (remember, since there is a damage spread (and also the possibility of no critical shot), this figure could be close to 600 hp different from what actually happens, but I'm using averages), that means that in 7 seconds (the time needed to release 5 shots) Smoky deals 2920 hp in damage (530 x 4 + 800, assuming critical happens once every five shots (20%)). On the other hand, Rico deals 4900 in the same amount of time. Obviously, especially considering that Hunter has less hp than Titan, the Rico would win drugless and ODless. However, now we need to take drugs and ODs into account. 

 

Assuming that both tanks have full drugs with an available RK as they start battling, here's what would happen.

 

They would see each other. DD and DA cancel out, so each tank deals drugless damage for one second. Smoky reload is 1.4 seconds, so that means that Smoky deals 530 damage on the Titan, while the Titan deals 700 damage on the Hunter. This is just for one second, since that's how long it takes to put Hunter's OD into effect. After that, the Smoky shoots twice more while the Titan is immobile for three seconds, each shot dealing roughly 1060 damage (530 with DD against no DA). So to recap this paragraph, by the time Hunter's OD is done, the Titan has sustained damages of 2650 hp (1060 x 2 + 530), and the Hunter has sustained damages of 700 hp (350 x 2).

 

But the Titan is not killed yet. Titan has 4,000 hp, so the Smoky still has to do 1,350 hp of damage to kill it. On the other hand, the Hunter has 3,000 hp, which means the Rico has to do 2,300 hp of damage to kill it. But this is where the drugs come in. After the OD is not in effect, the Smoky/Hunter has DA and DD AND an RK, while the Titan/Rico has zero drugs. "Zlitch," none. So that means that from now on, Smoky deals an average of 1060 every 1.4 seconds, while the Rico deals 350 damage in 1 second.

 

Let's continue.

 

Smoky has so far shot 3 times, and has elapsed 4.2 seconds. In the next 2.8 seconds, it will deal one more regular shot (if it conforms to the percentages) and one critical shot. That means that it deals 2660 damage (in the 2.8 seconds after the OD ends). On the other hand, the Rico will deal an average of 350 hp per second (one shot deals 175 hp because of the DA, and Rico shoots 2 times every second), meaning that it will deal just under 900 hp of damage before the Smoky kills it. 

 

At the end of the exchange, the Hunter has sustained damages of 1,600 hp, and the Titan is killed.  The Hunter uses it's available RK, and continues in the battle, like nothing ever happened (well, it did use it's OD).

 

Note, this exchange took place over a period of 7 seconds. It assumes M4 equipment with no drones, no protections, and full drugs. This situation (not interfered with by anyone else, full health and drugs at the start of the exchange, and no protection or drones) would probably not ever happen in MM. This example also uses averages and percentages, but it is completely random whether you make high damage numbers or low damage numbers. As another note, even if the Smoky did not end up dealing any critical damage in those 5 shots, it would kill the Titan regardless. 

 

If you see a mistake in my math there, feel free to point it out, but the margin of error is so large that it is almost certain that the Titan would get killed.

 

That right there is math.

That right there is conclusive.

 

HBTY out.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

You think everything I say is to debunk you? xD Absolutely no point, but it's a fun exercise.

 

Here's the math (assuming we're dealing with M4s here, and both Smoky/Hunter and Rico/Titan have full health and full ammo, and there are no protections).

 

Rico M4 deals an average of 350 hp per shot, while Smoky M4 deals an average of 530 hp per shot. However, Smoky has a (rounded) 20% chance of a critical shot, meaning that roughly 1 in 5 shots is dealing 800 hp. 

 

Using the above figures (remember, since there is a damage spread (and also the possibility of no critical shot), this figure could be close to 600 hp different from what actually happens, but I'm using averages), that means that in 7 seconds (the time needed to release 5 shots) Smoky deals 2920 hp in damage (530 x 4 + 800, assuming critical happens once every five shots (20%)). On the other hand, Rico deals 4900 in the same amount of time. Obviously, especially considering that Hunter has less hp than Titan, the Rico would win drugless and ODless. However, now we need to take drugs and ODs into account. 

 

Assuming that both tanks have full drugs with an available RK as they start battling, here's what would happen.

 

They would see each other. DD and DA cancel out, so each tank deals drugless damage for one second. Smoky reload is 1.4 seconds, so that means that Smoky deals 530 damage on the Titan, while the Titan deals 700 damage on the Hunter. This is just for one second, since that's how long it takes to put Hunter's OD into effect. After that, the Smoky shoots twice more while the Titan is immobile for three seconds, each shot dealing roughly 1060 damage (530 with DD against no DA). So to recap this paragraph, by the time Hunter's OD is done, the Titan has sustained damages of 2650 hp (1060 x 2 + 530), and the Hunter has sustained damages of 700 hp (350 x 2).

 

But the Titan is not killed yet. Titan has 4,000 hp, so the Smoky still has to do 1,350 hp of damage to kill it. On the other hand, the Hunter has 3,000 hp, which means the Rico has to do 2,300 hp of damage to kill it. But this is where the drugs come in. After the OD is not in effect, the Smoky/Hunter has DA and DD AND an RK, while the Titan/Rico has zero drugs. "Zlitch," none. So that means that from now on, Smoky deals an average of 1060 every 1.4 seconds, while the Rico deals 350 damage in 1 second.

 

Let's continue.

 

Smoky has so far shot 3 times, and has elapsed 4.2 seconds. In the next 2.8 seconds, it will deal one more regular shot (if it conforms to the percentages) and one critical shot. That means that it deals 2660 damage (in the 2.8 seconds after the OD ends). On the other hand, the Rico will deal an average of 350 hp per second (one shot deals 175 hp because of the DA, and Rico shoots 2 times every second), meaning that it will deal just under 900 hp of damage before the Smoky kills it. 

 

At the end of the exchange, the Hunter has sustained damages of 1,600 hp, and the Titan is killed.  The Hunter uses it's available RK, and continues in the battle, like nothing ever happened (well, it did use it's OD).

 

Note, this exchange took place over a period of 7 seconds. It assumes M4 equipment with no drones, no protections, and full drugs. This situation (not interfered with by anyone else, full health and drugs at the start of the exchange, and no protection or drones) would probably not ever happen in MM. This example also uses averages and percentages, but it is completely random whether you make high damage numbers or low damage numbers. As another note, even if the Smoky did not end up dealing any critical damage in those 5 shots, it would kill the Titan regardless. 

 

If you see a mistake in my math there, feel free to point it out, but the margin of error is so large that it is almost certain that the Titan would get killed.

 

That right there is math.

That right there is conclusive.

 

HBTY out.

 

 

Titan Dome?

[Initiate 1,306]

You have a smoky and come around a corner and encounter a Titan Rico.  Do you zap it? Because at that range Titan Rico will smoke your smoky. So you zap it. Stun it for 3 seconds. Even IF you have DD handy, smoky is not guaranteed to kill a Titan of same m-level in 3 seconds. Guess what happens when that 3 seconds is over?

Titan Dome?

No Titan Dome was mentioned in your example. Moot point. In your previous example with Viking/Twins, then yes, of course the Twins would kill you. But when there's no OD, even against a shorter range turret such as Rico it will win. You probably knew this, but you asked me for my math, and I wrote it.

[Guest]

IMO overdrives need actual disadvantages to make them interesting. (not just a 1 second delay) In their current state, OD's are just noobtubes (weapons/mechanics that are powerful but don't require much skill to use) that are just spammed 24/7 along with drugs and drones. Sure, there's a bit of skill of when you use an OD/supply/drone but it pales in comparison to 2013-16 gameplay.

 

Case in point: I used to use Rico/wasp a lot. I figured out that it would take 4 shots to kill an m0 light hull, and 5 to kill an m1 light hull without DD. Now, it's just keep firing with Rico/titan or Freeze/wasp and slamming 1 at the right time until the other player dies.

[wolverine848 13,097]

No Titan Dome was mentioned in your example. Moot point. In your previous example with Viking/Twins, then yes, of course the Twins would kill you. But when there's no OD, even against a shorter range turret such as Rico it will win. You probably knew this, but you asked me for my math, and I wrote it.

You originally responded to my post that had this in it...

"Even IF you have DD handy, smoky is not guaranteed to kill a Titan of same m-level in 3 seconds.  Guess what happens when that 3 seconds is over?"

 

We were comparing the power of ODs.  Why would the Hunter have OD but not Titan?  Titan having OD (as well) is hardly moot.

 

Please re-do your math but account for Titan Dome so we are comparing apples to apples.

Also - post #38 - a response to you - specifically mentions the Titan dome.

Edited September 1, 2019 by wolverine848

[Zekrom 316]

 

Get autocannon alteration then with DD if you're the hunter

[wolverine848 13,097]

Get autocannon alteration then with DD if you're the hunter

I have that alt, equip it 90% of the time.  Really only shines when targets are far away - since the crits have no damage loss over distance.

DPM versus stock is quite similar.

[lssimo 1,559]

You forgot the Hunters with Speed Hack. Not the noob hackers that drive very fast, but the ones that go fast enough to put even mods in doubt.

 

And you also forgot the Hunters with Ignore Hack. They stun you and then drive under you and go away with the flag.

 

No need to rage, just accept the fact that the game has many issues and that those things are out of your control.

 

Then even if devs wanted to fix something they can't because they have other priorities, like the HTML 5 version, which likely means no balance changes until then.

[Guest]

Used correctly, a single hunter can disable all the tanks on the Red team on Noise.

 

If that's not OP, I don't know what is.

[XxStriker 519]

Used correctly, a single hunter can disable all the tanks on the Red team on Noise.

 

If that's not OP, I don't know what is.

Magnum can disable all of blue team in noise... And there are always 3-4 camped up. Don't even need ODs.