Team Juggernaut in the game!

[Ninja 10,468]

Well that's not fair to those that like to play jug mode but don't like to be the jug.

Why would you do that instead of TDM? Missions can be changed (even for free on mobile) when you get them.

[lssimo 1,559]

Why would you do that instead of TDM? Missions can be changed (even for free on mobile) when you get them.

The Jug mode is more like CTF and RBG than TDM, unless you want to just TDM.

 

Others may not want to be the Jug because they are not good with it, because their GS is weak, because they prefer killing enemy Jugs, because they prefer healing the Jug, because they like to camp and kill the noobs trying to kill or heal the Jug, and so on.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Why would you do that instead of TDM? Missions can be changed (even for free on mobile) when you get them.

What if you have 2 crappy missions and JUG is one or both of them?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Why would you do that instead of TDM? Missions can be changed (even for free on mobile) when you get them.

 

You know even know how hard it is to get into a TDM battle versus a jug battle?

 

I could get into a jug battle in about 2 minutes at most where as it would take me up to 12 to 16 minutes just to get into a TDM battle.

 

The only way I could get into a TDM battle in less than a minute is if I click the "quick battle button" and even then it could still put me in a jug battle.

 

 

The Jug mode is more like CTF and RBG than TDM, unless you want to just TDM.

Others may not want to be the Jug because they are not good with it, because their GS is weak, because they prefer killing enemy Jugs, because they prefer healing the Jug, because they like to camp and kill the noobs trying to kill or heal the Jug, and so on.

Or if they don't like the turrets or don't want to be at a huge disadvantage against normal players.

[Ninja 10,468]

 

You know even know how hard it is to get into a TDM battle versus a jug battle?

 

I could get into a jug battle in about 2 minutes at most where as it would take me up to 12 to 16 minutes just to get into a TDM battle.

 

The only way I could get into a TDM battle in less than a minute is if I click the "quick battle button" and even then it could still put me in a jug battle.

 

What times do you play? Never takes me more than 40 seconds to get into any mode at any time of the day.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

What times do you play? Never takes me more than 40 seconds to get into any mode at any time of the day.

Right after server restart. Why?

 

Doesn't change the fact that it takes a lot longer to get into a TDM battle than it does to get into a jug battle.

[wolverine848 13,097]

What times do you play? Never takes me more than 40 seconds to get into any mode at any time of the day.

You must be special then...

 

cuz 1 to 2 hours after server restart it can take me 3 or 4 attempts at 45 seconds per attempt to get into any battle not CTF.

[Ninja 10,468]

 

 

 

Again, back to the point of devs probably wont spend their time developing features that would be used by so few, these are very specific situations which dont effect the vast majority of players. Most players play Juggernaut because they want to be the Juggernaut.

 

Sadly I would expect going forward playing at server restarts is going to get slower as more and more players leave the game.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Again, back to the point of devs probably wont spend their time developing features that would be used by so few, these are very specific situations which dont effect the vast majority of players. Most players play Juggernaut because they want to be the Juggernaut.

 

We don't even know that it'll be used by so few. It could be used by so many.

 

We also don't know if many play jug because they want to be jug. It could just as well be that they just like to play the game mode.

[lssimo 1,559]

We don't even know that it'll be used by so few. It could be used by so many.

 

We also don't know if many play jug because they want to be jug. It could just as well be that they just like to play the game mode.

I think e sat next to VikingXR for far too long.

Edited October 1, 2019 by lssimo

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

One thing that has come to my attention is that players are still treating the Juggernaut exactly like they would have with the Solo Juggernaut? What do I mean by that? 

 

They save their Overdrives (even when on very low HP) until they are about to kill an enemy, most of the time with the salvo. In Solo JGR, that would have been optimal, but I have to constantly remind teammates that kills do not charge their Overdrives. It hurts real bad seeing the team's strongest Juggernaut stay at 20% HP with their Overdrive ready since 10 seconds ago, waiting to fully lock on, only to be one-shotted by a Railgun or Shaft. 

 

They need to give out more in-depth information about these things. Say it in the V-Log or something. V-Logs these weeks have been short. Extend it a little by giving tips straight from the developer team's mouths. I can argue that their ambiguity could (or may have already) result(ed) in a more social playerbase where players gather the information from experience and then pass it on to others, but we can't really tell. 

 

Hopefully in the coming weeks, this phenomenon diminishes as more people get a hang of the mode and its mechanic interactions. 

[CabbageRoll 3,018]

I am forced to play juggernaut because of missions, not because i want to be the juggernaut. Also you have opportunity to just leave the juggernaut to die and have a chance to be juggernaut. NO ONE IS EVEN TRYING TO DO THAT. Juggernaut is trash, average and even below average compared to altered turrets destroying it in short-range 1v1.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

I am forced to play juggernaut because of missions, not because i want to be the juggernaut. Also you have opportunity to just leave the juggernaut to die and have a chance to be juggernaut. NO ONE IS EVEN TRYING TO DO THAT. Juggernaut is trash, average and even below average compared to altered turrets destroying it in short-range 1v1.

LOL that's why I prefer Solo Juggernaut. 'Least you don't have to play it because no mission for it. And no noobz sabotagin' left and right.

[Stringy.Cat.Tacos 25]

As I've said before, Juggernaut in missions throws a real monkey wrench into the mix.  I tried to get into 3 DM matches to complete a mission.  I started two hours before restart and finished an hour after restart..so three hours total.  Here are just a few of the "you timed out" screens.  There were many many more that I didn't take screen shots of or didn't bother to crop.  I bet I tried to get into a DM match 30 times if not more. 

 

Juggernaut is a fun mode, butr why, oh why in any sane universe would you guys make it a mission mode when it wasn't one before.  Before we had a few thousand more players and Juggy was not included in missions.  Now we have significantly less players and you dilute the player pool with TeamJuggy.  This makes no sense at all.  It leads to longer wait times, especially in off hours and widens the rank brackets when you do finally get into a match.

 

Take Juggernaut out of daily missions.

 

it's one image...and a spoiler negates the impact of the entire post.  I will always use spoilers when I can, but sometimes they detract from the point being made...other times they help a point by adding suspense and curiosity.  Thanks for your understanding.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Stringy.Cat.Tacos
Kindly use spoiler when posting more than image.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

 

 

 

[lssimo 1,559]

PRO Jug in the PRO team and noob Jug in the noob team.

 

No wonder the number of peak players went back down pretty quick.

[Thomas11239 366]

but Ninja.. why are players leaving the game? I do realize that new players must find it hard to compete against experienced players at low rank accounts with supplies but why are players at higher ranks leaving the game?

Also, I barely see any new players ingame. When I started a few of my alts, at least 80% of recruits were already turning turrets and drugging like junkies

[Ninja 10,468]

but Ninja.. why are players leaving the game? I do realize that new players must find it hard to compete against experienced players at low rank accounts with supplies but why are players at higher ranks leaving the game?

The biggest reason is that the game has not been advertised properly since 2015, when it the return on investment for advertising wasnt paying.

 

Currently the developers do not feel that the game is suitable to advertise, there are too many bugs and glitches even with simply logging in which would drive away any players who click an advert.

 

Once the HTML5 version is fully developed and the game works seamlessly then developers will begin to consider advertising.

 

Apparently the number of players leaving has actually stayed constant since 2015, its just that the number of players joining the game has fallen drastically.

 

---

I personally hope that there will be a resurgence in players if advertising begins again, but it could be that the game is in its final 5 or so years, who knows. The gaming market is too competitive to predict.

[Viking4s 10,791]

Why in the world does wide rank range mean there are more players in queue?...that is absurd.  Wide rank brackets in a battle happen when MM does not have enough players of equivalent rank in queue to generate a battle...so MM looks further higher rank and lower ranked players.  And when the player pool is low or thinned out (as in the addition of an entire new mode) you get situations where there are M0 players against very advance M2 players and that is a discouraging senario.  It also just makes churn since most of the low rank players will just leave the battle and thereby waste their time.

You said that if MM does not have enough players of equivalent rank in queue to generate a battle it will enlarge the range. If it was true at peak time you would have seen more battle with only one rank. I have not seen any (except legend). Further more the developer have specifically said that they create battle with a large spectrum of rank (except legend, and some ranks below) because it is more entertaining. So you will find almost all battles with broad range rank (almost because legend battles).

 

As far as I know, each combat mode option in the battle menu have their own queue. They might be some cross over with the quick battle QB thought, either it splits any player into each of different combat mode or take a certain amount within a specific time frame and stack it wit the next battle mode queue. It doesn't really matter here, only the outcome which is that you get into a battle quicker. On the other hand if you queue in DM and less popular combat mode the waiting time will increase too. When the waiting time is above 3 minutes, well you already experienced that when you play around the 2am UTC. It was the problem I faced when trying to play the JGR solo mode after 22 UTC, it was impossible

and that is a learning that TO probably took in consideration when creating TJR by adding specific Mission of TJR and adding it to the QB.

 

As QB has all the team battle mode including Juggernaut it make more likely to get a TJR battle than a DM.  Also, as you pointed out, the TJR Mission also help to have a bigger queue for TJR, and that was my point, I did nt realise that you were talking about a queue for DM battles. 

Yes DM is now the less played battle so it would be difficult to play at off-peak time, while before it was JGR. 

The hype about TJR is quite high at the moment, but it won't last long, so the sky would look better for finding a DM battle late at night.

 

More battles mode means thinner queue per battle mode. This is probably why TJR replaces JGR. I think it is a good idea to have some new mode to keep the player playing tanki. 

There are other possible options to help the player at off-peak with MM. You should try to think about what they could be beside removing TJR and TJR missions fr all. I think that battles with less players than 8v8 (x16 for DM) would help. Changing the Mission objective to any mode for late player could be another.

 

MM is definitely better then no MM, but at off-peak it is not suitable.

[Stringy.Cat.Tacos 25]

The biggest reason is that the game has not been advertised properly since 2015, when it the return on investment for advertising wasnt paying.

 

Currently the developers do not feel that the game is suitable to advertise, there are too many bugs and glitches even with simply logging in which would drive away any players who click an advert.

 

Once the HTML5 version is fully developed and the game works seamlessly then developers will begin to consider advertising.

 

Apparently the number of players leaving has actually stayed constant since 2015, its just that the number of players joining the game has fallen drastically.

 

---

I personally hope that there will be a resurgence in players if advertising begins again, but it could be that the game is in its final 5 or so years, who knows. The gaming market is too competitive to predict.

It is extremely obvious why there has been such a player loss.  I've watched through several years worth of toxic updates as huge numbers of players left the game after every major "improvement"  The biggest percentage of loss came immediately following the disaster that is now a fixture and that is MatchMaking.  MM and all the minor toxic updates to implement MM pretty much threw Tanki into the nosedive it is now in.

 

The Dev team didn't care about the huge loss of players because they were focused on increasing profit and the bottom line.  I believe they were very successful at coercing freebie players into become buyers.  It is not hard to tell that there is a much much higher percentage of buyers in the game now then ever before.  I can't slight management for that since it is a business after all, but I do believe they could have accomplished the same thing without damaging the game as much as they have.

 

Tanki shed about 40% of their players within a couple of months of MM.  Lesser, but still very unpopular updates tend to cause a 25% to 30% loss each time they are implemented.  It is easy to see if you wish.  Look up the patchnotes and or history of updates and then read a few of the thousands of angry posts on this forum complaining and cajoling Tanki Dev trying to get them to come to their senses.   Each update has caused major loss of players.

 

Over the course of several years worth of MM based updates (the downward spiral pretty much started with the paint separation), Tanki has lost more than an unbelievable 100,000 players.  Contemplate that for a moment...over 100,000 players gone!  And that doesn't include China or the Latin servers.  China has been virtually shut down for months now and the Latin servers have only about 1000 players at peak times...for most of the day they can't even break 500 and for a few hours around restart they get around 25 players. (I expect the Latin servers will be closed soon and players absorbed into the EU/RU servers).

 

But none of this matters to the Devs because their bottom line has increased.  If they are making more money, are they not making the right decisions for Tanki?  As much as I hate what they have done to the game, they must be given credit for their business model. 

 

The big question is whether it can last.  With HTML5 they may start advertising again and generate organic growth...it would only be a minor adjustment to secure low ranks for real newbies...no daily missions, no stars, no wars, no golds, no kits, maybe even no MUs,,,basically you grind your way up to rank 5 or 6...by then the newbie is ready for the frying pan and the alt account pros wouldn't bother much with low ranks any more.  Organic growth in Tanki. 

 

Plus Tanki is working on a completely new game...at a glance, it seems to be Fortnite-esk

Edited October 2, 2019 by Stringy.Cat.Tacos

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

It is extremely obvious why there has been such a player loss.  I've watched through several years worth of toxic updates as huge numbers of players left the game after every major "improvement"  The biggest percentage of loss came immediately following the disaster that is now a fixture and that is MatchMaking.  MM and all the minor toxic updates to implement MM pretty much threw Tanki into the nosedive it is now in.

 

The Dev team didn't care about the huge loss of players because they were focused on increasing profit and the bottom line.  I believe they were very successful at coercing freebie players into become buyers.  It is not hard to tell that there is a much much higher percentage of buyers in the game now then ever before.  I can't slight management for that since it is a business after all, but I do believe they could have accomplished the same thing without damaging the game as much as they have.

 

Tanki shed about 40% of their players within a couple of months of MM.  Lesser, but still very unpopular updates tend to cause a 25% to 30% loss each time they are implemented.  It is easy to see if you wish.  Look up the patchnotes and or history of updates and then read a few of the thousands of angry posts on this forum complaining and cajoling Tanki Dev trying to get them to come to their senses.   Each update has caused major loss of players.

 

Over the course of several years worth of MM based updates (the downward spiral pretty much started with the paint separation), Tanki has lost more than an unbelievable 100,000 players.  Contemplate that for a moment...over 100,000 players gone!  And that doesn't include China or the Latin servers.  China has been virtually shut down for months now and the Latin servers have only about 1000 players at peak times...for most of the day they can't even break 500 and for a few hours around restart they get around 25 players. (I expect the Latin servers will be closed soon and players absorbed into the EU/RU servers).

 

But none of this matters to the Devs because their bottom line has increased.  If they are making more money, are they not making the right decisions for Tanki?  As much as I hate what they have done to the game, they must be given credit for their business model. 

 

 

 

The big question is whether it can last.  With HTML5 they may start advertising again and generate organic growth...it would only be a minor adjustment to secure low ranks for real newbies...no daily missions, no stars, no wars, no golds, no kits, maybe even no MUs,,,basically you grind your way up to rank 5 or 6...by then the newbie is ready for the frying pan and the alt account pros wouldn't bother much with low ranks any more.  Organic growth in Tanki. 

 

Plus Tanki is working on a completely new game...at a glance, it seems to be Fortnite-esk

How woud this be implemented?  By removing the "extras" you mention?  I could still create a new recruit account, but could not MU, etc until 5 or 6 ranks in?

[Ninja 10,468]

It is extremely obvious why there has been such a player loss.  I've watched through several years worth of toxic updates as huge numbers of players left the game after every major "improvement"  The biggest percentage of loss came immediately following the disaster that is now a fixture and that is MatchMaking.  MM and all the minor toxic updates to implement MM pretty much threw Tanki into the nosedive it is now in.

For sure these updates did make some players leave, but I personally dont believe that they are causing the overall player count decline, to me that is most likely natural as players become inactive and lose interest for whatever reason. (see below)

 

 

The Dev team didn't care about the huge loss of players because they were focused on increasing profit and the bottom line.  I believe they were very successful at coercing freebie players into become buyers.  It is not hard to tell that there is a much much higher percentage of buyers in the game now then ever before.  I can't slight management for that since it is a business after all, but I do believe they could have accomplished the same thing without damaging the game as much as they have.

Cannot disagree here, many other games have demonstrated that it is possible to be extremely profitable without causing so much havoc. Devs have openly said they deliberately chose the P2W route.

 

An interesting quote from a dev livestream regarding P2W: "Whether or not it was the right decision and whether Tanki would be more successful if revenue was generated by other means is unknown. But what is certain is that the only way to remove Pay-to-Win is to create a separate game without it."

 

 

 

Tanki shed about 40% of their players within a couple of months of MM.  Lesser, but still very unpopular updates tend to cause a 25% to 30% loss each time they are implemented.  It is easy to see if you wish.  Look up the patchnotes and or history of updates and then read a few of the thousands of angry posts on this forum complaining and cajoling Tanki Dev trying to get them to come to their senses.   Each update has caused major loss of players.

As someone who is often on the receiving end of all this outrage, I've personally noticed that the vast majority of players who complain and say they will quit the game are back a couple of weeks later when things have died down, this is why I think the updates arent the biggest part of player loss. 

 

Its also worth noting that often there is a silent majority and a vocal minority.

 

 

But none of this matters to the Devs because their bottom line has increased.  If they are making more money, are they not making the right decisions for Tanki?  As much as I hate what they have done to the game, they must be given credit for their business model.

Ultimately money is why this game and any other business exists, perhaps Tanki would not exist at this point had they chosen another business model, we'll never know.

 

 

Plus Tanki is working on a completely new game...at a glance, it seems to be Fortnite-esk

I dont think King Hardcore is going to replace Tanki as a revenue stream any time soon, mobile gaming is extremely flooded and difficult to compete in and frankly I see KH being scrapped in the future just like TX. Alternativa will probably continue exploring options as they try to diversify their revenue.

 

Also, thank you for an actually constructive and interesting post. I'm so used to reading blah blah devs are garbage etc :p

[Stringy.Cat.Tacos 25]

The big question is whether it can last.  With HTML5 they may start advertising again and generate organic growth...it would only be a minor adjustment to secure low ranks for real newbies...no daily missions, no stars, no wars, no golds, no kits, maybe even no MUs,,,basically you grind your way up to rank 5 or 6...by then the newbie is ready for the frying pan and the alt account pros wouldn't bother much with low ranks any more.  Organic growth in Tanki.

 

 

How woud this be implemented?  By removing the "extras" you mention?  I could still create a new recruit account, but could not MU, etc until 5 or 6 ranks in?

Sure, experienced players could still create new accounts and shred the actual newbies, but if Tanki made it just straight battle funds or crystal purchases (gotta pamper the buyers) for several ranks, I think the vast majority of alt account makers would leave the newbie ranks alone since they would rank and move very slowly. 

 

Without daily missions there would be no way to stockpile drugs or accumulate crystals quickly.  With no containers from missions, there would be no lucky 25,000 crystal hits.  In Legend ranks 25,000 is nice but at low ranks it is a game changer...total domination.  Without kits there are no M1s shredding the poor newbie with M0-MU3.  With no stars or wars, no extra rewards and no reason to pound through 70 tiers for a skin...almost all the alt players would use their higher accounts.  If you ranked by straight XP and gained crystals only by battle funds or buying them, I think the newbie ranks would get cleared of pros almost immediately.   It might even be a good idea to get rid of MUs in the first few ranks.  Everyone plays on an exact level.  If Tanki wanted to leave the current ranks as they are they could even generate five or six levels of Recruit or "Training" ranks....ROTC maybe :)  They might even create a way to opt out of training ranks and the newbie could jump in with the big fish if he felt ready....Say at Training3 you had the option of moving right to Recruit or you could continue on with all the Training ranks 4,5,6.  Training ranks would be straight battle funds and no extras and normal ranks with all the extras would be just as they are now.

 

It might not make as dynamic game play in the Training ranks, but it could generate an environment where an actual newbie could learn the mechanics of the game fighting other newbies.  Right now, if Tanki somehow got a thousand actual new players, I would be shocked if more than ten of them stuck with the game for more than a few hours...and that is probably very a conservative guess.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Stringy.Cat.Tacos

[Viking4s 10,791]

As someone who is often on the receiving end of all this outrage, I've personally noticed that the vast majority of players who complain and say they will quit the game are back a couple of weeks later when things have died down, this is why I think the updates arent the biggest part of player loss. 

  

I dont think King Hardcore is going to replace Tanki as a revenue stream any time soon, mobile gaming is extremely flooded and difficult to compete in and frankly I see KH being scrapped in the future just like TX. Alternativa will probably continue exploring options as they try to diversify their revenue.

Ninja always the best as ever.

 

The complainers do actually love the game (or what the game used to be) they have so much feeling about it that it deeply hurts them to see the changes made and to witness the number of player dropping.

It will be interesting to see how they will build the community for King Hardcore, one EN or several small one like TO.

 

On fornite, in the near future, newbies will be fighting bots. As they grow more confident and experienced they would be less and less bot in the battle. Experienced player would not compete with bots.

Bots could be a good way to boost the number of battle available.  :ph34r:  

 

We don't even know that it'll be used by so few. It could be used by so many.

We also don't know if many play jug because they want to be jug. It could just as well be that they just like to play the game mode.

I play TJR to be the boss and to kill it. Killing it is like capping or scoring at Rugby.

 

Being the Juggernaut during the battle gives you 2 things:

- you have the responsibility to keep from dying (so more of a defender role)

- you become the strongest asset of your team. With this new power you become more accountable for the positive or negative outcome of the battle for your team. 

This so much more than playing TDM, if one don't want to be a juggernaut then one should reconsider why playing this mode.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Viking4s

[Okami 3,041]

 

I like this idea of the game being simplified at low ranks. It's a lot like how the game was a long time ago at those ranks.

 

There used to be this "free trial" system, where if you wnated to, you could get an account with a random username like "#26721", where you could play on it until you reached Private, and then you could make an account.

Edited October 3, 2019 by GrayWolf8733