Unpopular opinion: If you're using a hull for it's overdrive, you shouldn't be using that hull

[Guest]

As title.

It's freaking stupid when I see whiners cry " x hull is useless" because its OD's got nerfed. Overdrives should be treated as a BONUS, not the reason you use the hull.

Example:

I use Titan for its HP and speed, not for some (albiet cool looking) dome.

Likewise with Wasp, I don't use it for its nuke, but for it's speed and nimble frame.

So don't come to the forum complaining that a bonus that you've been using as a crutch got knocked out of your armpit. Just learn how to use the hull, it's more than "the thing that moves the turret around" and suddenly that "nerf" will seem silly to you.

[Maf 32,300]

Yeah, definitely seems unpopular.

Devs added overdrives specifically with the intent of making them each hull's pièce de résistance. So yes, the overdrive is the hull's primary feature, while everything else is just numbers, which you can get used to if you really want to use that OD.

The only exception for me is Wasp vs Hornet. Wasp's bomb is pretty useless in most cases (at least compared to Hornet's OD), but I still use it because I find Hornet to be impossibly difficult to control due to its drift.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Over drives didn't make the hulls, the hulls made the overdrive.

 

For example, back in September 2018, I bought hunter, because I was tired of all the Damn swerving as a Viking user. I bought Raiden kit in mid March of 2019, I didn't use my hunter again after that despite me knowing that I'd do better with hunter due to it very noticeable stability advantage over Viking, because I thought I would get my account terminated if I did, so I decided not to risk it and just tough it out, even become a camper.

 

September 2019 hits with HTML5, and OMG, my Viking has become a lot more impact force resistant.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

7 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

because I thought I would get my account terminated if I did, so I decided not to risk it and just tough it out, even become a camper.

What?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

What?

Really, that's all your gonna say? Typical players these days responding to a whole paragraph with one word.

 

You could've just asked me "why did I think that?" Or "why did I choose Raiden kit then?"

 

But you just chose an abroad question in the form of "what?".

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

3 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Really, that's all your gonna say? Typical players these days responding to a whole paragraph with one word.

 

You could've just asked me "why did I think that?" Or "why did I choose Raiden kit then?"

 

But you just chose an abroad question in the form of "what?".

I meant why did you think your account was going to be terminated because you used Viking over Hunter.

Edited February 6, 2020 by TheCongoSpider

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

4 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I meant why did you think your account was going to be terminated because you used Viking over Hunter.

No, I thought that if I used my hunter rather than go Viking, I would be terminated, because my hunter was m2 ( probably had 6 or 7 MUes in it at the time) and my Viking was m3 ( 3 or 4 MUes at the time). And last I checked, it was against the rules to use weaker equipment.

 

Even though the power difference was insignificant and I did not want to chance it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

2 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

No, I thought that if I used my hunter rather than go Viking, I would be terminated, because my hunter was m2 ( probably had 6 or 7 MUes in it at the time) and my Viking was m3 ( 3 or 4 MUes at the time). And last I checked, it was against the rules to use weaker equipment.

 

Even though the power difference was insignificant and I did not want to chance it.

Alright. I understand. 

[Maf 32,300]

3 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

because I thought I would get my account terminated if I did, so I decided not to risk it

That's not how that rule is enforced. First of all, I'm not sure if they enforce it at all anymore, especially in MM battles. But even if they do, it's only for large modification differences, like having a full M3 garage and using your only M0/M1 combo. So there's absolutely no issue with using equipment a couple Mk modifications lower than the best thing you own.

[Potdindy 866]

Interesting thread. I love using wasp but acknowledge that when I do, I'm essentially not using an overdrive that battle. Hornet's overdrive is alone the reason to play it. You might not play a hull for its overdrive, but others are. Unfortunately, with overdrives being so powerful, they do overshadow the inherent features of the hulls. That update was not a mistake, just, not one that I like.

What would be cool would be if there were light overdrives, medium and heavy ones.

Titan and mamoth could pick between dome or deathtouch

Wasp/hornet= bomb or ignore protection

Medium hulls the same.

Such would allow people to use hulls as they like, rather than hulls like wasp forced into the suicide role, or ppl picking viking bc of the simple nature of its OD. Now that I saw that out loud, I really like that idea

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

10 minutes ago, Potdindy said:

What would be cool would be if there were light overdrives, medium and heavy ones.

Titan and mamoth could pick between dome or deathtouch

Wasp/hornet= bomb or ignore protection

Medium hulls the same.

Such would allow people to use hulls as they like, rather than hulls like wasp forced into the suicide role, or ppl picking viking bc of the simple nature of its OD. Now that I saw that out loud, I really like that idea

With choice, there will be optimal combos. 

 

I do like the idea of switching Overdrives between weight categories, for instance, if you have Hornet Mk7 but want Wasp's Overdrive, but your Wasp is Mk2. However, this would just instill the notion that some Overdrives are better than others, and would put those better Overdrives on hulls that would be the most optimal with it within that weight category, and...

16 minutes ago, Potdindy said:

Interesting thread. I love using wasp but acknowledge that when I do, I'm essentially not using an overdrive that battle. Hornet's overdrive is alone the reason to play it.

...you said it yourself here. Hornet's Overdrive is "so good", that it is worth playing it despite its disadvantages against Wasp or disadvantages in general. And that you wouldn't be using Wasp bombs if you would be using Wasp instead of Hornet. What can be concluded here? That Hornet's Overdrive is generally better than Wasp's Overdrive. And "ew, Hornet drifts too much. Wasp has that stability I need to keep aim on the enemy to get better value out of the Overdrive", and so, Hornet's Overdrive is now optimal on Wasp. 

 

And it will continue to filter until you see the optimal combos everywhere. Not to mention that this can also raise uncertainty levels since we've had hull-specific Overdrive for so long that it would be upsetting to encounter a Viking thinking you can take them on only to see that they use Hunter's Overdrive on you. Or trying to get close to a Titan to kill it only for it to use Mammoth's Overdrive. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

13 hours ago, Maf said:

Yeah, definitely seems unpopular.

Devs added overdrives specifically with the intent of making them each hull's pièce de résistance. So yes, the overdrive is the hull's primary feature, while everything else is just numbers, which you can get used to if you really want to use that OD.

The only exception for me is Wasp vs Hornet. Wasp's bomb is pretty useless in most cases (at least compared to Hornet's OD), but I still use it because I find Hornet to be impossibly difficult to control due to its drift.

Most ODs are useless when compared to Hornet OD.   I get killed by Wasp bombs daily - I can't be the only one playing against competent Wasp users... can I?

9 hours ago, Maf said:

That's not how that rule is enforced. First of all, I'm not sure if they enforce it at all anymore, especially in MM battles. But even if they do, it's only for large modification differences, like having a full M3 garage and using your only M0/M1 combo. So there's absolutely no issue with using equipment a couple Mk modifications lower than the best thing you own.

I wish they would.  Might wake up all the dummies that STILL have not equipped a module.

[Potdindy 866]

10 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

With choice, there will be optimal combos. 

 

I do like the idea of switching Overdrives between weight categories, for instance, if you have Hornet Mk7 but want Wasp's Overdrive, but your Wasp is Mk2. However, this would just instill the notion that some Overdrives are better than others, and would put those better Overdrives on hulls that would be the most optimal with it within that weight category, and...

If balanced well, overdrives shouldnt be better or worse, just different. Perhaps you are playing assault, which is the one place the bomb is decent, switch to the bomb...otherwise, use the scout OD. Currently, there are combos that are just strictly bad...I enjoy shaft and wasp, but i acknowledge I am choosing to play a worse version of hornet shaft. Actually, maybe only with freeze is wasp equal to hornet...otherwise id rather have the protection ignorance.

 

...you said it yourself here. Hornet's Overdrive is "so good", that it is worth playing it despite its disadvantages against Wasp or disadvantages in general. And that you wouldn't be using Wasp bombs if you would be using Wasp instead of Hornet. What can be concluded here? That Hornet's Overdrive is generally better than Wasp's Overdrive. And "ew, Hornet drifts too much. Wasp has that stability I need to keep aim on the enemy to get better value out of the Overdrive", and so, Hornet's Overdrive is now optimal on Wasp. 

Before overdrives, I think more people used hornet than wasp, so the hulls arent better or worse than each others. However, yes, hornet's overdrive is waaay better than wasp. Is wasp ever correct to play if you want to win? I dont think so. Essentially every time someone runs wasp, they say, "its a fun hull"...aka "I dont do well, but I enjoy it". I can't think of a spot where hornet is not correct to play...so it is objectively better. @Mafstated he likes wasp's handling better, but I'd say that doesnt make up for wasp's noob bomb. 

I think they've done a great job balancing the medium and heavy overdrives, and non are better or worse than others, but the lights are not even close.

 

 

And it will continue to filter until you see the optimal combos everywhere. Not to mention that this can also raise uncertainty levels since we've had hull-specific Overdrive for so long that it would be upsetting to encounter a Viking thinking you can take them on only to see that they use Hunter's Overdrive on you. Or trying to get close to a Titan to kill it only for it to use Mammoth's Overdrive. 

This last point is legitimate, but again, currently we define hulls by their overdrive rather than the hull. I'd rather talk about hunter for its mediumness, than for its overdrive, and we dont do that.

 

[Potdindy 866]

11 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Most ODs are useless when compared to Hornet OD.   I get killed by Wasp bombs daily - I can't be the only one playing against competent Wasp users... can I?

I dont...I always say "nice bomb" when they do get me bc it hardly ever happens. Not because of my skill, but bc i just drive away from it. Also, we say competent wasps and we typically mean someone who will be midpack with an 8/10 k/d at best. A good hornet can be top score with 22/6 k/d...same with viking, and hunter, etc. I've never seen that from wasp players...usually they go like 3/10 for 60 points

[Maf 32,300]

26 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I wish they would.  Might wake up all the dummies that STILL have not equipped a module.

That's the thing though - such players are not doing it with malicious intent. Why should the game punish them for not having common sense?

[wolverine848 13,097]

20 minutes ago, Maf said:

That's the thing though - such players are not doing it with malicious intent. Why should the game punish them for not having common sense?

Not suggesting any real punishment... was just a pie-in-the-sky wish that would wake them up...

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 hours ago, Maf said:

That's the thing though - such players are not doing it with malicious intent. Why should the game punish them for not having common sense?

 

2 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Not suggesting any real punishment... was just a pie-in-the-sky wish that would wake them up...

We really need a display of our currently equipped protection modules in the main menu. This should be enough to get them to know whether or not their modules are equipped at all times.

 

Should be quite simple to implement on the part of the devs, so I see no reason for this.

[Benefactor 6,888]

5 hours ago, Maf said:

That's the thing though - such players are not doing it with malicious intent. Why should the game punish them for not having common sense?

And mults are punished because....?

[Potdindy 866]

You know, I think I must humble myself and suggest that @wolverine was correct when it comes to overdrives. I dont tend to like effects like these as they give more bonuses to the team who is already winning, but inherrently they arent terrible, and the more I play with most of them, I really like them. The heavy overdrives are amazing...i keep going back between titan and mamoth for defense because they are each good in different roles. The medium overdrives I think are finally balanced and dont break the battle.

One exception: Hornet. I was sooo excited that a light hull got an overdrive that allowed it to do well in battles. However, this dumb OD really needs to be looked at....it completely removes player agency. Magnum with OD looks at your titan with 50% under dome and armor? One shot, dead. Almost every battle that is a blowout, is that because of this hull. Yes, light hulls should have some good overdrives too, but right now, good defenses whither under hornet/magnum fire and they cant do anything to stop it.

[Alklines 1,751]

On 2/6/2020 at 11:52 AM, Potdindy said:

Interesting thread. I love using wasp but acknowledge that when I do, I'm essentially not using an overdrive that battle. Hornet's overdrive is alone the reason to play it. You might not play a hull for its overdrive, but others are. Unfortunately, with overdrives being so powerful, they do overshadow the inherent features of the hulls. That update was not a mistake, just, not one that I like.

What would be cool would be if there were light overdrives, medium and heavy ones.

Titan and mamoth could pick between dome or deathtouch

Wasp/hornet= bomb or ignore protection

Medium hulls the same.

Such would allow people to use hulls as they like, rather than hulls like wasp forced into the suicide role, or ppl picking viking bc of the simple nature of its OD. Now that I saw that out loud, I really like that idea

I avoid enemy Hunter's like the plague. You never know if they their OD ready to spread it's disease. If Hunter and Viking could interchange their OD's you'd never know if they have the Berserk or EM Pulse OD until it's too late.

If this suggestion would be implemented, it'd always bring the unexpected for all enemy hulls. 

ᵖˡˢ ⁿᵒ

[Okami 3,041]

13 hours ago, Alklines said:

I avoid enemy Hunter's like the plague. You never know if they their OD ready to spread it's disease.

I agree, I was playing Striker/Titan and some Firebird/Hunter was pestering me so I dropped my dome. Well, they just used their OD to disable it and I died. Hunter's a fun OD to use on people but it's equally annoying to be the one on the receiving end.

 

I also am wary around Mammoths; it gets on my nerves when I drive up to them to start spitting fire at them, only for the Mammoth to turn on their Overdrive and start chasing me. Usually it ends with the Mammoth victorious.

Edited February 8, 2020 by GrayWolf8733

[Potdindy 866]

So, most of the overdrives bring some decision making to a battle. Do i:

1: Expect to be facing lots of mid to long range turrets and want the protection that Titan offers, while losing to hunters and hornets, or

2: Expect to be facing down short range turrets where the deathtouch immediately ends any attack.

These overdrives are excellent and well designed.

Medium Hulls:

1: Want extra firepower? Viking is the best.

2. Want to completely break attacks or defenses? Hunter is great!

3: Want extra supplies and help the team succeed? Dictator's OD is great!

Again, decently well designed.

Light Hulls: 

1: Want to obliterate enemy tanks with high damage at long range? Hornet is best.

2. Want to obliteate enemy tanks at short range? Well...hornet is still the best 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Potdindy

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

41 minutes ago, Potdindy said:

2. Want to obliteate enemy tanks at short range? Well...hornet is still the best 

I think the wasp bomb does it's job well even in the high ranks. The "place it in the middle of the enemy base" technique fails more than in the beginner and low ranks, which is good. Just gotta use it more strategically in the high ranks.

[Potdindy 866]

1 hour ago, DieselPlatinum said:

I think the wasp bomb does it's job well even in the high ranks. The "place it in the middle of the enemy base" technique fails more than in the beginner and low ranks, which is good. Just gotta use it more strategically in the high ranks.

On a side note, many many times ill see a wasp just random poop out a bomb in the middle of our base with no enemies around. Hilarious

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, Potdindy said:

On a side note, many many times ill see a wasp just random poop out a bomb in the middle of our base with no enemies around. Hilarious

They're probably doing that to complete the OD mission as fast as possible.