declined Remove Shafts Laser

[wolverine848 13,097]

9 hours ago, Moisthero said:

Also, get rid of that tracer - it have already addressed that in my previous message. Not all players like shaft - they don't like camping, so it is false to think everyone would now get the traceless shaft.

Lots of issues in TO, yes.  But Shaft having the laser is not one of them.

We get it - you'd like to kill more tanks.  But your request is self-serving.  Only way Shaft ever loses the laser is if it gets nerfed somehow. There's no way the game will let you one-shot medium hulls withous some kind of chance to avoid the shot.  Stop comparing Shaft to Gauss/Smoky/Thunder. THEY CANT ONE-SHOT MEDIUM HULLS WITHOUT DD.

All players hit by Gauss/Smoky/Thunder have a chance to survive if attacker does not have DD vs unprotected hull.

[Devoid 2,603]

Spoiler

17 hours ago, Moisthero said:

This is exactly the type of response one would expect from Tanki. Total disregard for any reasonable suggestion. You are losing more and more players every day because of the terrible changes to the game. So don't worry about the tracer, it actually might stop the migration of players. The point is simple - your argument is copy paste from an era before Gauss - very powerful turret with no tracer; before smokey had auto-cannon; before thunder had more splash. All you did over the years is limit the shaft - tracer, angle, double kills, loading time. Shall I go on? At this rate of stupid changes to the game you, Mr. Moderator, will be out of a job soon.

 

16 hours ago, Moisthero said:

I am a shafts man in this game. I have been playing every day since January 2015. So I think I know the game well. I have many grievances. This list is long. Tanki has basically made the game primarily for kids, by making it easy - you can target the runaway flag, you can see the enemy hiding in HTML5, you reduced the game to 7 min. (and I am sure you will shorten it to 5 min. which will make it a real toilet game), you have tempered with the matchmaking system, reduced to zero choice of battle, except for pro (you cannot only play pro because it is unsustainable without the star and awards system). In the meantime you have not fixed the glitches that cause problems in the game from early on: most annoying is being kicked out of the game due to server error. I know I am wright when I say that the game is dying due to your recent "innovations". But let the number do the talking. In 2015 a regular number of player in the week day would be round 65 thousand. On the weekend it was over 100K. Today it barely reaches 14k on nay given day.

Big issue with the HTML5: when in snipe mode the aim is not smooth - the crosshairs alway slightly jump up or down or go left or right depending which direction you aim - the usual end is a mis shot or in adjustment. This is a problem for every snipe who needs precision.

Also, get rid of that tracer - it have already addressed that in my previous message. Not all players like shaft - they don't like camping, so it is false to think everyone would now get the traceless shaft.

Tanki - return to what was right for the game, or face demise.

 

 

16 hours ago, Moisthero said:

Why compensate? Why should other players be aware they are being targeted? They don't know they are targeted by gause, by smokey auto cannon, by magnum,  by thunder...

 

After tirelessly reading through your rant, it seems that you exclusively play with Shaft, and you just want every battle to be super easy for you to take the First Place spot in. It also seems that you are already contemplating leaving the game, and no matter what the Developers do, you won't be open to rethinking this decision. I hope you decide to stay, and that you can form different opinions on the updates Developers provide, but if you end up leaving the game, I can understand it. If you choose to read through the rest of my post here, I hope you can be open to actually thinking about what I am meaning by every part of the statement, before just declining it. Thank you.

 

Talking generally, everyone has their own opinions on what the ideal version of this game would be. Most people would love if their favorite turret was the best amongst all others, but unfortunately, that isn't going to happen. A game, no matter the size, needs to listen to players, and I personally feel that Tanki does a good job at this (call me biased if you want, but I was a regular player only just a few months ago). For example, Shaft back in the day was way too overpowered, and enough complaining from the players of this game caused the turret to receive some updates that balanced this turret with the others. Sure, people who used Shaft loved the turret before it received several nerfs wanted the old turret to return, but I would argue that anyone who enjoyed Shaft beforehand, and became discouraged to use the turret after the balance updates, never truly liked the turret, they just liked how easy it was to gain EXP and crystals with it (They weren't true fans).

 

I think it is also important to realize that Helpers only help the game because they enjoy the game, and because they choose to help with it, not that they do it exclusively for the benefits of the position. I have played this game for 6 years, and throughout my entire time in the game, I have always wanted to become a Chat Moderator. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to become a Chat Moderator yet, but the other Helper positions I hold also give me something I was looking for in being a Chat Moderator: I wanted to give back to the game, as this game has brought me excitement throughout the entirety of my childhood (I have no idea what my childhood would have looked like if Tanki Online wasn't a part of it). All Helpers in this game are players of the game, and we hate certain updates of this game just like any other player. In fact, I even remember seeing my administrator, @Maf, in a battle about a year ago, complaining about how overpowered the Dragon's Breath alteration for Hammer was. This, to me, showed that even though Helpers are employed by the game, they will stand up when needed, and tell the Developers when an update or something else upsets them.

 

I feel, from reading your comments, that you think I am just trying to defend the game, or just trying to "make it easy for Developers" by not allowing a specific idea for an update to move to the Developers, but I assure you, this isn't the case. If I see a genuine problem that needs fixing, I will inform my administrators/the Developers of my opinion, without any hesitation. In fact, I was even planning on creating an Ideas and Suggestions topic of my own later today, discussing that Special Missions should also be found in the Flash client version of the game, not just on HTML5 and Mobile. The point is, I might be a Helper, and work on behalf of the game, but I am just like you, in that I find some of the Developers' decisions negative, and agree that there are some problems with the game. With that being said, I am not going to rethink the idea of "Removing Shaft's Laser," but I hope you can now understand why this is the case.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

2 hours ago, Mr.Nibbles said:

For example, Shaft back in the day was way too overpowered, and enough complaining from the players of this game caused the turret to receive some updates that balanced this turret with the others. Sure, people who used Shaft loved the turret before it received several nerfs wanted the old turret to return, but I would argue that anyone who enjoyed Shaft beforehand, and became discouraged to use the turret after the balance updates, never truly liked the turret, they just liked how easy it was to gain EXP and crystals with it (They weren't true fans).

For once you actually made a valid point.

 

Before 2015, shaft had its stealth ability which made it almost impossible to counter. I knew first hand because I exploited this heavily.

 

Unfortunately they made another stealth turret called Gauss, which factually was a bad idea.

[Moisthero 254]

20 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

They don't deal as much damage as Shaft does. 

Not correct. Shaft is not that powerful. Gauss is much stronger. Shafts hardly ever kill in one shot.

 

[Moisthero 254]

11 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Lots of issues in TO, yes.  But Shaft having the laser is not one of them.

We get it - you'd like to kill more tanks.  But your request is self-serving.  Only way Shaft ever loses the laser is if it gets nerfed somehow. There's no way the game will let you one-shot medium hulls withous some kind of chance to avoid the shot.  Stop comparing Shaft to Gauss/Smoky/Thunder. THEY CANT ONE-SHOT MEDIUM HULLS WITHOUT DD.

All players hit by Gauss/Smoky/Thunder have a chance to survive if attacker does not have DD vs unprotected hull.

This is simply incorrect. I have been killed by one shot by gauss many times, and I use a titan, M6, or  whatever the current maximum number is.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

3 minutes ago, Moisthero said:

Not correct. Shaft is not that powerful. Gauss is much stronger. Shafts hardly ever kill in one shot.

Shaft's maximum sniping damage is 2x the average damage of Gauss' sniping shot. Shaft deals more damage than the medium hull has HP. Gauss would require 2 sniping shots to kill the medium hull on equal footing, and because of its wide damage range, it can take up to 3 sniping shots if the Gauss is unlucky. Shaft requires only one shot on equal footing. 

[Moisthero 254]

On 2/28/2020 at 4:49 PM, Mr.Nibbles said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

After tirelessly reading through your rant, it seems that you exclusively play with Shaft, and you just want every battle to be super easy for you to take the First Place spot in. It also seems that you are already contemplating leaving the game, and no matter what the Developers do, you won't be open to rethinking this decision. I hope you decide to stay, and that you can form different opinions on the updates Developers provide, but if you end up leaving the game, I can understand it. If you choose to read through the rest of my post here, I hope you can be open to actually thinking about what I am meaning by every part of the statement, before just declining it. Thank you.

 

Talking generally, everyone has their own opinions on what the ideal version of this game would be. Most people would love if their favorite turret was the best amongst all others, but unfortunately, that isn't going to happen. A game, no matter the size, needs to listen to players, and I personally feel that Tanki does a good job at this (call me biased if you want, but I was a regular player only just a few months ago). For example, Shaft back in the day was way too overpowered, and enough complaining from the players of this game caused the turret to receive some updates that balanced this turret with the others. Sure, people who used Shaft loved the turret before it received several nerfs wanted the old turret to return, but I would argue that anyone who enjoyed Shaft beforehand, and became discouraged to use the turret after the balance updates, never truly liked the turret, they just liked how easy it was to gain EXP and crystals with it (They weren't true fans).

 

I think it is also important to realize that Helpers only help the game because they enjoy the game, and because they choose to help with it, not that they do it exclusively for the benefits of the position. I have played this game for 6 years, and throughout my entire time in the game, I have always wanted to become a Chat Moderator. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to become a Chat Moderator yet, but the other Helper positions I hold also give me something I was looking for in being a Chat Moderator: I wanted to give back to the game, as this game has brought me excitement throughout the entirety of my childhood (I have no idea what my childhood would have looked like if Tanki Online wasn't a part of it). All Helpers in this game are players of the game, and we hate certain updates of this game just like any other player. In fact, I even remember seeing my administrator, @Maf, in a battle about a year ago, complaining about how overpowered the Dragon's Breath alteration for Hammer was. This, to me, showed that even though Helpers are employed by the game, they will stand up when needed, and tell the Developers when an update or something else upsets them.

 

I feel, from reading your comments, that you think I am just trying to defend the game, or just trying to "make it easy for Developers" by not allowing a specific idea for an update to move to the Developers, but I assure you, this isn't the case. If I see a genuine problem that needs fixing, I will inform my administrators/the Developers of my opinion, without any hesitation. In fact, I was even planning on creating an Ideas and Suggestions topic of my own later today, discussing that Special Missions should also be found in the Flash client version of the game, not just on HTML5 and Mobile. The point is, I might be a Helper, and work on behalf of the game, but I am just like you, in that I find some of the Developers' decisions negative, and agree that there are some problems with the game. With that being said, I am not going to rethink the idea of "Removing Shaft's Laser," but I hope you can now understand why this is the case.

I appreciate you responding to my "rants". I did read it through. I don't think you took up most of the points I was making though. Apologies for making my piece too long, but this seemed as a first opportunity to let off steam in a forum in which there is someone from Tanki. You assume a bit too much too. I am frustrated with Tanki, but that is because I love the game so much and I care for it. That is why I am writing this. I hate to see a good game go bad. It was much more interesting when we couldn't see which way the flag or rugby ball went, or where the Jagganaut was. Today they are moving targets. It was just more challenging. I  get that shaft was too powerful at one point. All I am saying it is not that powerful any more. Angles in snipe a decreased, sniping power is reduced and so on. There is also major a problem with the HTML5 that I mentioned previously- that jitter when aiming in shaft more (I mention this because this IS a bug). I am sure certain issues are a real problem and can or even should be fixed. Lastly did you assume I am 50? So I do think I can have some say as to expectations and quality of a product. I look forward to future exchanges.

[Moisthero 254]

18 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Shaft's maximum sniping damage is 2x the average damage of Gauss' sniping shot. Shaft deals more damage than the medium hull has HP. Gauss would require 2 sniping shots to kill the medium hull on equal footing, and because of its wide damage range, it can take up to 3 sniping shots if the Gauss is unlucky. Shaft requires only one shot on equal footing. 

I sit in a heavy Titan with maximum protection - and still get killed by one gauss shot. So not that weak is that gauss you speak of.

 

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

1 minute ago, Moisthero said:

I sit in a heavy Titan with maximum protection - and still get killed by one gauss shot. So not that weak is that gauss you speak of.

Hornet's Overdrive bypasses your protection. You are being killed by a Gauss with double damage. You don't have Gauss protection.

And Gauss' maximum damage is high enough to one-shot a heavy hull with DD if they're lucky enough. Heavy Capacitors Shaft does not need DD to one-shot the heavy hull on equal footing. 

 

I never said it was weak. I said that Shaft's sniping damage is 2x the average damage the Gauss would deal. So what Gauss can deal with double damage, Shaft can do that without it. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, Moisthero said:

This is simply incorrect. I have been killed by one shot by gauss many times, and I use a titan, M6, or  whatever the current maximum number is.

Read my post again and then tell me I'm wrong.  Pay careful attention to any bold or upper-case words.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Gauss would require 2 sniping shots to kill the medium hull on equal footing,

This only really applies in beginner ranked battles or no supply battles. In MM battles, this situation only happens 1% of the time if that, me thinks it's less.

[Maf 32,317]

2 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

This only really applies in beginner ranked battles or no supply battles. In MM battles, this situation only happens 1% of the time if that, me thinks it's less.

What do you mean? DD is cancelled out by DA, so it always takes 2 shots with Gauss unless the other player doesn't have DA for whatever reason, in which case it's their fault.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Just now, Maf said:

What do you mean? DD is cancelled out by DA, so it always takes 2 shots with Gauss unless the other player doesn't have DA for whatever reason, in which case it's their fault.

The other player probably doesn't have DA on because perhaps their base is under attack, meaning they use DD to ward off the intruders.

Or they're trying to get to the enemy base quickly so they use speed boost.

Or their DA just wore off.

It doesn't even matter who has DA or DD. All that matters is who struck first successfully. Because that is likely to determine the outcome. And Gauss is very good at doing just that.

Besides the Gauss would still have the upper hand anyway if it had DD and the other player had DA.

[123tim456back 195]

38 minutes ago, Maf said:

What do you mean? DD is cancelled out by DA, so it always takes 2 shots with Gauss unless the other player doesn't have DA for whatever reason, in which case it's their fault.

Kind of their fault but not exactly.  Aside from coincidences, Gausses have no laser, and can easily lock onto newly spawned players from a hiding spot or even across the map. I believe most players, including me, would use speed boost as the first drug.  

 

Also, the turrets can lock on during spawn invincibility.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

38 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

This only really applies in beginner ranked battles or no supply battles. In MM battles, this situation only happens 1% of the time if that, me thinks it's less.

 

25 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

The other player probably doesn't have DA on because perhaps their base is under attack, meaning they use DD to ward off the intruders.

Or they're trying to get to the enemy base quickly so they use speed boost.

Or their DA just wore off.

It doesn't even matter who has DA or DD. All that matters is who struck first successfully. Because that is likely to determine the outcome. And Gauss is very good at doing just that.

Besides the Gauss would still have the upper hand anyway if it had DD and the other player had DA.

I said equal footing. As in both sides have no supplies or protection modules against each other's turrets activated or equipped, or the offensive party with DD and the receiver with DA + no protection modules. 

 

The case where both have all supplies activated, the Gauss would need two shots, while the Shaft would need one. It matters whether the player had DA or DD on because the Gauss can still not one-shot the medium hull even if it had DD against an unprotected enemy medium hull. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

10 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

The other player probably doesn't have DA on because perhaps their base is under attack, meaning they use DD to ward off the intruders.

Or they're trying to get to the enemy base quickly so they use speed boost.

Or their DA just wore off.

It doesn't even matter who has DA or DD. All that matters is who struck first successfully. Because that is likely to determine the outcome. And Gauss is very good at doing just that.

Besides the Gauss would still have the upper hand anyway if it had DD and the other player had DA.

DD vs no-DA?  Then you're comparing apples to oranges.   Plus you still have option to equip a module.

The difference we are talking about is... even if you equip a DA, Shaft will still one-shot a medium.  Gauss can't do that.

10 hours ago, 123tim456back said:

Kind of their fault but not exactly.  Aside from coincidences, Gausses have no laser, and can easily lock onto newly spawned players from a hiding spot or even across the map. I believe most players, including me, would use speed boost as the first drug.  

 

Also, the turrets can lock on during spawn invincibility.

 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

27 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Shaft will still one-shot a medium.  Gauss can't do that.

Gauss doesn't need to to one shot a medium to be effective. Gauss just needs 2 seconds of your time whether you're a noob not knowing what to do or you're preoccupied. It doesn't really matter how it gets the kill, what matters is that the Gauss got the kill and the victim never saw it coming.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

6 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

 It doesn't really matter how it gets the kill, what matters is that the Gauss got the kill and the victim never saw it coming.

The same thing can be said about Shaft since the laser starts appearing about ~3 seconds into charging. And because its max sniping damage is so high (just high enough to one-shot a medium hull), it doesn't need to put much charge in to kill the target. In 2 seconds of charging, it can kill the target. 

And remember, Gauss' minimum sniping damage is low enough that it can fail to one-shot the medium hull. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

The same thing can be said about Shaft since the laser starts appearing about ~3 seconds into charging. And because its max sniping damage is so high (just high enough to one-shot a medium hull), it doesn't need to put much charge in to kill the target. In 2 seconds of charging, it can kill the target. 

And remember, Gauss' minimum sniping damage is low enough that it can fail to one-shot the medium hull. 

All of you seem to be disregarding that shaft cannot move it's hull while sniping. Gauss can just move about.

 

Also in a heavily forested maps that is even in terrain and a clear view of each other's base without using the red outline indicator and they both have double damage on, the shaft would have an extremely difficult time finding the Gauss while the Gauss can just hold down the firing button and do a quick sweep scan of the area which will easily find the shaft. Gauss wins.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

3 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

All of you seem to be disregarding that shaft cannot move it's hull while sniping. Gauss can just move about.

So can the enemy. If the enemy is far away, the Gauss has a very thin line of acquisition and needs to be very precise. If the enemy is constantly moving, it will take a lot longer than 2 seconds to get the shot. Shaft can see from afar as it zooms in for those 2 seconds and cna adjust its aim to kill the target. 

Same thing applies at mid-range, but at this range, you would see if the enemy has double armour or double damage activated, so you'd know what to use yourself. If the Shaft sees the gauss has double damage while locking on, the Shaft can use DA to survive the shot, and then take out the Gauss because it doesn't need DD to one-shot it. And even if the Shaft doesn't use DA, it still has a chance to survive the shot since Gauss' minimum sniping damage is low enough to allow a medium hull to survive it. 

 

11 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Also in a heavily forested maps that is even in terrain and a clear view of each other's base without using the red outline indicator and they both have double damage on, the shaft would have an extremely difficult time finding the Gauss while the Gauss can just hold down the firing button and do a quick sweep scan of the area which will easily find the shaft. Gauss wins.

Soooo, only Forest? I'm aware of my surroundings enough to see a Gauss locking onto me unless they're in my own team's base locking onto me. And a Shaft should know not to enter sniping mode in an area they can't see enemies in. I go into the forested area if I have Hornet's Overdrive ready. 

I see just fine in Yorkshire.

[Moisthero 254]

I have one other issue - the cost of Battle Pass to play the challenges. You have shortened by half the length of tiers to be completed but we still need to pay for a Battle Pass 500 - the old price. So it is now twice as expensive to buy a pass. Should this cost be halved? 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

1) So can the enemy. If the enemy is far away, the Gauss has a very thin line of acquisition and needs to be very precise. If the enemy is constantly moving, it will take a lot longer than 2 seconds to get the shot. Shaft can see from afar as it zooms in for those 2 seconds and cna adjust its aim to kill the target. 

 

 

2) Soooo, only Forest? I'm aware of my surroundings enough to see a Gauss locking onto me unless they're in my own team's base locking onto me. 

1) not sure if we're comparing the same things here. I'm comparing Gauss to shaft. Sounds like you're comparing shaft to striker. But if changing the subject makes you feel like you won the argument and if that makes you happy, alright then.

 

2) well I applaud you then, it's not every day someone can handle a billion things at once.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

1 minute ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1) not sure if we're comparing the same things here. I'm comparing Gauss to shaft. Sounds like you're comparing shaft to striker. But if changing the subject makes you feel like you won the argument and if that makes you happy, alright then.

I'm comparing Gauss to Shaft there. 

 

1 minute ago, DieselPlatinum said:

2) well I applaud you then, it's not every day someone can handle a billion things at once.

True. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

6 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I'm comparing Gauss to Shaft there. 

 

Well then in that case, you're wrong about Gauss needing to be precise. It gets to be precise. Which allows it to lock on that sliver of the enemy's hull that's sticking out without them knowing.

Shafts actually the one that has to be precise when it's sniping, it doesn't get that vertical auto aim luxury that Gauss gets while sniping.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

1 minute ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Well then in that case, you're wrong about Gauss needing to be precise. It gets to be precise. Which allows it to lock on that sliver of the enemy's hull that's sticking out without them knowing.

You've used Gauss before to compare it to Striker, didn't you? Have you ever tried to lock onto someone at the other side of Yorkshire or Highways, or Stadium? Striker has a laser to help you see where you're aiming. Gauss doesn't have a laser, so it relies on the reticle. That sliver of the tank can be hard to lock onto if the tank is constantly moving or just really far away mostly behind a wall. The faraway target's body is very small, even smaller is the tiny part of the hull you're locking onto. Sometimes, rotating your Gauss slightly can overshoot. It needs to be very precise on faraway targets, especially if they're hiding behind something and allowing you 10% or less of their hull to be seen.

Shaft zooms in so the body of the target has more surface area for your shot to land. 

 

8 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Shafts actually the one that has to be precise when it's sniping, it doesn't get that vertical auto aim luxury that Gauss gets while sniping.

In sniping mode, they can rotate vertically and horizontally. They are more accurate at longer ranges than Gauss because they can zoom in to make the surface area of their target larger. Furthermore, Gauss' acquisition can be interrupted by an enemy going in front of your target, while Shaft can aim at whatever part of whichever tank it wants.