New stupidly overpowered vulcan

[wolverine848 13,097]

21 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

I used to play Vulcan with mammoth mostly for base defense. Now it seems bit harder to defend than before. Do you think it could be due to its new statistics which make it better for attacking?

what do you think is most suitable for Vulcans’ gameplay now? Attack?defence? Midfield?

I’m  asking because I might buy a kit with Vulcan.

Vulcan due to the new mechanics of the bullets, has trouble hitting moving targets at long range because you have to lead them.

Vulcan is now better at mid range - more damage than before and "leading" not as much a problem.

Up close, Vulcan is still not great because of the tracking while firing.  But still good at flag defense if you have a decent spot not too close to flag.  Dictator is awesome with Vulcan.  So is Trooper drone - the combination means you are fully supplied for most of the battle.

Hornet is... meh with Vulcan.  Hornet is better with heavy one-shot damage turrets as it allows peek-a-boo and ambushing since hornet itself has low armor.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

I think it needs just a slight decrease in dps, because people with Drones and full supplies destroy you way too fast. I don't think Vulcan is OP, but a bit stronger than what it should be at the moment.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

Ok thanks fer the help.

So I plan buying either boreas Or eyjafjallajokul kits. Which would you guys think is better at the moment? I find it hard to decide.

[DaringDeer 656]

Below are stats for last 2 weeks of high-level legends.  Before the vulcan buff, it was consistently the least used turret for a year.  It is now far and away the most common turret used and earns the highest experience/hour.  Even when there are 6 opponents with 50% protection it is still playable which I don't think you can say about any other turret.

[wolverine848 13,097]

7 hours ago, DaringDeer said:

Below are stats for last 2 weeks of high-level legends.  Before the vulcan buff, it was consistently the least used turret for a year.  It is now far and away the most common turret used and earns the highest experience/hour.  Even when there are 6 opponents with 50% protection it is still playable which I don't think you can say about any other turret.

 

What is source of table?

I notice Vulcan module is not even the 4th most-equipped module.  This would certainly account for some Vulcan success - not facing as many modules as Rail, Magnum, Thunder.  Thunder?  Now your numbers seem suspicious - why is anyone equipping Thunder nowadays?  According to your table it is one of the LEAST-used turrets.

And... don't discount the "newness" factor.  It is not surprising players might blow the dust off the vulcan sitting in their garage and give it a try with the recent changes.

 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Here comes armies of Shark modules!

[DaringDeer 656]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

What is source of table?

I notice Vulcan module is not even the 4th most-equipped module.  This would certainly account for some Vulcan success - not facing as many modules as Rail, Magnum, Thunder.  Thunder?  Now your numbers seem suspicious - why is anyone equipping Thunder nowadays?  According to your table it is one of the LEAST-used turrets.

And... don't discount the "newness" factor.  It is not surprising players might blow the dust off the vulcan sitting in their garage and give it a try with the recent changes.

 

I grab profile snapshots from almost 600 legends and am able to use that information to produce statistics like this.  

I know 2 of my 3 protections going into a battle currently are vulcan and fire.

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

22 minutes ago, DaringDeer said:

I grab profile snapshots from almost 600 legends and am able to use that information to produce statistics like this.  

I know 2 of my 3 protections going into a battle currently are vulcan and fire.

 

Wait - your source is your observations?

- Does not explain the module use - makes no sense that Thunder top-3 when Thunder usage way down.

- My observation is that Viking & Hornet are most popular hulls and Rail & Magnum are most popular turrets.

- Vulcan really only popular in Pro-battles when they know they will have friends using isida to join them.  Yeah it is more popular now than it used to be in MM - but that is mostly the newness factor.  It's not top-3 in usage in MM battles from Lt. General up to Legend.

[JESUSaves2 98]

i think this vulcan update was good because now i see vulcans playing plus the bullet grahpics are really cool

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

- Vulcan really only popular in Pro-battles when they know they will have friends using isida to join them.  Yeah it is more popular now than it used to be in MM - but that is mostly the newness factor.  It's not top-3 in usage in MM battles from Lt. General up to Legend.

The number of Vulcans I'm seeing in Legend battles has increased a lot. I'm talking at least 2 in most battles and a few times 6 in the same battle. That's just from my observations. The ones I see are most often paired with Titan, Hornet and Viking in that order. The Vulcan Hornets are very deadly in Siege, where they're clearing out my teammates or the enemies very quickly with the Overdrive. And killing them is no easy feat when they have protection against your turrets and a 20/20 Defender Drone on them during that time.

It's starting to become like the RGC Magnum + Hornet fad and it is working for them. Whenever I see one, I just think, "Ugh, another one". 

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

Wait - your source is your observations?

- Does not explain the module use - makes no sense that Thunder top-3 when Thunder usage way down.

Well he's tracking those 600 Legends' usage. They may use Thunder protection a lot, but that doesn't mean they'd be using Thunder itself a lot. They could be encountering many Thunders while not playing with Thunder much themselves. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

39 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

They may use Thunder protection a lot, but that doesn't mean they'd be using Thunder itself a lot. They could be encountering many Thunders while not playing with Thunder much themselves. 

My point was... why would they be equipping Thunder protection when Thunder turret is no longer encountered much.

Again - is it possible you see a lot of Vulcan's because a major change was made recently?  "Newness" factor.  There were a lot of Strikers around when it was introduced. I am in no way comparing the usefulness of Vulcan and Striker. Just pointing out it was equipped a lot because it was new.

[Viking4s 10,791]

15 hours ago, DaringDeer said:

Below are stats for last 2 weeks of high-level legends.  Before the vulcan buff, it was consistently the least used turret for a year.  It is now far and away the most common turret used and earns the highest experience/hour.  Even when there are 6 opponents with 50% protection it is still playable which I don't think you can say about any other turret.

Nice data.

They killed Thunder, even Isida is still played more. It still provide its owner with a good ratio exp/hour. Gauss provide twice more xp per hour than Railgun (the lowest ratio of all turrets! but the second most played turret).

Regarding drones, defender is the clear winner, twice more than booster.

[DaringDeer 656]

The data I collect is mostly from high efficiency players (used @AbsoluteZero biggest drugger thread top 1000 efficiency list), some friends, and some eSports players.  They are generally all very strong players with mostly full garages.  These players understand what equipment is comparitively strong and will use it and protect against it.  My stats show Vulcan is the most used and best scoring turret across MM and pro battles.  (I can't differentiate.)  

To @wolverine848, people are going to use the protections that make the most sense for the battle.  Lots of Legends still use Thunder so it is going to be protected against often.  I am just saying that it is not frequently used by the people I track.

@Viking4s regarding Railgun, I think usage in my tracking is artificially high because of XP/BP battles.  Also, my tracking uses snapshots of profiles and is dependent on the data there being accurate.  Marcus told me recently that the time usage of drones is not comparable between drones.  It may only track active and cooldown time of drones, not the time when a tanker is equipped with one.  Given that, it is hard to compare any of the drones' usage or statistics.

Edited March 30, 2020 by DaringDeer

[DaringDeer 656]

To compare pre- and post- vulcan buff usage (2/20/2020) see these stats.  First is for post-buff (2/20 to today) and second is pre-buff (2/6 to 2/20).  I reset collection of statistics on 2/6 so don't currently have any data before that date.

[Ethiaa 135]

5 hours ago, DaringDeer said:

To @wolverine848, people are going to use the protections that make the most sense for the battle.  Lots of Legends still use Thunder so it is going to be protected against often.  I am just saying that it is not frequently used by the people I track.

Doesn't that just mean that the people you track, and therefore your data, isn't representative of what people actually use then?

[Viking4s 10,791]

25 minutes ago, Ethiaa said:

Doesn't that just mean that the people you track, and therefore your data, isn't representative of what people actually use then?

It gives an idea about legend player, that play a lot.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

Another thing, does the new Vulcan deal the same damage after overheating? Because once I started to overheat the same damage was being dealt...

[Ethiaa 135]

1 hour ago, Viking4s said:

It gives an idea about legend player, that play a lot.

@DaringDeer says that "Lots of Legends still use Thunder so it is going to be protected against often" but the data doesn't show lots of legends using Thunder. Are you saying they are equipping protection against a turret which only legends that don't play a lot use? That doesn't sound likely. Either the data are skewed to a subsection of legend players, the players in question equip pointless protection, or the data are wrong.

[Viking4s 10,791]

7 minutes ago, Ethiaa said:

@DaringDeer says that "Lots of Legends still use Thunder so it is going to be protected against often" but the data doesn't show lots of legends using Thunder. Are you saying they are equipping protection against a turret which only legends that don't play a lot use? That doesn't sound likely. Either the data are skewed to a subsection of legend players, the players in question equip pointless protection, or the data are wrong.

Data are just data and they represent the pool of players from where the data were collated. Only the interpretation is potentially skewed, and it is true i have exaggerated the thunder fall of grace. The reality is that, as a legend player (or playing with legends) I face these players in MM because there is not that many player left playing tanki and this group plays quite a lot. So these data are use fulls, i have increase protection against Vulcan and Gauss as a result.

As you pointed out they use the thunder protection module a lot while not using thunder them self, which could mean

1/ that the other legends are still using it a lot (one reason could be that they can't afford to have another Mk7+ turret) - like me i have thunder Mk7+ and Railgun

2/ that the thunder module is quite common and max up (probably one of those i maxed up early on) - as you enter a battle you won;t know whom you face, but i would always start with long range (like thunder) and then change if required.

Top legends players are not using thunder suggest that it is not that powerful anymore, and that they have enough money to afford the latest OP turret: this suggest that Vulcan is currently the most powerful turret.

[Ethiaa 135]

So both skewed data and pointless protection?

Fair enough.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

2 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

Another thing, does the new Vulcan deal the same damage after overheating? Because once I started to overheat the same damage was being dealt...

...?

[Viking4s 10,791]

2 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

Another thing, does the new Vulcan deal the same damage after overheating? Because once I started to overheat the same damage was being dealt...

you answered you own question 

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, Viking4s said:

Data are just data and they represent the pool of players from where the data were collated. Only the interpretation is potentially skewed, and it is true i have exaggerated the thunder fall of grace. The reality is that, as a legend player (or playing with legends) I face these players in MM because there is not that many player left playing tanki and this group plays quite a lot. So these data are use fulls, i have increase protection against Vulcan and Gauss as a result.

As you pointed out they use the thunder protection module a lot while not using thunder them self, which could mean

1/ that the other legends are still using it a lot (one reason could be that they can't afford to have another Mk7+ turret) - like me i have thunder Mk7+ and Railgun

2/ that the thunder module is quite common and max up (probably one of those i maxed up early on) - as you enter a battle you won;t know whom you face, but i would always start with long range (like thunder) and then change if required.

Top legends players are not using thunder suggest that it is not that powerful anymore, and that they have enough money to afford the latest OP turret: this suggest that Vulcan is currently the most powerful turret.

And yet the data in the table does not support this.  It is near the bottom of the list for usage.

Why use a max module when the turret it protects against is not used commonly now.  Better off using a lower module that protects against the turrets you are actually facing in battle.

If they have enough money to afford the "latest OP turret" they have enough money to upgrade modules other than Thunder.

Why is Vulcan module not even in top-3 usage if 1) Turret is OP and 2) Turret is now most used?  The table has contradictory numbers.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Yeah it's become a lot more popular and seems to be very OP, especially when paired with booster or the hornet overdrive. It drains the health of MK8 viking in a second or two.

The overdrives are a problem. Hornet is too strong in the right hands and the titan dome is very annoying.

[Viking4s 10,791]

19 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

And yet the data in the table does not support this.  It is near the bottom of the list for usage.

Why use a max module when the turret it protects against is not used commonly now.  Better off using a lower module that protects against the turrets you are actually facing in battle.

If they have enough money to afford the "latest OP turret" they have enough money to upgrade modules other than Thunder.

Why is Vulcan module not even in top-3 usage if 1) Turret is OP and 2) Turret is now most used?  The table has contradictory numbers.

This data is 600 very active/top legends, the legends that use thunder are the other legends like me, who play less and have less crystals, they are more than the 600, so you will find more of them. You cannot applies this 600 elites hardcore players to the rest of the crowd. So as the other player pointed out this set of data is not representative of all the current players.

Like me, as a less active player and with only a newly legend rank, I have 2 maxed up turrets that can use to compete and earn more crystals. Until I save up enough crystal to buy something else, and upgrade it up to Mk7 - 10 (at least), I am using my strongest turrets. As I see thunder on the battlefield (including me), it is indeed still used by legends (but clearly not used by the top 600 as shown by the data). The players with thunder I saw, were actually skilled players making good use of the splash damage, using walls, other tanks and ground to reach me - they might not be the elite, but they play well with what they have.

IMO the top 600 are so powerful that no type of turret actually can really harm them, so they can keep the same protection module all the time - I don't think they bother changing it, not even not using a Vulcan protection module, furthermore as they use long-range turret they are not bothered with the short range turret thus not using the short range protection module. My strategy is different, historically i never bought overlapping 3-modules, then when the separation module crisis came i end up with everything single protection module, except spider-mine. Then I had to buy all the module for each new turret introduction (magnum, sticker and gauss). And to save crystals I MUed then all up to 42% maximum (after that it is too expensive for less and less protection). So for every battle I tailor the 3 protections. 

Thunder is a splash damage turret, so even if you are not the primary target it can still wound you (add to this the viking OD). All of these can explain the use of the thunder module among to 600.

The data cover both MM and pro-battles (including parkour), very different game play that can influence the overall set of data adding more contradiction.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Viking4s