Please for the Love of God Kill the Railgun-Hornet META

[Viking4s 10,791]

[cosmic666 1,055]

2 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Don't talk about ODs, because hornet is not became popilar when the ODs came. Also, players could choose about wasp and hornet, but why did they choose hornet? Simple. Not because it was OP (remember, that wasp and hornet has the same health, but was has more speed), but because it was more stable than wasp. 

Ok this is my last reply to you, try to engage brain activity on this one if that is possible. FACT-hornet overdrive is the only overdrive that can ignore spawn protection. FACT-when equipped with magnum (the worst offender with hornet) it one shots anything in battle regardless of protections including titans dome. Seriously i could go on for at least 30 mins why hornet is OP but i'm not going to. I'm a decent player and the only thing that really bothers me in battle is an activated hornet overdrive. The closest thing in battle that has the ability of hornet is gauss EMP, but at least that very rarely one shots you, unlike mag/hornet combo, which does it with ease and with little effort from the player using this OP combo. These are THE FACTS that play out in battle on a very regular basis.  1 last thing, i never once implied that the overdrive of hornet made the hull more popular, my argument is that the overdrive associated with hornet is to OP, and therefore needs a serious nerf to bring it back in line with the other overdrives in the game. And that my hornet loving friend is that. I REST MY CASE.

[Cleric 1,385]

21 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Don't talk about ODs, because hornet is not became popilar when the ODs came. Also, players could choose about wasp and hornet, but why did they choose hornet? Simple. Not because it was OP (remember, that wasp and hornet has the same health, but was has more speed), but because it was more stable than wasp. 

The point is Hornet is clearly overshadow Wasp since apparently that extra stability is much more important than the little extra speed in this game, proven by many players including you. If a game element is too strong even with the highest possible cost, it is OP.

 

19 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

You mean shaft? Well, to tell the truth, i don't like people who just see something about a someone, and instantly think that he is like that... I am using shaft with LC, and sometimes, i can't even oneshot medium hulls. Also, if i could, why is it a problem. If i chosse a longer reload for oneshotting heavy hulls, why do you mimd that?

Let say we have a Hornet + Railgun combo, a classic combo. Then this dude is using Booster drone and Large calibre rounds augments for Railgun. Let's assume that everything is fully upgraded since those are the players who usually self-proclaimed as "pro" (Please, no one has position to claim himself as pro in a P2W game, easy to learn game).

Min. damage = 800 * (1 + 40%) * (2 + 2) * (1 + 5%) = 4704

Max. damage = 1600* (1 + 40%) * (2 + 2) * (1 + 5%) = 9408

 

BTW, fully upgraded heavy hulls have 4000 health. 

Also, Hornet's OD IGNORES ANY PROTECTION, including the spawn protection.

 

I do maths, and maths are always objective.

[Cleric 1,385]

Also, did I mention that @mjmj5558 is using MK7 equipment which it is normally not accessible in his rank. I bet you properly think you are really good at the game because you are

1. using the well-known OP combo
2. with over-levelled equipment

To wrack other players.

 

And for some reason, you managed to achieve low K/D with it, how??

Edited September 1, 2020 by Aegis

[cosmic666 1,055]

10 minutes ago, Aegis said:

Also, did I mention that @mjmj5558 is using MK7 equipment which it is normally not accessible in his rank. I bet you properly think you are really good at the game because you are

1. using the well-known OP combo
2. with over-levelled equipment

To wrack other players.

 

And for some reason, you managed to achieve low K/D with it, how??

He is a buyer, that is clear. His low k/d means he gets killed way to often regardless what combo he uses. I would not usually bother with this type of player in battle as they don't really pose a threat in deciding the outcome of battles. Saying that, low k/d does not always mean a bad player. He is my rank, general, if i come across him i will no doubt see for myself how good he actually is.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

43 minutes ago, Viking4s said:

You’re right. Bring out the BUG SPRAY

[mjmj5558 2,346]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

No.

It's because there is absolutely no way to mitigate (counter) the one-shot kills I will suffer. 

All the other hull ODs have a counter.  Hornet OD - there is no counter. ("Killing" the hornet does not rate as a counter since you can't kill the hornet that just one-shot you).

And they have OD way more often than they should - since it lasts 20 seconds and they can generate a new OD while their current OD is active. Killing tanks is one of the best ways to generate OD - and hornet OD excels at that.

Can you please twll the counter of viking, mammoth OD?

[mjmj5558 2,346]

46 minutes ago, Aegis said:

The point is Hornet is clearly overshadow Wasp since apparently that extra stability is much more important than the little extra speed in this game, proven by many players including you. If a game element is too strong even with the highest possible cost, it is OP.

 

Let say we have a Hornet + Railgun combo, a classic combo. Then this dude is using Booster drone and Large calibre rounds augments for Railgun. Let's assume that everything is fully upgraded since those are the players who usually self-proclaimed as "pro" (Please, no one has position to claim himself as pro in a P2W game, easy to learn game).

Min. damage = 800 * (1 + 40%) * (2 + 2) * (1 + 5%) = 4704

Max. damage = 1600* (1 + 40%) * (2 + 2) * (1 + 5%) = 9408

 

BTW, fully upgraded heavy hulls have 4000 health. 

Also, Hornet's OD IGNORES ANY PROTECTION, including the spawn protection.

 

I do maths, and maths are always objective.

Just a quick remimder: booster only lasts for one shot. As i said before, hornet shouldn't ignore spawn protection, that is true.

38 minutes ago, Aegis said:

Also, did I mention that @mjmj5558 is using MK7 equipment which it is normally not accessible in his rank. I bet you properly think you are really good at the game because you are

1. using the well-known OP combo
2. with over-levelled equipment

To wrack other players.

 

And for some reason, you managed to achieve low K/D with it, how??

Well, some information abot me (or my game history shortly): i started playing in 2015, mainly used rico and sometimes shaft and isida. My overall k/d was 0.2, and i was A REAL BIG-BIG noob. I was wo3 when mobile version came out. I started to dominate, win matches, gain crystals and upgrade my equipment. I bought rail (my worst decision in the game) and started playing with it. I played with it al lot, and i had it m2-10 at captain. After the mk update, i got it mk7, so i continued upgrading. Some weeks after the mk update, i joind MS and i realized that there are much better turrets to play, and my dream was a shaft kit. I searched for it for 6 months when i finally got one, instantly started upgrading it. It was a brilliant decision: i'm having a lot of fun with it. Later, in the end of july, i grinded a lot and completed all special mission worth 12 ultras. I got stun immunity for dictator, and i started searching for a dictator kit, i got rico-dictator mk7 few days later. The most important thing is: 

 

31 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

He is a buyer, that is clear. His low k/d means he gets killed way to often regardless what combo he uses. I would not usually bother with this type of player in battle as they don't really pose a threat in deciding the outcome of battles. Saying that, low k/d does not always mean a bad player. He is my rank, general, if i come across him i will no doubt see for myself how good he actually is.

i NEVER BUYED ANYTHING. NEVER. Not even 1 tankions, a battle pass, NOTHING. The thing that helped me to gain crystals is that i played with few equipment, so i could spent crystals to upgrade them, and now, i can have good results, get more crystals, and upgrade more. The reason for my low k/d is the bad starting, and using SN.My k/d is improving day-to-day, my avarage theese days should be around 1,3-5.

 

48 minutes ago, Aegis said:

Also, did I mention that @mjmj5558 is using MK7 equipment which it is normally not accessible in his rank. I bet you properly think you are really good at the game because you are

1. using the well-known OP combo
2. with over-levelled equipment

To wrack other players.

 

And for some reason, you managed to achieve low K/D with it, how??

Mk7 kits for crystals are aviable for my rank. I got to of my mk7s from them, and 2 from the mk update.

Just a reminder for you all: i know that you will never realise the thing i want to say. I don't want conflicts, i just want to HELP you. Help you to realise that there are other things in the game, and the can give a lot of fun to you. Instead of raging because of a hornet killed me, i just continue playing and have fun. Try to do the same!

[Venerable 2,970]

Whoa whoa whoa.

This topic is getting toxic.

Guys calm down.

A request to all: Please do not attack any player in your text-walls so viciously. Simply post your opinion in an easy to understand way, and discuss the opinions of others in a composed way. Do not flare up and insult each other!

So, here's my opinion-

1. The active-time of Hornet OD definitely needs a nerf. It's too long, considering that Railgun LCR (or even Railgun Scout with DD), Magnum (sans augments) can one-shot multiple tanks within that time.
2. Hornet is a beautiful and wonderful hull in pro battles with ODs disabled. It's only "OP" in MM.
3. Hornet OD can counter most ODs, and have no effect on others. This is, in itself, troublesome. It essentially has no counters!

There's one point though. Please don't "accuse" players with advanced equipment at ranks below the unlocking-rank of that equipment of being "buyers". The M--->Mk conversion resulted in many players getting Mk6-7s way before their unlocking. I have friends who have greatly benefited from this update. And they most definitely don't buy.

@cosmic666 @cosmic666, if I remember right, you have Mk6 Titan and Mk6 Smoky in one of your accounts that has a rank so low, that you get crystal boxes in battle. Many may "accuse" you of being a buyer. I remember that I myself was aghast at that time. But now I know better- the only way you could've gotten Mk6s at that low rank is the M--->Mk update. So buddy, my only request to you- don't jump to conclusions and indirectly or directly insult any player. Thanks for understanding, mate!  

Frankly, low KD ratio means absolutely nothing. Having a high KD ratio definitely means that you are a decently good player, if not better. But when it comes to low KD ratio, there are just too many anomalies. You could be a Parkour player, or a player that focuses more on the objective of the game mode (like only capping flags, or points) and hence gets killed more than he kills. 

 

And honestly, until the developers decide that Hornet overdrive is over-powered, we really have no choice but to hide, as the venerable Viking4s has posted somewhere above!

Again, Hornet is a perfectly balanced hull. Only problem is it's long-lasting OD, which is troublesome only in MM; I really don't think anyone disagrees with this particular point.

 

 

 

[E_polypterus 2,374]

Yeah, let’s have a working lunch to discuss the issue...

[cosmic666 1,055]

15 minutes ago, Venerable said:

Whoa whoa whoa.

This topic is getting toxic.

Guys calm down.

A request to all: Please do not attack any player in your text-walls so viciously. Simply post your opinion in an easy to understand way, and discuss the opinions of others in a composed way. Do not flare up and insult each other!

So, here's my opinion-

1. The active-time of Hornet OD definitely needs a nerf. It's too long, considering that Railgun LCR (or even Railgun Scout with DD), Magnum (sans augments) can one-shot multiple tanks within that time.
2. Hornet is a beautiful and wonderful hull in pro battles with ODs disabled. It's only "OP" in MM.
3. Hornet OD can counter most ODs, and have no effect on others. This is, in itself, troublesome. It essentially has no counters!

There's one point though. Please don't "accuse" players with advanced equipment at ranks below the unlocking-rank of that equipment of being "buyers". The M--->Mk conversion resulted in many players getting Mk6-7s way before their unlocking. I have friends who have greatly benefited from this update. And they most definitely don't buy.

@cosmic666 @cosmic666, if I remember right, you have Mk6 Titan and Mk6 Smoky in one of your accounts that has a rank so low, that you get crystal boxes in battle. Many may "accuse" you of being a buyer. I remember that I myself was aghast at that time. But now I know better- the only way you could've gotten Mk6s at that low rank is the M--->Mk update. So buddy, my only request to you- don't jump to conclusions and indirectly or directly insult any player. Thanks for understanding, mate!  

Frankly, low KD ratio means absolutely nothing. Having a high KD ratio definitely means that you are a decently good player, if not better. But when it comes to low KD ratio, there are just too many anomalies. You could be a Parkour player, or a player that focuses more on the objective of the game mode (like only capping flags, or points) and hence gets killed more than he kills. 

 

And honestly, until the developers decide that Hornet overdrive is over-powered, we really have no choice but to hide, as the venerable Viking4s has posted somewhere above!

Again, Hornet is a perfectly balanced hull. Only problem is it's long-lasting OD, which is troublesome only in MM; I really don't think anyone disagrees with this particular point.

 

 

 

Well i disagree. i agree with you about the MK update, and the K/D, but saying hornets overdrive is not OP and PERFECTLY balanced is beyond comprehension bordering on the ridiculous. One scenario for you to reflect on regarding your statement, that hornets only apparent issue is the length of it's overdrive. Let's say titan had a overdrive that lasted a full 2 minutes, would it's shield prevent a mag/hornet from taken it out with 1 shot with it's overdrive activated. We both no the answer to that question. It's OP as simple as that, and has a huge advantage in battle which is the reason it is getting criticised so much. The devs have left it OP for a very good reason which they have neglected to share with the players. Imo the reason is $$$. 

[Venerable 2,970]

10 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

Well i disagree. i agree with you about the MK update, and the K/D, but saying hornets overdrive is not OP and PERFECTLY balanced is beyond comprehension bordering on the ridiculous. One scenario for you to reflect on regarding your statement, that hornets only apparent issue is the length of it's overdrive. Let's say titan had a overdrive that lasted a full 2 minutes, would it's shield prevent a mag/hornet from taken it out with 1 shot with it's overdrive activated. We both no the answer to that question. It's OP as simple as that, and has a huge advantage in battle which is the reason it is getting criticised so much. The devs have left it OP for a very good reason which they have neglected to share with the players. Imo the reason is $$$. 

Hey hey, read my post once again, and very carefully.

Did I say Hornet's overdrive is "perfectly" balanced? The overdrive is "OP", but not to the extent that we should start hating Hornets and start hate-wars. 

Hornet as a hull has no balance issues. 

Again, I never said that the overdrive is "not OP" or "perfectly balanced".

10 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

would it's shield prevent a mag/hornet from taken it out with 1 shot with it's overdrive activated.

Of course it won't! But don't you think that if the duration of Hornet OD is nerfed, then perhaps only that Titan will get killed? It'll be almost the same as Viking OD in terms of kills. So, the Hornet will get less kills than usual, and then there won't be many players complaining, as they won't be killed much!

Edited September 1, 2020 by Venerable

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

Can you please twll the counter of viking, mammoth OD?

Viking... Titan Dome.  Dictator with RK, DA (+defender), module and OD handy might also survive - especially if it's less than 7 seconds.  I've killeds viking before they used up their 7 seconds.  You don't get that opportunity vs one-shot kills like hornet.

Mammoth... Hunter, Wasp Bomb, Hornet OD,    Viking OD ... basically anything that can kill the mammoth before it gets in range.  Unlike Hornet the mammoth has to close the distance.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

2 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Mammoth... Hunter, Wasp Bomb, Hornet OD,    Viking OD ... basically anything that can kill the mammoth before it gets in range.  Unlike Hornet the mammoth has to close the distance.

Wait, you said that we should talk about killing hornet as a counter, then why do we count it here? Hornet OD has the same counter what hunter has: itself.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 minute ago, mjmj5558 said:

Wait, you said that we should talk about killing hornet as a counter, then why do we count it here? Hornet OD has the same counter what hunter has: itself.

Are you saying you don't understand the difference between ranges in Mammoth OD and Hunter OD versus Hornet OD?

[mjmj5558 2,346]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

Are you saying you don't understand the difference between ranges in Mammoth OD and Hunter OD versus Hornet OD?

Wait. Horent OD range is 0 metres? Why? Because mammoth and hunter make effects on other tanks, while hornet od makes effect on your tank. Not comperisable.

[wolverine848 13,097]

19 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Wait. Horent OD range is 0 metres? Why? Because mammoth and hunter make effects on other tanks, while hornet od makes effect on your tank. Not comperisable.

If you are going to continue to be obtuse I am done responding to you.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

29 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

If you are going to continue to be obtuse I am done responding to you.

I feel the same. You will never understand me, i will never understand you. It's time to forgot this topics.

[cosmic666 1,055]

4 hours ago, Venerable said:

Hey hey, read my post once again, and very carefully.

Did I say Hornet's overdrive is "perfectly" balanced? The overdrive is "OP", but not to the extent that we should start hating Hornets and start hate-wars. 

Hornet as a hull has no balance issues. 

Again, I never said that the overdrive is "not OP" or "perfectly balanced".

Of course it won't! But don't you think that if the duration of Hornet OD is nerfed, then perhaps only that Titan will get killed? It'll be almost the same as Viking OD in terms of kills. So, the Hornet will get less kills than usual, and then there won't be many players complaining, as they won't be killed much!

i give up goodbye

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

7 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

Wait. Horent OD range is 0 metres? Why? Because mammoth and hunter make effects on other tanks, while hornet od makes effect on your tank. Not comperisable.

You do realize that being a wise guy isn't helping you with your arguments, right?

[Venerable 2,970]

8 hours ago, cosmic666 said:

i give up goodbye

Sure.

However, I'd like to make one thing clear- we should clearly separate the Overdrive from the hull. This is what I've done in my previous posts. When it comes to MM, where Overdrives are enabled, I don't think anyone has problems with the hull. But the hull combined with the Overdrive is deadly.

In Pro battles with OD disabled, Hornet is a perfectly balanced hull.

Again, if you read my posts carefully, I have clearly distinguished between the hull and the overdrive. I have also expressed concern when it comes to the overpowered nature of the overdrive. 

Honestly, I don't understand why you think I like the overdrive, or why you think that I'm defending the overdrive. 

I'm only defending the hull, because the hull has no balance issues.

Btw, combined with the problems of the MM system, Hornet OD is OP, there's no denying that.

[wolverine848 13,097]

10 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

You do realize that being a wise guy isn't helping you with your arguments, right?

he/she is either clueless or purposely being ignorant - neither looks good on him/her.

[alkyng 3,080]

18 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

If you are going to continue to be obtuse I am done responding to you.

 

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

he/she is either clueless or purposely being ignorant - neither looks good on him/her.

lol, you are right!

 

 

 

 

but wait,, it doesn't looks the same in the discussion with you!!

Quote

 

[E_polypterus 2,374]

Hornet od needs a nerf. But the reason fer it to be OP is cuz of the alterations.  Most of Those things make the game unbalanced as well. -Ugh  I hate them more than anything- Remove them or at least fairly nerf them, and hornet won’t be as much of a trouble as it is rn in MM. You won’t see a very powerful hornet in battle without at least a single alteration would you? 

Ignoring spawn protection and fully ignoring protection modules is irksome imo but they would compensate fer a reduced active time fer the od and maybe also increased charge time. 

[Viking4s 10,791]

1 hour ago, E_polypterus said:

Hornet od needs a nerf. But the reason fer it to be OP is cuz of the alterations.  Most of Those things make the game unbalanced as well. -Ugh  I hate them more than anything- Remove them or at least fairly nerf them, and hornet won’t be as much of a trouble as it is rn in MM. You won’t see a very powerful hornet in battle without at least a single alteration would you? 

Ignoring spawn protection and fully ignoring protection modules is irksome imo but they would compensate fer a reduced active time fer the od and maybe also increased charge time. 

They are called Augment now and for a good reason. As with Viking OD, developers can limit the number of Augment that interact with the OD, even Drones if they want to.

Regarding reduction of active time, that would be a drawback for other players that beneficiate from the yellow outlining of enemies tanks and the display of health. Initially the Hornet OD is a support Overdrive (like Dictator and Ares) it benefits the owner and its allies. So reducing the active time is not the best solution for nerfing. Spawn protection can be removed, that is small thing but linked to a huge emotional response.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Viking4s