declined Prohibit the switching of teams in regular PRO battles

[von_Cronberg 260]

I suggest to make technically impossible the switching of teams in regular PRO battles. Once an account has joined a team in a battle, it would still be technically able to leave it, rejoin it, several times so if it wishes, but it would not be technically able to join the opposing team in the same battle. Format battles (Parkour, XP/BP, etc) would not be affected by the change.

The reason for this suggestion is that the conduct of switching teams serves no legitimate purpose, but is associated with a pandora's box of abuses. Among these are collaborative cheating of the crystal reward system, violations of the spirit of the team based game, and emanations of a generally despicable personality of a player. To keep PRO battles fun for fair and decent players and customers of Tanki, these abuses should be made technically impossible.

[Maf 32,855]

Declined

Imposing such restrictions violates the free nature of custom battles and causes much more harm (inconvenience) than good. If players are switching teams in order to break rules, you can use /vote to report them. Otherwise, simply switching a team is a completely legitimate action.

Moreover, once funds are completely removed from PRO battles, this will no longer be an issue.

[mjmj5558 2,400]

46 minutes ago, Maf said:

 

Moreover, once funds are completely removed from PRO battles, this will no longer be an issue.

That was the worst idea tanki ever did.

[von_Cronberg 260]

1 hour ago, Maf said:

simply switching a team is a completely legitimate action.

That may be your opinion, but you might wish to take note that others hold a different opinion. Not sure if you did or do plan to forward this suggestion to developers despite not fitting your own opinion, but it would honor your person if you did.

I would like to add that my main issue with this game is not any technical stuff, or the pay to win (rather pay to have fun) trend in development. My main issue is the kind of personality that appears to become more prevalent among active players in this game, and your quoted comment is perfectly representative of that kind of personality.

 

1 hour ago, Maf said:

Moreover, once funds are completely removed from PRO battles, this will no longer be an issue.

Should funds ever be removed from regular PRO battles, then nothing would be an issue any more, because the game would be dead.

[coconuttree 520]

1 hour ago, Maf said:

Moreover, once funds are completely removed from PRO battles, this will no longer be an issue.

Will XP also be removed from pro battles?

[Maf 32,855]

1 hour ago, von_Cronberg said:

That may be your opinion, but you might wish to take note that others hold a different opinion.

Ok, so in that case can you please explain in more detail what you mean by this "pandora's box of abuse"? What actions does a player do after they switch team which is abuse, but isn't already punishable by current game rules?

1 hour ago, von_Cronberg said:

Should funds ever be removed from regular PRO battles, then nothing would be an issue any more, because the game would be dead.

The amount of players regularly playing PRO battles is less than 5%. Even their complete removal wouldn't have significant effect on the game as a whole, while removal of funds is just a logical step towards minimising abuse of the economy. I don't think there's any other multiplayer game that also gives players the ability to earn in-game currency by playing in completely customisable games.

This is another reason why ideas like this have little to no chance of being implemented. It's not worth making updates for a feature that's used by a small minority of players.

But for this particular idea, the main reason why it won't happen is inconvenience, like I said in the first post. By removing ability to switch teams, you're blocking people from:

• Being able to switch teams after they join the wrong side accidentally
• Switching teams to balance out forces in a small battle (e.g. making 4v2 into a 3v3)
• Being able to switch teams after their friend joins the other side and there's an open slot

[Maf 32,855]

43 minutes ago, coconuttree said:

Will XP also be removed from pro battles?

I don't want to speculate, but that would make sense.

[coconuttree 520]

8 minutes ago, Maf said:

I don't want to speculate, but that would make sense.

Would it? That mean we can play infinitely without needing to worry about ranking (which would be great and very welcome )

[Guest]

I'm just wondering what's Maf gonna do when this game dies?

[Maf 32,855]

1 minute ago, coconuttree said:

Would it? That mean we can play infinitely without needing to worry about ranking (which would be great and very welcome )

Exactly. PRO battles should be for fun, testing, formats, custom games, parties, etc.
Doing anything in them should not affect your actual progress.

[coconuttree 520]

Completely agree. I hope the decision making ppl think the same

[von_Cronberg 260]

2 hours ago, Maf said:

I don't think there's any other multiplayer game that also gives players the ability to earn in-game currency by playing in completely customisable games.

Yes, that is a unique selling point of Tanki. Companies across countries and industries give McKinsey and Boston Consulting zillions of dollars to find such a thing for them. Because nothing is more effective to convince customers.

2 hours ago, Maf said:

The amount of players regularly playing PRO battles is less than 5%. Even their complete removal wouldn't have significant effect on the game as a whole

The truth of the first sentence apparently depends on the definition of the terms "player" and "regularly". How many "players" do play MMS "regularly" under this definition? Anyway, my humble anecdotal evidence from some dozens of friends is that everybody plays PRO games at least now and then, many almost exclusively (for me it is some 50/50). And I observe a strong positive correlation between paying significant money for Tanki and liking PRO games. So I think the second sentence is most certainly false.

[CabbageRoll 3,044]

3 hours ago, Maf said:

Exactly. PRO battles should be for fun, testing, formats, custom games, parties, etc.
Doing anything in them should not affect your actual progress.

 

Ok actually this doesnt seem like a bad idea. I can massacre people with my mk7 combo on mid ranks infinitely. If there is another one i switch battle. Seems reasonable.

As we know that parkour battles do add progress towards K/D, this will too. While this has no actual purpose it boosts morale and you look like awesome guy if you have big K/D.

[Maf 32,855]

10 minutes ago, CabbageRoll said:

I can massacre people with my mk7 combo on mid ranks infinitely

"But it's only PRO battles, so it doesn't matter"

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Maf said:

Exactly. PRO battles should be for fun, testing, formats, custom games, parties, etc.
Doing anything in them should not affect your actual progress.

Nice, you've just turned Tanki Online into Matchmaking Online.

If I could have a few dollars for the number of Tanki YouTubers who quit and now do Fortnite videos instead I'd be a pretty rich guy.

[Guest]

I'd like to hear the mighty Maf's reasons for why this game has lost so many players... let's see if his reasons stand up to scrutiny.

[Viking4s 10,822]

Too much freedom in pro battle? Do you want MM in Pro-battle?

I have a feeling that the switchers are the same as the one that leave MM when the score reach 3-0.

 

[Viking4s 10,822]

6 hours ago, von_Cronberg said:

That may be your opinion, but you might wish to take note that others hold a different opinion. Not sure if you did or do plan to forward this suggestion to developers despite not fitting your own opinion, but it would honor your person if you did.

I would like to add that my main issue with this game is not any technical stuff, or the pay to win (rather pay to have fun) trend in development. My main issue is the kind of personality that appears to become more prevalent among active players in this game, and your quoted comment is perfectly representative of that kind of personality.

Should funds ever be removed from regular PRO battles, then nothing would be an issue any more, because the game would be dead.

Remember how TO sold MM to us, if TO render secure the pro-battles - MM no longer serve a purpose, and that is the opposite of what they want.

 

28 minutes ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

I'd like to hear the mighty Maf's reasons for why this game has lost so many players... let's see if his reasons stand up to scrutiny.

I believe the mighty maf already answered that question and even quoted the Dev and/or the CM on the subject. 

[Maf 32,855]

46 minutes ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

I'd like to hear the mighty Maf's reasons for why this game has lost so many players... let's see if his reasons stand up to scrutiny.

I'm tired of rewriting the same thing over and over again. Just read the article.

48 minutes ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

Nice, you've just turned Tanki Online into Matchmaking Online.

This has been the case ever since MM was added, and it's pretty obvious. It's evolved in this direction over time.

Back in 2011, there were normal battles with fully customisable settings, except for one - the "no-supplies" setting, where you had to pay crystals to join such battles. 
Then around 2016, there were normal battles with limited settings, while to unlock fully custom settings you had to buy the PRO pass.
Nowadays, there's just standard MM battles that have all the good stuff, whereas custom battles are a bonus feature that exists for fun.

Basically, instead of having two primary types of battles (supply/no-supply, or standard/PRO), there's only Matchmaking, while the battle list has moved into the background and become an additional cool feature similar to the clan system, events, or esports.
This is how it normally works in games.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Maf said:

I'm tired of rewriting the same thing over and over again. Just read the article.

I'm asking for YOUR personal opinion, not what the devs said in a livestream a year ago 

[Maf 32,855]

14 minutes ago, von_Cronberg said:

Anyway, my humble anecdotal evidence from some dozens of friends is that everybody plays PRO games at least now and then

You're Legend 20. It's highly likely that your circle of friends involves many other high rank players, for whom default battles are no longer interesting enough and so they seek more engaging ways to play the game. However, the vast majority of players are at lower ranks and they're the ones the gameplay is being catered towards. They're the type of people who don't care about formats, clans, advanced battles - they just want to play a few quick battles every day and complete missions. For them anything that affects PRO battles is completely irrelevant.

3 hours ago, von_Cronberg said:

Yes, that is a unique selling point of Tanki.

The USP of Tanki used to be the fact that it was one of the only in-browser full 3D online games with quick registration. That's what got me and millions of other people into the game. I clearly remember clicking on a Tanki ad in 2011 expecting some mediocre 2D strategy flash game, but when I loaded into a full 3D map, I was instantly amazed.

Nowadays there are plenty of better games which also work in-browser with free registration. So it's no longer unique to Tanki. And the ability to earn currency and EXP in custom battles is not a USP for new players, but a tool that experienced players use to unintentionally exploit and damage the economy.

[Maf 32,855]

1 hour ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

I'm asking for YOUR personal opinion, not what the devs said in a livestream a year ago 

A lot of things in that livestream are still relevant.

I believe the explanation they gave, which is paraphrased in that topic. I also believe that most updates released over the course of this game's existence were sensible decisions. There are definitely some releases, which were done very poorly — developers themselves admit it. But all the biggest mistakes were made in the beginning of this game's existence. Back then AlternativaGames (previously called AlternativaPlatform) had zero experience making games, let alone MMOs. Tank was just a software demo, and it just happened to get popular enough that AP devs saw potential to turn it into a serious business.

The way the game was set up from the start limited a lot of its future development potential, the result of which we see now. The mechanics of battle creation, supplies, equipment upgrades, protective paints, in-game shop and currency — all of that could have been executed much better, and changing it years later after everything was well established caused a lot of issues.

But for the most part, updates are "good". The word "good" is subjective in this case, because it's practically impossible to benefit every party with one change. If there's any update you think is "bad", then it most likely means the update was not meant to benefit you in the first place. It aimed at another party, be it new players, buyers, the economy, casual/mobile players, etc. 

 

If the game as we see it today, with Matchmaking, Challenges, fundless PRO battles, HTML5 and other stuff current players so passionately hate, existed from the very beginning in 2009 without any older versions, players would absolutely love it and the game would have millions more active players, probably becoming revolutionary. If then developers would start going backwards and changing the game into "old tanki", I guarantee you there would be incredible amounts of hate towards such changes, because overall the game is much better now than it was in any previous years.

The only time where I understand and sympathise with the players' negativity is in case of blatantly P2W updates, like the augments, drones, early access equipment kits, etc. As for everything else — you just need to look at it from a different perspective ad understand why each update is necessary, even if it doesn't benefit you in particular.

[mjmj5558 2,400]

2 hours ago, Maf said:

I'm tired of rewriting the same thing over and over again. Just read the article.

Well, none of the plans that are there are ready for thevmobile version.  I just waiting and waiting....but nothing comes.

[von_Cronberg 260]

1 hour ago, Maf said:

You're Legend 20. It's highly likely that your circle of friends involves many other high rank players for whom default battles are no longer interesting enough and so they seek more engaging ways to play the game. (...) And the ability to earn currency and EXP in custom battles is (...) a tool that experienced players use to unintentionally exploit and damage the economy.

By and large, I had a 50/50 quota between regular battles (with supplies, and later also overdrives and drones) and PRO battles (without all those for me) over all those seven years. I always use supplies to the max in regular battles, which for me is a necessity to enjoy those, and spent a good one thousend Euros in total. Within the economic frame described here, I am now, at legend level 21, finishing a garage of completely maxed turrets, hulls and modules.

Was this Tanki biography exploitation of the game economy? I do not think so. If this is exploitation, what would a non-exploitative path look like? Should I have spent two or three thousand Euros instead of one thousand (this lower sum possible because of crystals earned from PRO games without supplies, in particular those in CP mode)? Should I have suffered along the way in regular battles for not being able to use supplies to the max? Should I have waited to legend level 40 for a fully maxed garage?

I do think the game economy is perfectly fine including the possibility to win crystals in PRO games without supplies.

However, the aspect most important to me here is that PRO games without supplies (in particular those in CTF mode) provide an experience of authentic Tanki enjoyment which the ever more overpaced regular battles do not offer. If funds are removed there, this would not deter me from playing them, because I do not care much about crystals any more. But it would drain the player base in those games of the large number of players who do more or less care about crystals (XP/BP in CP mode, probably the most mesmerizing experience Tanki had to offer, was dead from the day when funds were removed). And that, in turn, would make me and many others wonder if we should really go on buying all these container sales when Tanki robs us of the finest opprtunities to enjoy their contents.

[wolverine848 13,152]

1 hour ago, Maf said:

If the game as we see it today, with Matchmaking, Challenges, fundless PRO battles, HTML5 and other stuff current players so passionately hate, existed from the very beginning in 2009 without any older versions, players would absolutely love it and the game would have millions more active players, probably becoming revolutionary.

You're not serious are you?