category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[VIC2000 92]

14 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Just because something has been OP does NOT mean it "deserves" to be unpowered for a while - this is NOT proper balancing.

Devs seem to think so.

They manipulate the game to increase cash flow. By doing this they ensure that there will ALWAYS be a imbalance, which gives a VERY BIG advantage to those who have the means to exploit this deliberate ploy that the devs continue to do at the expense of fair play. Paladin was never intended as a support hull but a easy cash maker, just like the flying hack and the numerous other OP gimmicks that they have brought out.

TO is trash and has been for quite awhile now. It will not get any better, only worse.

 

[alkyng 3,080]

17 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

OK, well Hopper is most definitely currently the worst hull, as it is flipped absurdly easily. You can still win games with it, but you will have a harder time doing so than with any other hull - and you will be losing more points to self-destruction than any other hull, which is not fun gameplay at all.

As for the second part of your post, I heavily disagree. Perhaps using Hopper was a bad example (as many players have built up a strong hatred of the hull), so then let's use Shaft (before it was recently buffed to be viable again). Shaft was taken from OP to pretty much useless for quite a while, until the recent buff. Just because something has been OP does NOT mean it "deserves" to be unpowered for a while - this is NOT proper balancing.

The way that you are talking about "balancing" here is the way the developers are doing it currently (albeit that you want this for different reasons - because you want "revenge" against Paladin (and formely Hopper) for being OP). This is not a good way to balance games, and it is not a good way to think - if we want to achieve true "balance" (that is, with as many items as possible viable, and everything as close in power as possible) then we don't want to make things either underpowered or overpowered. The developers tendancy to make things very OP for a while, and then nerf them to uselessness (or the opposite) is very frustrating in a game where you have to spend a lot of time and money to upgrade items - you never know what to buy or upgrade, it is so unstable.

So I urge you to re-think your opinions of what good balancing looks like, because with an attitude like that you are encouraging the developers' worst tendancies - to implement dramatic over-nerfs and over-buffs, which many of us hate.

I will tell you a fact that seems to be absent from your thinking.. I'm not the most neutral or impartial one in the forum. So yes , if you remember how the old 5s of stun railgun was irritating , and I see the players who deadly defending it. I wont be a wiseman or follow the constructive criticism thinking after it get nerfed. Definitely No

ps I like how you are very good in choosing verbs and accuse me as I want "revenge" .....

Edited December 23, 2021 by asem.harbi

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:18 AM, DarkPredator said:

 

Topic Merged

[Desghidorah 58]

On 12/8/2021 at 8:32 AM, DestrotankAI9 said:

I definitely think Hopper needs a buff - it is honestly the weakest hull in the game right now. But tbh I think the overdrive is fine (and it even got buffed back to 3 second stun). I think the stability (esp. during the overdrive) is simply far too low - it just needs more stability. I know many people don't like Hopper but ye - it is the worst hull in the game now. You can still win with it, but you can win more easily with other hulls (except when it comes to Hunter golds).

No. I set the whole feild on fire in Sandbox Remastered map using Firebird.

[qwds 185]

Idea:
Changing or creating a hull which has a similar playstyle to the Droideka in the Star Wars Battlefront games. Not necessarily the shield, rolling like a ball, machine gun-like weapons, but its abilities and weaknesses.

The Droideka playstyle:
It has two modes: move very fast but it can't shoot or use the shield, or it can shoot, use the shield but moves very slowly. As a Droideka, this forces you to use the fast mode to get close to enemies, then change to the shield and shooting mode - a change that takes a moment of not being able to do anything, as you fold out your weapons and legs, making you very vulnerable. Without the shield you have very little health. If you're attacked by the Droideka it's exciting to react quickly and kill a suddenly appearing Droideka before it turned on the shield, because of how deadly it would've been if it did. As a Droideka, once you've managed to activate your shield close to enemies you can't be lazy and expect to be invulnerable even if you're very powerful, because you've basically trapped yourself! You now need to kill all the enemies around you before your shield run out of power, before they run away, hide or deplete your shield. The shield not only loses power from hits but also constantly by a timer after the first hit, so surviving enemies only need to wait.

How it could work in Tanki:
I'd suggest changing a heavy hull to have the same two modes, fast (as a medium) but very little health and unable to use the turret, or very slow but very high health. There should be a small pause before you can use your turret and have the high health returned. When the high-health mode is over, you're very vulnerable.
It would be able to be used like real life heavy/assault tanks were: leading attacks and protecting the medium tanks. In tanki they would be able to hide behind the heavy tank when its in shield mode.

Of course it would be balanced how much health it has exactly, how fast health regenerates, etc.

This means you can have a super-high health tank punished by a very slow speed but not have it be exhausting to use, because you can always use the faster mode to move in - you just can't fight in it.

Playing against such a tank might not be frustrating, because you might often be able to escape from it. It might also be exciting and scary to see it lumbering towards you like it's unstoppable, while you place mines or take up a defensive position.

Lore-idea (if it matters lol)
Maybe the lore-explanation why it changes between these modes could be that it uses all power in its systems to move its massive weight fast, leaving no power left for the weaponry, and it overheats, making it vulnerable to explode.

[qwds 185]

Idea:
Changing or creating a hull which has a similar playstyle to the Droideka in the Star Wars Battlefront games. Not necessarily the shield, rolling like a ball, machine gun-like weapons, but its abilities and weaknesses.

The Droideka playstyle:
It has two modes: move very fast but it can't shoot or use the shield, or it can shoot, use the shield but moves very slowly. As a Droideka, this forces you to use the fast mode to get close to enemies, then change to the shield and shooting mode - a change that takes a moment of not being able to do anything, as you fold out your weapons and legs, making you very vulnerable. Without the shield you have very little health. If you're attacked by the Droideka it's exciting to react quickly and kill a suddenly appearing Droideka before it turned on the shield, because of how deadly it would've been if it did. As a Droideka, once you've managed to activate your shield close to enemies you can't be lazy and expect to be invulnerable even if you're very powerful, because you've basically trapped yourself! You now need to kill all the enemies around you before your shield run out of power, before they run away, hide or deplete your shield. The shield not only loses power from hits but also constantly by a timer after the first hit, so surviving enemies only need to wait.

How it could work in Tanki:
I'd suggest changing a heavy hull to have the same two modes, fast (as a medium) but very little health and unable to use the turret, or very slow but very high health. There should be a small pause before you can use your turret and have the high health returned. When the high-health mode is over, you're very vulnerable.
It would be able to be used like real life heavy/assault tanks were: leading attacks and protecting the medium tanks. In tanki they would be able to hide behind the heavy tank when its in shield mode.

Of course it would be balanced how much health it has exactly, how fast health regenerates, etc.

This means you can have a super-high health tank punished by a very slow speed but not have it be exhausting to use, because you can always use the faster mode to move in - you just can't fight in it.

Playing against such a tank might not be frustrating, because you might often be able to escape from it. It might also be exciting and scary to see it lumbering towards you like it's unstoppable, while you place mines or take up a defensive position.

Lore-idea (if it matters lol)
Maybe the lore-explanation why it changes between these modes could be that it uses all power in its systems to move its massive weight fast, leaving no power left for the weaponry, and it overheats, making it vulnerable to explode.

[Dopamine 2,161]

I have nothing in particular against this idea, although it has similiar properties to the effects of the crisis drone, and I´m afraid the combo of the two could become really op and broken. 

[yellowghetto 3,206]

I think Mammoth like Paladin should have passive healing. Mammoth is only good for defense, while nearly all the other Hulls are effective for offense, midfield, and defense. 
 

Mammoth like, Paladin will have passive heal, but loses its instant heal ability.

While Paladin passively heals itself and nearby allies, giving Status Immunity, giving nearby enemies 2 harmful Status Effects, and reducing critical damage, Mammoth would passively heal itself, increase Hull movement speed, give itself Status Immunity, and would be immune to mines. Sounds like a reasonable balance to me since Mammoth does not directly buff teammates.

As the slowest and the biggest Hull, you are such an obvious and huge target. The OD doesn’t last too long and it makes Mammoth just a Hull where you sit in a corner and wait for someone to approach you. Not to mention, it’s OD is true melee range. 
 

When you are playing Mammoth, and use its OD, most of the time, you end up killing one or no players, which is quite underwhelming.
The immunity to mines is quite useless in most cases as you would probably never reach enemy bases with a full minefield from Sabotuers or Miners. And if you do, you are most likely greeted with a swarm of camping enemies.

With this change. It would help Mammoth players play a bigger role in battles besides camping and just being, “the tank.” With a passive heal, it would be interesting to see a Mammoth raid, or Mammoth leading teammates to take out minefields.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

I don't know how this will work in the game, it will completely change the Mammoth OD to an extent, instead of the complete heal, passive healing can make Mammoth less powerful because many players tend to use the OD when the hull is at its last portion of HP, so to maximize its health, they use the OD at the last stage  to again regain all of its health. Let's say if I do the same with newly changed OD, any shot greater than its passive healing rate will destroy the hull, making mammoth not suitable in many scenarios. And I believe immunity to status effects and mine damage is already present in the current form of Mammoth OD.

Of course, I could be missing something, hence opinions of other players can help. 

[alkyng 3,080]

First don't expect every hull you play will be like the old Hopper or current Paladin. + Mammoth already have a very fast OD in charging, and before a while it was able to generate its OD in less than 1 minute, which already have been abused. The biggest hull is Dictator not Mammoth. And Titan - Ares have the same speed of Mammoth and slower acceleration than Mammoth, so it's not the slowest hull, wrong.

Not every map is just a big flat where you can easily run from Mammoth, you most easily get collided with a wall or an obstacle while you run. In Highland Mammoth have a very good advantage in, also Sandbox Sandal and many other maps. + big maps have more players, so it's not that huge difference. AND not everyone is playing every game mode like TDM, we play the game objective, standing in point in CP, taking the flag in CTF, and the ball in Rugby. We're not always satisfied to run from Mammoth. And definitely in Siege it have the hugest advantage.

[VIC2000 92]

Mammoths overdrive is good but only when you time it right against the enemy. When first activated it wipes out anything, (except paladin) but after the initial burst of energy (first 1.5 -2 secs ) it becomes quite useless and very quickly gets taken out by the numerous turrets (other overdrives) with all the augments that are currently blighting the game.

When you read about most things to do with overdrives/turrets/augments (wiki) they all seem to give a big advantage in battle, then you realise that your excellent combo is really not that good against the current OP gimmick that wipes you out every time. (wiki is very misleading in that regard) I can never understand that when the devs have squeezed as much cash from the OP "ultra only" latest gimmick they can never get the obligatory nerf right first time. Devs are VERY GOOD at making OP gimmicks for cash but seem VERY USELESS at getting the right balance after that. Heavy hulls are meant to be able to soak up damage (according to the wiki) because they are slow and not very maneuverable, this as we all no is not how it plays out in battle.

TO is a jumbled mess of OP gimmicks that have ruined the game and it will only get worse.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I think this is a great idea, would improve the usability of Mammoth's overdrive in my opinion. The healing could perhaps work like this:

- Upon activation, Mammoth gains 10% of its total HP, and a further 10% of HP every second until the overdrive finishes.

With a 9 second long overdrive, this would mean Mammoth would regenerate an effective total of 100% of its HP over 10 seconds  - or 400 HP instantly, and then a further 400 HP/second at Mk8.

One of the problems with the current Mammoth overdrive is that you are "punished" for activating the overdrive when you are at high/full HP, since you waste the healing - but many times you would want to activate it when at high health as a you see a good opportunity to get kills. This change to the overdrive from a one-off heal at the start to a heal over time would solve this problem, if you want to use the overdrive for healing that is still possible - but if you want to use the overdrive at high HP you will now be less punished for doing so. Also, as @yellowghetto mentioned, of course when you activate your overdrive you are a target - and so this would make the overdrive overall more effective as you would now have some healing, and a be a little bit harder to take down.

With 400 HP/second Mammoth would not be unkillable (especially given that remember - there is no critical damage protection, as Paladin has), but it would be harder to stop for sure. If it was too powerful it would be easy to adjust other parameters - for instance by increasing overdrive charge time, reducing the number of ways Mammoth counters other overdrives, or even by reducing the healing (e.g. 8% per second, or less).

Overall, I think this would be an improvement to the design of Mammoth's overdrive, preventing the conflicting choices you often have to make with its overdrive right now such as "do I waste the healing potential and use it now for kills?" or "do I use it for healing now, and waste the opportunity for kills?". Much better, I would say.

Edited January 3, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[Dopamine 2,161]

I think the best thing that could happen to mammoth is it would heal instantly for the duration for the OD, for a total of 100% HP.

Example:

You have 50% HP upon hitting the overdrive - you get the 50% healed. Then, you are hit by your enemies, dealing damage equivalent to 70% of your total HP - you get another 50% healed instantly, but no more.

Now I don´t know if that would make mammoth op, I don´t use it very much anymore, I´d appreciate any feedback.

Edited January 3, 2022 by frederik123456

[SulfuricAcid 504]

20 hours ago, yellowghetto said:

I think Mammoth like Paladin should have passive healing. Mammoth is only good for defense, while nearly all the other Hulls are effective for offense, midfield, and defense. 
 

Mammoth like, Paladin will have passive heal, but loses its instant heal ability.

While Paladin passively heals itself and nearby allies, giving Status Immunity, giving nearby enemies 2 harmful Status Effects, and reducing critical damage, Mammoth would passively heal itself, increase Hull movement speed, give itself Status Immunity, and would be immune to mines. Sounds like a reasonable balance to me since Mammoth does not directly buff teammates.

As the slowest and the biggest Hull, you are such an obvious and huge target. The OD doesn’t last too long and it makes Mammoth just a Hull where you sit in a corner and wait for someone to approach you. Not to mention, it’s OD is true melee range. 
 

When you are playing Mammoth, and use its OD, most of the time, you end up killing one or no players, which is quite underwhelming.
The immunity to mines is quite useless in most cases as you would probably never reach enemy bases with a full minefield from Sabotuers or Miners. And if you do, you are most likely greeted with a swarm of camping enemies.

With this change. It would help Mammoth players play a bigger role in battles besides camping and just being, “the tank.” With a passive heal, it would be interesting to see a Mammoth raid, or Mammoth leading teammates to take out minefields.

Once it was immune to damage. thus making it a perfect choice for gold hunters. would you mean to return this feature?

[Dopamine 2,161]

34 minutes ago, SulfuricAcid said:

Once it was immune to damage. thus making it a perfect choice for gold hunters. would you mean to return this feature?

Nope, we are talking about healing to some extent over time, not damage immunity.

[BruhBruhThingThing 413]

What I want to know is:

Why is this part 2? What ever happened to part 1?

[DethFaux 5]

That would be cool if there was a light hull who's OD was they turned invisible. You could still hit them, but the red outline wouldn't appear when you looked at them. The bullets, shells, or other firing object(s) could be visible, but barely. Hornet's Radar OD could still work on them.

[JustBlackWolf 875]

I find Mammoth's OD great for offense instead

if you equip Trickster with it (works without as well)
you can easily cap flags hence the speed boost, as well as OD preventing anyone from getting too close and grants you immunity to all the effects ingame (including mines damage!), if you got a good Isida supporting you, it's a guaranteed flag/ball/whatever.

The OD duration got buffed to 9 seconds, so that's far from "doesn't last too long"

but i'll let my buddy  @2shots2kills state his opinion since he plays this hull regularly, i'm just his healer.

 

This said, i think a passive healing (not too high) would make this OD perfect, i often see mammoths die like nothing after using their OD. I would love to see more Mammoths around instead of the usual Meta OP hulls.

I had thought about some passive healing or like slight damage reduction with OD active, but never actually suggested it.

Edited January 4, 2022 by JustBlackWolf

[2shots2kills 2,364]

Well, a slight Buff/Rework would not hurt. I'd Change it to a 50% instant heal with a passive heal of "X" hp/tick over a number of seconds. A slight damage reduction of maybe 20-30% would pretty useful too. 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:10 AM, qwds said:

 

Topic Merged

[qwds 185]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:29 PM, DethFaux said:

That would be cool if there was a light hull who's OD was they turned invisible. You could still hit them, but the red outline wouldn't appear when you looked at them. The bullets, shells, or other firing object(s) could be visible, but barely. Hornet's Radar OD could still work on them.

Nice idea!

[qwds 185]

A new hull that "sticks" on anything it drives on and can drive up vertically on walls and upsidedown.

It relies on this ability to fight and stay alive, so it's not just an OD but a permanent ability. It should probably be a light hull with weak HP.

It's meant to sneak up on enemies without being seen or wait in ambushes. Maybe it has an OD ability where it jumps, which can be used to leap from the wall of one building on to another. It has a low, small silhouette to be easily able to hide. Another idea could be that it drops a bomb on whatever is below.

Maybe how high it can climb should be limited so it won't be so high up that no one can shoot it.

 

 

[Dopamine 2,161]

Hovering hulls have an uncontested advantage against track hull in their unpredictable sideways movement ability. Combined with relatively small hitboxes it makes them extremely hard to hit effectively. 

The biggest issue is that there is no advantage for tracked hulls to compensate for this.

I propose a couple of options to deal with this problem :

a) nerf the HP of hover hulls compared to their tracked counterparts

b) add a partial aim assist, especially for turrets that need precise aiming (e.g. smoky) which often miss due to smallest imprecisions or even slightest ping delays

c) increase the momentum/lower the acceleration of hover hulls to make the sideways movement less swift and to add moments of vulnerability when changing directions

[Spy 14,687]

On 1/21/2022 at 12:45 PM, frederik123456 said:

a) nerf the HP of hover hulls compared to their tracked counterparts

This one won't be implemented because the developers want hulls of the same class (e.g light hulls) to have the same amount of HP.

[alkyng 3,080]

I hope the nerf hopper had to be implemented to all other hovering hulls (ares-paladin-crusader).  Even though I see hopper nerf wasn't enough, but it's a good start.