category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[wolverine848 13,097]

4 hours ago, Viking4s said:

Well, some OD are meant to be more offensive and others to be more on the defensive side. Other bring real tactical advantage (and not necessary increase your kill count).

What counts is to look at the big picture, taking in consideration the full battle, the low HP of the hull, etc...
Wasp  and Viking OD are also very offensive.
Hunter is not so offensive, but tactically it help for many battle activity that bring XP and score points.

I guess many players does not like to die and would gladly welcome the nerfing of offensive OD as much as they did celebrate with the implementation of the temporary spawning protection.

Every tank will get destroyed during a battle - I think most players get that.

It's the fact that hornet OD can get one-shot kills on medium tanks.  There's no counter - no matter how much protection has been invested... it can't be countered.  That's what players dislike.  Rail LCR can do this across the map with no warning.

The OD should charge at a rate much closer to vikings.

[r_Given6 859]

9 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

I'd rather just make it ignore only 75% of all protections to replace its complete ignore of everything.

That would, of course, lead to lots of complaints about the 'ruin of the only benefit of the OD'. What I'm suggesting is a 75% ignore of the Double Armour an enemy has equipped, which is neither taking too much from it, nor letting it have, to some extent, its exploitative ability of one-shotting medium and heavy hulls. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 hours ago, Given said:

1) That would, of course, lead to lots of complaints about the 'ruin of the only benefit of the OD'.

 

2) What I'm suggesting is a 75% ignore of the Double Armour an enemy has equipped, which is neither taking too much from it, nor letting it have, to some extent, its exploitative ability of one-shotting medium and heavy hulls. 

 

2) this ain't gonna do nothing. Modules will still be pointless.

Edited January 12, 2020 by iFrosTiger
Kindly avoid any type of provocations.

[r_Given6 859]

1 hour ago, DieselPlatinum said:

1)..

2) this ain't gonna do nothing. Modules will still be pointless.

1) When Mammoth's Overdrive was nerfed and its immortality removed, players were calling the sour Mammoth users(...) while they were calling them back the same. Saying so is neither a reasonable argument nor makes a difference.

2) The Overdrive needs to have some benefit of its own other than counters to some other ODs. Ignoring protections is an important feature, but dealing ridiculous amounts of damage to enemies, even when they have DA, isn't.

Edited January 12, 2020 by iFrosTiger
Kindly avoid any type of provocations.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

23 minutes ago, Given said:

1) When Mammoth's Overdrive was nerfed and its immortality removed, players were calling the sour Mammoth users(...) while they were calling them back the same. Saying so is neither a reasonable argument nor makes a difference.

2) The Overdrive needs to have some benefit of its own other than counters to some other ODs. Ignoring protections is an important feature, but dealing ridiculous amounts of damage to enemies, even when they have DA, isn't.

1) they were complaining because the mammoths had the best chance of getting the golds. IMO the gold boxes should just be removed. When the immortality was removed, mammoth became only good for defending its team base or fending off enemies from points. The only relevant problem with it was that the devs didn't put in any counters against it except wasps bomb which made no sense.

 

2) again, protection modules are pointless until they are less affected by hornets ignore ability.

 

 

[mjmj5558 2,346]

All in all, somebody thinks that hornet is op,  somebody thinks that hunter is op and so on. 

Yeah,  hornet can one shot medium hulls with 1 rail 2 double damage 3 LCR.  Thats many things. If the player cannot activate double damage because of cooldown,  or uses other alt. then the statement isn't true

And don't forget that hornet is very popular with medium and close ranged turrets as well, and they are usually destroyed before their od ends , so nerfing their ods wouldn't be fair. 

If we want to speak about a really op od then speak about dictators 

Edited January 12, 2020 by mjmj5558

[Viking4s 10,791]

12 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Every tank will get destroyed during a battle - I think most players get that.

It's the fact that hornet OD can get one-shot kills on medium tanks.  There's no counter - no matter how much protection has been invested... it can't be countered.  That's what players dislike.  Rail LCR can do this across the map with no warning.

The OD should charge at a rate much closer to vikings.

Of course they get that, but as less as possible. Being a light hull player I do hate to be killed in one shot, but I got use to it (and I am more cautious now). If you are medium hull you enjoy a longer survival and can be a little be more adventurous. The OD do not change the fate of the light hull in this case, however the medium hull do feel the pain now . Before OD, magnum was horrendous for light hulls, after OD it still the case, so no change for me.
Railgun at long distance is not easy task, plus the charge is quite long with LCR, so you need to be good at it to fully get the benefit (i prefer the Hyperspace Rounds alteration). Shaft with Heavy capacitor ismore efficient than railgun with LCR at long disctance. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Viking4s

[The_Pakistani 16,768]

You spend tones of crystals n money off course to make ur GS 9999 by MU system than a rat behind walls with 5000 GS attack you n there you go. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

6 hours ago, Viking4s said:

Of course they get that, but as less as possible. Being a light hull player I do hate to be killed in one shot, but I got use to it (and I am more cautious now). If you are medium hull you enjoy a longer survival and can be a little be more adventurous. The OD do not change the fate of the light hull in this case, however the medium hull do feel the pain now . Before OD, magnum was horrendous for light hulls, after OD it still the case, so no change for me.
Railgun at long distance is not easy task, plus the charge is quite long with LCR, so you need to be good at it to fully get the benefit (i prefer the Hyperspace Rounds alteration). Shaft with Heavy capacitor ismore efficient than railgun with LCR at long disctance. 

Rail was just 1 example. You help make my case by pointing out others.

There is no more "being adventurous".  Step out and get one-shot even with multiple protections?  My main point is that there is no real counter.  Mammoth was a somewhat counter - though very brief.  Does not even have that anymore.

Most ODs have some counters.  Hornet OD... not so much.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

39 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Rail was just 1 example. You help make my case by pointing out others.

There is no more "being adventurous".  Step out and get one-shot even with multiple protections?  My main point is that there is no real counter.  Mammoth was a somewhat counter - though very brief.  Does not even have that anymore.

Most ODs have some counters.  Hornet OD... not so much.

Hornets ignore ability is the reason why I keep saying that protection modules are pointless. Because you spend however many crystals on whatever modification of the module it becomes disappointing when they don't do the job you expect them to do.

 

Every time I consider buying a module I have to think about whether or not it'll be a good purchase hundreds of thousands of times.

 

That's how OP hornets complete ignore ability.

[Benefactor 6,888]

Just how hard is it to kill a Hornet?

[SporkZilla 1,775]

1 hour ago, Benefactor said:

Just how hard is it to kill a Hornet?

 

It's not difficult, but they only have you hit you once

 

I'm still undecided about Hornet's OD, others annoy me more, but I am thinking about going to Gauss / Thunder / Hammer as default protection on this account (all at 30%) instead of Gauss / Rail / Thunder or Hammer because of it.

 

If I get any more modules and MU them, they won't be against common turrets on Hornets

Edited January 13, 2020 by SporkZilla

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:12 AM, wolverine848 said:

The OD should charge at a rate much closer to vikings.

That's a stretch. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 hours ago, Benefactor said:

Just how hard is it to kill a Hornet?

It's not like they drive to the middle of the field to provide you with a nice target.  It's much harder to kill the one that shoots you from behind, while hidden in a bush, from a distance.  Plus, hornets get the benefit of DA + modules ... unlike their targets (during OD).

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

That's a stretch. 

Why?  It lasts 20 seconds and during that time they can get just as many kills as a viking - with the benefit of seeing hidden enemies.

Besides... I said "closer to"... not "same as".  Could split the difference.  But Diesel's suggestion probably better anyway, as in team battles all you need is a couple dictators to keep them pumped 24/7.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 2:14 PM, Maf said:

Especially considering that it completely breaks the whole idea of Godmode_ON and things like "mutant snowmen" events, since Hornet's OD can just casually ignore the "godly" 99% protection module 

Not to mention that 99% protection is also one of the April Fool's Gold Box. Yeah, pop that Radar to ignore that protection.

[Maf 32,300]

2 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Not to mention that 99% protection is also one of the April Fool's Gold Box. Yeah, pop that Radar to ignore that protection.

Nah, I think that one was literal invulnerability, like Mammoth OD before the nerf.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

1 minute ago, Maf said:

Nah, I think that one was literal invulnerability, like Mammoth OD before the nerf.

April Fool Gold Box does grant 99% protection. One time I shot a fully charged M2 Shaft shot (before its damage buff) to a 99% invulnerable Hornet, did 23.38 damage, not zero.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

17 minutes ago, Maf said:

Nah, I think that one was literal invulnerability, like Mammoth OD before the nerf.

You weren't immortal. But it took giant effort to take you down. 

 

[Maf 32,300]

Alright, I stand corrected.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

6 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Why?  It lasts 20 seconds and during that time they can get just as many kills as a viking - with the benefit of seeing hidden enemies.

Besides... I said "closer to"... not "same as".  Could split the difference.  But Diesel's suggestion probably better anyway, as in team battles all you need is a couple dictators to keep them pumped 24/7.

I know you said "closer to". At the moment, Viking is far away from the others in terms of charging speed. Titan used to keep it company but after its nerf, it recharges quicker than Mammoth and Dictator. Titan's overdrive charges exactly 2x faster than Viking's. 

 

I assumed by "closer to", you meant near its charging rate. Effectively near 4 minutes just to charge to 100% passively. I think that's too much of a nerf. It's only 20 seconds after all. And you can be one-shotted randomly during that time if you're not careful. 

 

Then there's the problem of transitioning if your suggestion is implemented. That'll sure piss off the masses. Yeah, it needs to be done less times per battle on average, but that can be achieved if you let it charge passively in 2 minutes and 50 seconds rather than near 4 minutes. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by TheCongoSpider

[mjmj5558 2,346]

7 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

 It's only 20 seconds after all. And you can be one-shotted randomly during that time if you're not careful.  

Yes,  thats Thr most important thing.  Several time, player are killed before the hornet od ends,  and there are some situations, where they didn't get any kill before it ends (or just one, which is far away from viking's overdrive.) . Thats why it is balanced. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

16 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I know you said "closer to". At the moment, Viking is far away from the others in terms of charging speed. Titan used to keep it company but after its nerf, it recharges quicker than Mammoth and Dictator. Titan's overdrive charges exactly 2x faster than Viking's. 

 

I assumed by "closer to", you meant near its charging rate. Effectively near 4 minutes just to charge to 100% passively. I think that's too much of a nerf. It's only 20 seconds after all. And you can be one-shotted randomly during that time if you're not careful. 

 

Then there's the problem of transitioning if your suggestion is implemented. That'll sure piss off the masses. Yeah, it needs to be done less timers per battle on average, but that can be achieved if you let it charge passively in 2 minutes and 50 seconds rather than near 4 minutes. 

Well... "split the difference" was one of my suggestions - so it would not be 4 min.

LOL... as if this has stopped them from making changes in the past. 

5 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Yes,  thats Thr most important thing.  Several time, player are killed before the hornet od ends,  and there are some situations, where they didn't get any kill before it ends (or just one, which is far away from viking's overdrive.) . Thats why it is balanced. 

before it ends?   How about before it starts... #hunter

If they can't get a kill during the (possible) 20 seconds that's on the user (hornet).  Strategic use of ODs is certainly beneficial.

[r_Given6 859]

On 1/12/2020 at 2:23 PM, DieselPlatinum said:

Protection modules are pointless until they are less affected by hornets ignore ability.

Okay, well, I think I have to agree it kinda hurts to have that expensive module you bought rendered completely useless again and again in battles by Hornet users. 

I see your point in asking for a 75% protection ignore, but I still feel that Hornet's OD should enable the user to deal at least the standard damage. Otherwise, it's not really useful. So, maybe we can find a way in the middle?

What about updating on the idea, that:

When a Hornet with OD + DD fires at a tank with DA and a module against that turret (say, with X% protection), they will deal the standard damage + [100-X]% × 50% of the standard damage.

Or, in other words, the protection of DA and Modules applies to only the extra damage given by DD. 

Effective against the exploitation of the overdrive.

Edit: Will add this to the main post after deciding whether DA should reduce the extra damage by 50%, or some other value; and whether the additional of a Module to the equation should contribute X% or X/2%.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Given

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

4 hours ago, Given said:

Okay, well, I think I have to agree it kinda hurts to have that expensive module you bought rendered completely useless again and again in battles by Hornet users. 

I see your point in asking for a 75% protection ignore, but I still feel that Hornet's OD should enable the user to deal at least the standard damage. Otherwise, it's not really useful. So, maybe we can find a way in the middle?

What about updating on the idea, that:

When a Hornet with OD + DD fires at a tank with DA and a module against that turret (say, with X% protection), they will deal the standard damage + [100-(50+X)]% of the standard damage.

Or, in other words, the protection of DA and Modules applies to only the extra damage given by DD. 

Effective against the exploitation of the overdrive.

Edit: Will add this to the main post after deciding whether DA should reduce the extra damage by 50%, or some other value; and whether the additional of a Module to the equation should contribute X% or X/2%.

Or 87.5% protection ignore if the hornet has no damage boosts, 75% protection ignore if the hornet is using Double Damage, and 50% ignore if it has both double damage and booster drone.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

25 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Or 87.5% protection ignore if the hornet has no damage boosts, 75% protection ignore if the hornet is using Double Damage, and 50% ignore if it has both double damage and booster drone.

That's gonna be tough to explain to players. The inconsistency of their damage numbers would frustrate them for sure.