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Mad Tanks!


Marcus
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9 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I'm just gonna wait till tomorrow and change it - I'm not playing 16 battles to get one mission done.

But that sux as I lose 70 stars.

It's just ridiculous they do the 2x armor but don't alter mission requirements.

oh oh . they might take your idea and run with it..lol

 

I'm finding that the last two days my tank is weaker then when it first came out. today I struggled to get1 star. most I got in my first 5 battles was 0 stars . it's bad just totally bad this update.. talk tomorrow off to sleep now to dream of how tanki use to be back in 2013 lol

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1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

Just got a DAILY mission to kill 100 tanks.  ONE HUNDRED.  During this idiotic experiment.

COME ON!    ?

 

And it's the same pool of maps everytime.  I get repeat maps over and over and over.

What's the problem?

I did one mission of 300 kills very easy.

I'm not a buyer and I don't have any special drones full upgraded also!

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So, it's been a few days and I think it's time to go more in-depth with my thoughts on this experiment. I'm more calm and level-headed than in my last post, as I'm not nearly as frustrated. Still frustrated, but not as much as before.

  • Doubled health makes battles less fun. The double health makes killing tanks take a lot longer. Given the right circumstances, you and an enemy can sit there shooting each other for a ridiculously long time. Fights in general now have a slow pace, and I think one of the biggest reason this game is fun is because of the fast-paced, impulse decisions. With how easy it is to stay alive, one's supplies frequently run out, and you're driving around waiting for the 30 seconds to run out. Maybe I'm a Speed Boost addict, but when my Speed Boost is not active, battles feel slow.
    • Sidenote: In my opinion, consistently dying and respawning is only an issue if the teams are unbalanced and there's not a whole lot you can do before dying.
  • The game is not designed with double health in mind. I'd say that in a pretty good amount of the game modes, the general imperative is to clear out the enemies, and then do your job. In Assault, you need to kill at least a few of the defenders in order to make flag delivery easier. In Siege, you need to kill all of the enemies at a point in order to start capturing. With double health, it's easy to assume that wiping out your enemies will not be easy. Assault has been hit the hardest. It's harder for defenders to kill a flag carrier, making battles end at scores like 70-20.
  • The disparity in equipment is made a lot more obvious. The experience boost has sent a lot of people to high ranks very quickly, without enough time to get a good amount of MUs on your turret and hull. If you are a Legend and have a turret that's like Mk7 3/20, you're going to have a hard time killing an Mk7 20/20 hull, even without the double health. Double health just makes things even harder. Even if you've been a Legend for a while, if you want to buy a new Mk7, you're going to have to wait a while and invest a lot of crystals in order to make it even usable.
  • The double health favors certain turrets, and completely trashes others. Everyone's talked about it already, but melee turrets have gone up in popularity (as well as their modules ?). That's because high-DPS turrets are in the meta right now. With the double health, it's all about getting as much damage on the enemy tanks ASAP, because the high damage of turrets like Shaft are just not enough to one-shot people anymore.
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54 minutes ago, GrayWolf8733 said:

So, it's been a few days and I think it's time to go more in-depth with my thoughts on this experiment. I'm more calm and level-headed than in my last post, as I'm not nearly as frustrated. Still frustrated, but not as much as before.

  • Doubled health makes battles less fun. The double health makes killing tanks take a lot longer. Given the right circumstances, you and an enemy can sit there shooting each other for a ridiculously long time. Fights in general now have a slow pace, and I think one of the biggest reason this game is fun is because of the fast-paced, impulse decisions. With how easy it is to stay alive, one's supplies frequently run out, and you're driving around waiting for the 30 seconds to run out. Maybe I'm a Speed Boost addict, but when my Speed Boost is not active, battles feel slow.
    • Sidenote: In my opinion, consistently dying and respawning is only an issue if the teams are unbalanced and there's not a whole lot you can do before dying.
  • The game is not designed with double health in mind. I'd say that in a pretty good amount of the game modes, the general imperative is to clear out the enemies, and then do your job. In Assault, you need to kill at least a few of the defenders in order to make flag delivery easier. In Siege, you need to kill all of the enemies at a point in order to start capturing. With double health, it's easy to assume that wiping out your enemies will not be easy. Assault has been hit the hardest. It's harder for defenders to kill a flag carrier, making battles end at scores like 70-20.
  • The disparity in equipment is made a lot more obvious. The experience boost has sent a lot of people to high ranks very quickly, without enough time to get a good amount of MUs on your turret and hull. If you are a Legend and have a turret that's like Mk7 3/20, you're going to have a hard time killing an Mk7 20/20 hull, even without the double health. Double health just makes things even harder. Even if you've been a Legend for a while, if you want to buy a new Mk7, you're going to have to wait a while and invest a lot of crystals in order to make it even usable.
  • The double health favors certain turrets, and completely trashes others. Everyone's talked about it already, but melee turrets have gone up in popularity (as well as their modules ?). That's because high-DPS turrets are in the meta right now. With the double health, it's all about getting as much damage on the enemy tanks ASAP, because the high damage of turrets like Shaft are just not enough to one-shot people anymore.

I agree with you especially for the last one "The double health favors certain turrets, and completely trashes othersbecause i am not even using the usual long range turrets Guass & Shaft during this experiment especially Shaft because it doesnt has enough damage to kill even the enemy's Wasp in 1 shot. So the whole game structure is just collapsing. So this does need some more balancing etc.

 

Edited by CaptainKiller
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  • 1. Do you think that there were less occasions when you were destroyed where you spawned and were consequently completely useless to your team?
  • 2. How did the benefit of well-timed overdrives and drones change? 
  • 3. How did the importance of team gameplay change? 
  • 4. Could this experiment change your interest in the game? 
  • 5. Do you have any suggestions on how to improve these changes?

1. Barely. Most 'spawn killing' takes place exactly the same, just slower. And it's kinda awkward now, having to stare at each other for so long. 

2. They didn't. 

3. With the change of battle time down to 5 mins from 7, team play really doesn't feel as important now. I think most people just try to get as many points before the battles end, and working with the team isn't always the fastest way to do that. Battles can feel a bit frozen now. 

4. Although the occasional change-up of gameplay can be fun, if this experiment became permanent I would stop playing.

5. Yes. Remove them, problem (well, one of them, anyway) solved. 

I think adding more health helps in some situations, and may - one day - be a cool thing to implement, but as the game currently stands it really just doesn't work. Maybe do a test in a few months with +30% health and see how it goes, but before then there'll have to be changes to a few of the turrets and hulls.

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I am not enjoying this game much at the moment for reasons which have been said over and over. 

Talking about the experiment changes first.  The maps removed did not make me sad.  I don't have much else positive to say about it.  I dislike the shortened battles because it reduces strategy and results in people leaving battles early which further unbalances matches.  I dislike that half the turrets are basically ineffective.  Games are generally slower paced and less interesting.  It is simply too much health per hull and the strength of melee weapons has increased too much.  Add defender or crisis and you can easily ignore all defenders and cap a flag in CTF/ASL or a ball in RGB.  In TJR, the JGR is too weak and easy to kill.  The JGR needs to run around the map to stay alive.  Missions were not adjusted to deal with the changing dynamics.  (Enjoying your 100 kill daily or 500 kill weekly mission?)  I think most games before the experiment often turned into TDM because it was more profitable to kill people than to complete the objective.  During the experiment, it has swung too far the other way.  I hope the experiment ends soon or the devs at least play with the parameters to restore some semblance of balance.

On to the general state of the game.  Too much of MM is overdrives and status effects now.  There needs to be more maps in MM circulation.  By far my biggest frustration is the hopper hull with Crisis or Defender.  It is virtually unstoppable in cap games without a tremendous team effort which is hard to come by in MM.  The physics of Hopper pushing through or under other hulls and flipping them is especially triggering.

I still play this game mainly because of the friends I've made.  Usually 6 or 7 of us play together most nights, but everyone is getting frustrated because of the choices the dev team has made.  Some have already decided to not play until the experiment is over.  If pushed much further, I know some just won't come back.

 

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Quote

1. Do you think that there were less occasions when you were destroyed where you spawned and were consequently completely useless to your team?

2. How did the benefit of well-timed overdrives and drones change? 

3. How did the importance of team gameplay change? 

4. Could this experiment change your interest in the game? 

5. Do you have any suggestions on how to improve these changes?

1/ Less occasion to be destroyed yes. With a higher HP Hornet survives longer with a lot less one-shot death, that is logical. However, that time is spent running away from Firebird and Freeze and if I can't out run them I die.

2/ Not using drone. Rework defender drone very powerful now, it should be available at higher higher rank as a counter of Booster drone. Make Blaster available sooner it would be a better suited for this small map and buffed hulls.Regarding Overdrive there is probably a better use of it as there is less confusion on the map. Viking overdrive is seriously too loooooooooooooong.

3/ Not sure if there is more team game play than before, but we do see it more and we have a better understanding of battle situation. It is less messy and less unpredictable (map size helps too), you can see that a strategic move last longer, before the change tanks would dies halfway and then re-spawned on the far side with no hope to catch up. As players (allies and foes) stay alive longer and there is less of them you can better see and understand their strategy and can adhere to it, support and reinforce defence or attack.

4/ The 6 v 6 is definitely an improvement. And smaller maps is also good for team work. Team Juggernaut is fine, the addition of all the immunity balance the format. 

5/ a/ Too much HP for medium and heavy hulls, increase HP from before by x2 light-hull, but only x1.5 medium and x1.25 for heavy hull. Medium hulls have become too undestructible, which leads to have too many heavy hulls in assault.
b/ Rework strength of close range turrets, too weak.
c/ Rework some augment, especially the Herald series, less kill means less benefits.
d/ 5 minutes is way too short. Bring 7 minutes or more. With so little time player don't see the point of fighting further if losing. 

Edited by Tokamak
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Ok guys, you might've seen my feedback before, but here is an updated version: 

 

Personally, I hate this experiment. Why? 5 minutes is way too short for a battle, also 8v8s were fine. Because then, it would be another 2 players that could lead your team to victory, or defeat. Don't even get me started on the x2 health. With Titan, Ares or Mammoth, that has DA, Defender 20/20 and 50% protection against YOUR turret, then what would've been a 1k damage hit would now be a 125 damage hit. And you would need 32 of those to destroy the heavy hull. That is way too much. Although the JGR mode is good and I hope it would come back for more special events in the future. ? 

 

Do you think that there were less occasions when you were destroyed where you spawned and were consequently completely useless to your team? Nope, respawn time has nothing to do with this experiment AT ALL. It just decreases the time it takes for the battle to end, which is NOT the solution. Personally, I think 7 or 10 minute battles are good, thank you.

 

How did the benefit of well-timed overdrives and drones change? I was just getting used to when to time my overdrives at the right point, and you guys ruined it for me. That's it, I'll see you guys on the 18th November. Hopefully then, I can time my ODs right. Also, it increases what would've been 1 hour to complete my daily mission set and raises that time to 3 hours. Are you serious? Also, Defender and Booster are a must-have now. Meaning I can't survive without them! ? 

How did the importance of team gameplay change? It's less needed than ever. I've heard reports of intentional sabotage to get more points than the other teammate in a battle, and those will keep increasing if this doesn't stop ASAP. And banning thousands per day is not the way to go, either. Well done, Tanki. ?

Could this experiment change your interest in the game? Yes, it would absolutely force me to leave the game. There is no gain for free-to-play players or the players who like to spend their money on the game. Scrap that, and move on. At least with the x4 exp, x2 crystal boost you gave us some gain. No gain from this, I'm not interested. See you in 10 days. ?

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve these changes? Scrap. Them. IMMEDIATELY. And I don't mean alter them to suit the community better. REMOVE them altogether. I like "vanilla" Tanki - Tanki with no massive boosts in health or damage. If you truly care about your community, listen to our feedback and change accordingly. If I'm not mistaken, our community doesn't like this experiment, not even the Russian community. And believe me, I've been over there. ?️‍♂️

 

Summary? I am against this experiment because it's annoying trying to kill people, it's 260% less fun and I liked it when we could kill and be killed normally. With any turret. This is Towns, and you just listened to my feedback. 

You just wasted 5 minutes of your life...

Edited by Towns
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How much time you need to fix your dead match making? Camper mults all time in my team who don't do objective just play TDM (still have 4 kills lol) and mostly I join battles in middles when 2-3 mints left and 2ndly when 2-3 noobs leave from my team no new players join.

awhmDuz.png

Edited by The_Pakistani
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On 11/3/2020 at 2:04 PM, Marcus said:

We would appreciate it if you answer the following questions after 3-4 days of playing with the new changes: 

  • Do you think that there were less occasions when you were destroyed where you spawned and were consequently completely useless to your team?
  • How did the benefit of well-timed overdrives and drones change? 
  • How did the importance of team gameplay change? 
  • Could this experiment change your interest in the game? 
  • Do you have any suggestions on how to improve these changes?

Well here's my first reply on the new forum.

Let me introduce myself, yes I have spent on this game, but by no means do I play like the majority of those who do. Those who know me, know I hate using meta combos which are clearly dominating the scene. I try to enjoy games as much as I can.

1. Well Sherlock here, firstly, gives us 5 minutes games, of course we'll die less on average ?. As for being destroyed at spawn, it's worse now, instead of getting spawn killed, no problem wait a couple seconds, with a one sided game, you'll just die half way to the objective, that is more worse saving enemy time and supplies and letting them get ready at the objective. Before to spawn kill you would need a constant player on a watch, now they can drop back and return with a friend or OD and just keep them on a slow spawn. This may not be spawn killing, but it is still being useless to the team when one sided games are more common with the current live test. Feeling useless yet? Hold up, there is also the double HP, damage remaining the same, many people can't produce the output needed, so whats the point if f2p players survive longer if they can't still get a decent chance to kill a single enemy??

2. As for overdrives current state, I have no issue with any currently, they all seem balanced and fair enough to me. Viking may have a long up-time, but it takes a long time to recharge. Each OD still has ways to counter each other. But for the drones scenario, I personally assumed that people would use booster more often. But it is clear that most of the community does not have the game IQ sense to realize it's still Offence > Defence. I still see more defender drone players. That is a given though, for example, lets take siege and assault attacking side, you just have to survive longer, I mean, double HP, with defender drone and a couple good module sets along with a Titan OD, pretty much easy to control isn't it?

3. Team gameplay did become more important, those who couldn't work as a team, nor sacrifice themselves for the greater picture, clearly ended up losing. I guess this may have been the only real positive to show how selfish many players are, or just how bad their chemistry is.

4. As the sole player in this game who religiously uses Shaft (Former Light Capacitors, current Armor-piecing sight), Hopper (Stun Immunity) and Crisis. This double HP has clearly made it essential for me to need a good team, however most teammates are unable to support me with the lack of damage they deal. For those who think i'm abusing an OP combo, then tell me why no one else is using it? (The purchaser community members who are using EMP Gauss/Shock Freeze on hopper). The combo I used was really the only thing that kept games fun for me and interesting, simply because NO ONE else uses it, try find someone who uses the same combo (not with rapid fire), 99.999% chance u won't in matchmaking. As for more information, clearly everyone has seen how there are way too many Isida's on some teams, and a good portion of these are also from the purchaser community. Now do tell me, with a team of f2p players, who can't produce a lot of damage, what on Earth or Pluto are they going to do when the enemy team pretty much keeps healing? Inserts toy story buzz lighting meme with a caption 'Isida Support Nanobots everywhere'. It is exceptionally boring to see the same thing everywhere.

5. Remember how shaft was meant to kill medium hulls on an equal footing? Well hey, you can't even do that to the current light hulls, that's depressing firstly. You wanted to buff hp, but couldn't start with a 50% buff, went for a straight 100%? Pretty overkill if you ask me. The damage in the game seemed pretty balanced as is before, it does not need any sort of adjustment. Remove ASL mode, it is hilariously easy to win on the attacking team with double HP, especially when many people including majority of the purchasers use defender drone. Any who lost either faced a very coordinated defending team, which is extremely rare, or had a bad team that could clearly not attack properly in a team. When many join a defending side on ASL, they leave, because they know how terrible and biased the update is towards this mode. 

Another thing, since killing tanks is harder, such missions should have their value reduced. Also since battles are shorter, reduce the 1 Star minimum score band to 45 or 40, I have seen many people incapable of producing a single star, and bluntly this is unfair on the players to have been in a game for 5 mins and still be incapable to get stars due to reduced duration and inability to deal damage with a weak tank.

There is a lot more to say about this, but I simply do not have the energy to keep displaying how ridiculous portions of this live testing are. Keep boring me and I shall go into another hibernation like I did in the past.

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6 hours ago, The_Pakistani said:

You play on firefox?

Try playing on client or chorme.

sir it would not make much difference in my battles. seeing I have been told over and over again my set is wrong and I need to change turrets or protection. also learn how to turn my turrets , lol

but I did find that I did get way more missions completed today seeing I went into the Juggernaut special battle map. boy it was easy and fun collecting. but did not get much in stars .

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Never introduce a 1000 mines mission again. NEVER

 

iuTjO7b.png

 

this guy is just selfing all the time to farm mines, not even shooting at enemies.. Nice mission

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best tanki online I'm currently playing a few days with the experiment. I'll say what I think is right and bad. the bad I find the dubble health of the tanks because now it takes far too long to kill someone and when I have killed him then me supplies jelly worked out. the second thing I think is bad is the repair kit it heals you super slow and if you play mammath or titan you sometimes have to use at least 2 you want to have full health. The third thing I think is bad is the 6vs6 because if someone leaves the team then you're already sure you're losing it's just not balanced. and the last thing I think is bad is the 5 minute battles because it's just way too short and you can barely get scores I think 7 minutes is just fine. The good thing I think is that you don't have to respawn that saves time and you can fight on longer. the second good thing is that the big maps were taken out because I never liked those maps to play. the third thing is I now find much faster battles than before. this was my opinion on this experiment :]

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16 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

You having trouble figuring out how much damage each turret does?  Thunder avg damage < 1000.  So even with DD you won't get one-shot.

And NOW you are talking about spawn-killing?  You forget about spawn protection?  Not even Hornet can damage that now.

Compare apples to apples when you try to make a point.

Nope, quite conversant with the damage specs of the turrets, I think you missed my point. You spawn in your wasp at 2000 points and are untouchable for a few seconds, you can shoot and activate one supply. You are faced with Viking/Thunder M7/20 on full drugs 1020HP is the max damage it can do X2 for DD plus 5% for the equipped drone and if you didn't equip DA you're dead. 

Anyway this is getting a bit off topic so I'll leave it here?

 

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13 hours ago, cmirotomill said:

No i'm not a FLYING CHEAT fan, no hull with it's overdrive can even compare to it.

I'm not gonna go over everything why this LEGAL CHEAT should be scrapped.

Suffice to say all the little kids and those with a low IQ think it's AWESOME and very balanced, because jumping on walls, and over mines, and shooting at players from on top of a building is just normal game play and in line just nicely with game balance.

Give your head a shake you spanner.

????? I'll lend you some crystals so you can buy one of you like?

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Gonna add another point that I have noticed. Because tanks take longer to kill, I have not experienced a single battle with lots of spawn killing. Most games are actually a bit slower and fought in the center of the map.

spawn,pop DA and drive away and you wont get spawn killed

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1 hour ago, Matt_Black said:

Nope, quite conversant with the damage specs of the turrets, I think you missed my point. You spawn in your wasp at 2000 points and are untouchable for a few seconds, you can shoot and activate one supply. You are faced with Viking/Thunder M7/20 on full drugs 1020HP is the max damage it can do X2 for DD plus 5% for the equipped drone and if you didn't equip DA you're dead. 

Anyway this is getting a bit off topic so I'll leave it here?

 

It does not do 1020 damage.  You are familiar with the Bell Curve right?

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I thought I'd aim todays play at TDM mode. It certainly lived up to its name TEDIUM! I managed 5 or 6 games before I gave up. Soooooo boring. Viking 10 of the 12 hulls, no surprise there, Rico and Twins abound. I had a TDM mission today and I pressed the change button gleefully.

I really don't like this mode or DM. I liked to teamplay in Tanki when I first started playing. Now it seems that instead of 12 strangers playing a game of football, where everyone knows how to play and what the rules are, 12 players walk on to the pitch 3 have a football, 3 have a frisbee, five are wearing boxing gloves, and one is just sat there licking the goalpost!

As requested after 4-5 days here are some of my thoughts.

1. Where there any occasions when I was spawn killed and useless to my team. 

Yes but no more or less than before the experiment, Spawn killing is caused by an imbalance in the match. The winning team charges overdrives faster, activate supplies so they overlap, and kill more players. The losing team drops members so it's harder to fight back and the cycle continues. Radically changing one or two game parameters is not going to change this. But Tanki, this topic has been discussed to death in the forums. Spawn killing is a game balance issue and you don't seem to want a balanced game. A balanced game is not going to be as profitable to you in the short term. Keep everyone guessing, buying the latest turret or alt of whatever is going to generate revenue until players are fed up with it and leave. Surely you can see it's not a sustainable model. I would love to see your figures for the last year or so for the special bundles in the shop. £10-15 a time then up to £50-100 a time! Did you make more money selling more for less? A balanced and fair game surely will attract more players. Individually they will pay less but together you will make more. 

2. Overdrives and drones.

Overdrives and drones now control this game almost entirely. Overdrives have to be the most contentious aspect of the game particularly with the release of the Hopper hull. I would love to see overdrives scrapped entirely, some of them seem to me to be a push button substitute for skill. Drive up in Hunter, stun everybody in sight, bull your way to the cap. Where is the skill in that? I'm a big fan of Hopper but it has made some game modes a bit of a joke. 

Drones give such an advantage that it's very hard to play without one. But that's the point of them really isn't it. Make a boost that's only available by paying for it. Sure you can play a drone FTP but you'll never be able to keep it in batteries for more than a few matches a week.

3. Team gameplay

Team gameplay was almost non existent before the experiment and I'm at a complete loss as to how you thought it would change. The same arguments that were put forward when they dropped frrom 15 minutes to ten are still being used. Now at 5 minutes they are even more potent. The lag in the game and MM dropping people in a seemingly random times means that one team can have capped a flag/point/whatever before the other team is even in the game. One player quits and before the game has even begun it's 6V5 1-0. Not exactly the best way to promote teamplay patrticularly with less than five minutes to try and turn it around I suggest the game has a countdown before which nobody can move or shoot until both teams are represented. 

Dump the challenge every month and bring it out 2-3 times a year. It's not promoting team play, quite the opposite. All players are out to score stars not play the objective. If you really want to promote teamplay make the missions more game mode orientated. Score goals and cap points instead of do damage and play X games in Mode X. Missions could be rank/experience/GS related. Play 3 games in siege is not exactly a difficult mission for a legend.

4. My interest in this game is already waining. This experiment has not changed that for better or worse. Change seems to be the only constant in Tanki, dangling shiny trinkets in front of the players while stabbing them in the back. It's been like this for a while now and I puppose most of us are used to it and put up with it as there isn't a similar game to Tanki we can move our allegiance to. I would bet real money that 5 minute 6V6 will be the norm from now on. I would be more interested in this game if a version of it were available where it had no overdrives,drones,alts,drugs, just a hull a turret a paint and decent gameplay. Don't tell me to play pro battles. If I create a battle of those parameters I sit in it alone for 30 minutes. MM is a mess but you can't have mobile without it I suppose.

5. Improve these changes?

Yeah, stop messing around with the game. If you really want to please the players and not just the payers gradually tweak the PTW features down. Dull down the overdrives so they are not the most important feature of the game, make the drones less effective but still useful. Buff the hull armour by 15-20% just to keep up with the increase in damage of the turret alts, change the freakin maps once in a while! There's what 30 available maps 20 of which are probably playable in MM so why are we playing on the same 8 maps all the time. You bring out a new map, Yay, but it's just island X3. Lazy Tanki, very lazy.

On the subject of maps some of them are wholly unsuitable for the game mode being played. On an equal footing game, for example, Rugby you have maps where one goal is on high ground and the other on low ground giving an advantage to one team. Massacre is a perfect example of a good map for this type of game as it's the same for both sides but you took it out.

Tanki, fix the things that need fixing and leave the rest alone. Turn down the PTW side of the game and encourage the gameplay that we all came here for in the first place.

 

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11 hours ago, CX2011 said:

What's the problem?

I did one mission of 300 kills very easy.

I'm not a buyer and I don't have any special drones full upgraded also!

That you respond to my post with "it's easy" just exposes you as a poseur.

And they don't give 300-kill daily missions so... fail again. 

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I am really not a fan of the update and I would be happy after these 2 weeks; It is ridiculous that with two snipershots and double damage with gauss a viking can't be destroyed. The only good thing is the viking overdrive is doubled, but that makes the game a bit boring. I'm also not a fan of the smaller team battles and shorter duration of the battles.

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