update Mad Tanks!

[Mick 103]

@RIDDLER_8 Everyone hate hopper because the much is overpowered at the moment with crisis drone and defender drone in ctf assalt and rugby mode when you have crisis and OD he can jump from one base to another base and with defender drone it is just too strong in lives. and they also steal your golds all the time if there is a gold box event.

[swoody2000 20]

• Do you think that there were less occasions when you were destroyed where you spawned and were consequently completely useless to your team?
  • I felt that there were ironically more occasions that I was completely useless to my team. With the extra health, I could take more damage, but everyone else also had more health, and basically I would spend even more time fighting a losing battle (because they would have full supplies, while as I spawned in I could only choose 1 at a time), which would then cause me to take even more time having to respawn again. I also faced many more battles where I would spend around 20-30 seconds just holding space against an opponent, waiting for them to die because with extra health, we both just kept firing with no quick resolution. Gameplay was much slower.
• How did the benefit of well-timed overdrives and drones change?
  • The use of drones did not change at all. You still have the same major drones being used in Miner (For people that camp) and defender (for people that attack). There did not appear to be any changes in that regard. As for overdrives, they were affected in several different ways. 
    • In assault, CTF, Rugby, you were basically forced to use hopper or hunter on defense because you needed the ability to make tanks drop the flag. With the extra health and fewer team members, defenders had no way to kill enemy tanks before they could make it to the capture point
    • Viking OD is simultaneously too powerful due to the extra time, and yet takes too long to charge with the shorter gameplay.
    • Titan's dome made everyone in it basically invincible. Particularly with hornet's update, there was no way to kill tanks in a dome without an EMP or Wasp bomb already charged up. It basically further encouraged the absolute necessity of hunter in other game modes.
    • Siege was basically unplayable because tanks would not die, so unless you had a complete lack of balance in the game (which happens quite frequently) the game would end 0-0. It was completely dominated by titan and dictator-isidas.
• How did the importance of team gameplay change?
  • This update puts enormous value on team gameplay, which is just not smart because there is no way to effectively communicate unless you are in a group call with friends. With less players and more health, teams need to be able to focus on 1 enemy at a time, and destroy that one before moving on to the next, or organize how they are going to attack/defend depending on the gamemode. Tanki is not at the stage where it has the ability for team gameplay. Due to the only way to communicate being typing in chat, you have to choose between helping in the battle, or giving instructions. That is also without even considering the team balancing, which is very rarely even. Almost every game is completely unbalanced, with players that don't have appropriate skill or equipment for the level.
• Could this experiment change your interest in the game?
  • If this experiment stayed in the game, I would definitely no longer play Tanki.
• Do you have any suggestions on how to improve these changes?
  • First and foremost, 2X health with no damage increases is impossible. Particularly when combined with shorter battles, you just spend way too long on each fight, and any sort of flag based gamemode is impossible. At most, perhaps 1.5X increase could have been interesting to try, but even then some turrets would need buffs. By updating the health, any turrets that are single shot turrets are basically useless. The entire purpose of long range turrets is to be able to 1 shot, or almost 1 shot, their targets. This update made shaft, railgun, magnum, gauss (except for emp gauss (PTW)), and hammer all completely useless. All of these weapons are designed to do massive damage, and then reload while you find your next target. This does not happen because it requires too many shots to kill. Particularly when you take into account that the original disadvantage of short range turrets was getting to the long range turrets before getting killed. With double health, that is no longer a concern. So I would suggest nerfing the health to 1.5X (or preferably even just back to where it was, I did not have a problem with it), as well as buffing the damage of long range/single shot turrets. I view this aspect of being able to kill people instantly as the skill gap that exists in tanki. Tanks that are able to destroy others instantly are usually the better tanks, and they deserve to be rewarded for that.
  • I do like getting rid of some of the larger maps. Stadium, highway, and massacre in particular were not very enjoyable for me. 6 on 6 does work in the smaller maps, but the combination of less people and more health absolutely destroys several of the game modes. Particularly with the shorter time, there were more and more people leaving with the spaces not getting filled. Thus what was a 6v6 quickly transformed into 6v4 and 6v3 once a team got behind. I personally think that 7 or 8 minutes would be a better length of time for the battle because it gives people time to get invested in that battle, rather than already looking to the next one. There is no incentive for people to stay and try to win the game once a capture is made because with only 2 minutes to go, the game is basically already over.
  • I don't like to keep harping on one point, but it is extremely important to take the health back down, or nerf turrets. This update severely slowed the game down because so much time had to be spent focusing on the single opponent. Particularly in conjunction with the shorter battle time, this was just a dreadful combination for interest in the game. What makes the battles enjoyable is their speed of the gameplay, and this drastically decreased the speed.
  • The other suggestion I have is to improve team balancing. I would approximate that about 10% of my battles have teams that are even, while the other 90% have 1 team that dominates. Some of that is due to imbalances in the maps themselves, but they are largely due to the better players being placed on the same team.

[wolverine848 13,097]

10 hours ago, Akame said:

I'm afraid sir, we need to enroll you onto a program to understand how HP works, i will look into it for all types of hulls.

Well you left out the Defender drone so... maybe try again.

And hate to break it to you, but unless you play regularly in a group/with friends there is very little team-work.  In TO it's basically everyone doing their own thing.

I've seen three defenders trying to kill incoming incoming Hoppers to no avail.  I have played about 10 Assault battles during the experiment as "attacker" and in each battle the "attackers" slaughtered the defenders... avg score was ~ 70-15.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by wolverine848

[Coriolano 78]

@swoody2000 I only want add single shot turrets need large maps because of 2X health with no damage increases. On a large map Shaft, for example, could reload before a light hull reach it. 

[Akame 4,578]

33 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Well you left out the Defender module so... maybe try again.

And hate to break it to you, but unless you play regularly in a group/with friends there is very little team-work.  In TO it's basically everyone doing their own thing.

I've seen three defenders trying to kill incoming incoming Hoppers to no avail.  I have played about 10 Assault battles during the experiment as "attacker" and in each battle the "attackers" slaughtered the defenders... avg score was ~ 70-15.

 

 

What defender module, check the second table, im sure u can do the rest of the calculation yourself, it does show overall damage reduction with a Defender on heavy and with module to aside.

Hate to break it to you, but i have had a small portion of defending assault games, some against hoppers which I have either won or been very close, i.e 34-35, this morning in chernobyl, managed to win like 30 something - 5 whilst defending (unfortunately don't have a screenshot for that one), like i said, teamwork, and no I didn't group, played with randoms.
 

Some ASL Defending team wins:

Spoiler

A ASL Defending team close games:

Spoiler

Yes of course attacking team have hoppers and more HP, but you just gotta kill them, some maps have up to 3 flags, each team 6 players, 2v1 an attacker.
Yes I have Shaft's AP augment, that helps me enable allies to deal full damage to players. But this doesn't change the fact that I need a TEAM to win.

[Dridrien 157]

3 minutes ago, Akame said:

Quel module de défenseur, vérifiez le deuxième tableau, je suis sûr que vous pouvez faire le reste du calcul vous-même, il montre la réduction globale des dégâts avec un Defender sur lourd et avec un module de côté.

Je déteste vous le dire, mais j'ai eu une petite partie de matchs d'assaut en défense, certains contre des hoppers que j'ai gagnés ou que j'ai été très proches, c'est-à-dire 34-35, ce matin à Tchernobyl, j'ai réussi à gagner comme 30 quelque chose - 5 en défendant (malheureusement je n'ai pas de capture d'écran pour celui-là), comme je l'ai dit, le travail d'équipe, et non je n'ai pas groupé, joué avec des aléas.
 

Certaines équipes en défense de l'ASL gagnent:

  Révéler le contenu caché

Une équipe ASL en défense ferme les matchs:

  Révéler le contenu caché

Oui, bien sûr, l'équipe attaquante a des hoppers et plus de HP, mais vous devez juste les tuer, certaines cartes ont jusqu'à 3 drapeaux, chaque équipe 6 joueurs, 2v1 un attaquant.
Oui, j'ai l'augmentation AP de Shaft, qui m'aide à permettre aux alliés d'infliger tous les dégâts aux joueurs. Mais cela ne change pas le fait que j'ai besoin d'une ÉQUIPE pour gagner.

easy to say that, you play with a drone. A player without a drone is not going to get there.

[Akame 4,578]

Just now, Dridrien said:

easy to say that, you play with a drone. A player without a drone is not going to get there.

My allies don't always have a drone either, like i said I enable my team to produce a better outcome by helping them out with Shafts AP augment. Now if you want to call that 'pay 2 win', let me remind you, that alone, it is impossible to win on an ASL defending team.

[Double.kokos 4]

Tankers should leave feedback here so this is mine:

The update was not all that bad, I could live with the increased damage etc, less players in the team is definitely better for JGR. (not that good for TDM tho), but the problem was the unbalanced MM system and people quitting after less than a minute, if one team had an advatage - thus creating 5v2 battle, which is not OK.

I don't like that big maps were removed. The developers should first create new and better ones and only then remove old maps. Large maps were nescessary for long range turrets - Shaft, Railgun. Also the increased health was not great for these turrets, as these are now not able to do one-shot kills.

I didn't enjoy the 5 min battles, some overdrives recharge too slowly and there is often a 0-0 score in SGE and CTF.

 

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

4 minutes ago, Akame said:

What defender module, check the second table, im sure u can do the rest of the calculation yourself, it does show overall damage reduction with a Defender on heavy and with module to aside.

Hate to break it to you, but i have had a small portion of defending assault games, some against hoppers which I have either won or been very close, i.e 34-35, this morning in chernobyl, managed to win like 30 something - 5 whilst defending (unfortunately don't have a screenshot for that one), like i said, teamwork, and no I didn't group, played with randoms.
 

Some ASL Defending team wins:

  Reveal hidden contents

A ASL Defending team close games:

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes of course attacking team have hoppers and more HP, but you just gotta kill them, some maps have up to 3 flags, each team 6 players, 2v1 an attacker.
Yes I have Shaft's AP augment, that helps me enable allies to deal full damage to players. But this doesn't change the fact that I need a TEAM to win.

In your ASL Defending team wins... do you honestly consider those teams balanced?

As I said - I went 10-and-Oh as attacker. With 2x health combined with Defender drone, it's almost impossible to stop the attackers.  Sure there might be a few maps that help out the defenders, but (way) more often than not the attackers will win.

[Dridrien 157]

Il y a 1 minute, Akame a déclaré:

Mes alliés n'ont pas toujours de drone non plus, comme je l'ai dit, je permets à mon équipe de produire un meilleur résultat en les aidant avec l'activation de Shafts AP. Maintenant, si vous voulez appeler cela «payer 2 victoire», laissez-moi vous rappeler que seul, il est impossible de gagner sur une équipe en défense ASL.

yes it is true from this principle anyone can succeed with drones. But I'm speaking as a player who doesn't use a drone. It's like comparing the one that rides a Ferrari and the one that rides a byciclette, it's not possible that we have the same opinions.

[Dridrien 157]

5 minutes ago, Double.kokos said:

Les pétroliers devraient laisser des commentaires ici, donc c'est le mien:

La mise à jour n'était pas si mauvaise que ça, je pourrais vivre avec l'augmentation des dégâts, etc., moins de joueurs dans l'équipe, c'est définitivement mieux pour JGR. (pas si bon pour TDM tho), mais le problème était le système MM déséquilibré et les gens qui quittaient après moins d'une minute, si une équipe avait un avantage - créant ainsi une bataille 5v2, ce qui n'est pas OK.

Je n'aime pas que les grandes cartes aient été supprimées. Les développeurs doivent d'abord en créer de nouvelles et meilleures, puis supprimer les anciennes cartes. Les grandes cartes étaient nécessaires pour les tourelles à longue portée - Shaft, Railgun. De plus, l'augmentation de la santé n'était pas excellente pour ces tourelles, car elles ne sont plus capables de tuer en un seul coup.

Je n'ai pas apprécié les combats de 5 min, certains overdrives se rechargent trop lentement et il y a souvent un score de 0-0 en SGE et CTF.

 

 

Personally, when you see that those who are on hoppers with drones, you don't want to stay, you know you're not going to have fun. So a lot of players are leaving the battle.

[Akame 4,578]

8 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

In your ASL Defending team wins... do you honestly consider those teams balanced?

As I said - I went 10-and-Oh as attacker. With 2x health combined with Defender drone, it's almost impossible to stop the attackers.  Sure there might be a few maps that help out the defenders, but (way) more often than not the attackers will win.

The games all start at 6v6, some leave half way due to getting killed easily, this includes defender players who don't have AP immunity, trust me, if I am in your game on the defending side, you will understand how it feels to be hit by an AP effect, it will hit hard. AP is the current meta for this live testing, EMP is a thing of the past.

Had an attacker equip 50% shaft module, along with defender drone maxed in Kungur, he ended up running from the game due to being killed easily, thanks to AP.

Spoiler

https://discord.com/channels/476511575495409705/476630223534948362/775224044823379968 message link on tanki discord server, requires level 5 to view atleast.

Although yes everyone knows that ASL attacking team has a major advantage, ALL the mode reason that no matter the powers, a 7k GS can cap as often as he/she wants provided he can drive and keep tanking damage or driving properly, it STILL depends on the team to want to work together and make a distraction to pull the capture.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Akame
Additional information included

[Dridrien 157]

3 minutes ago, Akame said:

Les jeux commencent tous à 6v6, certains partent à mi-chemin en raison de se faire tuer facilement, cela inclut les joueurs défenseurs qui n'ont pas d'immunité AP, croyez-moi, si je suis dans votre jeu du côté défenseur, vous comprendrez ce que ça fait de être touché par un effet AP, il frappera fort. AP est la méta actuelle pour ce test en direct, EMP est une chose du passé.

Si un attaquant avait équipé le module d'arbre à 50%, ainsi que le drone défenseur au maximum à Kungur, il a fini par fuir le jeu en raison d'être tué facilement, grâce à AP.

  Révéler le contenu caché

https://discord.com/channels/476511575495409705/476630223534948362/775224044823379968  lien de message sur le serveur tanki discord, nécessite le niveau 5 pour afficher au moins.

 

it is certain that if you have all the necessary equipment, you can do what you want. Your opinion does not help, it is logic.

[Akame 4,578]

Just now, Dridrien said:

it is certain that if you have all the necessary equipment, you can do what you want. Your opinion does not help, it is logic.

You say it as if my combo is crazy OP, since when have you seen a SHAFT on a hopper with crisis??? I'm 100% certain you haven't seen that, at least one that actively uses mouse controls on HTML. I have played with other combo's too, just for your information, I am not biased here. Must I keep reminding people that this game is not a solo game, it is a TEAM game. Yes some teammates may be useless at times, that all the more proves it.

[Dridrien 157]

Tout à l'heure, Akame a dit:

Tu le dis comme si mon combo était fou OP, depuis quand as-tu vu un SHAFT sur une trémie en crise ??? Je suis sûr à 100% que vous ne l'avez pas vu, au moins un qui utilise les contrôles de la souris sur HTML. J'ai aussi joué avec d'autres combos, juste pour votre information, je ne suis pas partiel ici. Dois-je continuer à rappeler aux gens que ce jeu n'est pas un jeu solo, c'est un jeu d'équipe. Oui, certains coéquipiers peuvent parfois être inutiles, cela le prouve plus.

vous avez 9999 GC donc c'est plein OP. I have seen several. it is common to meet hoppers. with this drone it is a little rarer but not impossible. When you do everything in battle. It's not a team game. It's just the others who take advantage of your equipment. You don't have to have 20 years of experience to figure that out.

[Towns 574]

1 minute ago, Akame said:

You say it as if my combo is crazy OP, since when have you seen a SHAFT on a hopper with crisis??? I'm 100% certain you haven't seen that, at least one that actively uses mouse controls on HTML. I have played with other combo's too, just for your information, I am not biased here. Must I keep reminding people that this game is not a solo game, it is a TEAM game. Yes some teammates may be useless at times, that all the more proves it.

99.99999% of the playerbase doesn't know this is true. Also Shaft with AP augment is OP either way, hands down. The fact people believe that 6v6 is good is saddening. It should be 8v8, over 55% of the playerbase agrees. In the end, opinions never matter in TO, because the devs twist our words to suit them. I mean, you do have like 60k+ of all supplies, and access to a FULL garage of stuff (all fully MUed), while some of us don't even have Mk7s yet. 

 

Look at me, for example. I only grinded to get General rank. Quitting the game until all Mad Tanks changes have been reverted, currently. I am stuck in a never-ending vortex of partly upgraded equipment, and I am yet to find the product kit I would really like. On a side note, I believe that the fact you even use Hopper in the first place makes it even more sad, because it's easy abuse in these following modes:

- CTF

- ASL

- RGB

 

Trust me, Hopper - Shaft with AP immunity is OP, is never gonna get nerfed but is something everyone would leave battles upon seeing.

[Akame 4,578]

9 minutes ago, Dridrien said:

vous avez 9999 GC donc c'est plein OP. I have seen several. it is common to meet hoppers. with this drone it is a little rarer but not impossible. When you do everything in battle. It's not a team game. It's just the others who take advantage of your equipment. You don't have to have 20 years of experience to figure that out.

No drone used, enemy team had not 1, but 2 hoppers. This is TEAM WORK. Don't @ for clout, I told you, I'm not biased, I've done my research, now dont go talking about low GS's, double HP exists. we played smarter, that's all.

[Dridrien 157]

@Akame    Are you kidding? saw you the ****ty team in the face even I could have won. the team opposite has scores of 2500, 5000 and 7500. Your team they all have scores of around 9000. It's like you're playing 6 vs 3. It's just that your team has better gear than them. Please stop contradicting yourself. There is no team work. Besides, I'm not even talking about protections. everyone has protection 50 except one against protection 40, 20,10

[Akame 4,578]

6 minutes ago, Dridrien said:

@Akame    Are you kidding? saw you the ****ty team in the face even I could have won. the team opposite has scores of 2500, 5000 and 7500. Your team they all have scores of around 9000. It's like you're playing 6 vs 3. It's just that your team has better gear than them. Please stop contradicting yourself. There is no team work. Besides, I'm not even talking about protections. everyone has protection 50 except one against protection 40, 20,10

Bro, stop the cap, we worked as a team, they had a camper who didn't help out for attacking, stop the cap now, you're just being ignorant of why teamplay is important.

3 ramp locations, 2 hoppers who can hop and cap, we made them only cap 2 flags in the whole game, now if that's not bad enemy team chemistry, then I don't know what to say.
It's about how well someone uses their gear with their teams gear, stop being ignorant of this fact.

[Dridrien 157]

@Akame  pardonnez-moi, 6 contre 2 car il y en a qui n'attaquent pas. C'est commun avec Gauss. Alors bonne idée d'utiliser la protection 50. entraide, jeu en équipe oui, mais il faut se rappeler que sans un tel équipement, on ne gagnerait pas. and I forget this card is easy to defend.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Dridrien

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, Akame said:

The games all start at 6v6, some leave half way due to getting killed easily, this includes defender players who don't have AP immunity, trust me, if I am in your game on the defending side, you will understand how it feels to be hit by an AP effect, it will hit hard. AP is the current meta for this live testing, EMP is a thing of the past.

Had an attacker equip 50% shaft module, along with defender drone maxed in Kungur, he ended up running from the game due to being killed easily, thanks to AP.

You did not answer my question.  Once more - can you honestly say in the examples you posted where defending team won in Assault, the teams were balanced?

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, Akame said:

No drone used, enemy team had not 1, but 2 hoppers. This is TEAM WORK. Don't @ for clout, I told you, I'm not biased, I've done my research, now dont go talking about low GS's, double HP exists. we played smarter, that's all.

Please stop - the other team had TWO mults out of 6.  No Legend should be entering a battle with GS < 6000.

Those GS scores are way, way below average.  I would have left that team, and that is probably what happened - players left and were filled by new ones that need to start generating ODs - which make or break the game.

[Akame 4,578]

19 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

You did not answer my question.  Once more - can you honestly say in the examples you posted where defending team won in Assault, the teams were balanced?

 

11 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Please stop - the other team had TWO mults out of 6.  No Legend should be entering a battle with GS < 6000.

Those GS scores are way, way below average.  I would have left that team, and that is probably what happened - players left and were filled by new ones that need to start generating ODs - which make or break the game.

 

55 minutes ago, Dridrien said:

@Akame  pardonnez-moi, 6 contre 2 car il y en a qui n'attaquent pas. C'est commun avec Gauss. Alors bonne idée d'utiliser la protection 50. entraide, jeu en équipe oui, mais il faut se rappeler que sans un tel équipement, on ne gagnerait pas. and I forget this card is easy to defend.

This was a full 6V6, dont @ for gs clout u nerds, i used no drone again, they had campers, thats not my fault, like ive said 3000 times, its TEAM WORK, stop clowning around.

Spoiler

You both can be ignorant of team play, I shall not, see you on the battle field, may the better team win

[Akame 4,578]

@wolverine848 @Dridriennow do tell me, GS matters? or TEAMPLAY does????

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 minutes ago, Akame said:

@wolverine848 @Dridriennow do tell me, GS matters? or TEAMPLAY does????

Also helps when you are playing teams that seem to favor killing in Assault over capping. Top 3 opponents went 8-0, 7-4, 6-4.  Did they even try to cap?

Congrats.