category Ideas for Augments!

[Picassoo 134]

We're never gonna agree on which is better - that's fine.

 

And I can understand if someone doesn't favor the rapid-fire version - different mechanics and tactics.

 

But what I don't understand is - if you're not going to choose auto-cannon, why choose Supercumulative over Stock?

You cut your critical chances in half, but only gain a bonus of 50% to the crit when it eventually happens.

You mention DPS... well... the DPS of Super is definitely lower than Stock. Math doesn't lie.

 

Even if the bonus damage was 100% - so over 20 shots the overall damage is a trade-off, I still wouldn't choose Super as you have to wait longer to realize the same end-results.  It makes no sense.

If you do not count, -50% critical chance for 50% more critical damage seems bad. But, as you said, math doesn't lie)

 

I will be using M4 stats for this comparison.

You see, both turrets will shoot 10 shots in the same amount of time. 535 is the average damage for a standard shot. So, a stock Smoky will deal 8*535 + 2*800 = 5880 throughout 10 shots: 8 standard ones, and 2 ctits since the critical chance is 20%. Divide that by 10, and you will get an average stock smoky-shot. Divide the resulting damage by Smoky's reload time, and you have the turrets DPS, which is 392.

 

Now the Supercumulative rounds. Throughout 10 shots it will fire 9 normal rounds and 1 crit, for the critical chance has been reduced to 10%. However, the critical hits now deal 1200 damage. So 10 shots with this alteration will deal 9*535 + 1200 = 6015. You can already see that the alteration increases Smoky's damage. But lets just finish it up. After dividing that amount by 10, and then by Smoky's reload time, you will get the turrets DPS: 401.

 

To sum up: the average damage per shot is 588 without the alt, 601,5 with Supercumulative. The stock version manages the DPS of 392, while the modified version manages 401. Hope I disclosed this for once. Yes, a lot of people think it lowers the turrets DPS, but count it properly, and you will come up with the same result every single time (unless they nerf this alt, since it is quite useful).

Edited April 14, 2019 by Picassoo

[Hate 5,582]

 

 

Topics merged.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

Otherwise, the fact that Autocannon is not good for flanking, rocking, peek-a-boo or deflecting will give the opponent the upper hand.

Autocannon is a typical rapid fire high-DPS turret. It can do nothing except winning 1v1 without cover. Any covering enemy puts Autocannon into huge disadvantage and usually kills it.

 

I use Incendiary rounds because I find incendiary crit much better than the normal one. It deals 1500 afterburn damage, 750 when enemy has DA. At every range. That is a lot.

 

Effectivity of different Smokies and Thunders (except OP Sledgehammer):

 

Long range - Incendiary S. > Stock S. > Supercumulative S. > Stock T. > Subcaliber T. > Cryo S. > Assault S. > Autocannon S. (loses against peek-a-boo)

 

Medium range - Incendiary S. > Stock T. > Subcaliber T. > Cryo S. > Stock S. > Supercumulative S. > Assault S. > Autocannon S. (loses against peek-a-boo)

 

Short range - Cryo S. (can circle like Freeze) > Autocannon S. (high DPS) > Incendiary S. > Stock S. > Supercumulative S. > Subcaliber T. > Assault S. > Stock T. (self-damage)

[wolverine848 13,097]

If you do not count, -50% critical chance for 50% more critical damage seems bad. But, as you said, math doesn't lie)

 

 

 

I will be using M4 stats for this comparison.

You see, both turrets will shoot 10 shots in the same amount of time. 535 is the average damage for a standard shot. So, a stock Smoky will deal 8*535 + 2*800 = 5880 throughout 10 shots: 8 standard ones, and 2 ctits since the critical chance is 20%. Divide that by 10, and you will get an average stock smoky-shot. Divide the resulting damage by Smoky's reload time, and you have the turrets DPS, which is 392.

 

Now the Supercumulative rounds. Throughout 10 shots it will fire 9 normal rounds and 1 crit, for the critical chance has been reduced to 10%. However, the critical hits now deal 1200 damage. So 10 shots with this alteration will deal 9*535 + 1200 = 6015. You can already see that the alteration increases Smoky's damage. But lets just finish it up. After dividing that amount by 10, and then by Smoky's reload time, you will get the turrets DPS: 401.

 

To sum up: the average damage per shot is 588 without the alt, 601,5 with Supercumulative. The stock version manages the DPS of 392, while the modified version manages 401. Hope I disclosed this for once. Yes, a lot of people think it lowers the turrets DPS, but count it properly, and you will come up with the same result every single time (unless they nerf this alt, since it is quite useful).

 

 

It takes you 13.5 seconds to reach that full effect.

And this is assuming best conditions = 100m or less. 

 

Once you start to account for < dmg due to longer range, the diff between criticals and normal damage becomes greater.

 

Stock does enough damage in 9 seconds to kill a heavy hull.  Super takes 10.5 seconds.

Auto-cannon reaches time-to-kill medium hull in 7 seconds - better than either Stock or Super

You can have your DPS.  I'd rather have "time-to-kill".

Edited April 14, 2019 by wolverine848

[Calamity 7]

M3 Alteration for Railgun The name for this alteration would be "Fear Machine" and you might understand what I'm recommending from just those two words. - damage is destabilized but also lowered. So around from 0-1250 + impact force is dramatically increased 50% or more (preferably even more than that) - recoil would be greater - impact force decreases by 25% for each tank penetrated. If Devs want to add more have less then adjust percentages till you think is fair.

[Truthteller 4,204]

The firebird modules could play a negative role for incendiary smoky

[Picassoo 134]

It takes you 13.5 seconds to reach that full effect.

And this is assuming best conditions = 100m or less. 

 

Once you start to account for < dmg due to longer range, the diff between criticals and normal damage becomes greater.

 

Stock does enough damage in 9 seconds to kill a heavy hull.  Super takes 10.5 seconds.

Auto-cannon reaches time-to-kill medium hull in 7 seconds - better than either Stock or Super

You can have your DPS.  I'd rather have "time-to-kill".

On an average basis, a Smoky will kill tanks in the same amount of time regardless if it gets a crit or not. The Supercumulative critical actually changes something. Also, your initial critical chance after spawning remains unchanged, so with the Supercumulative rounds you are likely to achieve the effect early.

 

Also, Super takes 7,5 secs to kill a med without a crit, with crit it is 6 secs. So on average it takes 6,75 secs. Better than Autocannon. You could argue that Auto stops RK's, but the situation we are talking about is on an open terrain, pretty much the best for Auto. A long range match is not good for Auto, since there is bound to be cover. Think about a proximity battle, with cover. Easy win for Super. With even a small wall it can kill Auto with half of it's health still remaining.

[wolverine848 13,097]

On an average basis, a Smoky will kill tanks in the same amount of time regardless if it gets a crit or not. The Supercumulative critical actually changes something. Also, your initial critical chance after spawning remains unchanged, so with the Supercumulative rounds you are likely to achieve the effect early.

 

Also, Super takes 7,5 secs to kill a med without a crit, with crit it is 6 secs. So on average it takes 6,75 secs. Better than Autocannon. You could argue that Auto stops RK's, but the situation we are talking about is on an open terrain, pretty much the best for Auto. A long range match is not good for Auto, since there is bound to be cover. Think about a proximity battle, with cover. Easy win for Super. With even a small wall it can kill Auto with half of it's health still remaining.

Super is not getting a critical in 6 seconds.  Takes Stock that long and Super chances are greatly reduced.  If you are trying to apply spawning into the formula you are dying a lot - and that's not good.

 

But you are correct about Stock and Super killing medium in 7.5 seconds while Auto can do it in 7.0 seconds.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Super is not getting a critical in 6 seconds.  Takes Stock that long and Super chances are greatly reduced.  If you are trying to apply spawning into the formula you are dying a lot - and that's not good.

 

But you are correct about Stock and Super killing medium in 7.5 seconds while Auto can do it in 7.0 seconds.

A  Supercumulative Rounds Smoky can get its critical shot on 3 seconds flat. Remember, it doesn't work like the gauge they showed us in...I can't even find the V-Log. I spent an hour looking for it but couldn't find it. 

 

To summarise, A Stock Smoky of any tier can get a critical shot at least on its 2nd shot after spawning. For Supercumulative Smoky, it can get a critical at least on its 3rd shot after spawning which would be exactly on 3 seconds for M4 Smoky. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

A  Supercumulative Rounds Smoky can get its critical shot on 3 seconds flat. Remember, it doesn't work like the gauge they showed us in...I can't even find the V-Log. I spent an hour looking for it but couldn't find it. 

 

To summarise, A Stock Smoky of any tier can get a critical shot at least on its 2nd shot after spawning. For Supercumulative Smoky, it can get a critical at least on its 3rd shot after spawning which would be exactly on 3 seconds for M4 Smoky. 

Would be good to see the source.

 

"Initial critical chance" at all m-levels is 0%.  I take this to be when spawning.  Correct me if wrong.

 

After that it works it's way upward.  OK - there's a chance it might get a critical that early.  But the chance is very small, and on average it will take much longer than that due to the low base 10% critical.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Would be good to see the source.

 

"Initial critical chance" at all m-levels is 0%.  I take this to be when spawning.  Correct me if wrong.

 

After that it works it's way upward.  OK - there's a chance it might get a critical that early.  But the chance is very small, and on average it will take much longer than that due to the low base 10% critical.

Right, right, right. I was looking at the "minimal critical chance" and not the initial critical chance. I had assumed that the minimal critical chance was what made Smoky unable to get a critical shot on its first shot since the chance is negative and two shots of the Smoky would put it to positive so yeah...just a misunderstanding. 

 

Yes, the initial critical chance is 0% after (re)spawning.

 

In the video I watched (if I remember clearly, it was in Sandbox and it was showing a Dictator + Smoky shooting at a tank and there was a gauge filling with each shot. When the gauge hit the top of itself, the critical appeared) I think it took 5 or 6 shots for the critical to happen. I've seen players get criticals two shots after respawning and even after getting a previous critical (which is where minimal critical chance comes in). 

 

I remember a time where an Autocannon Smoky was shooting me and it got 2 criticals in the space of 4 shots: Critical, shot, shot, Critical. Each shot above a positive % of getting a critical has a chance to get it. 

 

 

 

Edit: I'll look a bit harder to see if I find the video. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Kill_the_Propaganda2

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

Right, right, right. I was looking at the "minimal critical chance" and not the initial critical chance. I had assumed that the minimal critical chance was what made Smoky unable to get a critical shot on its first shot since the chance is negative and two shots of the Smoky would put it to positive so yeah...just a misunderstanding. 

 

Yes, the initial critical chance is 0% after (re)spawning.

 

In the video I watched (if I remember clearly, it was in Sandbox and it was showing a Dictator + Smoky shooting at a tank and there was a gauge filling with each shot. When the gauge hit the top of itself, the critical appeared) I think it took 5 or 6 shots for the critical to happen. I've seen players get criticals two shots after respawning and even after getting a previous critical (which is where minimal critical chance comes in). 

 

I remember a time where an Autocannon Smoky was shooting me and it got 2 criticals in the space of 4 shots: Critical, shot, shot, Critical. Each shot above a positive % of getting a critical has a chance to get it. 

 

 

Edit: I'll look a bit harder to see if I find the video. 

 

 

There is another stat in WIKI called "minimum critical chance" - I believe this is applied as soon as you get a critical.

At m4 it is -30%.   Would be a once-in-a-blue-moon to see it go from -30 to crit in 2 shots, when your base is only 20%.

Can it happen?  I guess.  Should you rely on that?  Big Fat NO.

 

For the video... 5 shots sounds about average with 20% base.

[Picassoo 134]

Super is not getting a critical in 6 seconds.  Takes Stock that long and Super chances are greatly reduced.  If you are trying to apply spawning into the formula you are dying a lot - and that's not good.

 

But you are correct about Stock and Super killing medium in 7.5 seconds while Auto can do it in 7.0 seconds.

7,5 seconds and 6 seconds every second time, so Super is faster on average than Auto. This happens even if you deal 35 damage less than average with each shot.

 

So Auto has a quite debatable (in my opinion: pretty much nonexistent unless we are talking about killing heavies or 50% protected tanks) damage advantage, for which it sacrifices alpha damage, thus the ability to peek-a-boom and hull-rocking. Sometimes the extra range comes in handy, but this is not the case too often – find me a map with 100 meters length of open space which someone would likely drive through.

 

Autocannon can be useful, but it cannot adapt to most battle situations, thus it is generally less useful than the stock, Super or Incendiary Smoky.

[wolverine848 13,097]

7,5 seconds and 6 seconds every second time, so Super is faster on average than Auto. This happens even if you deal 35 damage less than average with each shot.

 

 

 

So Auto has a quite debatable (in my opinion: pretty much nonexistent unless we are talking about killing heavies or 50% protected tanks) damage advantage, for which it sacrifices alpha damage, thus the ability to peek-a-boom and hull-rocking. Sometimes the extra range comes in handy, but this is not the case too often – find me a map with 100 meters length of open space which someone would likely drive through.

 

Autocannon can be useful, but it cannot adapt to most battle situations, thus it is generally less useful than the stock, Super or Incendiary Smoky.

 

 

If this is true then it's messed up.  That's not even close to the "10%" it should be.

 

On medium or smaller maps I don't use smoky at all, regardless of alteration.  I use Ricco. Much better at killing up close or with walls.

[Truthteller 4,204]

7,5 seconds and 6 seconds every second time, so Super is faster on average than Auto. This happens even if you deal 35 damage less than average with each shot.

 

So Auto has a quite debatable (in my opinion: pretty much nonexistent unless we are talking about killing heavies or 50% protected tanks) damage advantage, for which it sacrifices alpha damage, thus the ability to peek-a-boom and hull-rocking. Sometimes the extra range comes in handy, but this is not the case too often – find me a map with 100 meters length of open space which someone would likely drive through.

 

Autocannon can be useful, but it cannot adapt to most battle situations, thus it is generally less useful than the stock, Super or Incendiary Smoky.

That is nice information, when I use autocannon my kills are usually stolen too (more than SS) I think it should get normal damage buff or something similar 

[TheReaperLeviathan 31]

magnum alt Concentrated Shells

max/min damage + 20% 

impact force +50%

charge time -50%

reload + 40%

no splash damage

cost 70,000

 

 

smoky alt Super Ammo

 

only shoot critical shots

reload is a little longer than railgun's ( you figure it out )

no auto aim

cost 100,000

 

 

shaft alt Unstable Energy

 

splash damage in sniper mode ( 5 meters )

10% longer sniper charge

turning speed - 15%

cost 30,000

 

ricochet alt Growing Plasma

 

each shot that ricochets adds + 25 damage per ricochet. 

impact force + 25%

max/min  damage - 30

recoil + 40

cost 40,000

 

 

thunder alt High Explosive Rounds

 

impact force + 200

splash damage range + 40%

recoil + 60

turning speed -20%

reload + 40%

cost 130,000

 

striker alt Rocket Punch

shoots many small rockets

can shoot 2 rockets at a time and not just one, reload is the same.

max projectile speed + 30%

max damage -45 %

min damage -45%

also effects salvo rockets, number of rockets stay the same.

cost 70,000

 

smoky alt Burst Rounds

kinda like auto cannon but different

shoot 3 shots at the same time, delay between shots 0.15 ( you cant control how many you shoot, you always shoot 3 rounds).

impact force + 15% 

reload time reload + 6 seconds

turning speed -20%

cost 300,000 

 

freeze alt Whiteout

cone angle 40

​energy consumption per second + 20%

cost 30,000 

 

firebird alt Spreader

 if a enemy tank touches a tank you set on fire they also gain that burning effect

reload  + 20%

 

cost 89,000 

 

shaft alt Mobile Sniper

energy consumption in sniper mode +90%

maximum and min damage in arcade mode - 30%

reload + 50%

cost 90,000

 

shaft alt Unmovable

tank is very stable and very hard to push around

 -10% turning speed

cost 15,000

 

isida alt  Leaching Nanobots

damage/health  per second beam is on enemy/teammate +200

amount of energy 2,000

max/min damage/health -50%

rotation speed -30%

 

cost 70,000

Edited April 27, 2019 by TheReaperLeviathan

[Ax3r1500 1]

Alteration For isida > Isida can add Ammo But isida ammo Fastly go out.  (Sorry For bad english)

[Maf 32,300]

Alteration For isida > Isida can add Ammo But isida ammo Fastly go out.  (Sorry For bad english)

Topic merged

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Alteration For isida > Isida can add Ammo But isida ammo Fastly go out.  (Sorry For bad english)

There is currently an alteration that has the specific effects you are suggesting. The name of it is called "Nanomass Reactor". 

 

The alteration increases your energy consumption for attacking and healing by 50% but if you destroy an enemy when you attack, your ammo bar will be restored completely. 

 

 

If you're suggesting the idea of the Isida giving his/her allies ammo, then I do not think that will be implemented into the game. 

[Literate 24]

I just waned to say in simple words, there is no need for addition and removal of Alternation as we dont know that the effects of what we got now in the game. So developers much have a preview version where u can see the change/effect of alternation on ur turrent. They can show those effect for all turrent in 10sec per 1 alternation, so it will make easy to decide which is best for what combo and ur playing style. As there are some alter which look goods but when u use it, it dosnt fit ur playing style. So there must be a video of 10 sec where u can show tankers what willl this Alter add and remove, it will be easy to understand and will help new tankers to make there choice.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Literate

[terrierist1967 34]

Hi Mods/Admin.

 

Please would you consider the following?

 

I purchased the berserk module for Ricochet today and to say I am underwhelmed by it is an understatement.

 

The damage dealt is hardly berserk and for 200000 Crystals I would have expected something far more radical.

 

I appreciate there is the power up function after killing an enemy, but this is very difficult to achieve.

 

My ideas 1) rename the module to something that isn't berserk. It is far from this

2) give the alteration either faster reload/projectile speed

3) give the alteration a combination of plasma torch and minus field - but to a lesser degree, i.e. combine them but with less power.

 

I hope you will consider this as the more expensive alterations do not seem to be giving reasonable value for money.

 

Thanks

[wolverine848 13,097]

Hi Mods/Admin.

 

Please would you consider the following?

 

I purchased the berserk module for Ricochet today and to say I am underwhelmed by it is an understatement.

 

The damage dealt is hardly berserk and for 200000 Crystals I would have expected something far more radical.

 

 

 

I appreciate there is the power up function after killing an enemy, but this is very difficult to achieve.

 

My ideas 1) rename the module to something that isn't berserk. It is far from this

2) give the alteration either faster reload/projectile speed

3) give the alteration a combination of plasma torch and minus field - but to a lesser degree, i.e. combine them but with less power.

 

I hope you will consider this as the more expensive alterations do not seem to be giving reasonable value for money.

 

Thanks

 

 

The alteration costs 400k crystals?  :o

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

The alteration costs 400k crystals?  :o

No, but the stock price is 200k and even at 100k (which is how much it costs today), I don't think it's worth it. Ricochet portection is to common to even consider using that alteration. Remember when the amount of energy restored after a kill was 25%? Imagine if they had kept it like that. No one would actively use that. 

 

If the enemies don't have protection against Ricochet, then it is good to use it, although watch out for the turrets that one-shot since using this alteration penalises you when your kill gets stolen. A range increase or some other buff in another parameter would be nice to reflect its high price. For being one of the most expensive alterations, it really isn't useful in many high-rank situations. 

 

[spolier] The damage dealt is hardly berserk and for 200000 Crystals I would have expected something far more radical.

 

I appreciate there is the power up function after killing an enemy, but this is very difficult to achieve.

 

My ideas 1) rename the module to something that isn't berserk. It is far from this

2) give the alteration either faster reload/projectile speed

3) give the alteration a combination of plasma torch and minus field - but to a lesser degree, i.e. combine them but with less power.

 

I hope you will consider this as the more expensive alterations do not seem to be giving reasonable value for money.

 

Thanks

 

1)  A renaming of the alteration is not impossible since they renamed a set of alterations when the latest batch of alterations came out in October. 

 

2)  Another pro for the alterations is a wise decision that should be made to increase its current effectiveness. I was thinking maybe increase the Ricochet's radius from 1 metre to 3 metres which should make it less likely to nearly miss a target. 

 

3) I don't exactly see how combining those two alterations would make sense. One increases projectile speed while the other decreases it. For M4, Plasma Torch decreases the projectile speed to 33 metres per second. For Minus-Field Stabilisation, it increases it to 200 metres per second. 

 

Combining them would result in the projectile speed being faster than Stock Ricochet's projectile speed but then you went on to say that it should be weaker than that. So you're basically back to Stock Ricochet's projectile speed. 

 

For the reloading time, it would work out to have a faster shot reload but that would result in your energy being depleted faster. That can be a good thing for surprise ambushes. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

No, but the stock price is 200k and even at 100k (which is how much it costs today), I don't think it's worth it. Ricochet portection is to common to even consider using that alteration. Remember when the amount of energy restored after a kill was 25%? Imagine if they had kept it like that. No one would actively use that. 

 

If the enemies don't have protection against Ricochet, then it is good to use it, although watch out for the turrets that one-shot since using this alteration penalises you when your kill gets stolen. A range increase or some other buff in another parameter would be nice to reflect its high price. For being one of the most expensive alterations, it really isn't useful in many high-rank situations.

I was asking because there is/was a 50% sale.  So... who spends 200k when they can spend 100k?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I was asking because there is/was a 50% sale.  So... who spends 200k when they can spend 100k?

If he did do that, then he probably thought the sale already happened. But I think the likelier scenario here is that he was just saying that the alteration being 200k (when there are no discounts) is too high for the under-efficiency he is achieving.