category Ideas for Augments!

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

Just now, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

TL;DR: Yes, but the problem isn't heat immunity it is the way incendiary band works with it. If that gets changed, the augment will once more become alright to deal with. making these augments would fundamentally change the way turrets have to be used in some cases. With Firebird and Freeze this isn't a problem because your strategy is not likely to change depending on whether or not your enemy uses certain augments. In any case, with Firebird you should be going for Incendiary mix regardless, while with Freeze the effect isn't particularly strong to begin with. As for the default versions being weakened, I'd say you could just get a weaker incendiary mix and a weaker corrosive mix as the stock version and then it wouldn't be weak anymore.

The issue with adding some of those is that their effect would also have to transcend just the turret, or it's basically turret immunity (which makes no sense). In the case of a turret wsuch as Firebird, you're still able to deal damage regularly. Take Thunder for example. With an augment such as Splash immunity, you can (with relative peace of mind) take on Thunder, Striker, Twins, Magnum and Gauss and not ever worry about splash damage scratching you. With something like Shell immunity, that would also have to extend over to Thunder and Smoky (in effect, a god mode on module). That's what Splash immunity implies. For the sake of argument, let's say that they function exactly as you specify.

Nanobot resistance and pellet resistance are basically 50% Hammer and 50% Isida modules. Plasma splash immunity would do literally nothing. The only Ricochet players I see are the ones who use viking, never turn their turret and cannot hit something 2 metres away, so that won't change anything. While we don't have critical hit immunity, we do have the new Armadillo module which gives 50% protection. Splash damage immunity for Thunder would change the way it is played, so you'd likely have to aim directly (which is a large majority of shots anyways). Immunity to striker's salvo means you'd have to use Striker only in arcade shot mode, and the same applies to Gauss. As for Magnum,  I doubt it would matter much anyways because most hits are splash damage. Lastly, with scope immunity, you'd have to use Shaft in arcade mode.

The problem with these augments is that they fundamentally alter the way a turret has to be used. For example, Thunder would wind up being a direct hit turret when it is intended to be used to inflict splash damage, and turrets such as Striker, Gauss and Shaft would have to be used in a fundamentally different manner. As go Firebird and Freeze, the plan for using either of these turrets is essentially the same regardless of whether or not the enemy is using Heat/cold immunity. Go up to them and attack them. That's basically it. Back in the day, circle strafing was a thing, but these days circle strafing with Freeze doesn't do much because your target still shoots at you, while for Firebird it wasn't that important to begin with. With Firebird, the simple solution is to use incendiary mix which you should be either using/saving up to buy if you're a Firebird main anyways because it's by far and away the most deadly augment. As for Freeze, the ability to freeze targets is seldom used as it seems to be intended (to defend), and offensively freezing enemies isn't that useful. Thus it doesn't really matter. In the case of Freeze, it's not that you lose any additional damage either. Yes, the freezing effect is lost, however offensively it never really matters that much, and Freeze is rarely used defensively.

Now of course, we could also have augments that make these difficulties possible to work around (such as an augment for Gauss which lets you shoot only in arcade mode but increases damage) but it would still mean that your turret gets altered in a fundamental way (you cannot use a turret intended for sniping to snipe enemies and must resort to using it like any old turret). Thus, it would make the whole game immensely more complicated.

 

 

[antillis 138]

32 minutes ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

TL;DR: Yes, but the problem isn't heat immunity it is the way incendiary band works with it. If that gets changed, the augment will once more become alright to deal with. making these augments would fundamentally change the way turrets have to be used in some cases. With Firebird and Freeze this isn't a problem because your strategy is not likely to change depending on whether or not your enemy uses certain augments. In any case, with Firebird you should be going for Incendiary mix regardless, while with Freeze the effect isn't particularly strong to begin wtih.

The issue with adding some of those is that their effect would also have to transcend just the turret, or it's basically turret immunity (which makes no sense). In the case of a turret wsuch as Firebird, you're still able to deal damage regularly. Take Thunder for example. With an augment such as Splash immunity, you can (with relative peace of mind) take on Thunder, Striker, Twins, Magnum and Gauss and not ever worry about splash damage scratching you. With something like Shell immunity, that would also have to extend over to Thunder and Smoky (in effect, a god mode on module). That's what Splash immunity implies. For the sake of argument, let's say that they function exactly as you specify.

Nanobot resistance and pellet resistance are basically 50% Hammer and 50% Isida modules. Plasma splash immunity would do literally nothing. The only Ricochet players I see are the ones who use viking, never turn their turret and cannot hit something 2 metres away, so that won't change anything. While we don't have critical hit immunity, we do have the new Armadillo module which gives 50% protection. Splash damage immunity for Thunder would change the way it is played, so you'd likely have to aim directly (which is a large majority of shots anyways). Immunity to striker's salvo means you'd have to use Striker only in arcade shot mode, and the same applies to Gauss. As for Magnum,  I doubt it would matter much anyways because most hits are splash damage. Lastly, with scope immunity, you'd have to use Shaft in arcade mode.

The problem with these augments is that they fundamentally alter the way a turret has to be used. For example, Thunder would wind up being a direct hit turret when it is intended to be used to inflict splash damage, and turrets such as Striker, Gauss and Shaft would have to be used in a fundamentally different manner. As go Firebird and Freeze, the plan for using either of these turrets is essentially the same regardless of whether or not the enemy is using Heat/cold immunity. Go up to them and attack them. That's basically it. Back in the day, circle strafing was a thing, but these days circle strafing with Freeze doesn't do much because your target still shoots at you, while for Firebird it wasn't that important to begin with. With Firebird, the simple solution is to use incendiary mix which you should be either using/saving up to buy if you're a Firebird main anyways because it's by far and away the most deadly augment. As for Freeze, the ability to freeze targets is seldom used as it seems to be intended (to defend), and offensively freezing enemies isn't that useful. Thus it doesn't really matter. In the case of Freeze, it's not that you lose any additional damage either. Yes, the freezing effect is lost, however offensively it never really matters that much, and Freeze is rarely used defensively.

Now of course, we could also have augments that make these difficulties possible to work around (such as an augment for Gauss which lets you shoot only in arcade mode but increases damage) but it would still mean that your turret gets altered in a fundamental way (you cannot use a turret intended for sniping to snipe enemies and must resort to using it like any old turret). Thus, it would make the whole game immensely more complicated.

 

In your opinion why are all these augments, ap nonsense in the game to start with.

They have without doubt made the game (for me at least) unplayable.

There is no more fun in a game that has lost it's way with all these ott weapons, not to mention the insane amount of crystals needed to upgrade equipment, just sky high crazy if you ask me.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, Unleash said:

I dont think both alts are useless in first place.

IF incendiary band caused the user to be more susceptible to damage from all turrets then yes, it would become useless.

There's also no logic to apply to your suggestion.  Why should it take more damage ... "because" would be a poor answer.

 

I actually agree with you that IB should not work when HI is equipped.  This also makes no sense.

For IB to work, at best you should be able to equip Heat Resistance, which will mitigate self-damage but still allow IB to work since the tank is actually overheating.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

A while ago I suggested that instead of applying afterburn to enemy tanks, Incendiary Band should apply whatever negative status effects the Vulcan user is under the effect of. For example, if the Vulcan is on fire, IB would apply afterburn to targets. If the Vulcan is under AP, then IB would apply AP to targets. And so on, for every status effect.

Equipping a hull immunity would prevent an IB player from applying the status effect that that immunity protects against, but would still allow for applying other ones. So IB + HI would not apply afterburn to targets, but could apply freezing, AP, or EMP if the user was frozen, AP-ed, or EMP-ed. While this would make IB a fairly situational augment in the current meta, I think it could become more useful in the future when more status effect augments and status effects will likely be added.

Edited April 12, 2021 by ThirdOnion

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, ThirdOnion said:

I think it could become more useful in the future when more status effect augments and status effects will likely be added.

 ... ...  ... ... 

[alkyng 3,080]

2 hours ago, ThirdOnion said:

A while ago I suggested that instead of applying afterburn to enemy tanks, Incendiary Band should apply whatever negative status effects the Vulcan user is under the effect of. For example, if the Vulcan is on fire, IB would apply afterburn to targets. If the Vulcan is under AP, then IB would apply AP to targets. And so on, for every status effect.

Equipping a hull immunity would prevent an IB player from applying the status effect that that immunity protects against, but would still allow for applying other ones. So IB + HI would not apply afterburn to targets, but could apply freezing, AP, or EMP if the user was frozen, AP-ed, or EMP-ed. While this would make IB a fairly situational augment in the current meta, I think it could become more useful in the future when more status effect augments and status effects will likely be added.

I think the positive status effects are coming in the way, like the supercharge.. So IB would apply them?

Kidding, but this wont work most of the time.. It's just an OP Augment and if the developers really want the solution they will come like what they did with many others (Hornet in example).. One of the logical solution to nerf the augment is making the fire come with the critical shots. Though this will nerf the augment in general and will affect even its non-HI users.. But umm most of the IB are using HI.

Btw, I see the only valid solutions is to make a one of them not working. Which are also not logical.. Umm again I think you suggestion is the best solution to be honest.

[TWICE 798]

On 4/11/2021 at 6:11 PM, JustBlackWolf said:

The only way to nerf the combo would be: if your tank isn't on fire, incendiary band won't proc, simple as that.

Totally agree!  Simple and easy.  It is also the fundamental idea of IB: Ignites only when self-heating

IB should not work with HI in the first place since the Vulcan does not get self-heating.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

One of the logical solution to nerf the augment is making the fire come with the critical shots.

I think this is a great idea. Projectile speed penalty can be reduced or removed to compensate. HI users would benefit, if anything, since there will be no need to overheat.

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

6 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

I actually agree with you that IB should not work when HI is equipped.  This also makes no sense.

For IB to work, at best you should be able to equip Heat Resistance, which will mitigate self-damage but still allow IB to work since the tank is actually overheating.

That's not enough. Make it so that you can't be healed by an allied Isida.

I am being lenient here. Normally, I would have done that and made it so that both Defender and Crisis cannot be used to increase your survivability.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 minute ago, Tidebreaker said:

That's not enough. Make it so that you can't be healed by an allied Isida.

I am being lenient here. Normally, I would have done that and made it so that both Defender and Crisis cannot be used to increase your survivability.

Isida gets no score for healing that self-damaging Vulcan.  Yeah you might have a few that do it anyway, but for the most part I doubt it would be prevalent.

Dont see how you can ban specific drones.  HI is only "banned" in that it only makes sense to not work.

HR... Vulcan WILL take significant damage if they don't pause regularly and cool down.

But I do like the idea where the IB augment just adds fire to critical.

[Spy 14,687]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:45 PM, artc said:

 

Topic merged.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

11 hours ago, antillis said:

In your opinion why are all these augments, ap nonsense in the game to start with.

They have without doubt made the game (for me at least) unplayable.

There is no more fun in a game that has lost it's way with all these ott weapons, not to mention the insane amount of crystals needed to upgrade equipment, just sky high crazy if you ask me.

I don't know as I'm not a developer. if I were to guess, I'd say it helps generate revenue. Honestly, some of the augments (such as Smoky EMP) are pretty balanced. It's things like EMP salvo which really throw balance out the window.

[Ethiaa 135]

Nah, I think IB needs a buff. With all the extra heat immunity around these days it needs its projectile speed increasing

I posted a lengthy rant against the IB/HI combo when it became available. However, I have used it plenty since, not least because it lets me do some of the short range turret missions as IB kills count like firebird kills.

As I've said elsewhere, HI is getting very common but not so much that it isn't still a very effective way to rack up kills in some modes. I think the suggested change to only proc when HR at most is equipped and not HI makes sense.

Unfortunately, gradual change to assess the impact of something doesn't seem to be the preferred way to do things around here. As such I expect an extra hull augment slot to become available for purchase only via tankoins so everyone can equip HI as well as something else, causing more problems to solve this one while also trying to make more money.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Ethiaa

[Blutaar 1,904]

Heat-immunity does what it's name suggests: it grants you immunity to heat. How could you ever nerf that..?

[antillis 138]

10 hours ago, TWICE said:

Totally agree!  Simple and easy.  It is also the fundamental idea of IB: Ignites only when self-heating

IB should not work with HI in the first place since the Vulcan does not get self-heating.

IB  was brought out to inflict heat damage to enemy tanks.

HI was brought out (at a high cost/cash) to counteract the self damage from IB.

HI has taken the place of the 50% fire protection module, but unlike the module which only slowed down the heat damage, HI gives total immunity.

Seems to me that anything of worth in the game (battles) is based solely on money.

Looks like they bring out new powerful stuff for money only, then they counter it with more new stuff, again, money only.

So pleased i'm not caught up in this vicious cycle of ott,nerf,ott,nerf, etc. Feel for those players that are, because this cycle will never end.  

 

[E_polypterus 2,374]

8 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

Heat-immunity does what it's name suggests: it grants you immunity to heat. How could you ever nerf that..?

Reducing hull speed, turret damage, or anything like that in balance to the extremely powerful status the augment gives already or... remove it.

Definitely not leave it untouched (tho that is what’d happen most probably ;—;)

[Mr.Designer 161]

9 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

Heat-immunity does what it's name suggests: it grants you immunity to heat. How could you ever nerf that..?

Main (or even only) problem with Heat Immunity is that, it let Vulcan's Incendiary band all time shooting and igniting targets without taking any damage, also this augment's disadvantage is "Ignites only when self-heating", so here comes simple but effective solution - No self-heating (result of using Heat Immunity) = no igniting the targets.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Mr.Designer

[Blutaar 1,904]

1 hour ago, E_polypterus said:

Reducing hull speed, turret damage, or anything like that in balance to the extremely powerful status the augment gives already or... remove it.

Definitely not leave it untouched (tho that is what’d happen most probably ;—;)

with the amount of status-effects  removing immunities is a really bad thought, unless you also want to remove status-effects altogether but to what extent is that any feasible you think?

[Blutaar 1,904]

35 minutes ago, Mr.Designer said:

Main (or even only) problem with Heat Immunity is that, it let Vulcan's Incendiary band all time shooting and igniting targets without taking any damage, also this augment's disadvantage is "Ignites only when self-heating", so here comes simple but effective solution - No self-heating (result of using Heat Immunity) = no igniting the targets.

a certain combination of equipment is considered an exploit and so the entire hull-augment should be reworked instead of tackling the mechanic itself

everyone knows that IBHI should not exist, apart from it being overpowered it shouldn't even be able to exist theoretically. A reasonable solution would be to eliminate burn-infliction if heat-immunity is equipped; for heat-resistance the turret would inflict burn-damage at a slower pace

[mjmj5558 2,346]

10 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

Heat-immunity does what it's name suggests: it grants you immunity to heat. How could you ever nerf that..?

Don't nerf heat immunity...change the way it interacts with IB: no self heating, no heat on the enemies either.

[wolverine848 13,097]

25 minutes ago, BloodPressure said:

with the amount of status-effects  removing immunities is a really bad thought, unless you also want to remove status-effects altogether but to what extent is that any feasible you think?

YES!

And not very...

[wolverine848 13,097]

21 minutes ago, BloodPressure said:

everyone knows that IBHI should not exist, apart from it being overpowered it shouldn't even be able to exist theoretically. A reasonable solution would be to eliminate burn-infliction if heat-immunity is equipped; for heat-resistance the turret would inflict burn-damage at a slower pace

I think HR should allow Vulcan to do same damage as current.  There's nothing that says HOW MUCH you have to heat up to deliver the damage.  Damage is not dependent on how hot your own tank is.  I think mitigating self-damage (but still taking self damage) is enough.  After all, that's how it worked when IB first came out, before HI was introduced and fire module was neutered.

[Blutaar 1,904]

13 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I think HR should allow Vulcan to do same damage as current.  There's nothing that says HOW MUCH you have to heat up to deliver the damage.  Damage is not dependent on how hot your own tank is.  I think mitigating self-damage (but still taking self damage) is enough.  After all, that's how it worked when IB first came out, before HI was introduced and fire module was neutered.

If interaction between incendiary band and heat immunity is being changed, then heat resistance should be reworked accordingly

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 minutes ago, BloodPressure said:

If interaction between incendiary band and heat immunity is being changed, then heat resistance should be reworked accordingly

Not sure what you mean.

[alkyng 3,080]

Guys I remember back in day I was exaggerating here about how Vulcan IB was OP and even more OP than E Gauss. Time crossed.. I felt it wasn't that much OP compared to some Augments and also because there aren't that much players agree with me, and they don't consider it as OP as I think.  I felt it's hard to change my opinion especially when I remember how my health was depleting in less than 2 seconds. I was something right honestly

But now I realized that the Augment in low ranks is way more stronger than it's in high ranks.. Because the 300 dps in low rank is a crucial and deadly. With not that much supplies for low rankers or Drones.. And I wasn't know how to interact with this Augment I wasn't know that just moving from my place can be a deadly thing for the Vulcan user.

So I think one of the obvious things, Vulcan IB is OP.. But it can be a deadly OP in the low ranks.