category Ideas for Augments!

[thunderhunter123 741]

The effect Heat Immunity gives is "immunity" for any burning effects from weapons. So we cannot change up the Heat Immunity Augment.

Maybe for Vulcan, however, we can give its Incendiary band Augment another con, so it balances out for everyone.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

TL;DR: Yes, but the problem isn't heat immunity it is the way incendiary band works with it. If that gets changed, the augment will once more become alright to deal with. making these augments would fundamentally change the way turrets have to be used in some cases. 

That's the thing....
These "augments" were originally designed as "Alterations".

They were supposed to change the way how the turret works, but keep it in the game's overall balance.
That way, players can essentially "try out new playing styles" with their favorite turrets, without having to buy a brand new turret that they don't like or aren't used to yet. And if they don't like the new modification, they can simply just revert back to the default version of the turret.

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

With Firebird and Freeze this isn't a problem because your strategy is not likely to change depending on whether or not your enemy uses certain augments. In any case, with Firebird you should be going for Incendiary mix regardless, while with Freeze the effect isn't particularly strong to begin wtih.

Actually with Firebird, it greatly changes your strategy.

With Afterburn, you can light enemies on fire, than move on to the next enemy because the afterburn should do the damage for you.

But without Afterburn, you are forced to use all your turret's raw strength and whatever damage and ammo it has just to kill an enemy. Additionally, if the enemy moves out of range, there is no afterburn to continue damaging them, thus you are forced to try to keep up with the enemy or find cover and avoid them shooting you.

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

With an augment such as Splash immunity, you can (with relative peace of mind) take on Thunder, Striker, Twins, Magnum and Gauss and not ever worry about splash damage scratching you.

Actually, my idea of a "Splash Immunity" would only affect Thunder. Otherwise, you'd be getting way too much value out of one hull augment. If you want, you can call it "Thunder Immunity".

Basically one separate hull augment to counter each turret's special ability....unless their special ability isn't too "special" or it can't be used on enemies (Like Isida's healing).

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Nanobot resistance and pellet resistance are basically 50% Hammer and 50% Isida modules.

Yes, because they really don't have any special effects when attacking enemies. So I had to compromise and give them hull augments that countered the only thing they had - direct damage. (Also, Heat Immunity actually blocks 45% of Mk8 Firebird's damage, due to it having up to 7500 damage output and 3000 of it comes simply from the afterburn)

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Plasma splash immunity would do literally nothing.

Same goes for Cold Immunity. You block the freezing effect yet the enemy freeze still does FULL damage to ya. Unlike Heat Immunity which blocks so much of Firebird's damage output via the afterburn, Cold Immunity only functions as a deterrent to defending Freezes, as you will see you said below.....

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

The only Ricochet players I see are the ones who use viking, never turn their turret and cannot hit something 2 metres away, so that won't change anything.

I know, but since Heat Immunity and Cold Immunity are direct counters to "unique" aspects of Firebird and Freeze, I thought Bounce immunity would protect against Ricochet's semi-unique feature of bouncing projectiles.

That being said, since so many turrets use splash damage nowadays, Thunder and Twins don't really doesn't have too many options for immunities, as if you take away the reload and range differences, a Thunder and Twins basically have the similar attributes.

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

While we don't have critical hit immunity, we do have the new Armadillo module which gives 50% protection.

Honestly it should've been a hull augment called "Critical Resistance", granting 50% resistance against critical hits.

And I'm also not a fan of all turrets stealing Smoky's unique feature. I don't like Hull Augments, but I would much prefer a Hull Augment for a special effect, rather than a whole Protection Module. What's next? The Dragon Module? Protects 50% damage from burning effects?
 

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

The problem with these augments is that they fundamentally alter the way a turret has to be used. For example, Thunder would wind up being a direct hit turret when it is intended to be used to inflict splash damage, and turrets such as Striker, Gauss and Shaft would have to be used in a fundamentally different manner.

Isn't that what "Alterations" are for? 
(Just FYI, half of the turrets' so-called "Augments" aren't upgrades at all. They're entire modifications that change the way the turret....is...well....being used)

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

As go Firebird and Freeze, the plan for using either of these turrets is essentially the same regardless of whether or not the enemy is using Heat/cold immunity. Go up to them and attack them. That's basically it. Back in the day, circle strafing was a thing, but these days circle strafing with Freeze doesn't do much because your target still shoots at you, while for Firebird it wasn't that important to begin with. With Firebird, the simple solution is to use incendiary mix which you should be either using/saving up to buy if you're a Firebird main anyways because it's by far and away the most deadly augment. As for Freeze, the ability to freeze targets is seldom used as it seems to be intended (to defend), and offensively freezing enemies isn't that useful. Thus it doesn't really matter. In the case of Freeze, it's not that you lose any additional damage either. Yes, the freezing effect is lost, however offensively it never really matters that much, and Freeze is rarely used defensively.

Yes but Firebird lacks the base DPS to actually destroy enemies and compete against Freezes and the abomination that is Isida's 1150 DPS today.

I know the Incendiary Mix is a thing....but the other thing is.....

Firebird is a flamethrower. For 9 years, people have associated it with the burning effect. Not everyone wants to use a fire-less Firebird, like me for instance. I'd rather get Twins and benefit from the extra range to be honest. The devs should stop making it so that buying Incendiary Mix is mandatory if you want your Firebird to be "good", at least for MM battles.
 

 

On 4/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Now of course, we could also have augments that make these difficulties possible to work around (such as an augment for Gauss which lets you shoot only in arcade mode but increases damage) but it would still mean that your turret gets altered in a fundamental way (you cannot use a turret intended for sniping to snipe enemies and must resort to using it like any old turret). Thus, it would make the whole game immensely more complicated.

Well, "Altering" turrets was a thing that lasted for four years - from 2016 till 2020 (then it took a pause in 2020 but luckily it came back for Smoky's alterations and Hammer's Blunderbuss this year) and it honestly worked fine to me.

It helped add "New" turrets to the game, without the devs having to work so hard to actually make "actual new turrets" for the game. 

if the game gets too complicated, just add rank restrictions to the Augments/Alterations, so that players will slowly learn about them as they play, rather than having all of them shoved in their face at once from the very beginning.



 

[E_polypterus 2,374]

11 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

with the amount of status-effects  removing immunities is a really bad thought, unless you also want to remove status-effects altogether but to what extent is that any feasible you think?

Not remove all status effects ofc , just the immunities at least. They’re the most OP at least. Cuz Firebird freeze etc, they’re not unique anymore and HI/IB is ridiculous to even exist ;-;

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

5 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

That's the thing....
These "augments" were originally designed as "Alterations".

They were supposed to change the way how the turret works, but keep it in the game's overall balance.
That way, players can essentially "try out new playing styles" with their favorite turrets, without having to buy a brand new turret that they don't like or aren't used to yet. And if they don't like the new modification, they can simply just revert back to the default version of the turret.

Actually with Firebird, it greatly changes your strategy.

With Afterburn, you can light enemies on fire, than move on to the next enemy because the afterburn should do the damage for you.

But without Afterburn, you are forced to use all your turret's raw strength and whatever damage and ammo it has just to kill an enemy. Additionally, if the enemy moves out of range, there is no afterburn to continue damaging them, thus you are forced to try to keep up with the enemy or find cover and avoid them shooting you.

Actually, my idea of a "Splash Immunity" would only affect Thunder. Otherwise, you'd be getting way too much value out of one hull augment. If you want, you can call it "Thunder Immunity".

Basically one separate hull augment to counter each turret's special ability....unless their special ability isn't too "special" or it can't be used on enemies (Like Isida's healing).

Yes, because they really don't have any special effects when attacking enemies. So I had to compromise and give them hull augments that countered the only thing they had - direct damage. (Also, Heat Immunity actually blocks 45% of Mk8 Firebird's damage, due to it having up to 7500 damage output and 3000 of it comes simply from the afterburn)

Same goes for Cold Immunity. You block the freezing effect yet the enemy freeze still does FULL damage to ya. Unlike Heat Immunity which blocks so much of Firebird's damage output via the afterburn, Cold Immunity only functions as a deterrent to defending Freezes, as you will see you said below.....

I know, but since Heat Immunity and Cold Immunity are direct counters to "unique" aspects of Firebird and Freeze, I thought Bounce immunity would protect against Ricochet's semi-unique feature of bouncing projectiles.

That being said, since so many turrets use splash damage nowadays, Thunder and Twins don't really doesn't have too many options for immunities, as if you take away the reload and range differences, a Thunder and Twins basically have the similar attributes.

Honestly it should've been a hull augment called "Critical Resistance", granting 50% resistance against critical hits.

And I'm also not a fan of all turrets stealing Smoky's unique feature. I don't like Hull Augments, but I would much prefer a Hull Augment for a special effect, rather than a whole Protection Module. What's next? The Dragon Module? Protects 50% damage from burning effects?
 

Isn't that what "Alterations" are for? 
(Just FYI, half of the turrets' so-called "Augments" aren't upgrades at all. They're entire modifications that change the way the turret....is...well....being used)

Yes but Firebird lacks the base DPS to actually destroy enemies and compete against Freezes and the abomination that is Isida's 1150 DPS today.

I know the Incendiary Mix is a thing....but the other thing is.....

Firebird is a flamethrower. For 9 years, people have associated it with the burning effect. Not everyone wants to use a fire-less Firebird, like me for instance. I'd rather get Twins and benefit from the extra range to be honest. The devs should stop making it so that buying Incendiary Mix is mandatory if you want your Firebird to be "good", at least for MM battles.
 

 

Well, "Altering" turrets was a thing that lasted for four years - from 2016 till 2020 (then it took a pause in 2020 but luckily it came back for Smoky's alterations and Hammer's Blunderbuss this year) and it honestly worked fine to me.

It helped add "New" turrets to the game, without the devs having to work so hard to actually make "actual new turrets" for the game. 

if the game gets too complicated, just add rank restrictions to the Augments/Alterations, so that players will slowly learn about them as they play, rather than having all of them shoved in their face at once from the very beginning.



 

I concur, but when you used an alteration in the past, it was a change you  wanted, not one that was imposed on you.

I don't typically use Firebird, but the strategy of hit and run doesn't seem very effective on paper. Wouldn't it be better to continue and finish off the target instead of perhaps leaving them at the mercy of the effect so that they may use a repair kit/get healed? In any case, you do use Firebird so I'll take your word for it. 

Well I don't think splash immunity (or thunder immunity) would/should be implemented in that way. Heat immunity for example doesn't just stop Firebird's afterburn, it also stops things such as Hooper's ignition, Incendiary band and dragon breath from lighting you up. I don't see why we should get splash immunity which doesn't protect against all forms of splash (which is currently how all augments work. Stun immunity protects against any form of getting stunned, etc.

I mean that if for example your enemies are using the augment that prevents shaft's scoped shots from dealing damage to you, you would have to resort to fighting in only arcade shots. Or in the case of Striker and Gauss, the salvo would be made useless without any real way of making up for it (for example, Firebird has incendiary mix which compensates for removal of afterburn. Such is not the case for Striker or Gauss).

Well I get that you want to ignite enemies, but at the end of the day if the regular augments for Firebird aren't useful, what's the point of sticking to them and not using the best augment (Incendiary mix) which will allow you to straight up ignore armour? Whether or not we want it, there will always be a best augment for every turret. Now since augments tend to be an improvement over stock in most cases (other than say subcaliber rounds for thunder), it's safe to assume that one of the purchasable augments will be the best for any turret at any given time. 

[Blutaar 1,904]

5 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

Not remove all status effects ofc , just the immunities at least. They’re the most OP at least. Cuz Firebird freeze etc, they’re not unique anymore and HI/IB is ridiculous to even exist ;-;

And you think that with the current diversity in status-inflicting turrets/augments/overdrives removing immunities will make everything better

There are currently 5 status-effects with possibly more to come. If making the game even more unplayable then getting rid of immunities is the way to go

[Blutaar 1,904]

16 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Not sure what you mean.

Exactly what I said is what I mean. If incendiary band is affected by heat-immunity then such intervention should also be applied for heat-resistance. E.g. decreasing rate of heating

[E_polypterus 2,374]

2 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

And you think that with the current diversity in status-inflicting turrets/augments/overdrives removing immunities will make everything better

Yes

 

2 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

There are currently 5 status-effects with possibly more to come. If making the game even more unplayable then getting rid of immunities is the way to go

The lease there are, the better, besides immunities are the most OP aren’t they?

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, BloodPressure said:

Exactly what I said is what I mean. If incendiary band is affected by heat-immunity then such intervention should also be applied for heat-resistance. E.g. decreasing rate of heating

Does it not already do that?  Isn't that what the augment is for?  Both defender and attacker...

[Blutaar 1,904]

9 minutes ago, E_polypterus said:

Yes

 

The lease there are, the better, besides immunities are the most OP aren’t they?

Good luck defending against compact fuels, shock freeze, emp gauss, smoky and railgun augments, heat and ap augments, hunter stun+emp, detonation jump and scout radar then

[Blutaar 1,904]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

Does it not already do that?  Isn't that what the augment is for?  Both defender and attacker...

with that I refer to burning enemies when using incendiary band and heat resistance, heating will be applied to the defending enemy more slowly than when the attacking enemy has no heat resistance at all

[wolverine848 13,097]

Just now, BloodPressure said:

with that I refer to burning enemies when using incendiary band and heat resistance, heating will be applied to the defending enemy more slowly than when the attacking enemy has no heat resistance at all

Why would heat be applied to enemy more slowly when attacker has no heat resistance?

IMO heat damage applied to target should be dependent only on targets protections.

Equipping HR will allow attacker to use IB normally, but the attacker will only be able to reduce self-damage instead of ignoring it.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

26 minutes ago, BloodPressure said:

Good luck defending against compact fuels, shock freeze, emp gauss, smoky and railgun augments, heat and ap augments, hunter stun+emp, detonation jump and scout radar then

At least I can buy them for crystals ingame. Immunities are not for crystals so only extremely lucky players or buyers can get them. So for players without immunity, it’s still unfair. Besides most of those augments had at least some cons, immunities don’t have any.

[Blutaar 1,904]

35 minutes ago, E_polypterus said:

At least I can buy them for crystals ingame. Immunities are not for crystals so only extremely lucky players or buyers can get them. So for players without immunity, it’s still unfair. Besides most of those augments had at least some cons, immunities don’t have any.

containers and challenges offer plenty of opportunities to get status-immunities. I am neither a lucky player nor am I a casual buyer, none of my immunities are from containers I bought myself

[pocrettttt 277]

 

 

The smoker's changes are relatively weak compared to others, cryo rounds freeze the target, but the effect doesn't even last 3 seconds, along with the fact that you need to shoot several times to cause a critical hit, as I believe the smoker's critical chance it's not really as the wiki description shows. In addition to the fact that the smoking velocity of the shot is VERY SLOW, considering that it is a turret with no splash damage, a single-target turret, which the shot takes to reach the target in medium battles (most mm maps are at least less than 400 meters), with many constructions (houses, buildings) and leveling of ramps impairing the accuracy of the target.

Therefore, all changes to the smoky effect's rounds should have:

Advantages:

Projectile speed increased by at least 150%

The probability of critical hit increased to 75% (Fixed, not changeable by any MK levels)

Disadvantages:

Critical damage reduced by 85%

Normal damage reduced by 15%

Increased  the cooldown by 25%

About this, as the purpose of the changes is to apply effects, we leave the critical damage aside, in order to have a better view of what the change really should do, since there is a very specific change which is the autocannon, focused on causing hits critics of great damage.

 

 

[Blutaar 1,904]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

Why would heat be applied to enemy more slowly when attacker has no heat resistance?

IMO heat damage applied to target should be dependent only on targets protections.

Equipping HR will allow attacker to use IB normally, but the attacker will only be able to reduce self-damage instead of ignoring it.

I said slower than no heat resistance, not when. Also, I think it makes sense for heat damage to be dependant on the user's hull augment; when heat-immunity prevents your tank from burning then IB should not be able to function. Similar principle should be applied to heat resistance, when the burning process of your tank is slower then the opponent should get burned less faster

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

If the Smoky Augments aren't good enough, you might as well use Default Smoky :)

Either that, or nerf the augments of the other turrets :)

[E_polypterus 2,374]

1 hour ago, BloodPressure said:

none of my immunities are from containers I bought myself

so you must have got them from containers you got from challenges, missions etc maybe. then thats lucky : ) because not everyone has received immunities from containers even upto now.

 

[pocrettttt 277]

@Tanker-Arthur 

17 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

If the Smoky Augments aren't good enough, you might as well use Default Smoky :)

Either that, or nerf the augments of the other turrets :)

What do you think I created this topic for? The smoky augments should be focused in cause status effect more times. However, it is very difficult to cause a critical hit, especially in smaller ranks, where the augment becomes useless, because the presence of the effect doesn't even exist. It is also difficult to hit the shot, as the projectile is considerably slow, in addition to the fact that
it can only hit 1 target at a time.

While the railgun added a buff that leaves the effect augment fixed at a 50% critical chance in all levels(AND MORE TARGEDS CAN BE HIT) In addition to the shot being instantaneous :(

*Edit for remove the  scroolbar

Edited April 14, 2021 by pocrettttt

[alkyng 3,080]

I honestly believe that no one care about the OP Augments (AP / EMP Augments), so balancing them or not isn't in many players cares. All what we know is EMP Gauss is the most OP.. you have to use it.

But about your suggestion ..! ? is this logical or even reasonable to implement? Smoky have a very quick reload, 1.40 s. And you want the critical chance to be 75%..! not logical at all

[pocrettttt 277]

2 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

I honestly believe that no one care about the OP Augments (AP / EMP Augments), so balancing them or not isn't in many players cares. All what we know is EMP Gauss is the most OP.. you have to use it.

But about your suggestion ..! ? is this logical or even reasonable to implement? Smoky have a very quick reload, 1.40 s. And you want the critical chance to be 75%..! not logical at all

That is why in the disadvantages I increased the cooldown, and the critical damage considerably decreased

@asem.harbi 

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, BloodPressure said:

I said slower than no heat resistance, not when. Also, I think it makes sense for heat damage to be dependant on the user's hull augment; when heat-immunity prevents your tank from burning then IB should not be able to function. Similar principle should be applied to heat resistance, when the burning process of your tank is slower then the opponent should get burned less faster

Overheating is overheating.  IF HR makes your tank slower to overheat, then you will not do burning damage until you overheat.

Once you start to overheat the fire damage should be applied.  I don't see any value in controlling the amount of damage dished out based on how much the attacker is overheating.

[Frylock 1,617]

EMP SMOKIES EVERYWHERE!! welp this is what EMP immunity is for. XD Though they are annoying.

Spoiler

On the serious note I think the smoky augments are fine as it is. no need to buff the augments

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by MysticBlood

[wolverine848 13,097]

11 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

EMP SMOKIES EVERYWHERE!! welp this is what EMP immunity is for. XD Though they are annoying.

  Reveal hidden contents

On the serious note I think the smoky augments are fine as it is. no need to buff the augments

 

Too early to say if any of the augments need a tweak.

BUT - I really do think the stock needs a tweak.  The velocity is a bit slow and I still find the (vertical) auto-aim to be terrible.  I miss way more shots than I used.

Edited April 14, 2021 by wolverine848

[SporkZilla 1,775]

I think Assault Rounds should have a sub-critical hit that defeats Dolphin modules, but without the extra damage and maximum range that you get from a stock / other augment critical hit

But I'm still using Assault Rounds nearly all the time because the increased velocity still outweighs all of its disadvantages for me

Edited April 14, 2021 by SporkZilla

[Poppy 422]

2 hours ago, pocrettttt said:

as I believe the smoker's critical chance it's not really as the wiki description shows.

You feel thay way because smoky doesn't have an initial 50% chance, you have to land a couple of shots to achieve that 50% and never miss a shot.

To get the most of smoky's critical you need a medium or heavy hull and stick to defense.