How does Smoky's critical hit % accumulation now work?

[TheCongoSpider 8,971]

Since the Smoky conversion, we have had no explanation of how this works and that is abysmal. Even going off of Sorted Ammunition's parameter changes on the Wiki, it is still a mystery to me.

 

What does "chance step of special damage" refer to? What does "maximum critical chance" refer to? I presume the Wiki Editors may know something but I will ask here. 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, TheCongoSpider said:

What does "maximum critical chance" refer to?

I may not be right....

But every time you shoot an enemy with Smoky, if you don't get a critical hit, than the next shot will have an increased chance of being a critical hit.

And thus the "maximum critical chance" is the maximum chance you can get after not firing off a critical hit for some time.

So basically, since Smoky's max critical chance is 0.50, I'm assuming that means 50%....

Which means if you shoot an enemy and you don't get a critical hit, than after that shot, your chance of your next shot being a critical hit will go up....as opposed to the default 20.2% at MK8 Smoky.

And it'll keep going up as long as you don't get critical hits, until the chance rate maxes at 50%. At that point, if you still don't get critical hits, than your Smoky will have a critical chance of 50%, instead of 20.2%.

And when you do get a critical hit, your critical chance would reset back to 20.2%.
 

[TheCongoSpider 8,971]

4 minutes ago, krish123_super said:

after every 3 shots 4th shot will be critical shot of its/her/his max damage 

I know what Sorted Ammunition does in practice.  I want to know the theory behind it. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,971]

1 hour ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

 

Something to note: 

1 hour ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

So basically, since Smoky's max critical chance is 0.50, I'm assuming that means 50%....

Which means if you shoot an enemy and you don't get a critical hit, than after that shot, your chance of your next shot being a critical hit will go up....as opposed to the default 20.2% at MK8 Smoky.

Wiki has not been updated with the correct numbers for the critical hit chance parameter. If you'd like to know, the new critical hit chance is 22.7% for MK7+ and not 20.2% like it was before. 

 

1 hour ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

And it'll keep going up as long as you don't get critical hits, until the chance rate maxes at 50%. At that point, if you still don't get critical hits, than your Smoky will have a critical chance of 50%, instead of 20.2%.

 

2 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

And when you do get a critical hit, your critical chance would reset back to 20.2%.

I find the first quote above both easy and difficult to believe. Firstly, the minimal critical hit chance, which is what you're referring to in the second quote, is -50% for all modifications of Smoky now. So far from extensive play with MK7+ Smoky, the luckiest it can get is Crit, normal, Crit. Even if the maximum chance for the critical was carried over, the shot after the critical would have exactly 0% chance to crit. 

 

However, playing with Autocannon (which is Smoky's critical hit rate sped up), it is evident that many periods you get lucky, but there is always an interval where the number of normal shots between two crits is huge. Your theory on the maximum critical chance is plausible and would explain this phenomenon. The biggest hurdle here is understanding the numbers for the Sorted Ammunition augment. This augment was clearly fine-tuned for the new accumulation of the critical hits, most likely affecting all modifications the same way since they dared state it in the description that every 4th shot is a critical and every rank (and consequently, every modification) can potentially get it. 

It would need to be incremented in such a way that the 3rd shot has either a negative chance or a 0% chance to crit, while the 4th shot instantly jumps to 100%. For that, we'd need to know exactly what the "chance step of special damage" parameter does since that also gets increased when equipping the augment. There are too many conflicting ideas in the midst of a lack of knowledge of the topic. My best attempts at attaching numbers to Sorted Ammunition resulted in either my 3rd shot having a large enough positive critical chance that a crit could happen on the 3rd shot, or the 4th shot having a <100% chance to crit, which goes against what the augment says it does and actually does.

 

I appreciate your effort to explain. 

 

[cool12345 123]

All I know is that the first five shots register Zero for damage to another tank.  This would be the first five shots of a brand new battle.  Which to me is very stupid!  

[Spy 14,914]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:52 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

 

Did you get the answer you were looking for?

[TheCongoSpider 8,971]

5 hours ago, Spy said:

Did you get the answer you were looking for?

Not yet. :(

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Maybe ask in Vault 87?

[cool12345 123]

I have been playing with Smokey for the last 5 years. It is probably the weakest tank with regards to kills .  It needs a major upgrade.  I keep using it because it is a classic tank as opposed to the "Flying Monkeys" which completely unbalance the game.  I win points with strategy not overwhelming firepower.  If you want to unfairly dominate the game then open your wallet and buy a "Flying Monkey".

[kydapoot 570]

Hello @TheCongoSpider! Wiki Editor candidate here. Here's an explanation:

 

EDIT: Hey, random person reading this later on! This explanation has some mistakes, as discussed below. Please see the wiki page for the full, correct explanation.

 

1. Smoky begins with a negative critical chance. This means you will never get a critical on the first shot, or on any shot where the chance is negative.
2. Every time you hit an enemy with a regular shot, the chance of the next shot being critical increases by the "chance step of special damage"  parameter that you mentioned.
3. Once you get a critical, the chance is reset to negative, and you need to hit a couple more shots to make it positive (and thus possible to hit a critical) again.

 

Maximum critical chance is the frequency you could get criticals if you were lucky enough to get a critical as soon as the chance was positive. So, if you have a maximum critical chance of 33%, that means you can hit a critical at most once every 3 shots (meaning the first 2 are negative or 0 chance).

Minimum critical chance is the frequency you could get criticals if you were unlucky enough to only get a critical once the chance had accumulated to 100%. So, a minimum critical chance of 10% means that you will never go 10 hits without a critical.

 

Smoky's sorted ammunition cleverly takes advantage of these mechanics by starting at -200% and increasing by 100% each shot like so:

1. First shot is -200% (no crit)
2. Second shot is -100% (no crit)
3. Third shot is 0% (no crit)
4. Fourth shot is 100% (critical) and resets the chance to -200% for the next shot.

 

Let me know if I can make anything clearer! I'll be adding this info to Smoky's page on the wiki when I have some time later.

 

Edit: There are some inconsistencies with the meaning of maximum and minimum critical chance - the upgrades pages of the wiki are listing values the way I explained them above, but the augment box for smoky refers to the shot-by-shot chances. It's a bit ambiguous, so I'll try and work out a better way of describing it when I add the above explanation to the associated wiki pages.

Edited February 14, 2021 by kydapoot

[TheCongoSpider 8,971]

30 minutes ago, kydapoot said:

Maximum critical chance is the frequency you could get criticals if you were lucky enough to get a critical as soon as the chance was positive. So, if you have a maximum critical chance of 33%, that means you can hit a critical at most once every 3 shots (meaning the first 2 are negative or 0 chance).

Minimum critical chance is the frequency you could get criticals if you were unlucky enough to only get a critical once the chance had accumulated to 100%. So, a minimum critical chance of 10% means that you will never go 10 hits without a critical.

These I do not understand. As far as I know, the minimal critical chance is the critical % chance Smoky drops to when immediately as it obtains a critical. 

Every modification of Smoky has the same maximum critical chance, yet Mk1 and Mk7+ have vastly different critical hit rates. So the explanation of maximum critical chance does not pan out unfortunately.

 

Back to minimal chance, going off of your explanation, what would a minimal chance of -50% translate to? I recorded a video of me shooting a player with Stock Smoky and Autocannon. During the Autocannon segment, I went a full 11 normal shots before I received another critical hit. Meanwhile almost every other time it was between 2-4 normal shots. How would this explain that? To me it seems like the maximum critical chance is just that, the maximum chance available for Smoky to achieve, so when you reach that number (which is 50%), Smoky's critical hit is a coin toss. That's how I understand the maximum critical chance. 

 

50 minutes ago, kydapoot said:

Smoky's sorted ammunition cleverly takes advantage of these mechanics by starting at -200% and increasing by 100% each shot like so:

1. First shot is -200% (no crit)
2. Second shot is -100% (no crit)
3. Third shot is 0% (no crit)
4. Fourth shot is 100% (critical) and resets the chance to -200% for the next shot.

With this explanation, am I to believe that on the Augments' Wiki page, you guys meant to put this? 

 

Max critical chance: =100% 
Critical chance step: =100% 
Initial critical chance: =200% 
Min critical chance: =200% 

 

I replaced the + and - signs with = signs. I was under the impression that the minimal and initial critical chances were tripled, going from -50% to -150%, and that the maximum critical chance and the chance step were being doubled, from 50% to 100% and 40 to 80 respectively. The maximum chance being set to 100 would explain the coin toss explanation I mentioned above for Stock. 

[kydapoot 570]

6 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

As far as I know, the minimal critical chance is the critical % chance Smoky drops to when immediately as it obtains a critical. 

Correct, this is one of the meanings of minimal critical chance, though it would be more clear to call it the "initial critical chance."

6 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Every modification of Smoky has the same maximum critical chance

Whoops! You're right here - I just rechecked the parameters, and the max critical chance is 50% for all modifications, not 100%.

6 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

yet Mk1 and Mk7+ have vastly different critical hit rates. So the explanation of maximum critical chance does not pan out unfortunately.

This is because the critical step increases significantly each modification. So, higher modifications get into positive chance sooner, and the chance grows faster with each shot.

6 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Back to minimal chance, going off of your explanation, what would a minimal chance of -50% translate to? I recorded a video of me shooting a player with Stock Smoky and Autocannon. During the Autocannon segment, I went a full 11 normal shots before I received another critical hit. Meanwhile almost every other time it was between 2-4 normal shots. How would this explain that? To me it seems like the maximum critical chance is just that, the maximum chance available for Smoky to achieve, so when you reach that number (which is 50%), Smoky's critical hit is a coin toss. That's how I understand the maximum critical chance. 

Precisely, that was my mistake - you could go 11 shots because that particular time, the luck would have it that you fired several shots at 50% critical chance without getting a critical.

6 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I replaced the + and - signs with = signs. I was under the impression that the minimal and initial critical chances were tripled, going from -50% to -150%

Using equals signs is a much better way of putting it, the minus and plus was an oversight in our rush to get the info into the wiki. The values for sorted ammunition are being set, not scaled.

 

Thank you for the question and the additional information - that's very helpful, and I'll clarify the wiki page on this ASAP.

Edited February 14, 2021 by kydapoot

[TheCongoSpider 8,971]

Thank you for your help! @kydapoot

 

On 2/10/2021 at 3:51 AM, Spy said:

Did you get the answer you were looking for?

I have. You can close the topic now.