update Critical damage

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

13 hours ago, wild001 said:

5% from drone, that is 4200 health.

Nope, it's 5% damage reduction.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, agtdestructor said:

That is a lie, many times it is being damage of 400 - 500 to tanks that do not have any protection, I do not know what causes this, if a bug or it was intended, but railgun is not OP, they only made it playable.

Maybe you want to send a note to WIKI editor if that is wrong?

OR... you are fighting vs tanks with DA (since about 90% of tanks use it all the time)...

[EmeraldCat 562]

1 hour ago, agtdestructor said:

That is a lie, many times it is being damage of 400 - 500 to tanks that do not have any protection, I do not know what causes this, if a bug or it was intended, but railgun is not OP, they only made it playable.

Railgun(Scout) Damage Test

If you click this link, I have made a video of Railgun(Scout)'s damage.

Everything in the video is visually explained, there was a bit of lag at the end, not sure why, but whatever, so...

My first account, "diamondcreeper159," with his Railgun and Scout Augment. His Railgun is Mk7 5/20, and it deals 820 damage. Since garage stats do not change when equipping an Augment, the damage I showed in Garage is accurate. In the garage, it said my critical damage was 1459. If I subtract that by 30%, the damage would be 1021, which is the damage I projected onto "Emeraldcat345" my second account. So that is accurate. As you could see, Emeraldcat345 did not have any Modules to protect against Railgun, no Defender Drone either. 

So, I was hoping for diamondcreeper159 to get a regular shot and not a critical on the first few tries, but I got so unlucky that my first 5 shots were critical hits. That's right. 5 shots were critical shots. Imagine I were playing in a standard battle. Anyways, eventually, near the end, I deal 820 damage.

So, I've proven my point, there is no bug, there was no mistake with the Wiki, I'm sure if you used double damage, you could bypass their double armor, aaaaaaaand Railgun is still op.

[EternalGlory 62]

f railgun is very op, i`m with 50% module againts rail + defender drone almost maxed and this thing kill me in 1-2 shots, pf

Edited March 29, 2021 by EternalGlory

[cosmic666 1,055]

2 hours ago, EternalGlory said:

f railgun is very op, i`m with 50% module againts rail + defender drone almost maxed and this thing kill me in 1-2 shots, pf

Of course it's OP, devs will make their cash by the fools buying ultras to get the crit protection.

Same old, same old.

[wolverine848 13,097]

6 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

but I got so unlucky that my first 5 shots were critical hits. That's right. 5 shots were critical shots.

Holy Crap!  

[Frylock 1,617]

One of the probable reasons  why Railgun is strong right now is probably to discourage falcon usage and also make it playable against 50% moduals. So I think that's what the devs are thinking. Im pretty sure thell nerf it when there is less falcon modual users.

Edited March 30, 2021 by MysticBlood

[lssimo 1,559]

2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

One of the probable reasons  why Railgun is strong right now is probably to discourage falcon usage and also make it playable against 50% moduals. So I think that's what the devs are thinking. Im pretty sure thell nerf it when there is less falcon modual users.

I'm bad at logical thinking, so I need your help.

Are you saying that devs made Railgun stronger so we stop using Falcon protection?

Are you saying that we'll stop using Falcon because Railgun is stronger now?

Are you saying that because Railgun is stronger we'll stop using Falcon?

[DarkPredator 212]

Check this out

[Poppy 422]

52 minutes ago, lssimo said:

I'm bad at logical thinking, so I need your help.

Are you saying that devs made Railgun stronger so we stop using Falcon protection?

Are you saying that we'll stop using Falcon because Railgun is stronger now?

Are you saying that because Railgun is stronger we'll stop using Falcon?

I think he means since rail has a high critical chance it usually neglects the module so we're better using another module in that place.

Edited March 30, 2021 by beachhouse

[lssimo 1,559]

16 minutes ago, beachhouse said:

I think he means since rail has a high critical chance it usually neglects the module so we're better using another module in that place.

I see.

So Tanki is basically dividing the damages of Railgun into Regular (weak) Damage and Critical (strong) Damage?! Mmmaybe I should pay more attention and play more.

But it's still hard to decide to not use Falcon since there are many Railguns, even if the proteccion has been more than halved, I think, unless they made other changes somewhere that I'm ignorant of.

I don't know what's worse, going to Tanki Wiki and learning the hard way or going to Matchmaking and learning the other hard way.

How about you devs give us 1 Ultra Plus Container for watching the V-Log? I need an incentive to get informed. Are Ultra Plus Containers implemented already?

 

[cosmic666 1,055]

5 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

One of the probable reasons  why Railgun is strong right now is probably to discourage falcon usage and also make it playable against 50% moduals. So I think that's what the devs are thinking. Im pretty sure thell nerf it when there is less falcon modual users.

Wrong. The devs were thinking $$$$$ when they came up with this idea.

The devs are so transparent a child can see through their methods for bringing in every single one of their OP updates.

Of course there are certain players who don't even have the smarts of your average 5 yr old when posting on the forum.

Wonder who they might be........

[Frylock 1,617]

34 minutes ago, cosmic666 said:

Wrong. The devs were thinking $$$$$ when they came up with this idea.

The devs are so transparent a child can see through their methods for bringing in every single one of their OP updates.

Of course there are certain players who don't even have the smarts of your average 5 yr old when posting on the forum.

Wonder who they might be........

I said they probally did this to discourage it by making rail stronger and make falcon feel useless so players can end up using other protection moduals. Again this is to probally make people think that it is useless to have the protection and to equip something else. Im pretty sure thell nerf it eventually.

Edited March 30, 2021 by MysticBlood

[cosmic666 1,055]

1 hour ago, MysticBlood said:

I said they probally did this to discourage it by making rail stronger and make falcon feel useless so players can end up using other protection moduals. Again this is to probally make people think that it is useless to have the protection and to equip something else. Im pretty sure thell nerf it eventually.

Eventually, maybe couple years like hornet. The devs will only nerf it ( ) when they see a profit in doing so, like introducing the next OP update to compensate for the nerf (if that ever happens.)

The thought process behind EVERYTHING the devs do is centred around $$$$, EVERYTHING.

These are the FACTS. 

TO is now truly BROKE.

BALANCE and at least attempting to think about the majority of players, was and has been for a very long time, wholly abandoned, thrown on the TO scrapheap, locked away never to resurface again. 

I post FACTS, not blithering nonsense. I post what i see in battle. I post home truths that some take offence to (tuff.) I'm not some muddled headed buffon that sees no wrong in whatever the devs do, like some certain players that post on here. 

The intelligent players that post on here should be acknowledged, yes even some of the mods, and acted on by the devs to improve TO for the benefit of the majority (not the minority.)

The devs imo never take on board refreshing, well thought out ideas by those players who actually no what they are doing. (battle scenarios, not stupid skins, shot effects.) 

As long as the hardcore P2W chavs keep spending, the devs will carry on with their OP updates and ignore all aspects of balance.

Try listing every update over the last 2 years and see if it has affected balance in a positive way.

Good luck with that 1. I give you ZERO % chance of coming up with anything that actually benefited players (IN BATTLE) that did not cost a dime. Skins, effects, graphics, etc, do not count. Getting gear for cry does not count. I'm after something, anything the devs ever did to improve game balance (IN BATTLE) where they did not ask for any cash to effect said changes, are hid it behind a smokescreen. I'm talking absolute freebie that enhanced the balance for the majority of players (IN BATTLE) simply because it was the right thing to do by the players.

Like i said, GOOD LUCK.

Edited March 30, 2021 by cosmic666
spelling

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:04 AM, At_Shin said:

Alright guys - Looks like I was just about right regarding the critical chance nerf of railgun EMP. You don't get hit with the EMP round every other round. The chances are one in 4 or 5 shots.

(Thank you wiki editors for updating us with the new values).

It is good that at least the Railgun augments have a reduced crit chance, however honestly 10 seconds EMP or 5 seconds stun is pretty crazy. I would prefer to go up against a more regular, but shorter EMP - EMP Gauss for instance at least at 5 seconds you can run away, and before long use a double armor and repair kit to survive. A 10 second EMP will mean you'll be sitting around doing nothing waiting for it to wear off for a long time, or if you are out in the open it is guaranteed death. 5 second stun is basically guaranteed death also, that will easily allow for a second shot. But at least they have made some attempt to balance it.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

For everyone asking for a Railgun nerf - think carefully about what you are asking for. Why is Railgun currently OP? Because Critical damage was made to ignore protections modules (other than the new Armadillo module), Railgun has a high crit chance and none of us (except a few select big buyers, so far) have access to any protection against critical damage.

So the problem is caused by Critical damage ignoring standard protections, and no-one having access to the new protection against them. What needs to change to fix this is either Critical damage needs to NOT ignore protections (as it should not) OR we all get access to Armadillo through the Garage, at the very least. And perhaps Railgun could get a lower critical chance - but then it needs to have more non-crit damage to compensate at the very least.

Railgun was perfectly fine, until all this semi-AP critical damage came along. If Railgun is nerfed BECAUSE of this ridicilous critical damage update, then it will become very underpowered against big-buyers who are using Armadillo in the near future. Not to mention that if just Railgun is nerfed, when other turrets get updated and get a higher critical damage chance (as they undoubtedly will) we will have the same problem over again. Nerfs MUST be targeted at critical damage overall, not just Railgun itself - giving everyone Armadillo counts as a nerf to critical damage.

Don't JUST think about the situation now - the full effects of changes like this take some time to be felt, because people need more time to acquire the new items. Take the introduction of the Heat Immunity hull augment for example - just after it was released, WAS Firebird useless? No - in fact Firebird was OP for a while as everyone lost their protection against Firebird's burning damage, and almost no-one had Heat Immunity. But what about a few months later (and indeed now) when tons of people have Heat Immunity? NOW, Firebird is one of the weakest turrets at Legend (if not the weakest), other than Incendiary Mix augment - as Heat Immunity is very common.

A similar thing will happen with Armadillo - once more big buyers get maxed out Armadillo, the power of crit-dependant turrets will lessen a lot. If Railgun (and not critical damage) is nerfed in the wrong way, then Railgun players will have big problems dealing with heavy buyers. Nerfs need to be targeted mainly at critical damage itself, not any one turret.

Edited March 30, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[cosmic666 1,055]

12 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Why is Railgun currently OP?

Cash.

Edited March 30, 2021 by At_Shin
Refrain from using all capital letters.

[cosmic666 1,055]

7 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

If Railgun is nerfed BECAUSE of this ridicilous critical damage update, then it will become very underpowered against big-buyers who are using Armadillo in the near future.

Nope, if this happens then expect some other OP cash driven update to compensate for it.

[cosmic666 1,055]

@DestrotankAI9 You make a valid point, if that was how the devs think, it is not.

Everything is cash orientated with the devs, EVERYTHING.

Your post makes complete sense, but as always nothing will happen unless it's to the absolute benefit of the devs.

No nerfs will happen unless the devs can make cash out of it. 

These are the facts. 

[cosmic666 1,055]

4 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

In both the cases, you respawn back with full health and no negative status effects and you get to chose how to fight that railgun augment user.

With more cash than he has.

[DMR 676]

After the critical damage update release, the critical damage deal the same damage as normal damage. Make that critical damage deal more damage than basic damage

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

56 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

I agree, 10 second EMP or 5 second  stun is guaranteed death. Imo, I prefer instant death of my tank more than my tank being stunned for even 1 second or losing ability to use supplies even for just 1 second (because of smart cooldowns between using two supplies) also, 40% Increased critical damage for these augments will most probably kill you anyway and in case you manage to survive, it is certain death because another enemy will probably kill your tank if not the railgun augment user themselves.
 I prefer this current circumstance over the previous one where the augment user could just keep hitting you with the status effect until you died. Now, it's either one of the two possibilities -  you die instantly from their shot, or you survive that shot to live a little longer. In both the cases, you respawn back with full health and no negative status effects and you get to chose how to fight that railgun augment user.

I think it is an incredible leap of logic to claim that an augment is balanced because it offers us a certain death, lol. I think a 10 second EMP (from a turret shot at least) is simply too long - I don't think EMP should be longer than 6 seconds - only a hull overdrive should be able to go up beyond that duration of EMP.  Considering the nature of EMP that it prevents you from using supplies (including repair kits), keeping EMP durations short allows for some counterplay. As for stuns, I think a 3 second stun might be reasonable if it is infrequent - but 5 seconds is just impossible to play against, that is just insane - you can't do literally anything to counter that if you aren't wearing stun immunity, unlike even EMP Gauss in the past where you can run & repair.

So I would be the opposite - I think every turret augment should have some possibility of counterplay that prevents you from dying, I think anything which leads to an absolute guranteed death is bad for gameplay (unless it has a very long reload like Shaft heavy capacitors, of if the targeted player themselves is taking the risk of that with a light hull, and offence orientated drone setup for instance).

Edited March 30, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

37 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

Who ever said this makes them balanced? 

 

1 hour ago, At_Shin said:

I agree, 10 second EMP or 5 second  stun is guaranteed death. Imo, I prefer instant death of my tank more than my tank being stunned for even 1 second or losing ability to use supplies even for just 1 second (because of smart cooldowns between using two supplies) also, 40% Increased critical damage for these augments will most probably kill you anyway and in case you manage to survive, it is certain death because another enemy will probably kill your tank if not the railgun augment user themselves.
 I prefer this current circumstance over the previous one where the augment user could just keep hitting you with the status effect until you died. Now, it's either one of the two possibilities -  you die instantly from their shot, or you survive that shot to live a little longer. In both the cases, you respawn back with full health and no negative status effects and you get to chose how to fight that railgun augment user.

See bold/underlined - well you said that you preferred guaranteed death rather than being hit by repeated status effects which may lead to a prolonged death - implying that augments which result in this are acceptable. I have to disagree, because as long as you are still alive you can at least find some way to counter (for instance with EMP Smoky, you can behind cover and use double armor + repair to counter, and come out after a reasonably short time) - a 5 second stun from the new Stun Railgun or a 10 second EMP on the other hand, is a different story - at the very least the EMP Rail will waste a huge amount of time. There is either no way to counter that without the right hull augment, or you will have to waste a huge amount of time behind cover which is boring gameplay, and will lead to your team losing objectives.
 

Quote

I  just said I preferred them this way. They deal critical hits less and when they do they will probably end up killing you. I find this to be less annoying than an EM Salvo Gauss which kill continuously keep sniping you to keep you supplies switched off. Maybe you think there's a big difference between 3 seconds of stun or 5. Or, that there's a huge difference between 6 Seconds of EMP or 10 seconds. But I do not. Even 1 second of such negative status effect is annoying. Chances are that I will die even after the 6 second EMP or a 5 second EMP and I will probably end up dying even with a 3 second stun or a 5 second stun. What I like is that these augment users now cannot apply these annoying effects to me as often as before - simply because the chances are less and that my chances of dying to their shots is pretty good.

There is no doubt the fact that EM Salvo can continuously reapply the effect is OP - it would probably be better if this was changed to a random chance also, with a bit of splash damage returned (although only single target for the EMP).

There is DEFINITELY a huge difference between a 3/5 second stun or a 5/10 second EMP, because with a 5 second stun the Railgun is literally guaranteed to get another shot before you can get into cover, and it is basically guaranteed that you will die if any other teammates are firing at you, while being able to do nothing at all other than sit there. A 5 second EMP allows you to run away & repair + double armor in a reasonable amount of time, and get back into combat - a 10 second EMP will leave you waiting for so long that it may literally be better to just die & respawn, which is bad game design imo.

Edited March 30, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[cosmic666 1,055]

50 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

nope, I prefer using brains and my OD rather than cash.  I Never actually bought anything tbh.

You think I just sit idly in a CTF match while a hopper is coming to take away the flag and my team is losing? You think I would quit, right? Nope, I try to equip the best combo for that battle which comes to my mind. I will tell you the truth, Even Hoppers have trouble jumping away when you've got a shock freeze and a Hunter with Stun Immunity (got from a previous challenge). Sometimes it works, and I help out my team win. Sometimes my team is too nub to win but I do enjoy destroying those hoppers.

This one time (before this update) I used my Crusader OD while strafing out of cover to kill a stun-railgun user. I still remember that. I could have got stunned but instead I ended up killing him. 

So your brains can prevent the FLYING HACKS, ( with rail) from dominating in battles and capping flags with abject ease.

NO, of course they can't, neither can i, so please stop posting nonsense about 1 offs you might have.

We all take out annoying OP combos from time to time, BUT, these OP combos invariably have the upper hand by a huge margin in all but a very small % of battles.

As always i take the broader picture into consideration, not just some random one off battles where you might actually have a decent battle against these OP FLYING HACKS, are any other OP gimmick the devs bring into the game for the good of their hardcore minority P2W players.

Like i said my posts are factual on what i see play out in every single battle i go into, no exceptions.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I will say one or two positives about this patch (because I have been very negative).

I like the new critical heal for Isida. It's pretty cool when you get a proc and this instantly sends someone to full health, the random extra healing helps make Nanobots gameplay a lot less monotonous. You can output some pretty crazy healing with this if you get lucky, but Isida needed this boost considering how much more damage people take now - it is much harder to keep a target up and you will die much faster when targeted yourself. You have to pay more attention as if you get a critical heal, you then have to jump to healing someone else immediately (unless they are under fire) and with the huge amount of damage people take now with higher healing, Isida gameplay is much more fast paced.

Also, yes the nerf to EMP Gauss is good too (although it was not included in the patch notes, and in fact EMP Gauss is still OP - though it no longer ruins Siege mode destroying entire teams single-handedly). The nerf to standard Gauss however should have been included in the patch notes, and it needs to have at least the splash radius of Thunder to be competitive again compared to Magnum/Rail/Shaft. I hate Tanki's tendancy to do extreme over-nerfs from OP to useless (which leads to hard-to-deny accusations that they are doing it to force people to get new equipment rather than for balance purposes), and that has happened yet again. Doing it undocumented is an even bigger insult to players - on this occasion for those who used Gauss as their main turret.

But overall sadly, the few good things in this patch are totally overshadowed by the fact they have just brought in effectively a new damage type (critical damage), while only providing heavy buyers protection against it. That is just a plain devious way to sell more Ultras, and the results have imbalanced the game hugely for the rest of us. I hope at least, we will all get access to critical damage protection after a while - but if so early access status for buyers should have been made clear, as it with Crusader - which seems to imply they don't intend to do this.

Edited March 30, 2021 by DestrotankAI9