completed Buff Vulcan on Viking's Overdrive

[kydapoot 570]

So, it's pretty common knowledge that Vulcan doesn't do well on Viking's OD - the increase in performance is pretty marginal, and it's a bit disappointing compared to turrets like railgun, magnum, thunder, rico, firebird...most of them, really.

So, some ideas to make it more useful:

• Increase extra damage
  • Currently, I think it doubles damage, or maybe x1.5? It's sometimes hardly enough to tell a difference between OD and regular operation.
• Increase impact force
  • Vulcan's near-constant impact is cool - it would be very interesting to have Viking's OD temporarily turn that effect up to frightening levels
• Increase fire rate
  • This would bring the last two points together rather nicely
• Remove the turret slowdown
  • Allowing full rotation while on OD would allow people to hit more enemies

I'm sure there are other things that could be done as well, but those were what came to my mind.

[Spy 14,904]

Valid

Completed

[TheCongoSpider 8,970]

On 4/4/2021 at 6:11 AM, kydapoot said:

• Increase extra damage
  • Currently, I think it doubles damage, or maybe x1.5? It's sometimes hardly enough to tell a difference between OD and regular operation.

Vulcan is a non-melee turret, and as such, will gain x2.5 damage during a Viking Overdrive (x3.5 with DD). 

 

This was the main problem with Vulcan on Viking when hull-specific Overdrives came in. The majority of the non-melee turrets' damage output during the Overdrive came from their firing rates being increased. Vulcan (in 2019) didn't get a firing rate increased, as it was purely DPS. Back then, the multiplier for non-melee turrets was x2 (x3 with DD). So a Vulcan with Viking's Overdrive in 2019 was essentially Vulcan with DD for 7 seconds. Anyone with Vulcan protection was able to shrug that off very easily, not to.mention having plenty of time to get behind cover before dying, and it only being able to hit one target. 

 

The problem got slightly better, but still bad after the conversion. It has more power at m elee-close range, but now lacks at mid range compared to before the conversion.

I think it would only be fair to Vulcan if its firing rate is increased during the Overdrive. Not the x4 firing rate increase like the other non-melee turrets do, maybe x2, or x3. Maybe performance issues was a reason for them not to give it one after the conversion. That would be a lot of projectiles on the screen. It's already bad enough in large maps with 12+ players on each team.

 

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

Also, I think the cooldown shouldn't be applied if you're using Heat immunity with Incendiary band. It's kind of pointless, and so I just don't use my overdrive when I'm ifirng shots that inflict heating.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

Well - this is the whole point of ODs - some specific turrets/ augments fits well with them, some not. For example, plasma torch on rico doesn't have any fire rate increase either. I suggest you to not use viking when using vulcan instead, it would be pretty much unfair to buff a specific combo, especially because vulcan needs a nerf.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

1 minute ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Also, I think the cooldown shouldn't be applied if you're using Heat immunity with Incendiary band. It's kind of pointless, and so I just don't use my overdrive when I'm ifirng shots that inflict heating.

The thing is, HI with IB shouldn't even work, so the easiest way to solve this is to fix this exploit so it will no longer heat up eneimes if there is no self-heating.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

10 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

The thing is, HI with IB shouldn't even work, so the easiest way to solve this is to fix this exploit so it will no longer heat up eneimes if there is no self-heating.

Well technically speaking, you are heating up, it's just that heat immunity prevents you from receiving any damage. Frankly, IB HI is by far the most bearable OP combo in the game I think since heat resistances are an option of mitigating their damage.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

30 minutes ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Well technically speaking, you are heating up, it's just that heat immunity prevents you from receiving any damage. 

Heating up = taking damage + heat effect on your tank. Heat immunity not just prevents you from taking damage, it's in the name, you become immune to heat, aka you aren't heating up.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

4 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Heating up = taking damage + heat effect on your tank. Heat immunity not just prevents you from taking damage, it's in the name, you become immune to heat, aka you aren't heating up.

That's the other way to look at it. Actually, heating up is defined as the temperature of your tank being above the normal temperature I think (above 0 I believe). 

If that does happen, then a major reason for desiring heat immunity ceases to exist (I grant you, players want the augment to protect themselves from compact tanks and other IB users, but for a lot of people (myself included) a pretty big part of Heat immunity is being able to use it the way it is now).

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Also, I think the cooldown shouldn't be applied if you're using Heat immunity with Incendiary band. It's kind of pointless, and so I just don't use my overdrive when I'm ifirng shots that inflict heating.

Ahh yes, so a nerf to players who don't have Heat Immunity.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

42 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Ahh yes, so a nerf to players who don't have Heat Immunity.

No actually, it only happens if you are using heat immunity. If you're using heat resistance or nothing, then it works as it does right now

36 minutes ago, Unleash said:

Sorry but heat immunity with vulcan incediary band is just broken and shouldnt exist.

Honestly, it's really not that bad. It can certainly be mitigated pretty effectively using just items for crystals (Heat resistance and double armour, the latter youshould be using anyways). The slower velocity for bullets means that if you just keep peek-a-booing the enemy, it's fairly alright to deal with, and at long ranges it's virtually useless because of the same reason. The turret turning speed is slow, so at close range you can easily counter it by circle strafing (even with a turret like say Railgun). Yes, you can fire forever, but really how useful is that? Most of the fire is simply firing because you want to keep the heat buildup.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

That's the other way to look at it. Actually, heating up is defined as the temperature of your tank being above the normal temperature I think (above 0 I believe). 

If that does happen, then a major reason for desiring heat immunity ceases to exist (I grant you, players want the augment to protect themselves from compact tanks and other IB users, but for a lot of people (myself included) a pretty big part of Heat immunity is being able to use it the way it is now).

If you are immune to heat, your tank is not heating up.  There's no other way to look at it.

If you are not heating up, you should not be able to generate the IB effect.

Well you like it now of course because it IS OP.  I have it on my other account and it IS ridiculous.  And no - you are not being honest.  At the very least you are in denial.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

11 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

If you are immune to heat, your tank is not heating up.  There's no other way to look at it.

If you are not heating up, you should not be able to generate the IB effect.

Well you like it now of course because it IS OP.  I have it on my other account and it IS ridiculous.  And no - you are not being honest.  At the very least you are in denial.

Well, I'm not saying that's my argument for it. I'm just saying what I've seen on the forum. I don't even really use IB HI Vulcan actually. I mostly use Viking Thunder. I was speaking from a few months ago when I only had heat resistance, and using it with double armour typically meant that IB HI wasn't really that annoying for me when people were using it. Heat resistance and double armour take the damage from 300 to 75, which isn't that big of a deal, especially if you're playing strategically. Now, of course I understand not everbody can buy/does own heat resistances for their hull of choice, but you still do get the reduction form double armour. That being said, lots of players I see using the combo are people with 9999 GS, and I guess if a player doesn't have the crystals for heat resistance, they likely are in the below 8k GS range (just an estimate, feel free to correct it) but at that point it doesn't really matter that much what the 9999 GS player is using anyways, because they'll beat you regardless. 

What I'm saying is, it's not like the old EMP salvo where the only thing you can do is buy an immunity. I didn't get my first Heat immunity till it was already 2021. Up until then, of course IB HI players were an annoyance, but I usually managed to outplay them, or mitigate a large amount of the damage they were dealing which made it pretty bearable (unless half the team was using IB HI).

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

Just now, Unleash said:

You see, point is that you can fire all matchmaking battle without drawback which should be overheating and slower bullets speed doesnt mean a lot when bullets can still hit you, im not good in explaining such things but i see it in battle all time and it is very op in hands of good player who can turn battle to win by himself alone, just like hopper crisis. I know i shouldnt add hopper crisis here but its example that these 2 things are most op combos right now.

Well yeah, it's not insanely hard but it's MUCH harder to hit a moving target at range. Of course, there are instances where they turn the tide of the match, but one important thing to note in such circumstances is that the team they face isn't very functional. For example, lots of Viking Ricochet players who never turn their turret and refuse to use supplies. Additionally, it's possible that it isn't just the 1 player turning the match around, but that their team works better. Yes, MM has very little coordination between teams, but sometimes you get teams with a dictator who's always helping you with their OD, or a Hunter who doesn't waste their OD on any random player and instead uses it to take down a Titan's dome. There likely exist players who can single handedly turn around the match, but in my experience such situations rarely arise only due to them. It's more often a result of the 1 team playing better/using stronger equipment than the other which leads to it.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

No actually, it only happens if you are using heat immunity. If you're using heat resistance or nothing, then it works as it does right now

No what actually happens is that Viking's overdrive was NEVER meant to utilize Incendiary Band's burning effect.

This is because Incendiary Band only burns enemies whan your Vulcan "runs out of ammo" (which Vulcan never actually does....it actually means when ammo bar is depleted/empty)

 

 

Since Viking's overdrive essentially "REFILLS" Vulcan's ammo, than it means Vulcan will never inflict the burning effect as it's ammo bar will always be full when Viking's overdrive is activated. 
Keep in mind, with Vulcan (and Hammer, Ricochet, Firebird, Freeze, and Isida), Viking's overdrive also refills the ammo clip. Meaning it will deactivate any alterations/augments that depend on the ammo clip being emptied, such as Incendiary Band.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

10 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

No what actually happens is that Viking's overdrive was NEVER meant to utilize Incendiary Band's burning effect.

This is because Incendiary Band only burns enemies whan your Vulcan "runs out of ammo" (which Vulcan never actually does....it actually means when ammo bar is depleted/empty)

 

 

Since Viking's overdrive essentially "REFILLS" Vulcan's ammo, than it means Vulcan will never inflict the burning effect as it's ammo bar will always be full when Viking's overdrive is activated. 
Keep in mind, with Vulcan (and Hammer, Ricochet, Firebird, Freeze, and Isida), Viking's overdrive also refills the ammo clip. Meaning it will deactivate any alterations/augments that depend on the ammo clip being emptied, such as Incendiary Band.

Oh! It seems I misunderstood you, sorry about that. Right you are though. 

[thunderhunter123 741]

Very true.

I agree that Vulcan's Overdrive is not that powerful when used.

Whenever I see Vulcan's OD in battle, aimed at me, I don't feel too frightened by it because I saw how much damage it does.

With Double Armor equipped, I don't lose too much HP.

So making Vulcan's OD better, with your suggestions above, is a good idea.

[SS-class-Hunter 30]

Vulcan users can understand that while using vikings od  the damage dealt is comparatively less to other turrets if we consider damage/sec even if we use boosted damage. this puts vulcan at a good disadvantage. 

Here's a solution: with the doubling of damage the turret's gatling can also be doubled (Same as doubling the current damage inflicted while using viking's od) shooting twice the projectiles as it would normally.

 

 

[Spy 14,904]

1 hour ago, SS-class-Hunter said:

 

Topic merged.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

Totally agreed, it has been weak for far too long. Sometimes when a low GS Vulcan/Viking uses its overdrive  I have not run for cover and simply out-dps'ed them since it is so weak, lol.

[Spy 14,904]

Status updated.

[numericable 2,375]

Your wish has been fullfiled.

[thunderhunter123 741]

Nice, I hope there is a good difference in battle with Vulcan and Viking.

I will try it out!