challenge May Challenge I

[Romantically 282]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Ok - point noted.

And the rest?  I had a LOT more in that post.

Ok

[12334421 0]

אך ניכנסים ???

 

[fghjkl54 1,517]

On 5/8/2021 at 5:04 AM, At_Shin said:

 

tbh i want viking or thunder XT (or prime) from skin container despite i don't use the gun a lot

also i won't buy the pass this challenge because 90% of items are obtained from containers and emp round is too weak

[Akame 4,578]

3 hours ago, fghjkl54 said:

tbh i want viking or thunder XT (or prime) from skin container despite i don't use the gun a lot

also i won't buy the pass this challenge because 90% of items are obtained from containers and emp round is too weak

10 second EMP is weak??? Bro r u good. The only downside is the slight increased warmup time, crit chances stay the same.

Augment strength is not determined by the damage solely, but also by the effects. People complain about 5 second Gauss EMP, here comes a double duration which is virtually impossible to face against u have a lot of cover or emp immunity.

[numericable 2,375]

44 minutes ago, Akame said:

10 second EMP is weak??? Bro r u good. The only downside is the slight increased warmup time, crit chances stay the same.

Augment strength is not determined by the damage solely, but also by the effects. People complain about 5 second Gauss EMP, here comes a double duration which is virtually impossible to face against u have a lot of cover or emp immunity.

Are you sure that the rate of emp is the same? I feel lile it is 20% or something like this.

Edited May 11, 2021 by numericable

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 minutes ago, numericable said:

Are you sure that the rate of emp is the same? I feel lile it is 20% or something like this.

From Patch notes...

"«‎EMP rounds» augment: critical damage is decreased by 30%, shot warmup time is increased by 20%, critical damage chance is set to 50%;"

 

So if it lasts 10 seconds - that's nuts.  mk7 Rail could keep a target without supplies until it dies.

[numericable 2,375]

15 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

From Patch notes...

"«‎EMP rounds» augment: critical damage is decreased by 30%, shot warmup time is increased by 20%, critical damage chance is set to 50%;"

 

So if it lasts 10 seconds - that's nuts.  mk7 Rail could keep a target without supplies until it dies.

I know that in theory critical chance is 50% but pratically i feel like it is something more like 20%, maybe it is just my bad

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

I got my 100 Tankions. I am saving up all my Tankions so that I can buy the fourth slow module protection.

I wish that developers increase that top silver reward to 250 Tankions. The reward is too low nowadays.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, numericable said:

I know that in theory critical chance is 50% but pratically i feel like it is something more like 20%, maybe it is just my bad

Well it's not actually 50%...

It starts off at 50%.  if "fail" then it jumps up 60%, then 70% then 80%... until a critical is achieved.

The WIKI page then is a bit confusing.  It mentions turrets dropping down to "Consecutive critical Chance" which would normally be 10%.  But then that seems to ignore Rail's Initial "50% chance".  I mean... is that initial 50% ONLY applied to first shot in the entire battle?  It's like a wooden-ship that prepared it's cannons before leaving port.  Those shots are always better than any prepped mid-battle.

So my best guess is it falls somewhere between 20% and 50% overall.

With that in mind, 10 seconds is still nuts - since you have to consider it's a team battle, and not only the Rail might be trying to destroy the target.  That one tank is without supplies for 10 seconds regardless of which enemy will target it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

34 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Well it's not actually 50%...

It starts off at 50%.  if "fail" then it jumps up 60%, then 70% then 80%... until a critical is achieved.

The WIKI page then is a bit confusing.  It mentions turrets dropping down to "Consecutive critical Chance" which would normally be 10%.  But then that seems to ignore Rail's Initial "50% chance".  I mean... is that initial 50% ONLY applied to first shot in the entire battle?  It's like a wooden-ship that prepared it's cannons before leaving port.  Those shots are always better than any prepped mid-battle.

So my best guess is it falls somewhere between 20% and 50% overall.

With that in mind, 10 seconds is still nuts - since you have to consider it's a team battle, and not only the Rail might be trying to destroy the target.  That one tank is without supplies for 10 seconds regardless of which enemy will target it.

Initial critical chance - chance of a critical hit on its first shot after spawning. 

 

Consecutive critical chance/minimal critical chance - chance of obtaining a critical hit with the next shot after a previous critical hit. 

 

Maximum critical chance - highest chance possible for a shot to be a critical hit. 

 

 

Railgun starts at 50% chance after spawning. If the shot is a critical hit, the chance for the next shot to be a critical hit (consecutive/minimal critical chance) is reduced to 10%. If the next shot is a critical, it will stay at 10%. If the shot was not a critical, the critical chance increases to 50%. 

In essence, it looks like: Spawn, 50, 10, 50, 10, 50, 10, 50 etc. 

 

For comparison, Smoky's initial chance is -50%. After it gets a critical hit, it's consecutive chance is -50%. 

For Twins, the initial chance is 0%, the maximum chance is 25% and the consecutive chance is 0%. 

For the other turrets, the initial chance is 0%, the maximum chance is 10%, and the consecutive chance is 0%.

Edited May 11, 2021 by TheCongoSpider

[LambSauce 1,884]

3 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

For comparison, Smoky's initial chance is -50%. After it gets a critical hit, it's consecutive chance is -50%. 

Wait, wut?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

2 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

Wait, wut?

That's how modifications of Smoky work, ever since it underwent its projectile conversion in January.

[LambSauce 1,884]

Just now, TheCongoSpider said:

That's how modifications of Smoky work, ever since it underwent its projectile conversion in January.

But how can it have a negative chance for a crit?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Just now, LambSauce said:

But how can it have a negative chance for a crit?

Why not?

 

The initial chance, chance step, minimal chance and maximum chance all work together. 

 

For an Mk7+ Smoky, it has:

 

Initial chance: -50%

 

Chance step: 40%

 

Minimal chance: -50%

 

Maximum chance: 50% 

 

 

For an Mk7+ Smoky, its critical hit scheme looks like:

 

Spawn, -50, -10, +30, +50, +50, +50, +50 etc. Meaning the earliest it can obtain a critical hit after spawning, and subsequent from a previous critical hit, is on its 3rd shot after, which will have a 30%. The highest the chance can go to for Mk7+ Smoky is 50%. 

 

 

 

 

[LambSauce 1,884]

3 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Why not?

 

The initial chance, chance step, minimal chance and maximum chance all work together. 

 

For an Mk7+ Smoky, it has:

 

Initial chance: -50%

 

Chance step: 40%

 

Minimal chance: -50%

 

Maximum chance: 50% 

 

 

For an Mk7+ Smoky, its critical hit scheme looks like:

 

Spawn, -50, -10, +30, +50, +50, +50, +50 etc. Meaning the earliest it can obtain a critical hit after spawning, and subsequent from a previous critical hit, is on its 3rd shot after, which will have a 30%. The highest the chance can go to for Mk7+ Smoky is 50%. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up, but mathematically speaking, a negative probability makes no sense.

[Akame 4,578]

3 hours ago, numericable said:

I know that in theory critical chance is 50% but pratically i feel like it is something more like 20%, maybe it is just my bad

 

29 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Initial critical chance - chance of a critical hit on its first shot after spawning. 

 

Consecutive critical chance/minimal critical chance - chance of obtaining a critical hit with the next shot after a previous critical hit. 

 

Maximum critical chance - highest chance possible for a shot to be a critical hit. 

 

 

Railgun starts at 50% chance after spawning. If the shot is a critical hit, the chance for the next shot to be a critical hit (consecutive/minimal critical chance) is reduced to 10%. If the next shot is a critical, it will stay at 10%. If the shot was not a critical, the critical chance increases to 50%. 

In essence, it looks like: Spawn, 50, 10, 50, 10, 50, 10, 50 etc. 

 

For comparison, Smoky's initial chance is -50%. After it gets a critical hit, it's consecutive chance is -50%. 

For Twins, the initial chance is 0%, the maximum chance is 25% and the consecutive chance is 0%. 

For the other turrets, the initial chance is 0%, the maximum chance is 10%, and the consecutive chance is 0%.

As you see, 50% chance to emp a player for 10 seconds, off spawn, is horrid, if you don't EMP (deal crit to) them in that shot, then don't worry, you next shot will also have a 50% chance until it does crit/deal EMP. You're only penalty is 20% extra warmup time, which is a 0.22s increase, for such an effect, this is hardly much of a penalty. Even more so, if you get a crit every second shot, you can EMP lock players.

I don't know what the dev's drank when they decided to make this give a 10 second EMP. 5 seconds, yeah is hurtful, but players can shake it off. But a 10 second EMP, is horrendous flat. I have seen some in games, faced some too, it ruins a lotta gameplay. At this right, might as well buff even gauss emp too.

Some people may not get the bp, but realistically this augment is terrifyingly strong, 50% chance crit on spawn, 10 second emp, a marginal 0.22s warmup increase along with 30% crit damage reduction, but the crit damage is still greater than regular damage thanks to railguns favoured crit multiplier, and then 10% a shot following a crit to get a back to back crit. BaLaNcE iN a NuTsHeLl.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Akame

[wolverine848 13,097]

44 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Initial critical chance - chance of a critical hit on its first shot after spawning. 

 

Consecutive critical chance/minimal critical chance - chance of obtaining a critical hit with the next shot after a previous critical hit. 

 

Maximum critical chance - highest chance possible for a shot to be a critical hit. 

 

 

Railgun starts at 50% chance after spawning. If the shot is a critical hit, the chance for the next shot to be a critical hit (consecutive/minimal critical chance) is reduced to 10%. If the next shot is a critical, it will stay at 10%. If the shot was not a critical, the critical chance increases to 50%. 

In essence, it looks like: Spawn, 50, 10, 50, 10, 50, 10, 50 etc. 

 

For comparison, Smoky's initial chance is -50%. After it gets a critical hit, it's consecutive chance is -50%. 

For Twins, the initial chance is 0%, the maximum chance is 25% and the consecutive chance is 0%. 

For the other turrets, the initial chance is 0%, the maximum chance is 10%, and the consecutive chance is 0%.

So the WIKI page was misleading - as it mentions "Chance Step" and "Consecutive Chance" both of which are 10%.  It never mentions Rail jumping from 10% to 50%.

Edited May 11, 2021 by wolverine848

[wolverine848 13,097]

13 minutes ago, Akame said:

I don't know what the dev's drank when they decided to make this give a 10 second EMP. 5 seconds, yeah is hurtful, but players can shake it off. But a 10 second EMP, is horrendous flat. I have seen some in games, faced some too, it ruins a lotta gameplay.

It's Rail... need we say more?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

4 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So the WIKI page was misleading - as it mentions "Consecutive critical chance" is what is expected after getting a critical.  It never mentions Rail jumping from 10% to 50%.

Slightly misleading, yes. But you were one quick to jump to the patch notes 

 

3 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

From Patch notes...

"«‎EMP rounds» augment: critical damage is decreased by 30%, shot warmup time is increased by 20%, critical damage chance is set to 50%;"

If you looked at the entire patch note, you'd see that that specific change was listed for Railgun. 

 

 

 

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 minute ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Slightly misleading, yes. But you were one quick to jump to the patch notes 

 

If you looked at the entire patch note, you'd see that that specific change was listed for Railgun. 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah - forgot about that part.  They need to collate the notes together on the WIKI.

So I guess the "real" chance for rail critical is somewhere between 30% and 50%? 

[Akame 4,578]

40 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So the WIKI page was misleading - as it mentions "Chance Step" and "Consecutive Chance" both of which are 10%.  It never mentions Rail jumping from 10% to 50%.

I'm pretty sure chance step is meant to be 40%, since it would raise from 10% to 50%, I shall get someone to look into it.

It is meant to be 40% (100%) chance step, with a cap at 50% for max chance. Someone will eventually sort it out.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Akame

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

1 hour ago, LambSauce said:

Thanks for clearing that up, but mathematically speaking, a negative probability makes no sense.

In practice negative probabilities simply map to a 0% chance. 

4 hours ago, numericable said:

I know that in theory critical chance is 50% but pratically i feel like it is something more like 20%, maybe it is just my bad

38 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So I guess the "real" chance for rail critical is somewhere between 30% and 50%? 

The average critical hit rate for Rail is about 36%.

Edited May 11, 2021 by ThirdOnion

[wild001 1,422]

EMP immu is super important now if you are not titan.

I got emp immu for hopper/crusade/hornet/mammoth, covering light to medium to heavy hull.

 

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

Hurry up folks and finish the challenge.

[fghjkl54 1,517]

our CM has shooted the gun and flashed may challenge II too early (with my respect @Marcus)

@Spy at least change the rewards lists then re-update them again later