event eSports Tanki Fund

[Kvothe 49]

39 minutes ago, natrolite said:

I can assure you this draw was not rigged. Simply because an administrator was there does not, in any form or way, mean there was some behind-the-scenes involvement that took place. I repeat, this was a draw that was orchestrated by a bot. There is no way you can manually be selective of who gets to win and who gets nada. 

Yes, the randomizer was set incorrectly from the start. And btw, just to your statement, that results can't be manipulated, (which i am not saying they are or not) to edit number of times I put someone's name on the list is the easiest thing to do. :) 

[natrolite 1,049]

59 minutes ago, r_SPSE0 said:

Yes, the randomizer was set incorrectly from the start. And btw, just to your statement, that results can't be manipulated, (which i am not saying they are or not) to edit number of times I put someone's name on the list is the easiest thing to do. :) 

If such a violation did indeed occur, you would think they wouldn't broadcast it publicly for all to see.. no?  

[DaringDeer 656]

I personally can't complain by beating the odds of 2 selections for 4 offer purchases, but it doesn't see right that press accounts could participate in the drawing.  What is the point?  They can't do anything with them because they have everything.  Plus, do press accounts have tankoins given to them?  If so, it is doubly wrong.

I do think you could purchase the bundles an unlimited number of times so who knows how many the big winners purchased.  

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I do see the point that press accounts shouldn't be able to participate in future contests, however correct me if I'm wrong - does it matter if press accounts could participate in this draw?

If you add 1 winner of 8000 tankoins to the draw for every 8000 tankoins spent on offers purchased (each costs 1000 tankoins, 8x1000=8000), then all the tankoins press accounts may spend on the special offers are simply recycled. I don't think it would negatively affect the chance of other players to win? Or if I'm wrong, feel free to explain how.

 

2 hours ago, alpha_beast said:

In whole video I am now too much disappointed (yt_immortal_hero_dow) win 28 times yea u are right kids 28 times I counted. 2 player (mr_bhabaka123) wins 21 times wow man wowwwww.tanki you wasted my 1000 extremely or very hardly earn tankoins .today you borke my heart into pieces  I have no words remaining.

This is why you shouldn't gamble - which this offer was, gambling :P . Buy something which gives a sure reward with your tankoins such as a battle pass/special offer, or even save for the 4th module if you are very patient. If you bought 1 offer then you only had a 1 in 8 chance to win, and a 7 in 8 chance to win nothing, and only be left with the 15 ultra containers - taking a big risk for a free player. Learn this lesson and don't gamble in future if you don't want to be disappointed :)

And also as for those who won lots of times, they are big buyers of course who bought many offers - or press accounts with the YT_ before their name - who (I think?) have free tankoins given to them.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Goshik 4]

3 hours ago, Marekos1111 said:

As stated in the rules; the more offers you purchase, the better chance you get. 
 

 

3 hours ago, natrolite said:

I can assure you this draw was not rigged. Simply because an administrator was there does not, in any form or way, mean there was some behind-the-scenes involvement that took place. I repeat, this was a draw that was orchestrated by a bot. There is no way you can manually be selective of who gets to win and who gets nada. 

yes, you are partly right, the draw was organized by a bot and the bots won too -  YT_Immortal_HeRo_DoW  YT_Mr.BaHbKa123 EN_YT_Graphics , EN_YT_AV-Gamers , EN_YT_RoadTO - these are technical accounts which do not belong to real people!!!  

Edited September 29, 2021 by Marekos1111
Format removed

[numericable 2,375]

4 hours ago, Goshik said:

 

yes, you are partly right, the draw was organized by a bot and the bots won too -  YT_Immortal_HeRo_DoW  YT_Mr.BaHbKa123 EN_YT_Graphics , EN_YT_AV-Gamers , EN_YT_RoadTO - these are technical accounts which do not belong to real people!!!  

Yes, they took your tankoins away for tanki technical account for youtuber which has everything in the game... i knew something bad would have happened so i kept safely my 5k tankoins, the chance of losing was bigger than winning anyway 

[M.v.M 13]

Who are the Tankcoin tycoons? Where was the livestream were they were chosen!?

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

8 minutes ago, numericable said:

Yes, they took your tankoins away for tanki technical account for youtuber which has everything in the game... i knew something bad would have happened so i kept safely my 5k tankoins, the chance of losing was bigger than winning anyway 

Well though, as I tried to explain - due to the way the chances to win with the draw worked, I don't think participation from press/Youtuber accounts actually made any difference to the chance of others winning.

Even if the press accounts bought even bought 8 million special offers, then that would add 1 million "winners", and we could still have all the other winners that we have currently. Because every 8000 tankoins (8 offers) from offers bought adds one 8000 tankoin winner to the draw, the tankoins they spent are simply recycled.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[NikmanGT 4,362]

5 minutes ago, M.v.M said:

Who are the Tankcoin tycoons? Where was the livestream were they were chosen!?

You can refer to the livestream here

 

[FLANKER-E 46]

thanks tanki On the integrity of the ballot ,Thanks for everything you do for the players

[Goshik 4]

59 minutes ago, numericable said:

Yes, they took your tankoins away for tanki technical account for youtuber which has everything in the game...

nor did they invest a cent of real money in buying specials !!! Russian forum is outraged! all over the world it is called a fraud! why did the organizers of the event allow it !?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Marekos1111
Format removed

[Niklas 388]

1 minute ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Well though, as I tried to explain - due to the way the chances to win with the draw worked, I don't think participation from press/Youtuber accounts actually made any difference to the chance of others winning.

If the press accounts bought even bought 8 millions special offers, then that would add 1 million "winners", and we could still have all the winners that we had already. Because every 8000 tankoins (8 offers) from offers bought adds one 8000 tankoin winner to the draw, the tankoins they spent are simply recycled.

That's true BUT they get a higher chance of winning by buying more packages as Tanki mentioned earlier. So it does matter if they would count or not.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

22 minutes ago, Niklas said:

That's true BUT they get a higher chance of winning by buying more packages as Tanki mentioned earlier. So it does matter if they would count or not.

If you buy more special offers, then you have a higher chance to win - yes. But we knew this from the moment the special offer was announced, so what are you annoyed about?

My point was that - the Youtuber accounts buying special offers with free tankoins actually doesn't really affect your chances to win - so who really cares. Nothing bad has happened here - the only "bad" thing is that Tanki have encouraged players to gamble on an offer with a 1 in 8 chance to win, and now some players are annoyed that they gambled their tankoins on this and didn't get any back.

I think being annoyed about the participation of Yotuber accounts is simply a faliure to understand the maths. Every 8000 tankoins spent created one new 8000 tankoin winner - so it doesn't matter if 1343 million special offers were bought or only 8 were bought - your chances to win would still be the same.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Niklas 388]

2 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

If you buy more special offers, then you have a higher chance to win - yes. But we knew this from the moment the special offer was announced, so what are you annoyed about?

My point was that - the Youtuber accounts buying special offers with free tankoins actually doesn't really affect your chances to win - so who cares really. Nothing bad has happened here - the only "bad" thing is that Tanki have encouraged players to gamble on an offer with a 1 in 8 chance to win, and now some players are annoyed that they gambled their tankoins on this and didn't get any back.

I think being annoyed about the participation of Yotuber accounts is simply a faliure to understand the maths. Every 8000 tankoins spent created one new 8000 tankoin winner - so it doesn't matter if 1343 million special offers were bought or only 8 were bought - your chances to win would still be the same.

so you think it's fair that dev made accounts win an event which is supposed to give the player base something back? 

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

14 minutes ago, Niklas said:

so you think it's fair that dev made accounts win an event which is supposed to give the player base something back? 

I do agree with you that it is inappropriate that developer made accounts (Youtube accounts) can participate in the giveaway with free tankoins, sure.

But really, the maths behind working out your chances to win is a bit complicated and hard to explain, so I can understand why some players are very annoyed. Depending on the random chance of how many tankoins the developer accounts got back, for the number of tankoins they put in (spent on special offers), it would be possible that they could either result in real players getting MORE tankoins back than they otherwise would have, or LESS. Or there is a very small chance, that it could not affect the number of winners among real players at all. But on average, the outcome of developer accounts buying special offers will result in no change for the probability of real players winning.

But I do agree, that Youtuber accounts should not be able to participate in such special draws in the future, as it isn't really appropriate. But it hasn't really affected the chances for players to win, on this occasion - due the maths of how this giveaway worked.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Goshik 4]

52 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Even if the press accounts bought even bought 8 million special offers, then that would add 1 million "winners", and we could still have all the other winners that we have currently. Because every 8000 tankoins (8 offers) from offers bought adds one 8000 tankoin winner to the draw, the tankoins they spent are simply recycled.

you are counting incorrectly  

the rules for holding competitions were violated (read them) - only the Licensee can be a participant

only SIMPLE players, no bots or technical accounts

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Marekos1111
Format removed

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

3 hours ago, Goshik said:

you are counting incorrectly  

the rules for holding competitions were violated (read them) - only the Licensee can be a participant

only SIMPLE players, no bots or technical accounts

 

Well if the competition rules were actually violated, then you have a good point :) . I haven't read up on the rules, and certainly technical accounts should not be allowed to participate in the future.

But if my maths is wrong, and the probability for players to win tankoins has been negatively affected - then feel free to explain the maths. As far as I'm aware, your chance to win back tankoins was not reduced by Youtube accounts participating.

[Niklas 388]

16 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I do agree with you that it is inappropriate that developer made accounts (Youtube accounts) can participate in the giveaway with free tankoins, sure.

But really, the maths behind working out your chances to win is a bit complicated and hard to explain, so I can understand why some players are very annoyed. Depending on the random chance of how many tankoins the developer accounts got back, for the number of tankoins they put in (spent on special offers), it would be possible that they could either result in real players getting MORE tankoins back than they otherwise would have, or LESS. Or there is a very small chance, that it could not affect the number of winners among real players at all. But on average, the outcome of developer accounts buying special offers will result in no change for the probability of real players winning.

But I do agree, that Youtuber accounts should not be able to participate in such special draws in the future, as it isn't really appropriate. But it hasn't really affected the chances for players to win, on this occasion - due the maths of how this giveaway worked.

I do agree that the math is correct you used. Anyways after I rewatched the list 5 times on .25 speed I did not find my name in the list even though I bought one of the offers twice. So I dunno if they forgot to add all names or just scrolled down waaayyyy to fast.. This is something I want to be more transparent in the future. I hope somebody, maybe even Marcus, reads this. Since it feels a bit weird to not find your name in the list of players who bought the bundles. Anyways as @Goshik said there was violation of event rules, which is bad in my opinion to show YouTubers win hundreds of thousands of tankoins and normal player may not even be included. I hope tanki does it better next time.

[Niklas 388]

3 minutes ago, Goshik said:

 

Yeah i see what you mean. I dunno if those youtubers intended to win any of those tankoins or if it was just a clumsy mistake from Tanki's site of view. 

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

22 minutes ago, Goshik said:

I will quote a clever person from the Russian forum, it's not just mathematics, because economics is much more complicated (c) it turns out that players who bought few containers "on average" became donors of tankoins for those who bought more of them. And a larger percentage of these donor tankoins are taken by the one who bought most of the market for himself. That is, corrupt youtubers who bought themselves a bunch of offers for tankoins

It is the case that if you were one of the "winners" In this contest (and if you got back more than you put in), that effectively other players who bought special offers are the ones who are "giving" you tankoins. But if you got back less than you put in, then effectively you are giving others tankoins.

It is not necessarily the case that players who bought more did better out of this - if you got lucky then you could have bought 1 special offer and got 8000 tankoins back. However, the chances are that you would have got nothing (7 in 8 chance to get nothing). If you were able to buy 8 special offers, then you would have a good chance to get back what you put in - as well as a chance to earn a lot more than you put in or a lot less, so if you were a big buyer here you probably took less of a risk.

Now, the participation of accounts spending free tankoins (Youtuber accounts) does not affect any of this. If you got bought one special offer and got 8000 tankoins back - some of those tankoins could have come from the free tankoins Youtuber accounts spent. And equally, you could have bought one special offer and not won, and "donated" your tankoins to a Youtuber account. The Youtuber accounts affect the probabilities just the same as any other player account buying the special offers does.

But I do agree, the Youtuber accounts - or technical accounts - should not be able to participate in such contests again. But I maintain, that the chance for players to win was not affected by this - unless you can show me some solid maths to prove otherwise - but I am fairly sure the maths shows there was no change in the chance for players.
 

19 minutes ago, Niklas said:

I do agree that the math is correct you used. Anyways after I rewatched the list 5 times on .25 speed I did not find my name in the list even though I bought one of the offers twice. So I dunno if they forgot to add all names or just scrolled down waaayyyy to fast.. This is something I want to be more transparent in the future. I hope somebody, maybe even Marcus, reads this. Since it feels a bit weird to not find your name in the list of players who bought the bundles. Anyways as @Goshik said there was violation of event rules, which is bad in my opinion to show YouTubers win hundreds of thousands of tankoins and normal player may not even be included. I hope tanki does it better next time.

if your name was not on the list at all, then that does indeed seem strange. If there is an issue with the way the winners were worked out itself, then that would be a big problem indeed. I agree better transparency would be good here.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Niklas 388]

3 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

if your name was not on the list at all, then that does indeed seem strange. If there was a problem with the way the winners were worked out itself, then that would be a big problem indeed. I agree better transparency would be good here.

yep there was no way to confirm a 100% that all players where shown in the spreadsheet. you can see at 4:19 in the stream that he selected 10550 players but the big thing is there are 10556 who bought the bundle. This seems pretty strange to me. Even if you slow down the stream to .25 speed you can't see all names so why did they do it this way? why didn't they go slower through the list to confirm that all players who bought the bundle are indeed in the list?

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, Niklas said:

yep there was no way to confirm a 100% that all players where shown in the spreadsheet. you can see at 4:19 in the stream that he selected 10550 players but the big thing is there are 10556 who bought the bundle. This seems pretty strange to me. Even if you slow down the stream to .25 speed you can't see all names so why did they do it this way? why didn't they go slower through the list to confirm that all players who bought the bundle are indeed in the list?

That is interesting, it is a bit strange that indeed 10,550 names were selected, when the website would seem to indicate that 10,556 bundles were purchased - leaving 6 bundle unaccounted for. Perhaps Hazel bought these bundles personally? Who knows. It is only 6 bundles, but maybe some mistake was made - if they wanted to give better transparency they could publish the list of names that the winners were chosen from, as well as the list of winners. Then if anyone does not find their name on there, they can contact customer support.

As for not showing all the names in the live stream, well I suppose they are just assuming that you will trust them to compile the list fairly and accurately. Scrolling slowly through a list of 10,556 names would take a long time, and make for a very boring live stream. They could perhaps publish the list, if players are unhappy.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Spy 14,687]

Congratulations to the giveaway winners!

[Okami 3,041]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that after rolling the first 500 winners, they didn’t take those winners out of the master list and just continued?

It’s entirely possible that someone could have entered only once but won twice because they got lucky enough for the randomizer to pick their name a second time.  

Edited September 30, 2021 by GrayWolf8733

[DaringDeer 656]

Agree with you @GrayWolf8733.  In a normal lottery, selecting winners is an iterative process.  If your entry is pulled for a prize, it is then removed from the lottery for subsequent drawings.  That's not what happened in the stream.  There were 3 selections of 500, 500, and 319.  The winners from the first 500 were not removed from the entry pool before the next drawing.  Further, there is no way to know how they are randomly picking people within each run.  Within each run can the same entry be selected multiple times? 

I think in practice this tends to favor people that have more entries than the people that have a small number.  In a normal lottery as entries are pulled as winners, the remaining entries probability of winning goes up.  That doesn't happen here.

Following is based on assumption that technical accounts get free tankoins.  @DestrotankAI9 is correct that technical accounts purchasing doesn't affect the probabilities before the lottery, but once the lottery is complete, the relevant question though is whether the technical accounts won at a higher rate than 12.5% chance per entry.  If it is higher, then tankoins were taken from the community.  If it is lower, tankoins were added to the community.  With the information available, it's not possible to know.  You need to know how many entries each technical account bought.  My guess is that the technical accounts pulled more out than they contributed.