Let´s discuss Scorpion!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 10/5/2022 at 7:45 AM, cybernite said:

They could have buffed ML HUNTER aug with this Scorpion SWARM; missile pods point upwards and fire away. 

Certainly interesting way to do it but they'd have to add parameters to Striker that are currently not on it. 

On 10/5/2022 at 7:45 AM, cybernite said:

 Cause if you have Striker Ap..etc; ml hunter becomes redundant

That's just how it is. Some status augments use existing augment templates as a springboard, see Tesla, Twins and Ricochet. 

[OUTAMYWAY 48]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:51 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

That's just how it is. Some status augments use existing augment templates as a springboard, see Tesla, Twins and Ricochet. 

Not sure that's very accurate. Tesla may share characteristics with both twins and ricochet, but the play style is still unique. a short-range attack and the ability to hit round corners if you take a few seconds to set it up.

Scorpion is literally just a striker and thunder bolted together, and buffing both to make thunder at least fairly redundant IMO

Edited October 6, 2022 by OUTAMYWAY
spelling

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:03 AM, OUTAMYWAY said:

Not sure that's very accurate. Tesla may share characteristics with both twins and ricochet, but the play style is still unique. a short-range attack and the ability to hit round corners if you take a few seconds to set it up.

Scorpion is literally just a striker and thunder bolted together, and buffing both to make thunder at least fairly redundant IMO

I am specifically referring to some status augments being "existing augment but better". 

 

Exothermic/Endothermic/Stunning Lightning, Armour-Piercing/Superconducting Discharge are all Minus-Field + status attached. (Tesla)

 

Plasma Injector is Staple Plasma + status attached. (Twins)

 

Super Smart Minus-Field, Sizzling Field, Cryo Field, Magnetron and Tectonic Field are all Destabilised Plasma + status attached. (Ricochet)

 

Armour-Piercing Missiles and Stunning Missiles are both Missile Launcher "Hunter" + status attached. (Striker)

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I absolutely hate this turret and it seems to lock onto me even if I am behind a wall.

[ERADICATIONNATION 185]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:11 AM, ghost-guns said:

I absolutely hate this turret and it seems to lock onto me even if I am behind a wall.

Yea that's because it's designed to. An enemy only has to actually see you for a fraction of the lock-on process to target you. You see, Scorpion is the second "special needs" turret in Tanki, essentially a Magnum for people who suck at aiming with it (as if Magnum wasn't cancerous enough already). The other is Gauss, which is just an auto-aiming Shaft for people too challenged to use the scope properly. 

[Illusional 5]

It's a cool turret and has a nice concept. HOWEVER it NEEDS balancing changes. It does way too much damage and the fact that it can lock onto people from across the mad and BEHIND cover is absolutely terrible. How is this supposed to be fair? It makes the game unplayable when I have been playing this game for 4+ years and I have invested all my resources into my favorite turrets which are now powerless against a turret that can do long AND short range while doing insane damage both ways. I love isida but I literally can't get close to enemies using scorpion. 

When literally like 50% of all players are using this turret, it shows how OP it is and it needs a nerf. The fact that I have to change off my favorite turret which is MK7-20 just to have a chance at winning in battles shows how much you guys are forcing us to conform to your ideals. By leaving this OP turret in game which no changes, it's the same as saying "hey ignore your favorite turret, just play this new OP turret instead or else you won't have any chance in battles"

 

NERF IT OR MAKE CHANGES SO THAT IT NO LONGER DOMINATES BATTLES!!!

[sphdz_3153371 41]

Suggested Scorpion Nerfs:

1. Impact force nerf (this should be implemented regardless of any other scorpion suggestions, the capability of a single shot to lift viking clear off the ground is unacceptably overpowered). I have also seen the impact force being abused by saboteurs/mults to knock off teammates' aim. 

2. Decrease lateral following ability of salvo missiles --> decrease the ability of salvo missiles to travel long distances horizontally, this will make it much more difficult for missiles to follow fast moving targets and will rather make players stick to the intended purpose of scorpion as an "anti-camper turret", solely targeting non-moving enemies. I suggest this mechanic because of CTF, RGB, and TJR modes being ruined by scorpion salvos hitting flag/ball carriers/juggernaut, no matter how fast they try to go. It is currently not possible to outrun the salvo, even with max juggernaut or trickster drone.

3. Salvo hit zone indicator --> scorpion's salvo has a "sweet spot" for range which makes is suitable for hitting players behind walls at a certain range. Any closer, and the salvo will go over their heads, any further and the salvo will flatten out and hit the wall. Adding an indicator on the ground for the player being targeted once a salvo is launched would be able to tell them if they are in this suitable range and that they are in danger from a vertical salvo strike. If the indicator is on the wall, this means the salvo will hit the wall instead and that there is no need to move.

4. Arcade mode shot projectile speed --> arcade shots should travel slower in the air, similar to gauss arcade shots. The salvo is powerful enough at long range, and most players are able to damage stack the salvo with an additional arcade shot at long range. Since arcade shots are for close-medium range protection, their shell speed should be decreased like gauss's.

5. 2-step salvo lock --> the current salvo locking system lets players target an enemy even for a fraction of a second then complete the lock behind cover, enabling them to essentially finish the whole salvo firing process behind cover. The 3 second aim recovery time also aids this broken mechanic. I suggest a 2 step locking process whereby the scorpion user must first complete an initial lock sequence out in the open (preferably >1 sec), and only then can they complete the last part of the sequence behind cover.  

 

Overall, I cannot really say that scorpion added anything beneficial to the game. Before the advent of scorpion, most players already seemed fed up with camping within modes, particularly TJR and CTF. Scorpion only serves to make the game even more campy, with both sides using scorpions and hiding behind walls. Players who were usually on the front lines are now scared to go out and fight simply because they are afraid of getting hit by a camper's salvo. They cannot even get close enough to the scorpion campers to deal any damage to them. Similarly, juggernauts permanently hide behind walls, too afraid to be destroyed by a scorpion salvo. This could be fixed by enabling the salvo to primarily target immobile players (campers), and not players who are moving around the map (see suggestion 2). I believe all of these nerfs to be reasonable in order to preserve healthy gameplay, since campy battles are boring battles.

 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

Looks like a roomba with a pole attached.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

Tested it some more. Kinda fun to use.

[Me0w_XP 523]

Javelin is to Swarm as Swarm is to Wolfpack. My lord.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Me0w_XP

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Why do most of the rockets drift and miss the target?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/14/2023 at 11:34 AM, ghost-guns said:

Why do most of the rockets drift and miss the target?

Can you explain this a bit better? What exactly are you seeing the missiles do?

[ghost-guns 1,486]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:38 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Can you explain this a bit better? What exactly are you seeing the missiles do?

When I use the lock on mode, all of the rockets are missing the target and landing behind or in front etc. It seems worse the closer the target is.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/14/2023 at 11:43 AM, ghost-guns said:

When I use the lock on mode, all of the rockets are missing the target and landing behind or in front etc. It seems worse the closer the target is.

The salvo is intended for ranged targets. There is a minimum range you have to be if you want your missiles to hit a target. For Stock and every augment using Stock's salvo parameters, that range is ~85m (which is about the longest reach of a Slugger Hammer). That is the range where it will come down from above. Juggernaut is a good mode to practise averaging the range as many of them hide behind walls, sometimes thin walls, like in Desert. 

 

 

That is for your problem of them landing behind a target. That would mean you are too close to them when locking on. I'm not sure what you mean by landing in front. I'm assuming you mean the missiles are impacting the objects that the enemies are hiding behind. In that case, refer to the video above as well. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by TheCongoSpider

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:26 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

The salvo is intended for ranged targets. There is a minimum range you have to be if you want your missiles to hit a target. For Stock and every augment using Stock's salvo parameters, that range is ~85m (which is about the longest reach of a Slugger Hammer). That is the range where it will come down from above. Juggernaut is a good mode to practise averaging the range as many of them hide behind walls, sometimes thin walls, like in Desert. 

 

On 1/14/2023 at 8:26 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

That is for your problem of them landing behind a target. That would mean you are too close to them when locking on. I'm not sure what you mean by landing in front. I'm assuming you mean the missiles are impacting the objects that the enemies are hiding behind. In that case, refer to the video above as well. 

They also take the shortest Path of Travel (POT) or Route of Travel (ROT) to the target. So if you know you're being targeted, you can clamp yourself up the the nearest wall as long as its high enough.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/14/2023 at 3:05 PM, PirateSpider said:

 

They also take the shortest Path of Travel (POT) or Route of Travel (ROT) to the target. So if you know you're being targeted, you can clamp yourself up the the nearest wall as long as its high enough.

That's true. Though it may be hard to ascertain that you are the one being locked onto in the heat of some battles. 

[cybernite 93]

Anyone else get that Scorpion EMP? I got it and tried it; it doesn't EMP that often, the Scorpion's fire rate is low so decreased critical chance I guess.

Too bad it doesn't work like Scorpion Swarm EMP..... 

So this new Scorpion SPEAR is like a faster Swarm but fewer rockets? 

Someone above said why do the rockets not hit....    the target has to be fairly far away to hit the target.... if you want close-mid range.. SWARM works better..

Anyone else notice there is less Scorpions lately in games? I saw the same trend with Tesla....  I guess the nerf decreased Scorpion usage and players got bored of it.

 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Pulsar Scorpion has:

 

Afterburn: 4 ticks

Stun: 1.5 seconds

EMP: 2 seconds

AP: 10 seconds

Jammer: 5 seconds

 

So we know that Stun Scorpion is currently at 1.5 seconds and Jammer Scorpion is currently at 5 seconds. 

[Me0w_XP 523]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:08 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

Pulsar Scorpion has:

 

Afterburn: 4 ticks

Stun: 1.5 seconds

EMP: 2 seconds

AP: 10 seconds

Jammer: 5 seconds

 

So we know that Stun Scorpion is currently at 1.5 seconds and Jammer Scorpion is currently at 5 seconds. 

Quite an L augment in my opinion. I'm sorry I didn't switch out of Blue.

[Me0w_XP 523]

Just screwed around with Scorpion Pulsar... I'll be making a video about it, but here's a text review for now:

It's extremely lackluster, exactly as I was expecting. Part of me was hoping that we'd get some super-Pulsar with long status effects to make up for the slow firing rate... but no. Just a standard, run-of-the-mill weak status Pulsar with -30% critical chance. As Congo pointed out, the critical chance goes from 30, 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 to 21, 0, 3.5, 7, 10.5, 14, 17.5, 21, the same as Thunder's. However, Scorpion's reload is about twice that of Thunder's. Even during Hornet or Dictator OD, a miss can really cost you because of the long reload.

Here are the status durations:

On 1/16/2023 at 10:08 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

Afterburn: 4 ticks

Stun: 1.5 seconds

EMP: 2 seconds

AP: 10 seconds

Jammer: 5 seconds

The only effects that are still active after reloading are Burning, AP, and Jammer, all of which can be negated by a Repair Kit. The debilitating effects, Stun and EMP, both run out before you can get a next shot in. The best practical use for this augment is disarming someone right before you strike them with rockets (like how devs envisioned status Gausses), but the timing required for that is difficult and you have to have the right distance between you and your target. I've definitely pulled it off before, though; however, there are so many augments that can take out opponents more easily just as effectively, I don't see any real reason to pick Scorpion Pulsar of all augments.

Not a good augment, absolutely no reason to pick it if you have literally anything else. Stock might even be better, given Scorpion's stock critical chance and damage are pretty solid. Fellow Blue faction players, I'm sorry we didn't switch out.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Me0w_XP

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/16/2023 at 12:30 PM, Me0w_XP said:

Just screwed around with Scorpion Pulsar... I'll be making a video about it, but here's a text review for now:

It's extremely lackluster, exactly as I was expecting. Part of me was hoping that we'd get some super-Pulsar with long status effects to make up for the slow firing rate... but no. Just a standard, run-of-the-mill weak status Pulsar with -30% critical chance. As Congo pointed out, the critical chance goes from 30, 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 to 21, 0, 3.5, 7, 10.5, 14, 17.5, 21, the same as Thunder's. However, Scorpion's reload is about twice that of Thunder's. Even during Hornet or Dictator OD, a miss can really cost you because of the long reload.

Here are the status durations:

The only effects that are still active after reloading are Burning, AP, and Jammer, all of which can be negated by a Repair Kit. The debilitating effects, Stun and EMP, both run out before you can get a next shot in. The best practical use for this augment is disarming someone right before you strike them with rockets (like how devs envisioned status Gausses), but the timing required for that is difficult and you have to have the right distance between you and your target. I've definitely pulled it off before, though; however, there are so many augments that can take out opponents more easily just as effectively, I don't see any real reason to pick Scorpion Pulsar of all augments.

Not a good augment, absolutely no reason to pick it if you have literally anything else. Stock might even be better, given Scorpion's stock critical chance and damage are pretty solid. Fellow Blue faction players, I'm sorry we didn't switch out.

Only played one battle with it so I could see the status durations. I'm having a lot of fun with Missile Launcher Spear on mobile, though Hyperion is a huge factor in that. I can't stand to play with Brutus-tier supply cooldowns at endgame anymore. 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by TheCongoSpider

[Me0w_XP 523]

On 1/16/2023 at 11:37 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

Only played one battle with it so I could see the status durations. I'm having a lot of fun with Missile Launcher Spear on mobile, though Hyperion is a huge factor in that. I can't stand to play with Brutus-tier supply cooldowns at endgame anymore. 

 

Lucky you for getting an actually good augment out of the minigame, haha.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/14/2023 at 11:43 AM, ghost-guns said:

When I use the lock on mode, all of the rockets are missing the target and landing behind or in front etc. It seems worse the closer the target is.

You can take a look at this to see how salvos in Stadium will go to the targets. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by TheCongoSpider

[cybernite 93]

Well on 2 accounts I have Spear and Tornado, and only played a little so far and haven't fully tested yet.

Spear only 4 rockets is like Swarm, but the rockets go faster so it might be good for longe range targets to weaken enemy; but Swarm you get 6 rockets more damage.

Tornado 16 rockets good only for mid-long range, but a +25 % reload for arcade shells which sort of sucks.

Too bad there wasn't a faster arcade reload aug for Scorpion, I like that option for fast reload cause there might be a chance ot survive close range battles.

 

[Me0w_XP 523]

Javelin: Wolfpack on steroids. Firepower is sacrificed for accuracy. I hear it's best with damage boosting drones- Camper, Crisis, Booster.

Tornado: Explosive Warheads on steroids. The increased arcade reload is not even noticeable if you hard camp and salvo spam. Cancer. There's also a trick to use them at short range- search TheDetective999Two on YouTube.

Uranium: Explosive Shells on steroids with none of the downsides.

Swarm: Still a practical close range Scorpion.

Pulsar: