How are you supposed to finish in the top 3?

[Thunderchild 8]

Hello all,

Possibly a question for the developers but not sure...?

How is anyone who is not at least a GS greater than 8000 supposed to finish in the top 3 of a battle?

I (GS ~ 5500, mark 6-3 Thunder, mark 6-0 hull, Brutus level 13) have been in more than 40 battles since the weekend and in every battle not only has the red team had a majority of greater than 8000 GS opponents, against which I and several team members don't stand a chance, but my team has also had several greater than 8000 GS tanks. How am I and the other team members supposed to finish in the top 3 to complete missions?

Not only can the lower GS tanks not complete missions we can also not earn enough crystals to replace the supplies we burn through just to make a handful of kills.

Perhaps you need to rewrite your MM algorithms to create groupings where the 8000+ GS are grouped into battles, 8000 GS - 6000 GS are grouped, 6000 GS - 4000 GS are grouped, 4000 GS - 2000 GS are grouped & 2000 GS - 0 GS are grouped.

This may mean that the battles may contain less tanks but at least the players would stand a chance against each other and make the game more attractive and enjoyable to the newer members.  

Appreciate that your answer will probably be "spend some Euros and buy better equipment" but my answer is that I have better and more important things to spend my hard-earned cash on. I play Tanki to enjoy myself, not to invest in.

Please upvote this post if you agree.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

If your spend you crystals well, it's definitely possible to get a decent GS at your rank (without buying anything with cash), and with that, you can get to the top easily. I recommend you to start upgarding brutus right now as that's really important for supply power, and don't use speed ups, but keep it upgrading constantly till it reaches level 20. Also, i don't know your rank, but if you can, get some mk7 equipment at tankers day 50% sales, which will be at september.

[Thunderchild 8]

Hi mjmj5558 and thank you for your reply.

Spending crystals well implies that:-

1. I can earn crystals from battles. When you are scoring only 200-600 crystals per battle because you cannot compete against 8000 GS+ opponents it literally takes weeks to save the  90,000 to upgrade my Rico (my other turret) for level 5-3 to level 6 or the 97,000 to upgrade my Viking from Mk 5-4 to Mk 6-0. I am currently upgrading  my Brutus to L-14 (cost 6,810) and my Thunder to  from Mk 6-2 to Mk 6-3 (cost 7,220) so if I average 400 crystals per battle I have to play 35+ battles just to replace what I am spending nevermind making enough to do the next set of upgrades.
2. I can earn crystals from missions. Depending on the mission, as long it is not a top 3 finish mission, I can make an extra couple of thousand crystals from daily missions or up to 15,000 crystals for weekly missions.

But neither of the above crystal earning methods help much. I, and dozens of other players, simply spend so many double-damage, double-armour and double-speed supplies that we end up using up so many crystals just to make a handful of kills. I.e. we are spending more per battle than we can make off that battle.

Yes, I did some upgrading in the last sale day but that is not a long term solution. The solution  is better MM grouping. You can see if this for yourself if you join a battle as an observer not a participant and watch the lower GS tanks get wiped out then look at the scores at the end of the battle.  

[Cor7y 13,862]

Easy way to get top 3 in winning team for that daily/weekly mission if you don't have good equipment:

Use Dictator + Isida+Support nanobots/Shaft + Healing emitters (if you have it) and play ASL mode on defending team. Heal your team the entire round and use point farming drone like Mechanic for easy points.
Works 90% of the time.

 

[Thunderchild 8]

Thanks Cor7y.

These replies are missing the point though. 

For the few dozen players it is not possible to play against opponents who have much higher GS ratings, and that's not even bringing the impossible augments (yeah, so much for the 'physics' of tank battles) into the conversation.

It is truly not surprising that the player base has dropped when the average player has 0 chance in battles when they do finally get to log in and launch a game.

[Cor7y 13,862]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:43 PM, Thunderchild said:

For the few dozen players it is not possible to play against opponents who have much higher GS ratings, and that's not even bringing the impossible augments (yeah, so much for the 'physics' of tank battles) into the conversation.

You don't need good equipment to get top 3 in winning team with the method I mentioned. All you have to do is stay hidden in your base the entire match on defending ASL team and simply heal teammates and use point-farming drones like Mechanic (where you get points if you use a repair kit near a teammate).
What usually happens in ASL mode is barely anyone from the enemy team attacks, so you don't die much often but can still rack up a lot of points with Dictator+Isida combo.

If you're still confused, you can send me a DM and I can help you out.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:01 AM, Thunderchild said:

But neither of the above crystal earning methods help much. I, and dozens of other players, simply spend so many double-damage, double-armour and double-speed supplies that we end up using up so many crystals just to make a handful of kills. I.e. we are spending more per battle than we can make off that battle.

Now that's the problem. You should try to use as many supplies as many you get from weekly and daily missions, special missions and challanges. If you complete all of these, you can surely get around 200 of each supply per week, which should be enough. Buying supplies for you is the worst idea possible, as you don't get full power from the because of your drone level, and on a long term, upgarding equipment is more benefical. Maybe if you would never have bought supplies, you would be among those 8K GS players (though i don't know, what's your rank).

[XXOO-13 0]

buy can make you strong

[TargetXAcquired 277]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:13 AM, mjmj5558 said:

If your spend you crystals well, it's definitely possible to get a decent GS at your rank (without buying anything with cash)

 

On 8/24/2022 at 9:32 AM, mjmj5558 said:

you can surely get around 200 of each supply per week, which should be enough

 Funniest post in ages, i mean you for real, 200 supplies per week  i can use that in a couple of hrs. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 10:01 AM, Thunderchild said:

 

The only way to have a G/S relative to your rank IN THIS GAME is to only do missions, then quit for the day, "every day." 

Until the developers make it so that your crystal gain is at least 3X more than your XP gain and increase the XP needed to rank by at least X3, players who spend very little to no cash will ALWAYS have a useless G/S regardless of rank and more often than not, get well thumped in battle.

I am sure the developers recognise this is a major problem but refuse to acknowledge it, cash rules every decision and balance and fair play will never have a place in this greed infested game.

 

[Thunderchild 8]

On 8/24/2022 at 9:32 AM, mjmj5558 said:

Now that's the problem. You should try to use as many supplies as many you get from weekly and daily missions, special missions and challanges. If you complete all of these, you can surely get around 200 of each supply per week, which should be enough. Buying supplies for you is the worst idea possible, as you don't get full power from the because of your drone level, and on a long term, upgarding equipment is more benefical. Maybe if you would never have bought supplies, you would be among those 8K GS players (though i don't know, what's your rank).

Hi.

The only way a lower GS can make a kill is to use double-damage. The only way a lower GS can avoid getting killed within seconds of spawning is to run away (using double-speed) or use double armour to try to get a few shots in and then use repair kits to heal the damage.

So you have to buy supplies to get a kill or two, or avoid being killed near instantly.

At the end of the day you need crystals to upgrade equipment and drones. To get crystals you need to finish battles. You finish battles by killing opponents trying to stop you from capturing flags, scoring goals, etc. (or picking up supply boxes). To kill opponents you need to be able to withstand their hits and hit them. To be able to withstand their hits and hit them you need to be as powerful, or more powerful, than they are. For a GS of 6000 to take the hit and hit a GS 9000 means the 6000 needs supplies to earn crystals to be able to upgrade.  

So it is a vicious circle whereby the MM algorithm needs to be redesigned.

P.S. playing under another login I have now been in several games where GS 6000 tanks have been put in games with all other players being under GS 2000. Surely that can't be right?

[NikmanGT 4,375]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:25 PM, Thunderchild said:

 

Topic Moved

This topic is better suited for general discussion rather than in a QnA format.

Feel free to discuss more

[rebar619 93]

@mjmj5558 BS. The game is so lopsided this is an utter joke of a response. The only way to get top 3 is to either be on the losing team when everyone else bails because Matchmaking is garbage, or you don't.  Having to be on the winning team is almost as bad. 

It would be nice if the developers would spend some time actually fixing the game balance rather than screwing around with more guns and graphics. The game play is terrible (have you tried CTF lately?) and the devs just crank out pretty skins and OP turrets. Frustratingly stupid. 

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 8/24/2022 at 2:42 PM, Thunderchild said:

Hi.

The only way a lower GS can make a kill is to use double-damage. The only way a lower GS can avoid getting killed within seconds of spawning is to run away (using double-speed) or use double armour to try to get a few shots in and then use repair kits to heal the damage.

So you have to buy supplies to get a kill or two, or avoid being killed near instantly.

At the end of the day you need crystals to upgrade equipment and drones. To get crystals you need to finish battles. You finish battles by killing opponents trying to stop you from capturing flags, scoring goals, etc. (or picking up supply boxes). To kill opponents you need to be able to withstand their hits and hit them. To be able to withstand their hits and hit them you need to be as powerful, or more powerful, than they are. For a GS of 6000 to take the hit and hit a GS 9000 means the 6000 needs supplies to earn crystals to be able to upgrade.  

So it is a vicious circle whereby the MM algorithm needs to be redesigned.

P.S. playing under another login I have now been in several games where GS 6000 tanks have been put in games with all other players being under GS 2000. Surely that can't be right?

You can view it from hat point. But here's an other POV: you are recruit. You play against recruits. Everyone has 0 GS. You complete all daily and weekly missions, get crystals and supplies. You spend all your crystals on upgarding brutus, reach 100% supply power quickly and you also have a good equipment. With this model, you'll be the one with the 8K GS, as it is possible to reach it as early as possible if you only spend crystals at upgarding (at sales).

 

On 8/24/2022 at 2:42 PM, Thunderchild said:

At the end of the day you need crystals to upgrade equipment and drones. To get crystals you need to finish battles.

This used to be that way. Now, actually, as you said, you technically have a negative gain per battle, because you spend more crystals as  supplies than you get back at the end of the battle. This negative gain can be changed by adding the reward of the daily and weekly missions, plus special and challanges. However, if you play more battles than needed to complete the missions, you gain less  technically than if you stop playing when you completed them. This is to avoid player grinding  which will result in a less playtime on the long go than continuous, daily playing. Smart design, all i can say. 

So then again, what you should do is, only use as many supplies as you have, don't buy more. Complete all missions every day, and stop playing once you did them. After you got crystals from containers, because now that's the main source of income,  upgrade brutus and your equipment at tankers day.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:46 PM, rebar619 said:

The game is so lopsided this is an utter joke of a response. The only way to get top 3 is to either be on the losing team when everyone else bails because Matchmaking is garbage, or you don't. 

I disagree. I come to the TOP-3 like 70% of the time, it's easy with proper gameplay and equipment. (I'd like to mention that i don't use any buyer like equipment which is locked vehind UCs). 

 

On 8/24/2022 at 5:46 PM, rebar619 said:

Having to be on the winning team is almost as bad

That mission is very luck dependent indeed. If you carry enough you can win thuogh.

[Thunderchild 8]

"Complete all missions...stop playing once you did them." - mjmj5558, Hazel is displeased and would like to see you in the office 

 

[Master_Scope 164]

Just complete daily missions

ONLY COMPLETE DAILY MISSIONS 

Otherwise will waste supplies and rank up to quickly

Use one combo and max it out before wasting crystals on getting other turrets to mk5-6ish - it doesnt matter what unless its something stupid like heavy hull + meele turret 

 

max brutus first the bonus it gives is huge

 

Its not hard to have a playable garage as f2p 

just dont waste crystals

 

 

[Opex-Rah 5,382]

Oh look! A moderator hide a post in here! As if nobody have seen what was in that post

[Opex-Rah 5,382]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:16 PM, OpakiRaich said:

Tell your fellow moderators to stop abusing their power and censoring every goddam thing. 

Something beyond my power.

And not to fall into an off-topic discussion I need to ask when exactly we used this specific mission to make it into TOP3 of a WINNING team? I know we have this option, but most of the time there should be either just TOP3 (which is easy to do in a losing team) or just WINNING TEAM (which happens eventually). Am I missing some recent event?

[DragonKnight 414]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:50 PM, Opex-Rah said:

And not to fall into an off-topic discussion I need to ask when exactly we used this specific mission to make it into TOP3 of a WINNING team? I know we have this option, but most of the time there should be either just TOP3 (which is easy to do in a losing team) or just WINNING TEAM (which happens eventually). Am I missing some recent event?

possibly he wrote that he has bad GS score so its impossible for him to even reach top 3 at the start of this topic

[Opex-Rah 5,382]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:30 PM, UnIeash said:

You may as well remove that mission top 3 winning team, no one like it anyway its either you have 9999gs top 3 is guaranteed with low gs its more about luck than skill.

Well, it was effectively removed in all the recent events. This is why I am asking why this is even a topic. There shouldn't be a mission like that, or I messed up somewhere. Can anyone tell when a mission like that was used the last time?

[Opex-Rah 5,382]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:49 PM, OpakiRaich said:

@Opex-RahIt is still present in weekly missions. 

Aha! This is something worth looking into, thank you

[rebar619 93]

@mjmj5558 I know you are trying to help, but reading your response it is hard to take you seriously. We are clearly playing two different games, because the Tanki I see on a daily basis is one that is hard to enjoy and stay engaged in because every match is a blowout. If I am lucky 10% of the matches I play are competitive. It is terrible! To make it a mission to place Top 3 requires you to have a Godmode inventory for any situation or to get your teeth kicked in and MAYBE be top 3 on the team that is obliterated by the team of buyers Matchmaking cobbles together. It is an utter joke. 

I WOULD LOVE to know how matchmaking is going to be fixed. The devs are too big of cowards to actually address this. 

[Akame 4,580]

I know that you can atleast be in the winning team top 3 no matter how u rank in DM atleast, tho that's usually a special event

[KokoNut 7]

Such great advice from all of you, equip an Isida and just camp in one place while healing teammates, or be lucky enough to get to Top3 in the *Losing* team?

The problem with your (I presume) main turret, Viking, is that when the Hyperspeed Shells were introduced, almost everyone immediatly went for Thunder protection modules. Before the introduction, I'd see a couple of enemies with this protection module maxed out, nowadays, it's almost half if not 80% of the enemy team. This is obviously a major mistake from the developers that incentivised this movement, making the Thunder (with no arguably OP augments) pretty much useless. 

I have a Cryo Thunder, I equip it on bigger maps and usually atleast half of the enemy team has protection against it and I do anywhere from ~100 to ~300dmg per shot. It's just not a viable turret at the moment, in my situation atleast.

My Tesla/Hopper setup quite regurarly gets me to atleast top5 in most matches, even in larger maps, where I just ambush attacking players.  So I guess melee-ranged turrets (firebird, freeze, tesla, hammer) are recommended to use, as they can dish out large amounts of damage to multiple players at once, increasing your battle score.

As far as your problem, I don't really have any advice as to how to achieve Top3 in a battle as it is really dependant on matchmaking, whether you get similar GS enemies, or maxed out ones. Best thing to do is hope and try your best.

[Maf 32,306]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:43 PM, Akame said:

I know that you can atleast be in the winning team top 3 no matter how u rank in DM atleast, tho that's usually a special event

Wait, really? Finishing any DM battle counts towards that mission even if you're in dead last? I always assumed you have to actually be top 3.