Why is the high-rank game balance so damn awful?

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:28 PM, Gabe2607 said:

it would be just another way buyers get stuff over free players. 

You could get 24 for completing weekly missions every week and 100 for completing every half monthly challenge.

That gives you 296 tankoins in a month. And in 4 months that'll give you 1184 tankoins.

[Gabe2607 215]

Dear (very few remaining...) Free Players,

Please play MM battles for 4 months. I know: you will be killed every 37 seconds by tanks that are several times stronger than yours (they are called Buyers) and you will play endless hours to try to kill a Juggernaut or to arrive between the top 3 .

Then, you might (that is what "they" say, as I got only 24 tankoins in a month, but certainly I did something wrong, as all free players do, according to Buyers...) have enough tankoins to participate in an event! Whatever that event is (at that point, after getting wrecked for 4 months, who cares about pride anymore, right?), you MIGHT (yes, you read well, another MIGHT) win what you are looking for! All you need is a bit of luck and a lot of hope (wait, isn't it the same thing for homeless people?).

Or just take out a credit card and be done RIGHT NOW! Become a buyer, and start explain free players that they can achieve the same results (just avoid to explain the concept of time...).

Yours Santa.

[Romantically 282]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:29 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Please play MM battles for 4 months. I know: you will be killed every 37 seconds by tanks that are several times stronger than yours (they are called Buyers) and you will play endless hours to try to kill a Juggernaut or to arrive between the top 3 .

I can get Top3 without much difficulty on my alt with 4 prots above 10% and hammer viking maxed with brutus, and I managed to save up over 1k tankoins just by playing regularly 

Yes free players can get stuff too, but they have to play more than your "buyer" has to for obvious reason that you should understand, or would you prefer tanki straight up makes everything behind a paywall?

Also, this Halloween's minigame protection slot only requires you to most likely just finish the  specials mission on minimum, if that's too much effort for you then idk

Edited November 13, 2023 by Romantically

[Gabe2607 215]

If you have no problems arriving to TOP 3 in MM battles, why do you have only 10% protections? And if you have only 10% protections, how can you arrive to TOP3? Low rank?

The "obvious" reason is not "obvious" at all, as many other games profit from ADVERTISING, with free players really competing at same level. I repeat the concept: free players in TO will never ever be able to compete even closely with Buyers (and that is why there are very few free players remaining).

"Most likely" just finish the special mission... "Most likely" will not do it, thanks. 

 

[Romantically 282]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:38 PM, Gabe2607 said:

If you have no problems arriving to TOP 3 in MM battles, why do you have only 10% protections?

Normally, I didn't bother playing on my alt much and neglected it for years and because crystals from battles are meaningless unless you play with premium on x2 

On 11/13/2023 at 2:38 PM, Gabe2607 said:

And if you have only 10% protections, how can you arrive to TOP3? Low rank?

Normally, I just don't switch protections and play regularly (My alt is Legend 4 iirc) using 38% Fire Rail prot, 31% hammer prot and 20% striker prot (those are my max prots on it)

 

On 11/13/2023 at 2:38 PM, Gabe2607 said:

I repeat the concept: free players in TO will never ever be able to compete even closely with Buyers (and that is why there are very few free players remaining).

I was able to beat 9999 legends on 5.8k GS legend rank using non upgraded fire no alt+ hopper no upgrades + level 3 booster, want a pic proof? 

 

Do you have anything else to ask?

 

 

[Romantically 282]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:38 PM, Gabe2607 said:

"Most likely" just finish the special mission... "Most likely" will not do it, thanks. 

 

Then take the time to finish like 3 days of daily missions, where's the problem? Nothing is for free

[Gabe2607 215]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:03 AM, Romantically said:

Crystals from battles are meaningless unless you play with premium on x2.

I was able to beat 9999 legends on 5.8k GS legend rank using non upgraded fire no alt+ hopper no upgrades + level 3 booster, want a pic proof? 

Do you have anything else to ask?

Crystals being meaningless... They are the only tool free players have to upgrade equipment. Without using the credit card, what else is more important than crystals?

"I was able to beat 9999 legends"... One gets to kill stronger tanks occasionally (for different reasons), that happens to every single player. But generally the equipment you described would not stand a chance neither in legend MM battles nor in legend Pro Battles. Since you claimed it is easy to arrive Top3 with that equipment, get ready to make a pic of your next Top3 and post it. I am curious to see your rivals in whatever battle you play.

[Jeers4U 665]

Look guys.

The game is specifically designed to make you spend money. Specifically designed that way.

There are blocks and restrictions, and nerfs and buffs and changes to the game so that free players are discouraged to continue playing for free. Specifically designed that way.

Whatever grind your uncle's mechanic's hair-dresser told you about #winning, or that 'thing' he got in a container once, it is not the norm. Specifically designed that way.

If you think that freebies can compete with buyers over the long haul, you are literally ignoring every data point in this forum that indicates the exact opposite. Specifically designed that way.

If you think that freebies could get all the 'things' that a buyer does--just by grinding a little longer or getting a little more lucky with containers, there wouldn't be a need to ever spend money on this game.

 

Specifically designed that way.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:10 PM, Jeers4U said:

If you think that freebies can compete with buyers over the long haul, you are literally ignoring every data point in this forum that indicates the exact opposite. Specifically designed that way.

If you think that freebies could get all the 'things' that a buyer does--just by grinding a little longer or getting a little more lucky with containers, there wouldn't be a need to ever spend money on this game.

Maybe you can answer this question then. The last person I asked it just evaded it.

 

What can a buyer get that a nonbuyer can't?

[Romantically 282]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:46 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Crystals being meaningless... They are the only tool free players have to upgrade equipment. Without using the credit card, what else is more important than crystals?

On 11/13/2023 at 5:03 PM, Romantically said:

 crystals from battles are meaningless unless you play with premium on x2 

.

You might wanna read what I said one more time

 

On 11/14/2023 at 1:46 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Since you claimed it is easy to arrive Top3 with that equipment, get ready to make a pic of your next Top3 and post it. I am curious to see your rivals in whatever battle you play.

Gonna be hard considering I maxed hammer viking (nothing else) now and I have no reason to play 5.9k gs combo but I can gladly show you an older pic but I'm not gonna purposefully play non upgraded drone + non upgraded equipment when I dont have to just to make a battle screen for you, that would ruin my play experience because I'm not interested 

Actually I changed my mind

I (on my alt) played Slugger hammer vik with brutus, 2 38% prots,1 31% and 1 20% prot and capped 2/3 flags out of which the first i got more than halfway

I used a combo that anyone can use for free

Whatever you say, there is nothing that justifies playing for 600 score to get 1.5k crystals as reward on a good day
 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Romantically
added pic cuz it was first match of the day anyways

[wild001 1,422]

just play casual and relax

Edited November 14, 2023 by wild001

[Gabe2607 215]

On 11/14/2023 at 2:20 AM, Romantically said:

You might wanna read what I said one more time

 

Gonna be hard considering I maxed hammer viking (nothing else) now and I have no reason to play 5.9k gs combo but I can gladly show you an older pic but I'm not gonna purposefully play non upgraded drone + non upgraded equipment when I dont have to just to make a battle screen for you, that would ruin my play experience because I'm not interested 

Actually I changed my mind

I (on my alt) played Slugger hammer vik with brutus, 2 38% prots,1 31% and 1 20% prot and capped 2/3 flags out of which the first i got more than halfway

I used a combo that anyone can use for free

Whatever you say, there is nothing that justifies playing for 600 score to get 1.5k crystals as reward on a good day
 

Again, crystals are super meaningful at ANY TIME for Free Players, as we do not buy the Premium.

Version 1: I had 5.8k GS (past, OK)

Version 2: I maxed out (wow, that was quick...)

Version 3: 8.4k GS (maybe 3 different accounts...)

Anyway, judging from the length of the vertical bar, you played 10 vs 6. Good for you! I never get so lucky. 

By the way do you see your teammate with 5.8k GS? K/D 9/21... 

[Romantically 282]

On 11/15/2023 at 2:55 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Again, crystals are super meaningful at ANY TIME for Free Players, as we do not buy the Premium.

 

On 11/15/2023 at 2:55 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Version 2: I maxed out (wow, that was quick...)

Yes entire 1 combo previous 50% sales anyone can do that

 

On 11/15/2023 at 2:55 AM, Gabe2607 said:

 

Version 3: 8.4k GS (maybe 3 different accounts...)

I have 2 accounts, that one isn't any great, do you want a pic with 2nd place 5.9k GS? 

 

On 11/15/2023 at 2:55 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Anyway, judging from the length of the vertical bar, you played 10 vs 6. Good for you! I never get so lucky. 

By the way do you see your teammate with 5.8k GS? K/D 9/21... 

It was full length and actually difficult because they had decent defense

 

On 11/15/2023 at 2:55 AM, Gabe2607 said:

By the way do you see your teammate with 5.8k GS? K/D 9/21... 

Then you can also see 9799  6/16

Edited November 15, 2023 by Romantically
it's my last reaction Goodbye

[Jeers4U 665]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:56 PM, PirateSpider said:

Maybe you can answer this question then. The last person I asked it just evaded it.

 

What can a buyer get that a nonbuyer can't?

It's more accurate to say:

'How long does it take for a non buyer to equal a buyer.'

Because if a buyer wants the best of everything, he buys it--leaving the non-buyer to hope he gets the same equipment in a container or special mission or whatever.

 

The Paris to Dakkar rally is won by Peugeots (buyers) and not by people walking on foot (non-buyers).

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Jeers4U

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:51 PM, Jeers4U said:

It's more accurate to say:

'How long does it take for a non buyer to equal a buyer.'

Because if a buyer wants the best of everything, he buys it--leaving the non-buyer to hope he gets the same equipment in a container or special mission or whatever.

 

The Paris to Dakkar rally is won by Peugeots (buyers) and not by people walking on foot (non-buyers).

 

 

So you agree that non-buyers can eventually get the same things that buyers can get?

[Jeers4U 665]

On 11/15/2023 at 6:17 PM, PirateSpider said:

So you agree that non-buyers can eventually get the same things that buyers can get?

If the time frame of 'eventually' is the sole point of your argument, you're clinging to an infinitesimal point.

Translation: your argument--while technically correct--is farcical in nature, due to the length of time necessary to achieve your point.

[Atomic_Tanker 249]

bro no use arguing with Gabe, bro called me a buyer once just because i had 4 prot modules and a xt skin, along with stun tesla which i got from mission ultras

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/15/2023 at 3:22 PM, Jeers4U said:

If the time frame of 'eventually' is the sole point of your argument, you're clinging to an infinitesimal point.

I wouldn't consider it "infinitesimal". The fact that nonbuyers can get the same things buyers can get albeit not as quick, is still a pretty big deal.

On 11/15/2023 at 3:22 PM, Jeers4U said:

your argument--while technically correct--is farcical in nature,

It being correct should be obvious if you just look at the shop and checked out things like the minigame, tanki fund, and other participation events. And especially more so since around 95% of the player base has at least one legend rank account.

Also if you think this is " farcical " just look at the many of Gabe's comments. You'll realize how incorrect and out-of-touch he truly is, among other things. Also, this is the last time I'll mention him at all.

[Venerable 2,967]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:21 AM, Jeers4U said:

Because if a buyer wants the best of everything, he buys it--leaving the non-buyer to hope he gets the same equipment in a container or special mission or whatever.

 

Why is this a problem, though? Buyers buy because they get extra/exclusive stuff, or they get stuff early. Or even both. If F2P players start getting everything that buyers get at the same time, why would buyers pay? 

As long as the availability factor is maintained for F2P players, I personally see no serious problem. I'm a free-to-play player (yes, I get a few Helper benefits, but they do not affect RNG). I've got a few lucky Ultra Containers that gave me some pretty decent augments (EMP & AP Gauss, plenty of Immunities, etc.) without paying. However, I never managed to get EMP Gauss when it was an absolute menace. I also could not upgrade Scorpion when it just got released, because I was broke. But hey, my garage is pretty good now, months (maybe years) after the release of some OP equipment! The need for strategizing - and the struggle - will always remain for non-buyers, and that's normal.

I feel that items like Hyperion XT are perfect for buyers. They're cosmetic items, pretty much, that do not affect game balance in any way. And buyers enjoy flexing their gear, so all's good. It does become a problem when buyers have access to really OP equipment early on and for an extended period of time, but that probably won't change any time soon.

[Limanda 45]

@Venerable Bro I don't want it to seem like I'm going after you or something. But why do you even write? This is literally your text:

1st paragraph: This is not a problem
2nd paragraph: This is not a problem.
3rd paragraph: It's a problem, alright. But you cant fix it.

@Jeers4U's position is clear and concise. If you disagree with him(?), you should have the courtesy to make your position the same. Or stay out of it.

 

[alkyng 3,080]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:10 AM, PirateSpider said:

The fact that nonbuyers can get the same things buyers can get albeit not as quick, is still a pretty big deal.

That would be correct if we were talking about pre-2018. I remember Seymon at 2014 said that what makes tanki special is that everyone can eventually get anything that buyer can get. I would add and say, also one currency, unlike other games where you have 2 or more currencies.

This is no longer a character that we can praise tanki for, I'm not blaming them for changing their way but it's just illogical to compliment them for a thing that they not do. You can't go now to garage and purchase the "whatever is currently most game breaking augment", or have a clear way or procedure that you can do to certainly get the augment. This is no longer the case of tanki. Also for low ranks, buyers can early-access equipment's upgrades with tankoins. Which again is a limited distributed currency, I can go now play a match and collect crystals, the same thing cannot be applied to tankoins. F2P would rank way quicker than they can prepare that amount of tankoins, this is an example of what f2p can't get with f2p playing.

Again, I'm not complaining, I haven't criticized tanki with a word in our discussion, I'm only correcting misconceptions. I'm not desiring to get the current most game breaking augment or get kits in low ranks, these aren't my hopes, as I don't play tanki right now. 

On 11/16/2023 at 7:48 AM, Venerable said:

I'm a free-to-play player (yes, I get a few Helper benefits, but they do not affect RNG).

So buyers can buy things that affect RNG? 

[Venerable 2,967]

On 11/16/2023 at 5:09 PM, Limanda said:

@Venerable Bro I don't want it to seem like I'm going after you or something. But why do you even write? This is literally your text:

1st paragraph: This is not a problem
2nd paragraph: This is not a problem.
3rd paragraph: It's a problem, alright. But you cant fix it.

@Jeers4U's position is clear and concise. If you disagree with him(?), you should have the courtesy to make your position the same. Or stay out of it.

 

Nah it's cool. I write because I have an opinion and feel like writing. I also write to try and understand a different perspective better. I kept thinking about "why is this a problem" and felt like replacing it with "is this really a problem" - perhaps it would've conveyed my intention better.

It does seem like "not a problem, not a problem, alright it's a problem". I'm sorry if my words didn't properly convey my thoughts.

The concept of making certain items inaccessible to non-buyers and making them buyer-exclusive is not a problem - it's pretty normal and logical. However, the implementation can be a problem, especially when game balance is affected, and this has happened in Tanki. I just don't know any decent alternatives, that's all.

 

On 11/16/2023 at 5:18 PM, firety31 said:

So buyers can buy things that affect RNG? 

No, I just thought it would avoid replies like "if you're a Helper, you're not F2P".  That comment is supposed to mean "it's not that being a Helper gives me an extreme/unfair advantage". Let me know if I'm still not clear.

[MEXICAN-SKY 308]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:55 PM, Venerable said:

However, the implementation can be a problem, especially when game balance is affected, and this has happened in Tanki. I just don't know any decent alternatives, that's all

I do and I posted my solution a very long time ago, (TO time frame) but as usual nothing came of it. 

[alkyng 3,080]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:55 PM, Venerable said:

No, I just thought it would avoid replies like "if you're a Helper, you're not F2P".  That comment is supposed to mean "it's not that being a Helper gives me an extreme/unfair advantage". Let me know if I'm still not clear.

The only way to avoid these replies is to not say you're a F2P player. Casual F2P players don't get helpers' rewards, and no no one has said helpers are getting better chances at RNG, you're literally replying to nothing. This is called straw man

[Venerable 2,967]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:46 PM, firety31 said:

The only way to avoid these replies is to not say you're a F2P player.

But I am a free-to-play player. I don't buy in any game. 

But yeah, you're right. I should not have unnecessarily tried to reply to something that hasn't been mentioned. It's my bad.