Why is the high-rank game balance so damn awful?

[Jeers4U 665]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:10 PM, PirateSpider said:

I wouldn't consider it "infinitesimal". The fact that nonbuyers can get the same things buyers can get albeit not as quick, is still a pretty big deal.

You consider that a big deal. I don't really. You've said the same thing twice and I completely disagree with both of them.

Again, 'not as quick' is a relative term and it's still the 'eventually' point you are adhering to.

Glaciers move 'not as quick' as airplanes.

Glaciers 'eventually' move the same distance as airplanes.

Although it is theoretically possible to get the same items as a buyer, realistically, practically and obviously it isn't--based on time.

That is, was, and will always be, my point.

 

And during that time, the developers will change the parameters of the game, the rewards of the game, and literally almost everything else about the game, so the things that you are initially trying to obtain change. It's a moving target over the course of that time you are playing (Remember when they took away everyone's drones?). So again, it isn't a big deal. And again, saying you can 'get there' is farcical. Based on time.

 

On 11/15/2023 at 11:48 PM, Venerable said:

Why is this a problem, though?

It does become a problem when buyers have access to really OP equipment early on and for an extended period of time, but that probably won't change any time soon.

I don't consider it a problem--they can do whatever they want with the game-but I certainly don't see it being a 'perk' of playing tanki.

I have changed my tactics so that I just leave a battle if it's too lop-sided because of buyers. I wait a couple of minutes in the garage first though.

 

They could take away the infinitesimal ability to get all the 'things' a buyer has purchased and it wouldn't affect me or my game. At all.

But again, it isn't a 'perk' if you can't realistically get it.

 

On 11/16/2023 at 8:25 AM, Venerable said:

But yeah, you're right. I should not have unnecessarily tried to reply to something that hasn't been mentioned. It's my bad.

Nah. You're good my dude. Communicating is ALWAYS a good thing.

 

 

 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:48 AM, firety31 said:

That would be correct if we were talking about pre-2018. I remember Seymon at 2014 said that what makes tanki special is that everyone can eventually get anything that buyer can get. I would add and say, also one currency, unlike other games where you have 2 or more currencies.

Actually if we were to talk about pre-2018, and I made the same claim, you would all be correct in disagreeing. Hell, even @Jeers4U calling it "infinitesimal" and "farcical" would've best described the situation back then.

Back then, before containers and challenges were a thing, there weren't very many ways to get supplies and crystals.

It was even worse in pre-2015 tanki where even missions didn't exist. Back then the only way to get crystals was going through each battle and the only way to get supplies was through the daily login bonus where they could get a measly 10-30 (don't remember the exact number).

On 11/16/2023 at 3:48 AM, firety31 said:

You can't go now to garage and purchase the "whatever is currently most game breaking augment", or have a clear way or procedure that you can do to certainly get the augment. This is no longer the case of tanki. 

Its regardless of whether someone is a buyer or not.

 

[Limanda 45]

@Venerable
Thanks. I consider your last couple posts to be honest and in good faith, even if your position is still not entirely clear to me.
 

@Jeers4U
As this thread itself suggests, I think a lot of people have a desire to play Tanki like it was a traditional FPS with equal terms. And of a Instead of a Paris-Dakkar on foot, I would suggest that the f2p experience is more like a a campaign mode game where your next mission is always to go out and face the newly released OP crap. P2w's are bosses, and the f2p is the first person hero struggling though her journey for equalization. But as you point out, if (read: when) you are so lucky to get the latest item, it will be nerfed, and a new shiny toy will appear. This is the dev playbook to avoid power creep, while keeping sadists and vengeance-seekers swiping. In the campaign game Tanki there is no end boss, your quest will never be over, and there will never be equality and justice in the kingdom.

 

[alkyng 3,080]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:54 PM, PirateSpider said:

Its regardless of whether someone is a buyer or not.

Buyers can get a huge amount of UCs till they get the augment. Non-buyers are only limited to a few of them and even not available at all times, only at events so 70% of the time they're locked. 

[Jeers4U 665]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:22 AM, Limanda said:

In the campaign game Tanki there is no end boss, your quest will never be over, and there will never be equality and justice in the kingdom.

Correct.

There is no 'goal' in F2P tanki.

So when tanki does that lame thing where the other side is vastly overpowered with buyers (or higher gear scores), i just sit in the garage for 59 seconds, join the battle, self destruct, sit in the garage for 59 seconds, repeat (every once in a while moving my tank a little bit)...

Edited November 16, 2023 by Jeers4U

[Limanda 45]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:52 PM, Jeers4U said:

Correct.

There is no 'goal' in F2P tanki.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:04 AM, firety31 said:

Buyers can get a huge amount of UCs till they get the augment.

Only the mega buyers are going be doing that, which is about 5% of tanki's buyer population.

[alkyng 3,080]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:34 AM, PirateSpider said:

Only the mega buyers are going be doing that, which is about 5% of tanki's buyer population.

Ufff. Again, I'm talking about the possibility. Mega F2P players can't get more containers to increase their chances. If by this, Mexican and Kimura were righteous about your Crisis topic and the discussion should've gone this way:

[Pirate] Hi, Crisis is OP and must get nerfed.

[Mexican/Kimura] No, it consumes too many supplies and only mega-buyers can afford it who are 5% of buyers' population.

[Pirate] Oh that's right, Crisis shouldn't get nerfed.

[Whatsoever moderator] Well. Invalid, Closed.

With all being honest if the discussion went this way it would be way better than 6 pages of discussion.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:19 AM, firety31 said:

Ufff. Again, I'm talking about the possibility.

Is it a possibility? Oh yes definitely. 

Are players likely to buy it? I seriously doubt it.

On 11/17/2023 at 2:19 AM, firety31 said:

Mega F2P players can't get more containers to increase their chances.

Well I mean even they can get their rewards faster than regular free loaders.

On 11/17/2023 at 2:19 AM, firety31 said:

If by this, Mexican and Kimura were righteous about your Crisis topic and the discussion should've gone this way:

[Pirate] Hi, Crisis is OP and must get nerfed.

[Mexican/Kimura] No, it consumes too many supplies and only mega-buyers can afford it who are 5% of buyers' population.

[Pirate] Oh that's right, Crisis shouldn't get nerfed.

[Whatsoever moderator] Well. Invalid, Closed.

With all being honest if the discussion went this way it would be way better than 6 pages of discussion.

These are two completely different subjects. One is an ongoing situation between buyers and nonbuyers, the rewards and containers. The other is simply a mechanic and how it affects game balance.

Its like saying discussions about state or national economics should be brought up when discussing about apples. Makes absolutely zero sense.

[Gabe2607 215]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:00 PM, Atomic_Tanker said:

bro no use arguing with Gabe, bro called me a buyer once just because i had 4 prot modules and a xt skin, along with stun tesla which i got from mission ultras

You have Tesla MK1 (I repeat ONE)... Legend 3... K/D 0.83 ... 1.5 MM crystals... visible on your profile... but you got everything on missions, sure... 

[Atomic_Tanker 249]

Unfortunately for you, @Gabe2607, the "Atomic_Tanker" account of mine was left inactive quite a while back...
This is my currently active account, in which we encountered each other in a "Highways CTF" pro battle... and you called me a buyer because I had 4 prot slots 

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1092067996077396011/1176000780013146132/image.png?ex=656d4712&is=655ad212&hm=386963ffcc82be7b684333e0fed9353b6dc97a4c1a7f1329a82a1f2ebbe6d95b&

And yes, I did get these auguments from the ultra containers given out for completing the weekend missions. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Atomic_Tanker

[Gabe2607 215]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:29 PM, Atomic_Tanker said:

Unfortunately for you, @Gabe2607, the "Atomic_Tanker" account of mine was left inactive quite a while back...
This is my currently active account, in which we encountered each other in a "Highways CTF" pro battle...

  Hide contents

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1092067996077396011/1176000780013146132/image.png?ex=656d4712&is=655ad212&hm=386963ffcc82be7b684333e0fed9353b6dc97a4c1a7f1329a82a1f2ebbe6d95b&

And yes, I did get these auguments from the ultra containers given out for completing the weekend missions. 

Did you get ALL 16 - M7 turrets from ultra containers as a Legend 17? Which is interesting, because I am at a higher Level and I never got any, having "built with crystals" my only 2 - M7 turrets (and only 2 - M7 hulls) ...

35-40,000 players paid 1,000 tankoins to participate in a "Fund", but none admits "yes, I paid". They are all Superstar Free Players who manage to make 1,000 "every four months (LOL)".

[Atomic_Tanker 249]

On 11/20/2023 at 11:58 AM, Gabe2607 said:

because I am at a higher Level and I never got any, having "built with crystals" my only 2 - M7 turrets (and only 2 - M7 hulls) ...

If you manage to upgrade one turret to Mk7+ per Legend rank(200k exp) , then this is easily attainable,( if you spend earned crystals on sales only). There are 16 turrets and 16 legend ranks between legend 1 and 17 ...
And how can one get Mk7+ turrets from ultra containers, I wonder...

[demon09 89]

I wonder, will TO try to fix the matchmaking problem? It seems like a very serious issue.

If too few players are playing, it will only get worse when players leave.

Wasn't there an interview with a dev recently? Did they say anything?

[Dumbledore6969 244]

On 6.12.2023 at 01:19, demon09 said:

Zastanawiam się, czy TO spróbuje rozwiązać problem z dobieraniem graczy? Wydaje się, że jest to bardzo poważny problem.

Jeśli gra zbyt mało graczy, sytuacja będzie się tylko pogarszać, gdy gracze odejdą.

Czy nie było ostatnio wywiadu z deweloperem? Czy coś powiedzieli?

Hi in this V-LOG developers talked about the introduction of bots, maybe it will interest you.

 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:19 PM, demon09 said:

wonder, will TO try to fix the matchmaking problem? It seems like a very serious issue.

For those of us who have been here awhile, we already know the answer.

For those that still have hope for the devs, I just want to wish them good luck in their attempts.

On 12/5/2023 at 4:19 PM, demon09 said:

If too few players are playing, it will only get worse when players leave.

Hate it when people say that certain things "aren't an issue" when it clearly is. And if they truly aren't an issue, then neither is players leaving.

[demon09 89]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:03 AM, Dumbledore6969 said:

Hi in this V-LOG developers talked about the introduction of bots, maybe it will interest you.

 

Bots sounds like it could be fun for new gamemodes, like defending against a swarm of easily killable but dangerous in numbers tank "zombies".

But its much more fun to play against real players.

I'd rather they would create a system that shrinks the gap between the stats of the equipment of players, that calculate the average GS of players and pulls the highest and lowest gs players closer to the middle.

Edited December 6, 2023 by demon09

[Jeers4U 665]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:32 AM, Jeers4U said:

The theory is that the game puts you into an intentionally frantic and panicked 'state' by it's game/match imbalance (life).

That 'state' is like a pseudo continual fight-or-flight response (anxiety).

It's during that emotional response that you are most likely to do whatever it takes to survive (willpower).

The developers are hoping that 'whatever it takes to survive' happens to be in the form of spending money on the game (temptation).

If you are finding it frustrating... it is by design and how tanki makes the most amount of money (pusher).

Your enjoyment (or lack thereof) does not really enter the equation (addiction).

Stronger-willed players find battle tactics and methods to improve (coping skills).

Weaker-willed players purchase augments and other items to improve (drugs).

The continual nerf-buff-repeat updates are to continually put you in different fight-or-flight response scenarios (anxiety) to break down those battle tactics and methods (coping skills) that you have developed depending on the turret/hull/drone/arena/battle-type you have selected (life choices).

This ensures that tanki (drug lord) has a continual income stream from the w.w.p. (addicts) and by s.w.p whose (coping skills) have failed them.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

For those who think that tanki just does accidental programming (like the most recent tesla) and the reason the game balance is so awful.

[The-Operator219 88]

This has been the case since before gear score was a thing, sonny. The game falls off after WO5 and beyond unless you're one of the buyers. Even then it's a toxic and spiteful game of petty revenge and running the most efficient loadout.

 

Back in my day all you had to worry about was people with lots of supplies or drugs as we called them. Now that's just baseline gameplay.