declined Introduce proper aiming for mouse controls

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

Gotta respect someone requesting more powers for their archenemy, ngl

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:46 PM, Opex-Rah said:

Gotta respect someone requesting more powers for their archenemy, ngl

So you're saying that manual aiming would be more versatile than auto-aim? Honestly, that makes sense.

But am I right in assuming that it's just not worth the resources to implement?

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:35 PM, Maf said:

But am I right in assuming that it's just not worth the resources to implement?

Maybe it will be worth it. Just going to leave this here for some reason

And just maybe to guide the discussion I'll leave a question: what do you see here?

[alkyng 3,080]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:04 AM, Kimura said:

its tanki online we're talking about. It would ACTUALLY take them 500+ man hours.

I remember before some months or a year I was seeing a moderator suggesting how hard it's and resource consuming for Tanki developers to change a single item's description in garage. Like this thing didn't honestly starts to get repetitive and irritating with every suggestion

Do YOU think that you can just simply "edit" the item's description and just correct the spelling mistake? It's actually a complicated issue that you need to... ... .. ... I'm actually not that skilled in trying to make everything difficult, its the job of lazy people.

[alkyng 3,080]

On 1/20/2024 at 4:46 PM, Opex-Rah said:

Gotta respect someone requesting more powers for their archenemy, ngl

Wow, just WoW. How removing the auto help would make these mouse users stronger? Do you know what auto help is? it's when you didn't actually point at your enemy but the system automatically register your shot for a tank. If you pointed your mouse at a tank, you will ALWAYS hit it. Also why even the need for someone to select their enemy? Both are your enemies and none of them is a wasted shot.

[Dopamine 2,161]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:53 PM, firety31 said:

Wow, just WoW. How removing the auto help would make these mouse users stronger? Do you know what auto help is? it's when you didn't actually point at your enemy but the system automatically register your shot for a tank. If you pointed your mouse at a tank, you will ALWAYS hit it. Also why even the need for someone to select their enemy? Both are your enemies and none of them is a wasted shot.

I disagree. 

There may be an enemy in front of you, and a flag carrier above, if you want to prioritize the flag carrier - tough luck.

There may be an enemy and a dead body/spawning tank in front, you want to shoot over the obstacles - again, tough luck.

 

Now sure, if you play with railgun and only care about your kill count and not the actual game objective, then fair enough, kill is a kill. That does not apply to everyone though (or at least I hope so).

[Son_Goku 514]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:53 PM, firety31 said:

Wow, just WoW. How removing the auto help would make these mouse users stronger? Do you know what auto help is? it's when you didn't actually point at your enemy but the system automatically register your shot for a tank. If you pointed your mouse at a tank, you will ALWAYS hit it. Also why even the need for someone to select their enemy? Both are your enemies and none of them is a wasted shot.

Not vertical aim assist would not make us stronger but having a moving crosshair certainly would. Also funny how you guys complain about mouse being point and click, and then suggest such a feature which makes it even more point and same click. Lol.

I play pretty much only Railgun Master and I must say, that sometimes I wouldn't mind having a crosshair that lets me aim vertically manually, since some shots on different elevations can become a bit tricky as of now. By the way, there are games that are noticeably faster than Tanki, that have manual vertical aiming only, and everyone is doing perfectly fine over there. It wouldn't be as much of a nerf as you hope it would.

If this gets implemented for whatever reason, mouse controls will be an even more natural way of aiming than keyboard controls, and it would make keyboard even more obsolete than it already is. Since it would be so different, I would see even less reasons to keep keyboard controls.

[Dopamine 2,161]

On 1/20/2024 at 6:15 PM, Son_Goku said:

I would see even less reasons to keep keyboard controls.

Im not gonna lie, removing keyboard controls would really make me reconsider staying in this game, as ridiculous as that may sound.

I've come to realize, and I dont mean it in a bad way, that a big part of what has kept me playing tanki for so long, is the ability to play it on a laptop, anywhere - on a sofa, in bed, etc. without the need of a mouse (Yes Im lazy). Because lets be real, tanki cannot compete with many titles in the area of graphics, story, immersion... It's just a simple game you can play wherever you want.

If I decide to play something on a desktop, I choose some driving simulator like Beam.NG, Forza, eurotruck and play that with a steering wheel, or have some fun in VR shooters like Half Life Alyx, for example.

But those are not games I would play daily, far from that.

Now with Tanki and all its mechanics aimed to keep you play daily (passes, events, missions), that wouldn't mesh well with me, had mouse controls been mandatory.

 

(And if you wonder, no, mobile gaming is not for me either).

[DMR 676]

Honestly, the camera angle should get nerfed, even if your tank faces the same direction as the enemy (basically you don't see it normally), the camera rotation is as fast as crisis and you can basically immediately see the enemy (if you're a mouse player, you'll understand). The camera angle rotate so fast although your gun won't rotate as fast.

[alkyng 3,080]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:06 PM, frederik123456 said:

There may be an enemy in front of you, and a flag carrier above, if you want to prioritize the flag carrier - tough luck.

Flying monkeys don't care who they land their shot on, they're lucky if they hit someone. Not a massive difference which tank the auto aim decides to shot for them

On 1/20/2024 at 8:06 PM, frederik123456 said:

you play with railgun and only care about your kill count and not the actual game objective,

yes that's me, sigh..

On 1/20/2024 at 8:15 PM, Son_Goku said:

It wouldn't be as much of a nerf as you hope it would.

I don't care. It should've been done either way. Whether it will be a huge or minor nerf, they have to aim precisely at their enemy which isn't even hard for mouse, pointing my mouse at the small window X is harder than aiming a tank. Why ever the need to give them an auto help for this?

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:06 PM, Opex-Rah said:

And just maybe to guide the discussion I'll leave a question: what do you see here?

Thanks for the video. That looks like an early demo of a game that's suspiciously similar to Tanki in many ways, but has proper shooter-style aiming using mouse controls.

It's pretty much exactly how I envisioned this idea, and it even has the issues I expected to see in a 3rd person shooter, where the turret/gun sometimes shoots an obstacle even though the crosshair was pointing at the enemy (e.g. at 8:37). This is fine in games where the camera is placed close to the player character, but in Tanki you can place the camera into almost a birds eye view of the tank, making control without aito-aim highly impractical. So if this were implemented in Tanki, I imagine the camera would have to be locked in one position behind the tank.

[Opex-Rah 5,375]

On 1/21/2024 at 12:22 AM, Maf said:

...So if this were implemented in Tanki, I imagine the camera would have to be locked in one position behind the tank.

Basically, a different game. Cause that is what I saw playing Gear Up back in the day (btw it flopped) — a curious game with many cool ideas, but so different.

Yeah, we tried this style of controls when we were working on mouse controls back in the day. The camera did not make any sense. So we changed the camera. Then it was not Tanki anymore.

Interesting how it took more than 8 years for players to become proficient with mobile controls on mass to the point such topics started to pop up.

[Maf 32,300]

Okay, so the original idea is to nerf mouse users by replacing the vertical auto-aim with fully manual aiming using a crosshair. According to Opex, this would not only buff mouse users instead of nerfing them, but it would also turn Tanki Online into a completely different game, which would not be received well. Therefore it's not feasible even if we ignore the complications of actually implementing this change, so I'm changing the idea status to declined.

@firety31, you seem to be suggesting a different change, where, instead of mouse controls getting a whole new crosshair aiming system, the vertical auto-aim gets completely turned off instead. While this wouldn't take 500 hours to implement, it would "nerf" mouse users to a point of making the game completely unplayable for anyone that doesn't use a melee range turret, so this version of the idea isn't feasible either.

[Blutaar 1,904]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:04 AM, Kimura said:

Oh wait you're naming all the "convenient and practical" features yourself. Well then if everyone is so happy about mouse controls why are you not happy when I use my "convenient and practical" augments called Hyperspeed, Helios, Faust, Crisis etc.? Everyone has access to that just get lucky and they do make your performance better

On 1/20/2024 at 6:52 AM, firety31 said:

We ain't gonna cycle back to the classic OP gear gatekeeping now. Updating keyboard control system to more convenient controls ain't the same as intended overpowered game features and mechanics like overpowered augments - to add, you don't need mouse-controls to perform above-average with stated augments; the other way around, however, mouse controls do not necessarily make one a better player. And we both know one 'feature' is less accessible than the other one. Fine if you wanna stand by your opinion, but at least don't make false comparisons. 

Also, I am always happy to see you, no matter your augment. Even if your KD is <0,05, or if you use keyboard controls, I'll still love you regardless 

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/22/2024 at 12:39 PM, Blutaar said:

Updating keyboard control system to more convenient controls ain't the same as intended overpowered game features and mechanics like overpowered augments

aren't a million camera tricks you can do with mouse controls and other non-sense not "intended overpowered game features and machanics" ?

They easily could've locked the camera from being able to move without you turning your turret (instantly overpowered and clearly intentional feature that makes predicting the enemy almost impossible but who cares since you probably don't even think and just go "see enemy = boom").

I couldn't care less how OP or UP mouse controls are as long as myGreat China Wall of skill that took 11 years to build is carrying me through the game no matter what equipment and controls I use.

I used mouse controls. Took me 3 minutes to reach my peak (i'm performing the same as a month ago after 3 minutes) easy 1st place no matter what.

I still rely on keyboard controls since they allow me to do way more even if the "features" are less OP or convenient because your reaction speed doesn't exist. I rely on mouse controls when I need to use flying monkey to bob and weave 5 km above the ground to cap a flag in ASL. 

Oh and since it seems to constantly trigger mouse noobs... I use flying monkey (paladin, crusader, hopper, ares) with keyboard controls because i'm too lazy to change controls sometimes and still get undisputed 1st place in battle . People do not like the fact that I turn turret while using flying monkey so they call me words that would get me banned from this forum if I decided to give examples. 

[Son_Goku 514]

On 1/22/2024 at 1:38 PM, Kimura said:

Oh and since it seems to constantly trigger mouse noobs...

It doesn't trigger me personally, I actually find it quite amusing how much you all seem to hate the normal way of aiming a weapon in an online game. It's also pretty funny how you always talk about the "flying monkeys" when referring to the mouse controls, while seemingly forgetting that a lot of players use mouse with tracked hulls, because mouse is simply more comfortable to use.

But go on then, use the "flying monkeys" with your beloved keyboard controls, no one is stopping you.

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:56 PM, Son_Goku said:

It's also pretty funny how you always talk about the "flying monkeys" when referring to the mouse controls, while seemingly forgetting that a lot of players use mouse with tracked hulls, because mouse is simply more comfortable to use.

Hmm I wonder why nobody seems to care about tracked hulls even if they use mouse controls but the 'Flying Monkey' is called that and has many other names attached to it. Can you tell me why is that kind sir?

On 1/22/2024 at 6:56 PM, Son_Goku said:

I actually find it quite amusing how much you all seem to hate the normal way of aiming a weapon in an online game.

Except this game was made with only keyboard controls in mind and is pretty unique compared to your generic fortnite, TF, CoD etc. that are basically the same thing. 

 

On 1/22/2024 at 6:56 PM, Son_Goku said:

It doesn't trigger me personally

But it sure does other "mouse pros"  I saw so many slurs and naughty words directed at me only because I destroyed them while turning my turret while using flying monkey

Keyboard people only hate flying monkey for obvious reasons and couldn't care less about mouse except a couple that sees it as OP. Never saw people who see mouse controls as OP call mouse control users things I shall not say.

On 1/22/2024 at 6:56 PM, Son_Goku said:

But go on then, use the "flying monkeys" with your beloved keyboard controls, no one is stopping you.

I can feel the saltiness from the screen  LMAOOOO

(Hello random Tank forum mod that's reading this and already making up how to change my next comment to sound like I'm the hero of the village again  )

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:51 PM, Soothing said:

 the camera rotation is as fast as crisis and you can basically immediately see the enemy (if you're a mouse player, you'll understand). The camera angle rotate so fast although your gun won't rotate as fast.

Trigger warning:
 

Spoiler

 

Do note, majority of mouse players don't even use the turret lock feature, small qol, helps those use it, though not really needed as such. Wouldn't care if they removed the ability to lock the turret, only a few would prolly be annoyed, comes in handy for some selfies etc, but easily playable without it.

[Son_Goku 514]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:23 PM, Kimura said:

Except this game was made with only keyboard controls in mind and is pretty unique compared to your generic fortnite, TF, CoD etc. that are basically the same thing.

You and all the other keyboard lovers just have no idea. Maybe you're the little timmy after all

Little sidenote to the devs, I would love the moving cursor

[Positive 1,136]

On 1/22/2024 at 7:32 PM, Son_Goku said:

 

It's interesting cuz in that video at 2:45 they say: "mouse controls should be comfortable but not superior to keyboard"
Yet mouse controls does currently possess advantages that keyboard does not have.

[Son_Goku 514]

On 1/22/2024 at 7:45 PM, Positive said:

It's interesting cuz in that video at 2:45 they say: "mouse controls should be comfortable but not superior to keyboard"
Yet mouse controls does currently possess advantages that keyboard does not have.

You can't have the camera behave in a different way. If it locks to your turret's rotation you end up needing not just one, but multiple desks to be able to turn around just once, lol. How it currently is implemented is the only and the proper way to to have mouse controls in Tanki. Mouse is better because keyboard controls are simply a stupid and outdated way to control the turret, that's really all there is. But some just don't want to accept it

Before I played mouse there were no mouse controls and I had also been playing with keyboard controls for a couple years. All I can say is that I'm glad they added mouse the way it currently is. Look at World of Tanks and War Thunder, pretty similar gameplay and exactly the same mouse controls (besides the vertical aiming). And no one is complaining, because it just is the proper way to aim.

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:32 PM, Son_Goku said:

You and all the other keyboard lovers just have no idea. Maybe you're the little timmy after all

so adding a completely new never seen before (in this game... in this game...) feature 6 YEARS which is entering old age for tanki type game is now a feature that was intended when the game was being developed 6-10 years ago (pre-release...)? Ok big bob

 

@Positive they said they'll add contracts 2 years ago at this point. 99% of the things they say actually never come so you shouldn't really trust them

[Son_Goku 514]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:04 PM, Kimura said:

so adding a completely new never seen before (in this game... in this game...) feature 6 YEARS which is entering old age for tanki type game is now a feature that was intended when the game was being developed 6-10 years ago (pre-release...)? Ok big bob

Did you not watch the video I sent? Let me quote it for you: "The idea of mouse controls in Tanki has been around since the game was first introduced. There was no way practical way of implementing it in Flash." That's why it took so long. Not my words, that's what literally the developers said.

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/22/2024 at 9:07 PM, Son_Goku said:

Did you not watch the video I sent? Let me quote it for you: "The idea of mouse controls in Tanki has been around since the game was first introduced. There was no way practical way of implementing it in Flash." That's why it took so long. Not my words, that's what literally the developers said.

oh well silly me. looks like even back in 2015 it took them a century to introduce a simple feature. you got me. goku solos

[Son_Goku 514]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:13 PM, Kimura said:

oh well silly me. looks like even back in 2015 it took them a century to introduce a simple feature. you got me. goku solos

Mate, the game's foundation was made in 2009 by just two developers. As they said in the video, they struggled to implement it, probably because of missing technology in old flash and I can also imagine that some of the old code was hard to work with. You gotta chill a bit bro

They're also humans like us, not some code generating AI. Especially not in 2009-2015.