Healing's Splash damage Kills my teammates

[Wry 93]

The splash damage of thunder nano tech could accidentally kill my teammates when they are against a blaster hull augment, so if my teammate would die against a blaster and I shot him to heal but the splash damage of this shot killed the blaster guy, my teammate will die because the splash damage took effect before the healing. 

Now it is not realistic if the splash took effect before the shot itself, because the splash cannot happen before the shot. The splash is a result of the shot, therefore the shot must happen first in order for the splash to exist.

If my teammate health is 100 and I shot him to heal near a light hull blaster augment (the splash damage killed the blaster) he should not die because of that 1500 damage the blaster will cause, but he will get 1800 healing instead and the 1500 damage will take place after the healing, so he will have 100+1800-1500= 400 Health left.

[Maf 32,300]

It's a minor issue that rarely affects gameplay, but should still be fixed nonetheless.

You should post it in I&S. It took them three years to add auto-aim on nanotech thunder, so maybe in another three we'll get yours implemented too!

[Dopamine 2,161]

Good ol' blaster.
I guess a similar thing happens if you shoot an enemy that you would normally destroy, but it sets of a blaster nearby via splash and so the kill is attributed to the blaster player instead of you? 
(Could only happen in DM ofc).

[Wry 93]

After looking into it I figure out the cause of the issue and another related issues as well. The game engine does not handle each projectile and shot independently, meaning the engine always look at the source of the shot/projectile (the player) to register information about the shot. This has been in the game for ages but it does not make sense for me. 

So for the engine if a shot is fired he judge it based on the source of it with no regard of the shot being independent from the source once it has been fired. To see that you can equip Twins Heavy plasmagun augment and fire a shot without using Boosted damage and while the projectile is travailing to the target use Boosted damage, now from a logical order the shot should not deal boosted damage because it was fired without boosted damage, but the game engine still make that shot deal boosted damage. Same thing applies if you fire a shot and pick a Boosted damage box from the ground before the shot reach the target. This desync happens a lot when using Crises drone. So in theory, If you fire a shot with mk1 turret and before it reach the target you upgraded the turret to mk7 the damage dealt to the target will be from mk7 turret not mk1 the shot was fired from.  

Another situtation where you can see this desync happen is when using any turret or augment with splash damage effect. If you are low and you have boosted damage and you damage an enemy while being in range of the splash damage, the splash damage will kill you and your shot which was fired with boosted damage effect will deal normal damage because the game engine judge the shot by the state you are in (you being dead because of the splash so you have no boosted damage effect therefore that shot won't have it as well). Now in a logical order, that shot was fired before me being dead because i died because of it, therefore, me dying is a result of the shot so the shot should still deal the full boosted damage since it happens first and i die because of that full boosted splash damage not the normal splash damage.

I hope I was able to make it clear.

[Maf 32,300]

On 4/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, Dopamine said:

I guess a similar thing happens if you shoot an enemy that you would normally destroy, but it sets of a blaster nearby via splash and so the kill is attributed to the blaster player instead of you? 
(Could only happen in DM ofc).

Interesting theory, I'd like to test it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 4/8/2025 at 12:46 AM, Wry said:

Another situtation where you can see this desync happen is when using any turret or augment with splash damage effect. If you are low and you have boosted damage and you damage an enemy while being in range of the splash damage, the splash damage will kill you and your shot which was fired with boosted damage effect will deal normal damage because the game engine judge the shot by the state you are in (you being dead because of the splash so you have no boosted damage effect therefore that shot won't have it as well). Now in a logical order, that shot was fired before me being dead because i died because of it, therefore, me dying is a result of the shot so the shot should still deal the full boosted damage since it happens first and i die because of that full boosted splash damage not the normal splash damage.

Regarding this in particular. I remember about 2 years ago for projectile splash damage turrets, there was like a 50/50 chance of the splash damage being applied before the self-damage and vice versa. Whenever I, an enemy or an ally got themselves into this situation, I would look to see which person got out lucky from the interaction (this interaction decided the outcome of countless battles near the end). Me and someone else wondered if ping had anything to do with it. At some point, that was silently changed and now all projectile splash turrets apply the self-damage before the splash. Only hitscan applications like Gauss' salvo apply the splash before. 

[Wry 93]

On 4/8/2025 at 2:07 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

there was like a 50/50 chance of the splash damage being applied before the self-damage and vice versa

tbh I don't remember such thing. 

On 4/8/2025 at 2:07 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Only hitscan applications like Gauss' salvo apply the splash before. 

Gauss is a weird turret, it is the only splash damage turret that does not apply splash damage when its barrel is inside an obstacle.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 4/8/2025 at 7:32 AM, Wry said:

tbh I don't remember such thing. 

Example at 0:24. 

 

 

On 4/8/2025 at 7:32 AM, Wry said:

tbh I don't remember such thing. 

Gauss is a weird turret, it is the only splash damage turret that does not apply splash damage when its barrel is inside an obstacle.

What do you mean?

[Wry 93]

On 4/8/2025 at 3:42 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Example at 0:24. 

 

Oh I see. That does prove that the devs are aware of it then I wonder why they did not fix it yet.

 

On 4/8/2025 at 3:42 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

What do you mean?

 

[Maf 32,300]

So we tested the splash damage in DM. Turns out if you have two tanks on low health next to one another and one of them has Blaster, if you shoot the tank without Blaster, you only get the kill on the other tank, but that other tank gets the kill because his Blaster damage (from him dying to your splash damage through the first tank) is calculated before your direct damage. Nonsensical mechanic, but I guess it doesn't make much of a difference in the long run and only nerds like us notice it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 4/8/2025 at 9:01 AM, Wry said:

Oh I see. That does prove that the devs are aware of it then I wonder why they did not fix it yet.

Blaster's kill ordering itself before its own death was a thing since it was first a drone. The simplest explanation is that doing it like that probably was easiest/least buggy way for them to implement it. My further assumption for why it's like that is to give Blaster more opportunities to show that it is doing something and giving the player more satisfaction for intentionally picking/upgrading that drone out of almost 20 others, and that augment out of many others. 

 

My counterpoint to "fixing" this would be that MMMonster golds only happen for like 1 week over the entire year, and that Nanotech Shells in its current state is quite stupid enough on its own, it really does not need to be changed for multiple other people just to get a marginal QOL adjustment for much fewer players. Blaster ordering itself first also does 2 things:

1. Prevents players from intentionally gaining faster Overdrive charging when dying while their Overdrive cooldown is active, in normal battles. 
2. Rewards certain players (particularly melee turrets) for damaging and dealing the killing blow to Juggernauts while in the radius of the Blaster explosion while their Overdrive cooldown was active. 

Both of these together sound contradictory, I agree. But one of them happens with anyone in any battle mode while the other happens in a specific game mode whose objective is centred around a specific tank. They added Blaster to Juggernaut knowing exactly how it worked. You can argue the people dealing killing blows to Juggernauts within the Blaster radius deserve something for having their momentum suddenly upended from dying to the explosion. 

[Wry 93]

On 4/8/2025 at 11:58 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

it really does not need to be changed for multiple other people just to get a marginal QOL adjustment for much fewer players.

The root of the issue is not just blaster or specific for thunder nanotech. The issue affect every projectile turret and augment whether there is a splash effect or not.

1. If your Boosted damage ran out while the projectile shot did not hit the target yet, it won't deal Boosted damage despite it being fired with Boosted damage. 

2. If you fire a projectile shot without Boosted damage and before it hits the target you either used Boosted damage or picked it up, your shot will deal Boosted damage despite it being fired without Boosted damage (the opposite of the first situation).

3. The damage of a projectile shot won't have a Boosted damage If you self-destruct by the splash of that shot while damaging an enemy, despite the shot that killed you being fired with Boosted damage (Thunder will deal 900 damage while it is supposed to deal 1800 damage).

4. As a result of situation 3, the self splash damage is calculated in a logical order but not when it is damaging an enemy. (Mammoth has 4000hp and each thunder shot deal 900 damage so Mammoth can withstand 3 shots which is 4000 - 2700 = 1300HP left, now that 1300HP won't be enough to withstand a Boosted damage shot because it will deal 1800 damage, but here where the desync happen, if you use Boosted damage at 1300HP you will self-destruct because of that 1800 damage but your shot will only deal 900 damage to the enemy despite the Boosted damage you took, so you wasted your 1300HP while you just could ignore using Boosted damage and deal 2 more shots to the enemy each will deal 900 damage so 1800 in total instead of 900 with Boosted damage).

With Boosted damage 4000HP will be divided as follows: = 1800 + 1800 +900 (desync) = 4500 damage dealt.
Without Boosted damage 4000HP will be divided as follows: = 900 + 900 + 900 + 900 + 900 = 4500 damage dealt

Now in a logical order the damage dealt with Boosted damage should be 5400 (1800+1800+1800), but as of now using Boosted damage does not matter in terms of the total amount of damage taken in relation to the damage dealt and can be worse than without using Boosted damage if you use Boosted damage in your last shot (the shot that will self-destruct you), (it will deal Boosted damage to you and normal damage to the enemy).

5. Blaster desync with nanotech and desync In DM mode.

Edited April 9 by Wry

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 4/8/2025 at 7:32 AM, Wry said:

tbh I don't remember such thing.

When I was using Destroyer to find the updated damage coefficient with Viking OD, I noticed that on most of my shots (not all), it applied the splash damage first before self-damage. No wonder it felt like I was always losing the scenario against Destroyers at melee range in normal MM. They get to have the splash applied before. 

 

[Wry 93]

On 4/30/2025 at 4:05 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

When I was using Destroyer to find the updated damage coefficient with Viking OD, I noticed that on most of my shots (not all), it applied the splash damage first before self-damage. No wonder it felt like I was always losing the scenario against Destroyers at melee range in normal MM. They get to have the splash applied before. 

 

This inconsistent splash damage has to be solved for every splash damage turret.