Let's Discuss Thunder!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Do I really have to convince people that Sledgehammer Rounds for Thunder is OP; if not OP, then unbalanced in a positive way for Thunder? Like seriously, it's letting you shoot a lot faster just for maybe a 100-250 average damage decrease. Why are people saying this alteration is trash?

 

Here's an example of one. It's not a good example of what I'm trying to convey but here it is. 

 

 

Deadmau5 was the Sledgehammer Thunder. Coupled with me healing him from time to time, he was able to get 37 kills and no deaths. While I was with him, I would look at how fast he took down unprotected enemies and enemies with double armour. It shoos almost like M4 Smoky with only about a 200 damage decrease per shot. He probably had Thunder M3.5 but let's assume he had M4. At mid-range, he would be doing about 830-900 damage on average per shot. If you put that side by side with an unaltered Thunder, the sledgehammer rounds would kill their opponent faster. The only thing that Sledgehammer really does is make you go out of the new Maximum Damage Range so you wouldn't be able to potentially one-shot unprotected M4 light hulls. 

 

If stats aren't enough to convince you then just being a high rank and looking at what the high-rank Thunders are using, you'd notice something. 70% of high-rank Thunders I encounter have the Sledgehammer alteration. I wonder why that is? Maybe because they realise they get better results from it? Or maybe because they know it's an upgrade in the form of an alteration? I guess we'll never know. 

 

In high-rank DMs, almost all the Thunders in there are Sledgehammers. They get to shoot faster but they lost a little bit of damage, that's a win for them since it means they can kill-steal more efficiently now. 

 

Honestly, anytime a Sledgehammer Thunder starts shooting me from behind and I'm in the open, I just accept death. there's nothing I can really do being a melee or short ranged turret because the Thunder could just drive away from me while shooting me like a goddamn Smoky. 

 

Players need to see that this is an upgrade. It helps in 1 v 1 supply fights because you can interrupt a Repair Kit's healing earlier and save yourself a shot compared to unaltered Thunder.  

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Do I really have to convince people that Sledgehammer Rounds for Thunder is OP; if not OP, then unbalanced in a positive way for Thunder? Like seriously, it's letting you shoot a lot faster just for maybe a 100-250 average damage decrease. Why are people saying this alteration is trash?

 

Here's an example of one. It's not a good example of what I'm trying to convey but here it is. 

 

 

Deadmau5 was the Sledgehammer Thunder. Coupled with me healing him from time to time, he was able to get 37 kills and no deaths. While I was with him, I would look at how fast he took down unprotected enemies and enemies with double armour. It shoos almost like M4 Smoky with only about a 200 damage decrease per shot. He probably had Thunder M3.5 but let's assume he had M4. At mid-range, he would be doing about 830-900 damage on average per shot. If you put that side by side with an unaltered Thunder, the sledgehammer rounds would kill their opponent faster. The only thing that Sledgehammer really does is make you go out of the new Maximum Damage Range so you wouldn't be able to potentially one-shot unprotected M4 light hulls. 

 

If stats aren't enough to convince you then just being a high rank and looking at what the high-rank Thunders are using, you'd notice something. 70% of high-rank Thunders I encounter have the Sledgehammer alteration. I wonder why that is? Maybe because they realise they get better results from it? Or maybe because they know it's an upgrade in the form of an alteration? I guess we'll never know. 

 

In high-rank DMs, almost all the Thunders in there are Sledgehammers. They get to shoot faster but they lost a little bit of damage, that's a win for them since it means they can kill-steal more efficiently now. 

 

Honestly, anytime a Sledgehammer Thunder starts shooting me from behind and I'm in the open, I just accept death. there's nothing I can really do being a melee or short ranged turret because the Thunder could just drive away from me while shooting me like a goddamn Smoky. 

 

Players need to see that this is an upgrade. It helps in 1 v 1 supply fights because you can interrupt a Repair Kit's healing earlier and save yourself a shot compared to unaltered Thunder.

 

If you were a true thunder user, you would understand why. 150 to 200 is a lot of potential damage lost when it comes to thunder. And posting a screenshot of the result in one of the worst game modes in the game just tells us that it's probably only good for spawn killing.

 

Post it in a real game mode like DM and maybe I might believe you. ;)

[StarFinder_WGS 0]

Is Sub-Caliber rounds worth it? My M0 thunder is fully upgraded and I'm not sure if I should give up the splash damage for penetration + extra range (I think.) 

[Heles 9,220]

Is Sub-Caliber rounds worth it? My M0 thunder is fully upgraded and I'm not sure if I should give up the splash damage for penetration + extra range (I think.) 

It doesnt give u extra range but extra impact force instead.

But personality i dont like it. I prefer splash over penetration.  

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I don't know what alteration people are using but thunder is strong... even with 45% protection. Vulcan has also got strong recently.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I don't know what alteration people are using but thunder is strong... even with 45% protection. Vulcan has also got strong recently.

Sledgehammer.

 

Incendiary.  

They need to do something about Incendiary as it raises damage on Vulcan and Smoky (with no drawback on smoky) and you need 2 different modules to protect yourself against 1 turret.  Smoky alt should have either a range nerf or damage nerf - Vulcan comes with 10% damage nerf.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Is Sub-Caliber rounds worth it? My M0 thunder is fully upgraded and I'm not sure if I should give up the splash damage for penetration + extra range (I think.)

 

It is worth it TBH. I was using M2 Dictator-Thunder with Sub-Caliber round and.... no more suicide happens when I'm next to the target. Oh... and of course, slap off enemy's aim easier. Before using it.... it repeatedly making me to commit harakiri.

 

Sledgehammer.

 

Incendiary.  

They need to do something about Incendiary as it raises damage on Vulcan and Smoky (with no drawback on smoky) and you need 2 different modules to protect yourself against 1 turret.  Smoky alt should have either a range nerf or damage nerf - Vulcan comes with 10% damage nerf.

Um... in my opinion, Vulcan's Incendiary Band should keep its 10% damage nerf, only if you are overheating. When no overheating.... normal 600 DPS.

[enri_chill 265]

Um... in my opinion, Vulcan's Incendiary Band should keep its 10% damage nerf, only if you are overheating. When no overheating.... normal 600 DPS.

Absolutely agree with you on this! Once I am overheating, then nerf the damage 10% from vulcan and let the afterburn commence

[wolverine848 13,097]

Absolutely agree with you on this! Once I am overheating, then nerf the damage 10% from vulcan and let the afterburn commence

Making it even more OP.  Once targets are hit by Vulcan's burning damage they don't last long.

 

The fact that Vulcan with this alt delivers two types of damage adds fuel to the fire (pun intended).

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Making it even more OP.  Once targets are hit by Vulcan's burning damage they don't last long.

 

The fact that Vulcan with this alt delivers two types of damage adds fuel to the fire (pun intended).

Hold your horses. If we say normal 600 DPS with the burning damage at the same time. Now you can call that OP.

 

What if.... a Vulcan decided not to overheat while having the Incendiary Band equipped. In some cases, they only want to fire a period of time without overheating....

Absolutely agree with you on this! Once I am overheating, then nerf the damage 10% from vulcan and let the afterburn commence

Yeah... 600 DPS with burning damage will be mad OP.

[enri_chill 265]

Making it even more OP.  Once targets are hit by Vulcan's burning damage they don't last long.

 

The fact that Vulcan with this alt delivers two types of damage adds fuel to the fire (pun intended).

It wasn't OP before the damage nerf. All I am saying is that return the damage to normal until the incendiary rounds begin (i.e., after 12+ seconds of firing). Once the Incendiary rounds being and the vulcan is starting to overheat (i.e., afterburn is kicking in on the victim tank too), then nerf the vulcan damage 10% since it will be inducing afterburn on the receiving tank. 

 

There are times that I would prefer to use the vulcan and not commit suicide...that should still be an option with the Alt. Now you are penalized for NOT overheating your vulcan. Just seems to limit the game play too much. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

It wasn't OP before the damage nerf. All I am saying is that return the damage to normal until the incendiary rounds begin (i.e., after 12+ seconds of firing). Once the Incendiary rounds being and the vulcan is starting to overheat (i.e., afterburn is kicking in on the victim tank too), then nerf the vulcan damage 10% since it will be inducing afterburn on the receiving tank. 

 

There are times that I would prefer to use the vulcan and not commit suicide...that should still be an option with the Alt. Now you are penalized for NOT overheating your vulcan. Just seems to limit the game play too much. 

It was VERY OP before the damage nerf. 

 

With the damage nerf came the reduction in the heating rate when firing at an enemy while overheating. Before the nerf in general, you could have ignited an enemy to maximum temperature in approximately 1.25 seconds when overheating with that alteration. If you were touched for 1 second and you didn't have Fire protection, you were dead. 

 

Now, it takes 5 seconds to reach maximum temperature + a damage nerf. 

[shafter9 156]

Is thunder m3 any good? Are any of the alterations beneficial? I’m trying to decide what kit to save for; I’m thinking I’ll either get raiden, jackhammer or sniper.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Is thunder m3 any good? Are any of the alterations beneficial? I’m trying to decide what kit to save for; I’m thinking I’ll either get raiden, jackhammer or sniper.

I have m2.8 thunder. It has its ups and downs, but ain't OP nor UP. It's actually quite balanced. If you like using thunder, then I'd definitely recommend getting it m3.

[enri_chill 265]

It was VERY OP before the damage nerf. 

 

With the damage nerf came the reduction in the heating rate when firing at an enemy while overheating. Before the nerf in general, you could have ignited an enemy to maximum temperature in approximately 1.25 seconds when overheating with that alteration. If you were touched for 1 second and you didn't have Fire protection, you were dead. 

 

Now, it takes 5 seconds to reach maximum temperature + a damage nerf. 

Do you mean the nerf that came on the 5-6 day of the alteration?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Do you mean the nerf that came on the 5-6 day of the alteration?

Yes. 

[Truthteller 4,204]

Used Sledgehammer alteration on another account and it is much better than standard thunder at short and LONG range - Standard thunder reloads much slower and I think Sledgehammer reloads the same or slight faster pace than smoky

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Used Sledgehammer alteration on another account and it is much better than standard thunder at short and LONG range - Standard thunder reloads much slower and I think Sledgehammer reloads the same or slight faster pace than smoky

Slightly slower. M4 Smoky reloads in 1.5 seconds. M4 Sledgehammer Thunder reloads in 1.61 seconds. 

 

I agree it's much better than Standard Thunder. 

 

The thing that's irking me is that the devs haven't told us "what exactly is maximum damage". It says that the maximum damage range is decreased by 95%. We know that the maximum damage range is the range at which you have to be in in order to have a chance at obtaining the maximum damage possible for your turret. Minimum damage range is the range at which you have to be in in order to have a chance at obtaining at least the minimum direct damage possible within the given direct damage range. 

I'm not sure if you'd be confused by that because using "maximum damage range" and "damage range" like that is confusing. 

 

Does the damage below the maximum damage depend on the range at which you're in between maximum and minimum damage range? On the test Server, I had seemed to be hitting in the 830s and 840s constantly when I and the enemy stayed the same range. If the question that I asked above had been true, then Sledgehammer is even more OP than we thought. Keep in mind that this is assuming the situation in the question above is true. 

 

There is a lot of stuff that the devs refuse or don't bother to give us and it only confuses the players who try to help other unaware players understand. Are they purposefully keeping us in the dark as much as possible?

[Truthteller 4,204]

 

Yeah it is more OP than I thought, before I thought the -95% damage meant that damage is decreased -95% at long range but then I just realized it was maximum damage RANGE, so I think that it means that if it is 651-900 damage for thunder it will do 651 damage out of 5% range, so it does less damage but reloads 30% faster which means it is better than standard thunder at all ranges

[enri_chill 265]

Yes. 

I agree. The first iteration of the incendiary alt was incredibly OP for almost a week. It needed a nerf. One game I had 40 kills and 1 death:) The most recent nerf, however, limits the normal use of vulcan and penalizes all normal shooting. My point earlier was leave the vulcan damage as normal (post original nerf; pre-second nerf) until the turret overheats. At that point, then reduce the vulcan damage (like it is currently doing) but add the afterburn. This allows for a much more balanced turret that is not OP. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by enri_chill

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Has this become the second discussion topic for Vulcan?

[enri_chill 265]

Has this become the second discussion topic for Vulcan?

Oops! Sorry about that. If a mod could move this over it would be great:)

[Nicola_M 1,563]

Based on Congo Spider's view of the Sledgehammer alt, I took a gamble on it for my M2 Thunder 3/10.

Quite a respectable score - joint 2nd place, 2x flags, 6 stars and a gold box.

Much better than I thought an M2 Thunder would do.

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Nicola_M

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

 

Based on Congo Spider's view of the Sledgehammer alt, I took a gamble on it for my M2 Thunder 3/10.

Quite a respectable score - joint 2nd place, 2x flags, 6 stars and a gold box.

Much better than I thought an M2 Thunder would do.

 

 

Heh, I wasn't expecting anyone in the high ranks to use it with their M2 Thunder tbh. If it were M3 or maybe M3.5, it would have probably dominated but your score is fine. I wonder if any of your teammates called you out for using an M2 at your rank. 

 

With M2 Thunder, I'd expect players to get a lot of assists but when it's M4, they're the one dealing the killing blow almost every time. 

 

I won't play with Thunder though. I made a promise not to play with Thunder on both of my two accounts. The promise was really made for TheCongoSpider but I extended it to my alternate account as well. 

[Nicola_M 1,563]

Heh, I wasn't expecting anyone in the high ranks to use it with their M2 Thunder tbh. If it were M3 or maybe M3.5, it would have probably dominated but your score is fine. I wonder if any of your teammates called you out for using an M2 at your rank. 

 

Not used it in months and wanted a sniping turret but it was the only thing I had that wasn't M0.  Not enough crystals to buy the M3 so gonna MU it as quick as I can without buying.

 

No one mentioned it, but then just as well half the team these days speaks Russian....