Watch all the battles you want with a 5-10 min delay and 100-500 crystals per view

[IronElves 980]

 

 

Thanks you all for your feedback your names are credited on the first post.

 

Thank you,

[rjwazup 41]

how about you can only have a pass for it and it cost as much as score multiplier but last for 7 days

[Guest Maserati]

Hazel-Rah said that spectator mode for players is planned, but will not be out for a long while.

Most of you guys interpreted it wrong.

---

The future spectators mode is going to have many differences to the current spectators mode. We can tell this by a quote - said by game developer,

 

 

"Just place a reminder that nothing is set into stone and final version can be different."

 

 

This quote tells us it may or may not happen as they way you think. It is planned to be different so its rules can not be abused, it is going to designed for personal uses so it will not actually be spectators mode but more of a mini spectators mode. And it ain't certain that it will be implanted into the game with so much other key updates needed to be tested... It is most likely to hit in 2016 - as unity will be done, new supplies would be done, and more other details.

This tells us it will be totally different and it can not be as special as the actual spectators mode; it will also not be special due to everyone single person having their own mini spectator. And there will be many bugs in the mini spectator so it has to be just right and will require a massive testing - by the testers.

To conclude, there is no point to beg for spectators view as the times going to ticking an tocking for a hell of a time; in that time you can: make good quality videos; contribute to the community; enjoy the game, and other sorts of stuff...  The planned spectators mode is most likely to be not as grand as the current situation - the mini spectators mode will be more used as a personal viewer.

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

 

Thank you,

 

You are welcome  :)

 

 

how about you can only have a pass for it and it cost as much as score multiplier but last for 7 days

 

That is a good idea too , it's suggested in the main post and this post too http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=243417&do=findComment&comment=4329933

 

thank you for your feedback. 

 It is most likely to hit in 2016 - as unity will be done, new supplies would be done, and more other details.

 

The fact that it's planned is good news on it's own as for the exact date and features no one knows when, these are the community suggestions and tanki is free to implement what they think is best for the game, it might be possible that we get it on the developers priorities list by showing that the community likes this idea. 

[Guest Maserati]

It is better to earn spectators mode, rather than beg for a mini spectators mode. Trust me, they don't need your ideas because pretty much most of them are useless and are apply to the current spectators mode, did you not interpret Hazel-Rah's post in your PM??? He meant it would not be as grand as the current spectators. We will see if the community likes this idea or the newbies starting the game.

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

It is better to earn spectators mode, rather than beg for a mini spectators mode. Trust me, they don't need your ideas because pretty much most of them are useless and are apply to the current spectators mode, did you not interpret Hazel-Rah's post in your PM??? He meant it would not be as grand as the current spectators. We will see if the community likes this idea or the newbies starting the game.

 

When i buy crystals in this game i worked hard to earn the money to buy them that is hard work. you are entitled to your opinion 

Not sure if it's relevant in this case  :D  :P .

 

Please let us stay focused on the topic idea no need to distract to personal philosophies.

[Rohrmeister 1,553]

When i buy crystals in this game i worked hard to earn the money to buy them that is hard work. you are entitled to your opinion 

Not sure if it's relevant in this case  :D  :P .

 

Please let us stay focused on the topic idea no need to distract to personal philosophies.

full agreed :)

[r_peace_no0 0]

i like ths idea

[Rohrmeister 1,553]

A delayed spectator mode would solve the problems with misuse. On the other hand Tanki would need to take measures to reduce the lag. Totalwar-11 made already a nice propsal (the sniffing servers).

I thought about a second way, and totalwar-11 agreed to have ot posted here:

 

 

Delayed Offline Spectator Mode

 

How it works:

When you attend a game, your local computer has all the informations about the battle: which tank, which position at which time, speed, direction of movement... all there.

 

So If

- the flash Tanki program on my computer would save this data in a temporary file

- then it could replay the whole battle after the battle is over

- I could look the battle from other peoples eyes (the up/down/camera would still be under mine control)

- pause/forw/back controls would be a usefull and easy thing

 

Usecases / Benefit:

- I can watch the battle from other tanks perspectives (after a battle is over / or I quit the battle early)

- I can improove myself by seeing my acting from other views

- I can learn how other players solve tactical issues

- It is nice to replay a battle I won, It is usefull to replay a battle other team won

- ass it uses only data already available on he client and only for my battles.. it has absolutely zero impact on lag

 

Difference to todays spectator mode:

Camera options (slightly limited maybe), tanki advertisement banners. things like that set the mode apart from today's spectatormode. So the talented youtubers have still somethng to go for..

 

pls comment if you have improvements on this.

[Cigara9393 339]

Not bad idea, but their is problems, still their is a lot of players who insult your team players or enemies. it's bad, same as mults, i 1 million times call mods from game with /vote and never they come, Spectator mode is great, but they should be more online and be able to give ban players who break rules. It's just my opinion. 

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

A delayed spectator mode would solve the problems with misuse. On the other hand Tanki would need to take measures to reduce the lag. Totalwar-11 made already a nice propsal (the sniffing servers).

I thought about a second way, and totalwar-11 agreed to have ot posted here:

 

 

Delayed Offline Spectator Mode

 

How it works:

When you attend a game, your local computer has all the informations about the battle: which tank, which position at which time, speed, direction of movement... all there.

 

So If

- the flash Tanki program on my computer would save this data in a temporary file

- then it could replay the whole battle after the battle is over

- I could look the battle from other peoples eyes (the up/down/camera would still be under mine control)

- pause/forw/back controls would be a usefull and easy thing

 

Usecases / Benefit:

- I can watch the battle from other tanks perspectives (after a battle is over / or I quit the battle early)

- I can improove myself by seeing my acting from other views

- I can learn how other players solve tactical issues

- It is nice to replay a battle I won, It is usefull to replay a battle other team won

- ass it uses only data already available on he client and only for my battles.. it has absolutely zero impact on lag

 

Difference to todays spectator mode:

Camera options (slightly limited maybe), tanki advertisement banners. things like that set the mode apart from today's spectatormode. So the talented youtubers have still somethng to go for..

 

pls comment if you have improvements on this.

 

Wow very clear and accurate description i updated the first post to point to your post directly .

 

There is on thing i have no clue how it works in terms of information our local flash client receives from tanki servers  "your local computer has all the informations about the battle: which tank, which position at which time, speed, direction of movement... all there" i don't know if our clients get all information about the whole battle or just the one's you can see from your camera perspective for instance if you are in rio map fighting another tank on the beach does our clients get information also about tanks that is hidden on the other side of the buildings fighting each other , they have no way of seeing us or affecting us.

 

I raise this point because it might be the case that we receive only bits of information that affects our field of view

And hence the only way to " watch the battle from other tanks perspectives (after a battle is over / or I quit the battle early)" is by downloading more data hence more bandwidth will be needed again.

 

What do you think ?

[Rohrmeister 1,553]

i don't know if our clients get all information about the whole battle or just the one's you can see from your camera perspective for instance if you are in rio map fighting another tank on the beach does our clients get information also about tanks that is hidden on the other side of the buildings fighting each other , they have no way of seeing us or affecting us.

 

What do you think ?

hi total,

A valid concern.. I took some time to think about it, and came to the conclusion, that I believe we have all the data.

 

These are my rasons that make me think so:

- on Rio you have these point where you can spot from one side of the map to the other through between the buildings. Many maps are designed like that.. this "targetability" seems to be a design criteria for the tanki maps (which are by the way pretty awsome, if some game designer reads that... I still learn ways to act and shot there, which are there "by design")

- when I die my camera flys over the map seeing a wiiiide amount of the map and many tanks. I never experienced reload issues or additional lag-effects in such a flyover

- I can drive backwards and rush into tanks which I could not see before.

- a freeze turret on a wasp can spin so fast, that the system would not be able to reload data so fast

- the dataset per tank must be pretty small (as other info like paint, tank type, turret, ... are all given in advance). So as designer I would rather give the whole data in one packet, then considering reload and additional lag issues.

 

Maybe a developer can give us some answers on that.

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

hi total,

A valid concern.. I took some time to think about it, and came to the conclusion, that I believe we have all the data.

 

These are my rasons that make me think so:

- on Rio you have these point where you can spot from one side of the map to the other through between the buildings. Many maps are designed like that.. this "targetability" seems to be a design criteria for the tanki maps (which are by the way pretty awsome, if some game designer reads that... I still learn ways to act and shot there, which are there "by design")

- when I die my camera flys over the map seeing a wiiiide amount of the map and many tanks. I never experienced reload issues or additional lag-effects in such a flyover

- I can drive backwards and rush into tanks which I could not see before.

- a freeze turret on a wasp can spin so fast, that the system would not be able to reload data so fast

- the dataset per tank must be pretty small (as other info like paint, tank type, turret, ... are all given in advance). So as designer I would rather give the whole data in one packet, then considering reload and additional lag issues.

 

Maybe a developer can give us some answers on that.

Cool ... let us keep the topic alive so that it get's more votes and maybe just maybe it gets on the developers list.

Thank you for your great feedback and have a nice day.

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

Community feedback is welcome ,don't forget to like and vote ;) 

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

Bump

[vanshajwore 324]

brilliant idea, i wonder whats so hard to implement this if the devs had done this before for mods. Why does hazel say not in near future. Maybe he will do it after unity version. Means no spec mode before next year :(

[I.WalkAlone 550]

The 5-10 minute delay is not possible because spectator mode isn't a video which is being shot. The spectator himself is changing his position accordingly. And if the position of each tank in each frame is recorded, then it will take up a lot of space in the TO servers which will cause a lot of lag and is not feasible to store.

[Rohrmeister 1,553]

The 5-10 minute delay is not possible because spectator mode isn't a video which is being shot. The spectator himself is changing his position accordingly. And if the position of each tank in each frame is recorded, then it will take up a lot of space in the TO servers which will cause a lot of lag and is not feasible to store.

right, spectator more is not a video. It is just another view on the battlefield

In order to have some minutes delay, you just have to store the things on the battlefield.. and what happens (positions, directions, speed, shoting, turret directions, .. of the tanks).

This are "just numbers", like a position is a x/y/z coordinate, a direction is a vector based on x/y/z components... just a few bytes per tank. And each time something changes (a turret is turned) a tiny data set for this tank is stored.

Believe me..the storage for such things would be very very cheap. The main problem is the act of storage itself, as the data is avainalbe in the servers - but they are already well loaded with the things they do today.

 

Therefor totalwar proposed the idea of sniffing servers, and I proposed the idea of the our clients storing the data local at our HDs.

 

Summary: solvable ;)

[I.WalkAlone 550]

right, spectator more is not a video. It is just another view on the battlefield

In order to have some minutes delay, you just have to store the things on the battlefield.. and what happens (positions, directions, speed, shoting, turret directions, .. of the tanks).

This are "just numbers", like a position is a x/y/z coordinate, a direction is a vector based on x/y/z components... just a few bytes per tank. And each time something changes (a turret is turned) a tiny data set for this tank is stored.

Believe me..the storage for such things would be very very cheap. The main problem is the act of storage itself, as the data is avainalbe in the servers - but they are already well loaded with the things they do today.

 

Therefor totalwar proposed the idea of sniffing servers, and I proposed the idea of the our clients storing the data local at our HDs.

 

Summary: solvable ;)

I highly doubt it's in bytes. Maybe the x-y-z coordinates, but there is also a lot of other stuff like props of the map , graphics and sounds. Graphics alone ought to take a few MB's of space. But still, let's assume that it takes 2 KB per tank per frame. Let's say that there are 10 tanks in the battle and you are viewing it at 60 FPS. It would amount to 1200 KB per second. For the 5-10 minutes delay, the space required would be nearly 360,000 KB or 360 MB per second. 5-10 minutes of this would definitely take gigabytes of data.

[Rohrmeister 1,553]

All grafics and sounds don't need to be stored sperately. These are (already today) transferred the your client once when you enter a battle.

You dont need to store data per frame, but only when it changes.

 

lets assume we need for each "change":

- time index - 4 bytes

- user id - 1 byte

- position xyz - 6 bytes

- transversal movement vector xyz + accelerations - 9 bytes

- rotation speed around all 3 axis of tank + accelerations -  9 bytes

- turret position in degrees + acceleration - 3 bytes

- shot time index - 4 bytes

- shot ID - 4 bytes

- origin of shot xyz - 6 bytes

- direction of shot - 6 bytes

 

so lets be generous and say it is 70 bytes.

 

but not per frame, it is

- per user action (as these change the parameters of a tank)

- per interaction (shot-tank, tank-tank, tank wall, ... - as these change the parameters of a tank)

 

so if you assume

- 5 interactions per tank per second (you have also drive periods and wait for reload.. think of snipers siting there, ...so I think it is fair enough)

- 14 tanks in the game (7vs7)

 

you result in 70 times 70 bytes per second - this are 4,9 kbyte per second.

As you have 5 minutes delay you need to butter 1,47 MB per average battle.

Lets assume you have 200 battles on each server, so you run aprox. 300 MB on delay buffer on each server.

Most likely the storage capacity is already existing (not thinking about the write performance... as already mentionined in the last post)

 

 

ps: pls note that I have calculated a kb at 1000 bytes and not as 1024..there was not so much of a difference.

[I.WalkAlone 550]

^Fair enough. I wasn't aware that the data regarding the battle was stored in this manner. I only wonder now what the spectator will do in the first 5 minutes of the game if he joins the battle from the beginning?

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

^Fair enough. I wasn't aware that the data regarding the battle was stored in this manner. I only wonder now what the spectator will do in the first 5 minutes of the game if he joins the battle from the beginning?

Well either spectating can't be available until 5 mins have passed or tanki can use them to play some ads  

[Rohrmeister 1,553]

you can join to spectate another battle, until in your "favorite" batte the first 5 min have passed by :)

[T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R 581]

Community feedback is welcome ,don't forget to like and vote  ;) 

[poptropica_tanker 3]

What if the spec is on Skype with a person playing? He can give them important tactical advice.