category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

I must be one of the few that doesn't bother with Grizzly.  Thunders usually take a few shots to kill, and the first one is time to move while you figure out where it's coming from.

 

I just use modules for the ones that can one-shot you, Railgun, Hammer and the one exception is Rico because that's a real pain in the butt atm.

Thing is,  a Thunder firing 5 shots to kill a M4 Light Hull-Grizzly. No Grizzly, 2-3 shots kill.

[Hate 5,582]

I know you don't care because youre one of them (I saw you in deathmatch ramming me with a 50% magnum module on while shooting instead of the 20 or 25% helper module on, Maf) 

Maf is an admin, admins don't get chosen as best helpers of the month but they themselves choose who in their team will be helper of the month in each month, that is why Maf is using normal protections since the protection comes only if you were chosen as one of the best helpers of the month and stays for that month only, more info about it and how it works can be found in here.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Nerf Magnum's reload speed to that of shaft's

 

Magnum deals devastating amounts of damage for its reload speed. Faster than Railgun, more like thunder with its reload speed AND deals more damage than it, yet it can function as an arcade weapon AND a "sniping" one. It's already really good at killing things from places where nobody can get it, so why is its reload speed so fast? It's no wonder why everyone keeps using it.

Heh. It does need some nerf.

[Maf 32,316]

 

Topic merged

 

I disagree about Magnums being everywhere. I play on the same ranks as you, and I see maybe 2-4 Magnumsper battle. It's quite a lot, and they're definitely more popular than, say, Vulcans, but it really depends on the map. In fact, I don't even use Magnum protection that often, since other turrets are more dangerous even if there are lots of Magnums in the battle.

 

I myself stopped using Magnum a while ago and only use it occasionally these days. Yes, the reload time combined with damage results in massive DPS, but don't forget that it's not that easy to accurately hit targets with Magnum, which is what makes the DPS a bit more balanced.

 

Although I do agree that mines should be easier to see.

[DeathIsImminent 153]

Topic merged

 

I disagree about Magnums being everywhere. I play on the same ranks as you, and I see maybe 2-4 Magnumsper battle. It's quite a lot, and they're definitely more popular than, say, Vulcans, but it really depends on the map. In fact, I don't even use Magnum protection that often, since other turrets are more dangerous even if there are lots of Magnums in the battle.

 

I myself stopped using Magnum a while ago and only use it occasionally these days. Yes, the reload time combined with damage results in massive DPS, but don't forget that it's not that easy to accurately hit targets with Magnum, which is what makes the DPS a bit more balanced.

 

Although I do agree that mines should be easier to see.

Oh it's very easy to get hit by a magnum and 2 - 4 magnums PER BATTLE is a red flag that it's excessive, some of the worst spawn-kills are because of it. The reload time needs nerfing. I don't know how the weapon functions when you control it, but whatever the case is, its reload speed needs a massive nerf. If its reload speed wasn't like this, they would be by far and few as shafts were as players who would have them would focus more on sniping down players safely rather than being near invincible.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Magnums are pretty rare in MM at my rank.

[RandomGuy 6]

good idea, and great job with the 1000 posts.

[XxStriker 519]

Are you aware that hornets equipped with railgun/shaft can literally oneshot anything under the overdrive effect, yes? And you want to add invisibility to that?

[wolverine848 13,097]

There are two light hulls but only one has a good overdrive, that being Wasp. Because of its overdrive and of how suddenly it can take players off-guard, it avoids being a target. Hornet's overdrive is the opposite. Being a light hull means you are the prime target for destruction because you have little hp. Hornet's overdrive encourages players to target it even more. Because of that, it is barren from the game as a hull almost entirely. People just use viking or wasp instead.

 

My own suggestion in this regard is to make Hornet completely invisible as well when its overdrive is active. This way it can sneak around areas and become a great tool for getting flags, sneaking up on enemies with close range weapons and simply avoiding being a target. If two hornets used this overdrive and are on opposing teams or in death match, however, they would be able to locate one another. The signalling effect would too not be visible to opponents, but may be still visible for allies.

A Rail with high-caliber rounds on a Hornet can 1-shot a medium hull with DD.  Shaft could one-shot a heavy hull.  It is not a UP OD.

 

And... for how long did you figure this invisibility should last?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Isn't the ability to ignore all types of defense for 20 seconds enough? Plus it has one of the fastest recharge rates.

[Michael828 817]

Absolutely not in favor of this. Hornet's overdrive is easily one of the more threatening ODs in the battlefield, and it's already caused a lot more damage than Wasp's avoidable bomb.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

People just use viking or wasp instead.

I barely see Wasps in legend battles. Mainly Hornets as the light hulls in the battle. And I think we know why that is...

 

My own suggestion in this regard is to make Hornet completely invisible as well when its overdrive is active. This way it can sneak around areas and become a great tool for getting flags, sneaking up on enemies with close range weapons and simply avoiding being a target. If two hornets used this overdrive and are on opposing teams or in death match, however, they would be able to locate one another. The signalling effect would too not be visible to opponents, but may be still visible for allies.

Making them invisible creates even more unpredictability in the game and even more uncertainty as well. Why should Hornet survive and not the other hulls? 

 

I destroy massive pushes as Hornet Magnum with its Overdrive. If I go invisible, I doubt they'd even know where I am to even deal with me. Why should it be something you can't even fight back against? You get one-shotted and you see the flare. You go over there after respawning and then another Railgun shot from the other side kills you. That's no good. It's fine as it is. And it has the fastest recharge time. 

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

My two cents.

Agree, Hornet's OD is not exactly OP, but, when used right, is a game changer.  The problem is every medium and heavy that sees the pulse kills them.  Makes it almost unusable on small makes, and annoy in medium and long range maps where you give yourself away.  I say make the pulse visible to teammates, and maybe, maybe, visible to enemies when they are exceptionally close.

 

Invisible no, that's too much.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

Mammoth already has an overdrive like that, your point is invalid. Lol, jk, but seriously, do consider mammoth having invincibility, which is rather OP compared to other overdrives.

I don't see Mammoths dominating outside of ASL and RGB. CTF is a stretch since their Overdrive would run out less than halfway to their base. 

 

And Mammoth's Overdrive has two counters. A hard counter in the form of Wasp's bomb and a soft counter in the form of Hunter's Overdrive. 

 

Wasps are prevalent as you say (and as I've experienced on my lower account). I often have to be careful of when i activate my Overdrive because every Wasp I encounter seems to have a bomb ready destroy me. And being a Mammoth, I've been subjected to single bombings by Wasps too often. They'd quicker use their bomb on me solely than on a group for more potential kills. And then there is the speed boost it gives. Unless the enemies are caught off guard, they can run away from me easily. They can bend corners and accelerate again easily while I have a hard time doing that. They can jump off cliffs and shrug it off while I can't do it as easily as them and I would lose more speed doing so.  

 

 

I see the exact opposite. A few hornets here and there, but mostly wasps if anyone uses a fast hull, because its overdrive is so powerful by comparison.

I know you'd see the exact opposite. That's why I stated "in legend battles". Wasps are more prevalent in the Warrant Officer ranks as I've seen. When you go higher, you'll (hopefully by that time) see a lot more Hornets than Wasps on the battlefield. 

 

Wasp's Overdrive is an instant effect. It explodes after three seconds, instantly killing anyone within 15 metres of the radius. Hornet's Overdrive requires you to actually seek out the enemy and kill them while trying to stay alive. You can kamikaze with Wasp's bomb but it would not make sense to do the same with Hornet's Overdrive since you're missing out on so much potential. They're both different and require different situations to be used effectively.

 

 

 A hornet is useless in a DM match.

 

 

 

The guy in 1st (X_U_L_I_G_A_N.S) was an M3 (possibly M4) Large Calibre Rounds Ralgun + Hornet and would hide behind the building on the left and pick off enemies with almost every shot. He would recharge his Overdrive quickly and then guarantee one-shot them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So no, Hornet is not useless. Hornet's Overdrive is the most informative Overdrive you can have. You get to see where every enemy on the map that is currently spawned is. You get to see how much HP they have left so you would know whom to target. For a bit more advanced observation, you can determine their next move since you know how much HP they have. Think about what you would do in that situation. If your health is low, you'd find cover. You can follow the guy because, again, you can see where they are and then kill him since you're ignoring protections. 

 

Hornet is one of the only hulls that can kill the Titan under its dome efficiently. 

 

Being able to ignore protections in Deathmatches is a HUGE advantage. If the enemy has 50% protection against you + double armour enabled, you're ignoring all of that. If you're using splash damage turrets, that's even better since you would know who to kill with your Overdrive so you can secure those two or more kills at once without external threats. 

 

Hornet is NOT useless in DM. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[master_howitzer 64]

there are magnum module magnums vikings littering the legend ranks! at least 2 per battle I have seen as many as 5 on one side.

 

what the heck are you talking about? theyre in death match with fully upgrade booster drones one shotting any medium hull without a protection module and double armor on at the same time, theyre camping in capture point or near the flag dropping trash down on you from high places while using saboteur drone and mine alteration to block off their camping spot.

 

remember when everybody hated magnum?

 

I don't even care about about the stupid 15% 20% 25%  protection modules to 14, no wait, its now 15 different weapons in this game. Those modules should not be in the game. there was a ricochet Viking that wouldnt die because it had a lifeguard drone and 25% resistance to everything. so basically it was a 7000 health invincible noob  (that helper was  so noob) just zooming in and out of our base capturing flag after flag. what a handicapped pig. I just leave when I see that purple paint.

 

Maf, yeah I know you rarely use magnum protection because you rarely use magnum. you rammed right into me and shot at a 100% but you had a magnum module on so it probably only did like a maximum of 700 damage and then 3 seconds later you could just poop a shell out on my face, which is now 2 seconds. It is amazing how you got second place that round and almost beat me. 

 

bring back the old 5 second reload time plus the charge up time

 

at least make mines visible sooner, THIS is at least something everybody can agree on

 

whatever happened to my idea of hunters overdrive getting rid of mines? what about hornets radar revealing enemy mines?

 

why wont anybody read my entire first message an comment on every single part? I still want to know why the mine spam alteration was buffed!

[wolverine848 13,097]

I don't see Mammoths dominating outside of ASL and RGB. CTF is a stretch since their Overdrive would run out less than halfway to their base. 

 

And Mammoth's Overdrive has two counters. A hard counter in the form of Wasp's bomb and a soft counter in the form of Hunter's Overdrive. 

 

 

 

Wasps are prevalent as you say (and as I've experienced on my lower account). I often have to be careful of when i activate my Overdrive because every Wasp I encounter seems to have a bomb ready destroy me. And being a Mammoth, I've been subjected to single bombings by Wasps too often. They'd quicker use their bomb on me solely than on a group for more potential kills. And then there is the speed boost it gives. Unless the enemies are caught off guard, they can run away from me easily. They can bend corners and accelerate again easily while I have a hard time doing that. They can jump off cliffs and shrug it off while I can't do it as easily as them and I would lose more speed doing so.  

 

 

I know you'd see the exact opposite. That's why I stated "in legend battles". Wasps are more prevalent in the Warrant Officer ranks as I've seen. When you go higher, you'll (hopefully by that time) see a lot more Hornets than Wasps on the battlefield. 

 

Wasp's Overdrive is an instant effect. It explodes after three seconds, instantly killing anyone within 15 metres of the radius. Hornet's Overdrive requires you to actually seek out the enemy and kill them while trying to stay alive. You can kamikaze with Wasp's bomb but it would not make sense to do the same with Hornet's Overdrive since you're missing out on so much potential. They're both different and require different situations to be used effectively.

 

 

 

 

 

The guy in 1st (X_U_L_I_G_A_N.S) was an M3 (possibly M4) Large Calibre Rounds Ralgun + Hornet and would hide behind the building on the left and pick off enemies with almost every shot. He would recharge his Overdrive quickly and then guarantee one-shot them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So no, Hornet is not useless. Hornet's Overdrive is the most informative Overdrive you can have. You get to see where every enemy on the map that is currently spawned is. You get to see how much HP they have left so you would know whom to target. For a bit more advanced observation, you can determine their next move since you know how much HP they have. Think about what you would do in that situation. If your health is low, you'd find cover. You can follow the guy because, again, you can see where they are and then kill him since you're ignoring protections. 

 

Hornet is one of the only hulls that can kill the Titan under its dome efficiently. 

 

Being able to ignore protections in Deathmatches is a HUGE advantage. If the enemy has 50% protection against you + double armour enabled, you're ignoring all of that. If you're using splash damage turrets, that's even better since you would know who to kill with your Overdrive so you can secure those two or more kills at once without external threats. 

 

Hornet is NOT useless in DM. 

 

 

Mammoth is awesome in CTF.  It can defend the flag very well or... depending on the map... cap flags too.

 

My Brigadier account was using Mammoth-Vulcan on desert and capping flags.  Image what it can do on sandbox or sandal...

 

And yeah, Hornet-Thunders or hornet fire/freeze can do well in DMs at Legend-level as all the enemies have 40%+ protections and most likely DA as well...

[XxStriker 519]

Sure they can, so could a wasp do the exact same and have a trump card on its sleeve if challenged with the bomb overdrive. Hornet doesn't have an aspect like that at all. Most of the time, these sorts of hornets need to drug real hard to survive, and only situationally are useful, like in a TDM Brest map match. But again, Wasp accomplishes the same with a better overdrive advantage to the player.

I have dictator m2.9 and I can run away from the bombs quick enough nearly every time. Bombs are only a problem in the low ranks because it's a fixed explosion time against acceleration and speed that only grows with upgrades.

 

I cannot avoid a rail hornet oneshotting me. And he can do it multiple times in the span of his overdrive. These things do not need to be also impossible to see.

[pro-AGFR 32]

I am fuc*ing high or this dude asks for OP OD to be buffed ,lmao?

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

Mammoth is awesome in CTF.  It can defend the flag very well or... depending on the map... cap flags too.

 

My Brigadier account was using Mammoth-Vulcan on desert and capping flags.  Image what it can do on sandbox or sandal...

 

And yeah, Hornet-Thunders or hornet fire/freeze can do well in DMs at Legend-level as all the enemies have 40%+ protections and most likely DA as well...

Heh, would ya look at that. My Brigadier account also uses Mammoth Vulcan. 

 

With Vulcan, I like to be in the middle or inside their base, no matter the hull. If I'm defending the flag, I'll put it on Freeze but their speed would still be higher than mine when I'm trying to Freeze them since my hull would be too slow to keep them in the stream long enough to put them down to 10% speed. 

 

On Sandbox and Sandals, I dominate (given that the enemy team doesn't out-equip us), especially Sandbox. 

 

For Deserts...there is a problem because I face too many enemy Railguns here and I don't have much protection. This Brigadier account didn't ply during Tanki's transitioning face with all these supplies and stuff and it got neglected. The only good protection I have is 22% Firebird protection I got from the Storm paint. Thanks to the weekly containers I saved up and the containers I got from missions + Tanki's birthday celebrations, I'm getting the account back on track. Protections are the only thing I don't have enough of. I only have 3 protections above 15%. I had bought Thunder protection during the sale so I'm good there. My Railgun protection is 15% (M0 5/5) so it's unfortunate that I couldn't buy the M1. These Railguns one-shot me in Desert battles and there are so many of them. So I don't go after the flag because there is always this one Hunter guarding it. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

why wont anybody read my entire first message an comment on every single part? I still want to know why the mine spam alteration was buffed!

Reason: Trying to gain popularity. 2nd, the -25% penalty is significant. 3rd, not all targets steps on Magnum's mine. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Heh, would ya look at that. My Brigadier account also uses Mammoth Vulcan. 

 

 

 

With Vulcan, I like to be in the middle or inside their base, no matter the hull. If I'm defending the flag, I'll put it on Freeze but their speed would still be higher than mine when I'm trying to Freeze them since my hull would be too slow to keep them in the stream long enough to put them down to 10% speed. 

 

On Sandbox and Sandals, I dominate (given that the enemy team doesn't out-equip us), especially Sandbox. 

 

For Deserts...there is a problem because I face too many enemy Railguns here and I don't have much protection. This Brigadier account didn't ply during Tanki's transitioning face with all these supplies and stuff and it got neglected. The only good protection I have is 22% Firebird protection I got from the Storm paint. Thanks to the weekly containers I saved up and the containers I got from missions + Tanki's birthday celebrations, I'm getting the account back on track. Protections are the only thing I don't have enough of. I only have 3 protections above 15%. I had bought Thunder protection during the sale so I'm good there. My Railgun protection is 15% (M0 5/5) so it's unfortunate that I couldn't buy the M1. These Railguns one-shot me in Desert battles and there are so many of them. So I don't go after the flag because there is always this one Hunter guarding it. 

 

 

My Vulcan is at m2.9 and I think the mammoth is now m2.8

 

Have about 10 protections at 31% each, so I'm covered pretty well.  Also helps if an isida accompanies you on the way there.

Edited June 11, 2019 by wolverine848

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

My Vulcan is at m2.9 and I think the mammoth is now m2.8

 

Have about 10 protections at 31% each, so I'm covered pretty well.  Also helps if an isida accompanies you on the way there.

My Vulcan is still M2.2 (because back then, I didn't need upgrades) and my Mammoth is M2.2 (bought it during the sale). I used it with my M2.2 Dictator (because I didn't need upgrades back then) previously. Still has a long way to go before being even more effective. 

 

I need more protections but they're rather expensive. And I can't remember the last time an ally Isida touched me on that account; 'twas probably last week. 

 

Hornets with their Overdrives usually two shot me in a very small space of time. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

There are two light hulls but only one has a good overdrive, that being Wasp. Because of its overdrive and of how suddenly it can take players off-guard, it avoids being a target. Hornet's overdrive is the opposite. Being a light hull means you are the prime target for destruction because you have little hp. Hornet's overdrive encourages players to target it even more. Because of that, it is barren from the game as a hull almost entirely. People just use viking or wasp instead.

 

My own suggestion in this regard is to make Hornet completely invisible as well when its overdrive is active. This way it can sneak around areas and become a great tool for getting flags, sneaking up on enemies with close range weapons and simply avoiding being a target. If two hornets used this overdrive and are on opposing teams or in death match, however, they would be able to locate one another. The signalling effect would too not be visible to opponents, but may be still visible for allies.

*No* 

[Amagi 1,728]

A hornet is useless in a DM match.

Excuse me?  :lol:

 

Knowing the state of your opponent is almost pointless.

I would rather like to know how much health my opponent has before I waste a shot that takes ~6 seconds to reload. 

 

Hornet's OD doesn't really need a buff right now, its really dang strong atm.

 

when they have a weapon that can 1 - 2 shot a heavy one with a ranged weapon and are usually safe from combat

In Legend battles (especially DM), you can never by truly "safe from combat", since enemies are constantly spawning around you.

 

 

 

 

 

Being able to completely ignore both protections and double armor is such a massive advantage, especially for high-damage, long reload turrets.

 

And before you discount my opinion for being "biased", I've been using Shaft for more than half a decade now, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

This entire time the thing that has been your saving grace is magnum, not the fact that you use hornet. Use any other hull with Magnum, you'd have at least just as good a time with it as you would with hornet when using Magnum. May be I phrased it wrong in that it isn't useless, but it is far less in giving you an advantage.

 

Using hornet in DM match while you are using magnum is going to get a biased result, exactly what you showed there. You are using Magnum, a clearly OP weapon as of right now. Same could be said about rail with its large calibre round alteration, striker with missiles that deal double the damage and thunder at times. I don't know how, but somehow some thunders have an alteration that lets them deal double the damage than usual, not that I know of one that allows that. Either that or I didn't pay attention to the fact that I lost double armor just when they shot, cause I clearly had nearly 50% protection from one.

 

And you seem to be talking like you know better. I have an alt that is Generalissimo and I am telling based on my experience with that account as well. Hornets are sometimes prevalent, sure, when they have a weapon that can 1 - 2 shot a heavy one with a ranged weapon and are usually safe from combat. Otherwise, wasps are used for various purposes in various team based matches. And I can't recall any hornets I have seen in DM, it's full of vikings, hunters, and some titans and mammoths here and there.

 

Knowing the state of your opponent is almost pointless. You can know this simply by already observing what the enemy does. If they have all the supplies on, but they are running away from you, they are low on health, not much question about it. Just a question of initiative before any observation. Useful sometimes, entirely useless most times, especially since you can't see.

 

 

 

And being invisible for Hornet wouldn't mean it would be invincible. It would still be very much destructible if you know where it is (e.g. if you have hornet or someone on the other team has hornet module activated to make them visible for instance), or have hunter disable its overdrive! There would be plenty counters.

 

Can't remember the last time I saw someone with Hornet and Freeze, remember when that was a good combo to have? Now it's just asking for trouble especially if you have the overdrive on while running around with it.

 

 

*Yes*

Until the Wasp OD with a bomb was released the ratio of hornet to wasp was probably 4:1.  it is less than that now.

  

How is a hunter supposed to EMP the hornet when 1) it does not know where it is and 2) it is significantly slower.

They will never give hornet OD anything like you suggest.  That's a non-starter.

Give it up.

 

And since there are still plenty of hornets around at my rank - where everyone has 3+ hulls, it can't be as weak as you imply. Else everyone would use one of their other hulls.