category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 10/12/2022 at 2:56 PM, DragonKnight_Fighter said:

because i still use it, one flaw is that u need support from team mates. the OD is useless when u r capturing flags or rgb balls alone 

sure buddy. last time i used paladin i captured 16 FLAGS IN A ROW in CTF mode. WITHOUT my teammates help.

Must be just a coincidence i mean its not like before i equipped paladin  i was unable to win because of... you guessed it FLYING PALADIN MONKEY. 

Oh and before you say anything it was maybe 4 weeks ago. So i was using paladin that is so nerfed it makes me cry! oh my lord buff paladin pls :((((

On 10/6/2022 at 8:42 PM, DragonKnight_Fighter said:

get isida prot and counter with long range weapons 

whats next you're going to say? "if you're getting attacked by a lot of people just equip Spectrum or Armadillo module"? You can't be serious.

 

On 10/6/2022 at 9:40 AM, UnIeash said:

For Balance purpose remove AP from its overdrive

It needs AP removed or its OD time turned into like 10 seconds. then it should be somewhat balanced. Thats ignoring the built in hacks flying monkeys have like:
Doing damage like 7/10 times even though you hit it 10/10 times
Side sliding making something like hopper borderline unhittible in long range combat

another bs im forgetting about those things.

[DragonKnight 414]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:42 PM, Kimura said:

whats next you're going to say? "if you're getting attacked by a lot of people just equip Spectrum or Armadillo module"? You can't be serious.

ofc not, u cant equip spectrum and armadillo together 
but armadillo is good choice, and u can change prot depending on the circumstances 
 

 

On 10/12/2022 at 5:42 PM, Kimura said:

sure buddy. last time i used paladin i captured 16 FLAGS IN A ROW in CTF mode. WITHOUT my teammates help.

maybe u got lucky to have weaker enemies, when i get to their base, every enemies turrets are against me, so its basically 5v1

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 10/12/2022 at 6:38 AM, TargetXAcquired said:

I have always found that these two words very rarely describe (depict) what a turret/hull/augment, etc really does in battle. I agree that numbers/stats rarely stack up and are inevitably useless information in any and all battles. Here is a example. Missile launcher- swarm. It is supposed to have decreased damage but i see them destroy enemy players all the time with just one volley/salvo of their missiles. Like i said, useless information that has no bearing in actual battles.  

The number of missiles in the salvo is lower, from 10 total to 6. That is what the "decreased" damage is referring to. The issue with Swarm is that it scales too well with Scoprion's parameters. Just as you can have a turret that deals very high damage with a long reload and be powerful, you can have a turret that deals lower than normal damage but with a faster firing rate and be powerful. LCR and Scout Railgun being prime examples of this before the critical hit update in 2021. Compare Middle Launcher "Swarm" to Missile Launcher "Wolfpack" and you'll see the stark difference in damage scaling. 

 

And yes the damage a turret/augment does matters. If Swarm had 5 missiles instead of 6, a maxed Scorpion would not have as much efficiency as it does now. If a maxed Scorpion had lower than 1,500 critical damage, it would not have as much efficiency as it does now. If Small Calibre Charging Machine for Thunder's normal damage penalty was -25% instead of -30%, it would not be as inefficient as it is now. 

 

On 10/12/2022 at 8:12 AM, Kimura said:

It needs AP removed or its OD time turned into like 10 seconds. then it should be somewhat balanced.

The latter makes sense for its current paramaters and effects. But the topic creator and others just want the AP removed and call that a day. I'm for the AP being removed but if it does, then something else on the OD would need to be enhanced to justify Paladin's charging parameters, or the charging parameters need to be enhanced to justify removing its snowballing effect. The devs intentionally pushed it in a direction of "yeah it's powerful but it's justified because it takes long to charge, you can't gain OD charge during the duration and Hunter, Ares, Hopper and Crusader counter it, ok?"

 

The current design of the OD forces it to be oppressive when not countered and that's a problem. Removing the AP imo should be the first step in rectifying that, but who knows if they will ever do that because the time to kill an enemy keeps dropping lower with each update this year. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:19 AM, UnIeash said:

You can clearly see in battle with 9999gs player for example and when attacking you see its clearly out of balance with other overdrives and hulls. 

Because the AP is what allows it to snowball. Instead of a Freeze Paladin Trickster having to spend 6-8 seconds of ammo on a protected enemy, they can only spend 2 to kill them and quickly move onto the next one. You have Paladins that use it offensively for kills/points, ones that use it to capture flags which often requires killing, which is easier to do due to the AP, the use of holding a point in Siege, which AP makes significantly easier. The AP is the biggest reason for its domination because it stops people from having time to counter it where the Paladin can easily be hit. 

 

Remove the AP and it will take much longer to trudge through enemies. Much more time to counter, no more instant death to third party damage when you're near it which allows you to stall it. The things do counter it efficiently won't be at risk anymore when getting close to it. If you're removing the AP, you're removing a big reason why it takes 6 minutes to passively charge along with a score penalty during the duration. Buffing the passive charge rate would be a due compensation. 

[mrvomit 106]

..Btw  the all  p2w stuff about is senseless too , i have paladin and ALL of the "major"  protection augments included . Maxed . Still i say it's op  , too much stuff for a single hull i wonder everyday why there are tweaks everywhere and that major thing does not get corrected..MUCH LIKE IT WAS FOR HOPPER actually then they managed to correct it ( except for  hopper  was easier cause it did not have so many thing at once ..prot/ ap+second augment  / heal / faster/stronger     ) .
EITHER they would have to  do a choice from attack aspect and defense aspect  or they should  shorten the active  time   like any other hulls .
It does not even look "medium"   but i guess is system that does not register well damage due to desync and fast hovers in general.
The way to follow is already there .. ALL THE OTHER HULLS are there to show you how to balance  .

[TargetXAcquired 277]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:17 PM, DragonKnight_Fighter said:

ofc not, u cant equip spectrum and armadillo together

He said either spectrum or armadillo, the  is on you mod.

 

On 10/12/2022 at 1:17 PM, DragonKnight_Fighter said:

so its basically 5v1

Takes that many to kill just one legal hack. Without your hack your just a average joe in battle.

 

On 10/13/2022 at 9:41 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

If you're removing the AP, you're removing a big reason why it takes 6 minutes to passively charge along with a score penalty during the duration

Remove the AP, give it tracks and were good.   

[Dopamine 2,161]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:51 PM, TargetXAcquired said:

Takes that many to kill just one legal hack. Without your hack your just a average joe in battle.

Im not defending paladin here, but this argument doesn´t hold much water.

Overdrives are made to be strong in general, whether we like it or not. With Ares your can clear the entire enemy base and heal yourself + your team without much effort + it has a faster reload time than paladin. With a good combo you can get 4+ kills on supercharge with dictator + share the effect with your team. A few examples that is.

I agree paladin is usually throwing the balance a bit too much in the capture modes, so a moderate tweak should be in place, maybe slowing your hull a little for the duration of the od, maybe decrease the heal rate, but removing a whole ability like AP is too much imo.

 

[DragonKnight 414]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:51 AM, TargetXAcquired said:

Takes that many to kill just one legal hack. Without your hack your just a average joe in battle.

so...... pretty balanced already

[DragonKnight 414]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:00 AM, master_howitzer said:

you wont let us put multiple status effect immunities on so...

isida should get rid of status effects once again when it heals a teammate.

maybe instead of a heal critical getting 4000 it could get the same as regular healing but a crit would ad the light blue shield symbol temporarily and cancel out all the excessive status effect spam the game is plagued with nowadays.

also make it higher chance to get the crit. I mean REALLY high chance.

this is not a bad idea, could be useful and can make isida's nanobots augment very powerful 

[mrvomit 106]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:33 AM, frederik123456 said:

Im not defending paladin here, but this argument doesn´t hold much water.

 With Ares your can clear the entire enemy base and heal yourself + your team without much effort + it has a faster reload time than paladin. With a good combo you can get 4+ kills on supercharge with dictator + share the effect with your team. A few examples that is.

 

 

i kinda disagree though . It's another example of stats or "numbers" as said before instead than actual battle .
ok lets take Ares as mentioned :
Ares od is 1 shot , must be aimed correctly , is slower ( more than 50% of time i can avoid it with medium hulls)  , cannot heal himself unless he follows his ball ( and i see he get crashed opften anyway immediately after  but whatever)   , once ball passed teammates are again into shot range  ,which also mean he cannot "stay there and cap" or whatever (  or  follow teammates with zero difficlcy etc etc)   to aid them CONTINUOSLY WHERE and  WHEN he wants  (who has the time to follow a ball and shoot completely elsewhere enemies , lets be real i cannot even count scenarios now ) . .
And Ares is PERFECTLY fine like this  , cause used skilfully is fun , who get pissed of when crushed by his od.. nobody , perfectly normal od .
________________________
Actually nice you mentioned Ares cause Who will be using Ares if not for pure fun when Paladin does that and better  in many scenarios and battle modes ( even in large arenas  when paladins is in od he rushes into enemy and does some  mess AVOIDING WALLS with his effect , try to do with an Ares ) ..
If ares shoots an od at a paladin in a large map   .. paladin has the time  strife to supermarket -drink a pair of coffes-burp-  and go back to cap again .. 
Actual battle speaks more than figuring out but well  , i understand paladin users expeciallu people that without it cant do much ; is understandable .
__________.
JUst played some CP maps.. with drone and status the  paladins where scoring 2/times, always first , always , if they dont kill they ubercap , depending from the weapon they equip,
i 'm 9999... have a bit of  everything in garage  so i manage to finish my missions and whatever just try to avoid them cause even with 50 protection alone is impossible to "duel "him  sometime even when they do not od (unless i equip booster AND i have protection ) , too fast . , it's the  newer casual  teammates that flee away or get crushed  and they are absolutely right , would do the same . 
 

[Me0w_XP 523]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:39 AM, mrvomit said:

Ares od is 1 shot , must be aimed correctly , is slower ( more than 50% of time i can avoid it with medium hulls) 

Ares was buffed so hard that a barely aimed shot can wipe an entire base out because it moves relatively fast now and has great range. There have been many cases where I tried to run from it but it ended up killing me anyway because of how far it can reach and how fast it deals damage.

 

On 10/14/2022 at 4:39 AM, mrvomit said:

And Ares is PERFECTLY fine like this  , cause used skilfully is fun , who get pissed of when crushed by his od.. nobody , perfectly normal od .

It's immensely frustrating sometimes, and many people have expressed similar sentiment.

[Dopamine 2,161]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:12 PM, Me0w_XP said:

Ares was buffed so hard that a barely aimed shot can wipe an entire base out because it moves relatively fast now and has great range. There have been many cases where I tried to run from it but it ended up killing me anyway because of how far it can reach and how fast it deals damage.

 

It's immensely frustrating sometimes, and many people have expressed similar sentiment.

I agree, I own both ares and paladin and would say ares is more op of the two.

You get used to the aiming fairly quickly and then you just find a high spot and shoot accross the map in the general direction of your enemies. 5+ kills guaranteed and all that from the safety of your base.

[mrvomit 106]

Like we are playing different game , or playstyle do vary  so much that we see a different game , dunno how to explain else  , i 've finished all the supermission  , guess the only one had troubles with  ..the 9999 palad with drones  , i did not even bother to watch the Ares hulls lol  once i avoided the shoot lol ( with a medium hull , i dunno how can NOT avoid it unless shooter is  skillful , and again once ball passes  is byebye.. you kill 5? Well your team loses anyway . ) .  Well  if you say like that must be individual playing then 
( like not being good at  turn turret and going backwards with backward turret so it takes 3x times to run away cause yyu dont see where you go. just guessing  ) .
Perhaps i mean winning more than killing , but ..
Well , all is talked about  ! Cheers!

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by mrvomit

[TargetXAcquired 277]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:33 PM, frederik123456 said:

but removing a whole ability like AP is too much imo.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by TargetXAcquired

[Me0w_XP 523]

I was watching an OufaGold video from 1 year ago, and it's almost shocking to realize TTK is so short now that we're dealing the same damage with Brutus that he dealt using old 200% Booster drone.

[AncientFire 1,894]

On 10/22/2022 at 6:04 PM, UnIeash said:

So for these who defend this balanced overdrive saying ""remove ap is too much" it have long reload etc. Maybe this screenshoot will remind you a little how broken it is.  Obviously it was player in first in red team. Since russians forget there are other hulls too but they decide to use hull with zero skill need no more explanation.

He rushed our WHOLE team with freeze like we wasnt there, yes everyone was shooting him. And no higher gs wont change outcome in any way. ""Supporting hull"" they said, alright. Players who use this hull are cowards for me nothing else

100%

Everytime I see paladins on the opponent side I just leave, there is no fighting back, I tried a few times and got destroyed on every single one

The only time I've seen these noobs die is when literally our whole team collectively aims at one, even then it takes a good few seconds to kill

Or they die when a paladin on our team uses their OD against it

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:19 AM, UnIeash said:

Afterall its supporting hull right?

I don't think i ever saw Trashladin's OD used to support it only caps all flags in 4 seconds and wins 7-0 or kills 80 people in DM before your OD runs out.

On 10/14/2022 at 12:51 AM, TargetXAcquired said:

Takes that many to kill just one legal hack. Without your hack your just a average joe in battle.

Don't disrespect average Joe. Last time i fought paladin it took him like 5 seconds to finally start hitting me (it was a melee... fight...) they can't even turn without their OD or something they're too braindead he only won because he had 50% prot. Oh if Trashladin defenders think it was a noob the same noob capped 7 flags in around 4 minutes. in a battle that was BALANCED before he joined.

 

On 10/14/2022 at 8:38 AM, DragonKnight said:

so...... pretty balanced already

Reminder that the name of this topic is "Nerf Paladin Overdrive". Just reminding ^^

 

On 10/14/2022 at 11:39 AM, mrvomit said:

And Ares is PERFECTLY fine like this  , cause used skilfully is fun , who get pissed of when crushed by his od.. nobody , perfectly normal od .

Ares OD is way more OP than Titan or Mammoth or even compared to another ODs (except paladin ofc).

Skillful? lol sometimes i have Ares OD and the match is ending so i just shoot the ball without looking and get 1-3 kills almost every time. Super skillful! Not even talking about SGE where its definition of cancer 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Kimura

[yuvraj007 302]

Nothing is more satisfying than oneshotting glowing Trashladins with railgun hyperspace

[The_Resistance 135]

Just swich AP with Jammer and/or Freezing. This is "support for assault" not the AP wich is only "assault".

[Cleric 1,385]

TO in a nutshell:

Imagine it is CS:Go but the Devs decided to add grande launcher and homing missle launcher as primary weapons

 

And most important thing is, they are super proud of it

Edited November 27, 2022 by Warpriest

[PerplexingTX 39]

Increase the time to kill for all hulls. Currently you get obliterated against anything. One shots used to be rare, now its a blessing that you don't die within 2 seconds of an encounter with an enemy

[fire199 267]

On 12/2/2022 at 7:11 AM, PerplexingTX said:

Increase the time to kill for all hulls. Currently you get obliterated against anything. One shots used to be rare, now its a blessing that you don't die within 2 seconds of an encounter with an enemy

that will result in slow gameplay, less kills means less points and crystals 

[DaringDeer 656]

Everything does too much damage and/or tanks have too little health.  It is what is making the game all about camping.

[fire199 267]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:34 AM, DaringDeer said:

Everything does too much damage and/or tanks have too little health.  It is what is making the game all about camping.

The game is good right now i would rather we do more damage

If we increase our health, It will take 10 years to kill an ares scorpion crisis user or a ares, crisis with a broken augment (helios, vaccum shells and hyper speed)

No thanks i would quit it they increased health. Im not gonna get a die 3 or 4 times trying to kill 1 player. 

Increasing our health will only benefit buyers. since the game is tailored to give them the most broken items first. ftp player with their useless augemnt wont do anythign aginst them. broken augments get +200% or 300% damage like what

On 12/1/2022 at 11:41 PM, PerplexingTX said:

Increase the time to kill for all hulls. Currently you get obliterated against anything. One shots used to be rare, now its a blessing that you don't die within 2 seconds of an encounter with an enemy

your probally a buyer who dosnt have skill cus idk why you would want that have you ever verserd a crisis ares user with a broken augment (helios, vaccum shells and hyper speed) now imagine them camping you from far and with double health  

and you if you a ftp player maybe you dont have enough skill you shld be askign for more base dmage to kill them quicker just as fast as they kill us. since most ftp player wont have crisis they cant just swith to double amour. 

 

if you agree with me please like, i hope im making sense, a crisis ares user with scoprion or hyperspeed, helios can still camp but with double health is just so dumb...

 

 

Since we are on that note mods can you please put a sugesstion to increase our damage i already die 2-3 times tryign to kill a ares crisis user, so if you can please fowards that we want to increase base damage to keep up with exotic augments. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by fire199

[Akame 4,577]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:04 PM, DaringDeer said:

Everything does too much damage and/or tanks have too little health.  It is what is making the game all about camping.

But then again, we all saw the frustration when tanki doubled all hulls HP in the live game testing, imagine heavy hull hp on hoppers, i know a lotta players who wouldnt be happy about that atleast, or even 6k hp paladins etc