Let's Discuss Containers!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I assumed that the place in the order for forced rewards were fixed at #15. As such, I assumed that a player may have been able to delay the forced reward by opening x1 so you'd have a very marginally increased chance for exotics in UCs. 

 

That, in the end, is not the case. So if someone asks whether they should open x1, x5 or x15 on mobile to increase their chances of getting an exotic, for now you can safely tell them it does not matter. They can open it whenever they feel like it. They cannot manipulate the order of the forced rarity rewards because their order in a x5 and x15 batch is random. 

[Mr.Designer 161]

"Bad" rewards are one thing, but did anyone look at containers system from other perspective?  Wouldn't it be a lot better if we could purchase skins, shoft effects, "legendary" augments, animated paints, and some other container-exclusive items with crystals like it used to be? Since containers were added, there is more and more items locked there.
In some time we won't be able to purchase anything, who knows, maybe they will even get rid of crystals, and lock equipment upgrades in containers as well, because from what we can see, it's slowly going in that direction.

[TargetXAcquired 277]

The old container system gave out to much in the way of crystals/supplies. This is the conclusion I have came to regarding that particular decision made by the devs. 

Containers like everything else associated with TO have been updated to make it easier for them to make cash.

A lot of the items in containers are there as "fillers" so as to water down the half decent prizes you might otherwise get more often.

In the main containers and the prizes within are extremely poor.

On 1/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, Mr.Designer said:

maybe they will even get rid of crystals

Doubtful.

 

On 1/12/2023 at 11:27 AM, Mr.Designer said:

and lock equipment upgrades in containers as well,

Wouldn't put it past them.

There ability to screw players over at every opportunity is their trademark.

TO as a whole may be updating to keep up with the times, but in doing so it has become overcrowded with OP, meaningless and for the most part, not wanted updates that only buyers benefit from. Like their containers TO is now a poor and substandard game. The list of complaints against them is so long it would take a massive post to identify all of them and come up with a solution to rectify their many, many mistakes regarding the game and it's player base.

Containers are a small part of the affliction that has spread throughout the game, a affliction perpetrated by the devs to undermine players, buyers included.

My game time has been cut drastically and I now only come on because I have a maxed acc that needs nothing doing to it.

TO is something to do in-between other stuff now, such is the decline it has suffered because of their greed and the manipulation of the game that has players complaining left and right on a regular basis.

One mod said the devs prove they listen and act on player feedback.

I still find that comment the most hilarious one ever posted, not to mention the fact it's complete bullcrap. 

[JustBlackWolf 875]

This is exactly why they're forcing the containers to open 15 at a time. It's scripted in such a way that the first 10 rewards (or so) are always common and then the last 5 are "better" which means increased rarity. If you want to get around this garbage scam system open your containers 1 by 1 on Tanki Mobile.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:09 AM, JustBlackWolf said:

This is exactly why they're forcing the containers to open 15 at a time. It's scripted in such a way that the first 10 rewards (or so) are always common and then the last 5 are "better" which means increased rarity. 

You do know that it's possible to get few commons or many commons in those openings, right? In a x15 opening you should expect at least 8 commons to drop. 

 

On 1/12/2023 at 11:09 AM, JustBlackWolf said:

If you want to get around this garbage scam system open your containers 1 by 1 on Tanki Mobile.

With which I will get 10+ commons/uncommons in a row like I often do? The channel for a common is 50% and the chance for an uncommon is 34%. 

[JustBlackWolf 875]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:20 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

You do know that it's possible to get few commons or many commons in those openings, right? In a x15 opening you should expect at least 8 commons to drop. 

I do know yes, but it's extremely rare.

On 1/12/2023 at 4:20 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

With which I will get 10+ commons/uncommons in a row like I often do? The channel for a common is 50% and the chance for an uncommon is 34%. 

Better to just get 1 common at a time than 14 or even 15 altogether. The containers are scripted/coded to give you garbage with minimal chances of getting what you want. Trust me i worked on Revive Tanki X we saw how the containers were coded in that game (even though they worked differently they were made on purpose to screw you over)

Edited January 12, 2023 by JustBlackWolf

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:25 AM, JustBlackWolf said:

Trust me i worked on Revive Tanki X we saw how the containers were coded in that game (even though they worked differently they were made on purpose to screw you over)

This sounds interesting. May I see how this works? 

[JustBlackWolf 875]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:31 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

This sounds interesting. May I see how this works? 

Unfortunately i don't have it at hand because i wasn't the main developer behind that project, and even if i did the mods would probably remove it.

I can tell you how it worked though.

So basically containers had a variety of items like skins, paints, graffiti, avatars (yes graffiti and avatars are a thing there)

Said items had rarity where the skins could be epic/legendary and the paints could be rare/common/epic etc.

So the chances of getting an item worked pretty much like on TO, it would take several containers before getting the rarest items, however there was a mechanic included called "duplicates".

Yes, upon opening a container you could get an item that you already owned with a refund of regular crystals if you did so. The containers were actually scripted to have an extremely high chance of giving you duplicates.

Before the game died, the last dev working on it created a container with every single item in the game (including some of the items that were never sold again after being sold once). Upon creating a new account in our playtests when reviving the game and unlocking just a single item from said container, the next containers would give a duplicate several times despite there being hundreds of items yet to unlock, my friend was kinda shocked when he put his hands on the containers code. Of course all this was made to give you less chances of getting what you wanted and obviously forced you to spend more money in case you didn't.

Thankfully to doesn't have any duplicate mechanic, it would be almost impossible to unlock new stuff if that was so.

But if i have to be honest it wasn't too unfair in the end since you could get a very good amount of premium currency by ending up in the highest league (yeah they decided to make Tanki X competitive down the road, Alternativa made a huge mess trying to force it down players throats despite the player base being already low back then)

A game with massive potential ruined by their greediness and incompetency.

Edited January 12, 2023 by JustBlackWolf

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:25 AM, JustBlackWolf said:

The containers are scripted/coded to give you garbage with minimal chances of getting what you want. Trust me i worked on Revive Tanki X we saw how the containers were coded in that game (even though they worked differently they were made on purpose to screw you over)

Do you believe that that is the same for Ultra Containers? 

[yuvraj007 302]

Isn't it pretty obvious that ultra/containers are rigged against our favour?

Only a fool will say otherwise

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/17/2023 at 1:44 PM, yuvraj007 said:

Isn't it pretty obvious that ultra/containers are rigged against our favour?

Only a fool will say otherwise

Rigged in what way?

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:44 PM, yuvraj007 said:

Isn't it pretty obvious that ultra/containers are rigged against our favour?

Only a fool will say otherwise

Rigging Ultra Containers in any way shape or form is a thing a guy who likes risks or a fool. would do.

Rigging depending on how far you go can fall under false advertising and it is illegal ofc you can rig it in a way where you can whinkie whinkie dodge the lawsuit but by rigging containers you are on thin ice as tanki owner. Now you can make the case that they never showed of the real probabilities of getting a certain drop so there is no way of actually proving its rigged. Yes they showed us the numbers in some OLD VLOGS but they're OLD VLOGS tanki can just say they changed the rates and woop tanki won. It depends on what kind of laws Russia has when it comes to this i think. personally i don't think containers are rigged. at least for me. i get way more yellow drops after container nerf and purple/blue/yellow/red drops don't seem too rare for a 10% 0,5%........ rate. Don't forget containers are lottery sometimes you win first try sometimes you spend a million and get nothing.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:31 PM, Kimura said:

Yes they showed us the numbers in some OLD VLOGS but they're OLD VLOGS tanki can just say they changed the rates and woop tanki won. 

Which is why I've been recording the drop rates from the UCs I've opened since they made the forced rarity reward change, and now with the removed Commons. Almost every time they were close to what they stated it was. The only one we're not sure of currently is Exotic. All we know is that Commons were removed so that 0.5% went somewhere. My 3,000+ opened UCs so far don't seem to hint that they were added to the Exotic drop rate. 

[yuvraj007 302]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:03 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Rigged in what way?

- Containers are tagged based on their source (e.g daily missions/ special mission/ tanki fund/ shop etc). Each tag has different sets of reward probabilities/odds, which are tuned cleverly by the developers. For e.g, containers received from Tokens of Apology often give good rewards to calm down players while containers received from special missions yield good rewards less often. Similarly, the rewards received from 200 containers bought from the shop v/s 200 containers accumulated from special missions are vastly different.

- Coincidence or not: I have opened over 300 ultra containers since 2021 from special missions and I haven't got one exotic item. Thus, I recently posted on the forum about this issue and guess what, I got 2 exotics after opening 15 ultra containers later. This brings me to the next point that containers are cleverly designed to prevent players from getting their desired items. They are infested with absurd amount of useless paints and even the ultra rare exotic space is polluted with undesired augments/skins. As a matter of fact, the 2 exotic items I got were trashy augments which I used only once. Even buyers have to gamble tons of money to hopefully win their desired exotic augment/skin. They cannot buy their desired item directly. 

- I am barely scratching the surface here. There may be surely more advanced algorithms & AI's which analyse every action you take to give you rewards that will generate more revenue for them. Those thinking opening containers are only luck-based are so naive.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:13 PM, yuvraj007 said:

- Containers are tagged based on their source (e.g daily missions/ special mission/ tanki fund/ shop etc). Each tag has different sets of reward probabilities/odds, which are tuned cleverly by the developers. For e.g, containers received from Tokens of Apology often give good rewards to calm down players while containers received from special missions yield good rewards less often.

Do you want to elaborate on this part? In what way can they "cleverly tune" the rewards of different tagged containers to not raise suspicion? 

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:13 PM, yuvraj007 said:

There may be surely more advanced algorithms & AI's which anhalyse every action you take to give you rewards that will generate more revenue for them. Those thinking opening containers are only luck-based are so naive.

1) This is Tanki Online - not some cyberpunk back to the future remix with Tao AI

2) RNG exists in many games - RNG is often referred to as luck.

 

Point to note; the only thing manipulated with regular containers and ultras are, that if you do not get a rare, or an epic reward, by the 14th opening , the 15th will be a rare of an epic rarity confirmed respectively for those containers. Other than that, it is a literal probability game.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Akame

[yuvraj007 302]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:25 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Do you want to elaborate on this part? In what way can they "cleverly tune" the rewards of different tagged containers to not raise suspicion? 

• The probabilities of getting epic/legendary/exotic can be tuned.
• The pool of rewards for epic/legendary/exotic can be tuned.

On 1/17/2023 at 11:28 PM, Akame said:

1) This is Tanki Online - not some cyberpunk back to the future remix with Tao AI

2) RNG exists in many games - RNG is often referred to as luck.

Never underestimate the power of greedy developers, especially in this age of data

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/17/2023 at 7:43 PM, yuvraj007 said:

• The probabilities of getting epic/legendary/exotic can be tuned.
• The pool of rewards for epic/legendary/exotic can be tuned.

Never underestimate the power of greedy developers, especially in this age of data

Every game has tuning :imok: Have you never played any other game that includes lootbox/gacha? :deadge:

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:43 PM, yuvraj007 said:

• The probabilities of getting epic/legendary/exotic can be tuned.
• The pool of rewards for epic/legendary/exotic can be tuned.

While I'm not going to fully dismiss what happened to you, the number of containers you opened was small and was spread across a long time. That could easily be coincidence. 

[opwsdj 40]

Im just curious, has anybody ever gotten a blue for the 14th ultra and then a legendary on the 15th? ever since the forced epic its always an epic on the 15th if you have a blue on the 14th, the funny thing is you could get a blue and then legendary with 15 normal containers, but not ultras, which is kinda stupid

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:42 PM, opwsdj said:

Im just curious, has anybody ever gotten a blue for the 14th ultra and then a legendary on the 15th? ever since the forced epic its always an epic on the 15th if you have a blue on the 14th, the funny thing is you could get a blue and then legendary with 15 normal containers, but not ultras, which is kinda stupid

Normal (green) containers have forced RAREs which has a 10% chance of dropping there. Ultra containers have forced EPICs which has a 10% chance of occuring there. 

[opwsdj 40]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:21 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Normal (green) containers have forced RAREs which has a 10% chance of dropping there. Ultra containers have forced EPICs which has a 10% chance of occuring there. 

I'm not sure I understand, I know about forced rarities, so do you mean its impossible to get legendary in ultra without getting at least 1 epic? (which was what I was asking)

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:42 PM, opwsdj said:

Im just curious, has anybody ever gotten a blue for the 14th ultra and then a legendary on the 15th? ever since the forced epic its always an epic on the 15th if you have a blue on the 14th, the funny thing is you could get a blue and then legendary with 15 normal containers, but not ultras, which is kinda stupid

Please do not forget that, on a x15 opening, the containers are not necessarily opened in the order you perceive them.

I.e, if my x15 shows, 10 commons, 2 uncommons, 1 rare, 2 epics (for a regular container opening), it is very much possible that you could have got an epic first, then a few commons, another epic, some uncommons and then the rare.

Our opening always shows containers in general rarity order, only time the order is mixed up, is if your pool acquires new items, i.e unlocking a new turret (hence unlocking it's augments).

So if by 14, u didnt get rare for regs, or epic for ultras, u will simply not get anything otherwise on the forced 15th.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Akame

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:45 PM, opwsdj said:

I'm not sure I understand, I know about forced rarities, so do you mean its impossible to get legendary in ultra without getting at least 1 epic? (which was what I was asking)

Yes, by all demeaner and practice and sample testing, for regs, in a x15 opening, if by 14 you don't get a rare item, you will 100% get a rare item on the 15th. Similar for Ultras, if you don't get an epic rarity item by 14, your 15th item has to be 100% an epic. So far, no evidence suggests the game allowing 'X rarity _or higher_ on forced rarities'.

Also to note, if you try to open them 1 by 1, which is only possible to do if you gain containers 1 by 1, or on mobile, even if you get a higher rarity then the 'forced rarity', the counter for the 'forced rarity' will not reset.

So the most craziest x15 reg cont opening would be 14 legendaries + 1 forced rare, or for a x15 ultra cont opening, 14 exotics +1 forced epic. (Ofc the order the 15 opening would show is the lower rarity first.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Akame

[JustBlackWolf 875]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:05 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Do you believe that that is the same for Ultra Containers? 

Of course, Containers are just a string of code that plays whenever you open them, they are made to force you to buy more to get what you want, if you are a big buyer of course. That's why they removed the option for you to open 1 container at a time, i'm sure some players were starting to realize how the system works, that's why i always make tests on the test server with the containers to find a way to work around the system.

I wouldn't be surprised if the containers were even scripted to have better chances for good items for accounts with a specific status (like moderators or administrators). I still remember when the "Screenshot of the day" topic was flooded by mods posting picture after pictre of them getting legendary/exotic items, while regular players were very few.

There is obviously a chance of winning otherwise it would be pointless, no one would have anything. I believe it's completely random, and that's why i advice to open only 1 container at a time, so it has to roll the chances every time, instaed of opening 15 containers and giving you the scripted 8-10 common items (it's truly a waste, trust me), before starting to give you better rarity stuff.

For some time i thought that opening 5 containers at a time worked better (and it did, surely more than 15, you would almost always get 2-3 better items and only get 2-3 common items at the same time, still better than the 10 common - 5 increased rarity items ratio you'd get when opening 15.)