Update

[muffinman361 97]

first they ruined isida, and i knew it was only a matter of time before they would ruin freeze. it wasnt an 'if,' but 'when'. they also ruined the past 6 gold events and all future gold events because of lifeguard drones and mammoth. im glad i quit the game because i knew it was going to get worse and worse by the day

 

 

Hey, nice feedback, let me address all of your concerns :)

 

First of all, Freeze will face further changes and power balance will be addressed.

 

Regarding Freeze overall position in the game balance, there is a history to it. I do not now if you are acquainted to it but long story short — freeze got freeze problem. From the very beginning its core mechanic was, well, toxic to put it mildly. First versions of Freeze could put a 30 seconds debuff on enemy tanks. Over the years we tried to change it in various ways from not very smart, such as making it to freeze only turret but not the hull, to somewhat acceptable, such as it was before recent changes.

 

It is indeed the Juggernaut who brought this issue back to my attention. But is wasn’t enough to force changes. You see, while it’s state was ‘somewhat acceptable’ it wasn’t in a good place. Freeze balance is always limited by its freezing power in one and one direction only — if a Freeze can force enemy tank to stop it always wins regardless of its damage or energy capacity. If a Freeze can not force enemy tank to stop it is not doing its job and nobody use it. There was literally only one balance lever — how many tanks should Freeze kill, before it’s energy runs dry. You can’t make much fun out of that.

 

Current iteration of changes tackle the problem with new approach — while freeze still can make difference in base defence by slowing down enemy tanks, it can no longer render them completely useless. It is the same old problem of counterplay which is very important for pvp games — a player should have a counterplay to every mechanic that might be used against him. This is why general direction of this change will remain as it is — enemy tanks will have the option to fight back. It is not only a proper way to address counterplay but enables back all of the other levers of balance — damage, range, energy capacity. I might even consider making a full stop at max freeze.

 

I understand if you don’t like huge gameplay change that makes enemy tanks no longer powerless against your Freeze but please try to understand my concerns as well.

 

Speaking of huge gameplay changes, I need to address this concern as well.

 

You might’ve noticed that most of recent balance changes are made in small incremental way. Which makes Freeze to really stand out. Way is that, you ask. There are rather boring reasons to it. The rest of items that are being changed has its mechanics set as they are. We are only pushing balance slightly here and there to keep overall performance in check.

 

Freeze got its mechanics changed. This is why so called shock change is used. It would make really awkward situation if every balance patch Freeze’s freeze power would go down and down with each change. Like... when are we going to stop doing this? Why are they keep making it worse? Da hell is going on in Russia, vodka rain?? This patch immediately changed Freeze mechanics and gameplay making it possible to proceed with balance from new perspective. This is why we used shock changes. We didn't wanted to nerf Freeze, this is when small incremental changes are used, we wanted to make it different.

 

There is whole another story on why Freeze changes has its influence on other freezing mechanics in the game. I’d like it to be changed as well to keep an option to make damage avoidance where it’s appropriate. For now, Freeze is in the priority.

ive been playing tanki since 2011 and have been playing with freeze for 6 years now. in the current meta, light hulls are really bad. freeze worked perfectly to balance them out which made fun combos like wasp freeze and hornet freeze viable in modes like ctf and even DM. not only does this update make freeze useless, but it makes light hulls more useless now which just keeps making your game more and more unbalanced. first you guys ruin gameplay with overdrives and now gold events are ruined with drones and overdrives, i just really dont get it, this game used to be so much simpler and so much more fun but you guys keep ruining and ruining i really dont know why? pleease just tell me why you guys love ruining your game? we all miss the old days of gold events with dictator pileups and wasps flinging into golds....and now.. just pressing a button and pushing with 17 other mammoths under the dropzone. please reverse this stupid freeze update, freeze is already easily countered by pro players just put it back to how it was again i dont understand why you guys love and enjoy to ruin things like you did with isidas self heal, gold events, and now freeze. the idea of freeze being able to circle enemies was perfectly balanced and involved skill and wasnt overpowered whatsoever as a person using it for 6 years, i know, please just stop the igorance and fix your game, please for the love of God your game is about to die just stop updating it keeps getting worse with each update

[Rocket_Raccoon_XXX 1,507]

Noice.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

Hey, nice feedback, let me address all of your concerns :)

 

First of all, Freeze will face further changes and power balance will be addressed.

 

Regarding Freeze overall position in the game balance, there is a history to it. I do not now if you are acquainted to it but long story short — freeze got freeze problem. From the very beginning its core mechanic was, well, toxic to put it mildly. First versions of Freeze could put a 30 seconds debuff on enemy tanks. Over the years we tried to change it in various ways from not very smart, such as making it to freeze only turret but not the hull, to somewhat acceptable, such as it was before recent changes.

 

It is indeed the Juggernaut who brought this issue back to my attention. But is wasn’t enough to force changes. You see, while it’s state was ‘somewhat acceptable’ it wasn’t in a good place. Freeze balance is always limited by its freezing power in one and one direction only — if a Freeze can force enemy tank to stop it always wins regardless of its damage or energy capacity. If a Freeze can not force enemy tank to stop it is not doing its job and nobody use it. There was literally only one balance lever — how many tanks should Freeze kill, before it’s energy runs dry. You can’t make much fun out of that.

 

Current iteration of changes tackle the problem with new approach — while freeze still can make difference in base defence by slowing down enemy tanks, it can no longer render them completely useless. It is the same old problem of counterplay which is very important for pvp games — a player should have a counterplay to every mechanic that might be used against him. This is why general direction of this change will remain as it is — enemy tanks will have the option to fight back. It is not only a proper way to address counterplay but enables back all of the other levers of balance — damage, range, energy capacity. I might even consider making a full stop at max freeze.

 

I understand if you don’t like huge gameplay change that makes enemy tanks no longer powerless against your Freeze but please try to understand my concerns as well.

 

Speaking of huge gameplay changes, I need to address this concern as well.

 

You might’ve noticed that most of recent balance changes are made in small incremental way. Which makes Freeze to really stand out. Way is that, you ask. There are rather boring reasons to it. The rest of items that are being changed has its mechanics set as they are. We are only pushing balance slightly here and there to keep overall performance in check.

 

Freeze got its mechanics changed. This is why so called shock change is used. It would make really awkward situation if every balance patch Freeze’s freeze power would go down and down with each change. Like... when are we going to stop doing this? Why are they keep making it worse? Da hell is going on in Russia, vodka rain?? This patch immediately changed Freeze mechanics and gameplay making it possible to proceed with balance from new perspective. This is why we used shock changes. We didn't wanted to nerf Freeze, this is when small incremental changes are used, we wanted to make it different.

 

There is whole another story on why Freeze changes has its influence on other freezing mechanics in the game. I’d like it to be changed as well to keep an option to make damage avoidance where it’s appropriate. For now, Freeze is in the priority.

 

And yet... you just did.   Reminds me of the way Vulcan was neutered because the programmers could not figure out how to solve afterburn issue.

 

ive been playing tanki since 2011 and have been playing with freeze for 6 years now. in the current meta, light hulls are really bad. freeze worked perfectly to balance them out which made fun combos like wasp freeze and hornet freeze viable in modes like ctf and even DM. not only does this update make freeze useless, but it makes light hulls more useless now which just keeps making your game more and more unbalanced.

 

 

 

first you guys ruin gameplay with overdrives and now gold events are ruined with drones and overdrives, i just really dont get it, this game used to be so much simpler and so much more fun but you guys keep ruining and ruining i really dont know why? pleease just tell me why you guys love ruining your game? we all miss the old days of gold events with dictator pileups and wasps flinging into golds....and now.. just pressing a button and pushing with 17 other mammoths under the dropzone. please reverse this stupid freeze update, freeze is already easily countered by pro players just put it back to how it was again i dont understand why you guys love and enjoy to ruin things like you did with isidas self heal, gold events, and now freeze. the idea of freeze being able to circle enemies was perfectly balanced and involved skill and wasnt overpowered whatsoever as a person using it for 6 years, i know, please just stop the igorance and fix your game, please for the love of God your game is about to die just stop updating it keeps getting worse with each update

 

 

And yet I see lots and lots of Hornet Rails running around with LCR one-shotting medium hulls.  Can't be all that bad...

 

How does a nerf to freeze make light hulls more useless?  That one combo?  Sure.  But there's many combos 

[arnav0506 2,777]

^{can a mod pls convert this to image C:?}

M2 Freeze + M3 wasp (reflects in that GS), and I still managed to capture both the flags in the 2:0 showdown that my team won (This is after the update)

I dunno - is freeze still OP or was I lucky enough?

Edited October 28, 2019 by ControlledChaos
Done. ;)

[Bydo 20,123]

seeing we have freeze changed . now its time to change firebird . seeing everyone has change to that one now .

[muffinman361 97]

And yet... you just did.   Reminds me of the way Vulcan was neutered because the programmers could not figure out how to solve afterburn issue.

 

 

And yet I see lots and lots of Hornet Rails running around with LCR one-shotting medium hulls.  Can't be all that bad...

 

How does a nerf to freeze make light hulls more useless?  That one combo?  Sure.  But there's many combos

 

Anyone with a brain can run away with a fast hull and get kills with hornet or wasp and a long range gun as long as they keep a distance. if you have balls your going to fight face to face with other tanks with freeze, dive into their base with freeze, freeze their entire team and run away with the flag. You can’t play like this anymore after the update, forcing you to play long range like a wuss, removing more skill from the game by the day

[Guest]

Get rid of Mammoth OD xD

[wolverine848 13,097]

topic should be renamed wolverine rants, but otherwise some nice updates and some questionable ones

Triggered much?  Which main is this an alt for - want to know which account is still bitter over something I've said in the past...  :wacko:

 

Anyone with a brain can run away with a fast hull and get kills with hornet or wasp and a long range gun as long as they keep a distance. if you have balls your going to fight face to face with other tanks with freeze, dive into their base with freeze, freeze their entire team and run away with the flag. You can’t play like this anymore after the update, forcing you to play long range like a wuss, removing more skill from the game by the day

So you are upset that you can no longer destroy an entire team by yourself?   

 

You realize they nerfed isida 3 years ago for pretty much the same reason, right?

 

But you didn't really answer my question... how does nerfing freeze (for the record - going from 90% to 20% was too far - read my other posts on this) make all light hulls useless?  Why would a light hull try to go face-to-face?  They were never designed for that.

[muffinman361 97]

Anyone with a brain can run away with a fast hull and get kills with hornet or wasp and a long range gun as long as they keep a distance. if you have balls your going to fight face to face with other tanks with freeze, dive into their base with freeze, freeze their entire team and run away with the flag. You can’t play like this anymore after the update, forcing you to play long range like a wuss, removing more skill from the game by the day

Triggered much?  Which main is this an alt for - want to know which account is still bitter over something I've said in the past...  :wacko:

 

 

So you are upset that you can no longer destroy an entire team by yourself?   

 

You realize they nerfed isida 3 years ago for pretty much the same reason, right?

 

But you didn't really answer my question... how does nerfing freeze (for the record - going from 90% to 20% was too far - read my other posts on this) make all light hulls useless?  Why would a light hull try to go face-to-face?  They were never designed for that.

 

You’re wrong, light hulls with freeze was designed as an offensive favorite for ctf for stealing flags, it was possible to freeze some defenders and escape without getting killed. Also, I said FREEZE the entire team, not DESTROY.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Get rid of Mammoth OD xD

Why Taspen? Tell us why.

Edited October 27, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[wolverine848 13,097]

You’re wrong, light hulls with freeze was designed as an offensive favorite for ctf for stealing flags, it was possible to freeze some defenders and escape without getting killed. Also, I said FREEZE the entire team, not DESTROY.

Stealing flags and going "face-to-face" are not the same thing. Freezing a couple defenders to get away?  Sure - that is reasonable.

But the ability to freeze an "entire team" is certainly OP.  

 

I have freeze on my alt account - I like it.  The drop to 20% freeze on turrets is too big a nerf.  But it did need  a tweak.

 

Nah not triggered, just joking. TSY_the_crazy is the main

Not sure what I've said to either account before.  But OK.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Stealing flags and going "face-to-face" are not the same thing. Freezing a couple defenders to get away?  Sure - that is reasonable.

But the ability to freeze an "entire team" is certainly OP.  

 

I have freeze on my alt account - I like it.  The drop to 20% freeze on turrets is too big a nerf.  But it did need  a tweak.

 

 

Not sure what I've said to either account before.  But OK.

They should've made the freezing effect an upgradeable parameter. Nerfing it at m0 and m1 and buffing it at m3 and m4.

 

I was planning on using it again on my KillerDiesel account, but since the freeze effect got nerfed to the ground, the amount of crystals MUing it to M2 5/10 went down n the toilet for nothing. RIP.

[wolverine848 13,097]

They should've made the freezing effect an upgradeable parameter. Nerfing it at m0 and m1 and buffing it at m3 and m4.

 

I was planning on using it again on my KillerDiesel account, but since the freeze effect got nerfed to the ground, the amount of crystals MUing it to M2 5/10 went down n the toilet for nothing. RIP.

I agree.

 

And HR's explanation about the magnitude of the change was... gibberish.

[r_Given6 859]

I kind of see why there was a sudden change instead of continuous minor tweaks to nerf Freeze. But why are you waiting to level it out now??

Buffing a turret continuously with minor changes won't attract criticism. Hope that Freeze isn't left in the low like Isida.

[Michael828 816]

Thanks for nerfing Freeze. That turret is devastating in lower ranks and is still a real pain in ranks like my own. Great change imo.

 

And at last, we have a different type of mission. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Yes Copenhagen, show them that Freeze still got it. 

 

[lssimo 1,559]

You never said anything ;p

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Thanks for nerfing Freeze. That turret is devastating in lower ranks and is still a real pain in ranks like my own. Great change imo.

 

I don't see how that was a great change. Maybe for non freeze users. But for loyal freeze users it has to be the worst case scenario for them. Also this change just makes freeze even more pointless than choosing dictator or smoky and cryo rounds.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

Patch update 10/25/2019

 

Freeze Update

 

The Patch update not only changed the performance of the freeze turret,  it also has made the Shock Freeze alteration inoperable.  The description of the alt is pretty specific;  Quickly and Effectively turns tank into solid and immoble pieces of ice.   

 

http://prntscr.com/pol5zs

 

Shock Freeze now kind of slows down tanks and they can still move and turn their turrets.  So,   was this patch update intended to nerf the 200k crystal alteration?  It would be like having magnums with the mine alt stop dropping mines. 

 

Please correct this nerfing of the shock freeze alt or make an announcement that the shock freeze alt is no longer valid and kindly refund players the 200k crystals they paid to buy said alt.

100% - they need to do something for Shock Freeze, it is now useless! And Cryo Rounds too. At least give Shock Freeze the ability to Freeze turrets again or it is the most worthless alteration in the game.

 

Sorry to say that now Freeze now has the worst alterations of all turrets - the Master Seargent High - Pressure pump one is the only one worth using, Corrosive Mix is exactly the same as Incidendiary Mix Firebird except with less damage and less energy, and Shock Freeze still has 50% less damage while being now unable to prevent damage.

Edited October 29, 2019 by DestrotankAI9

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

first they ruined isida, and i knew it was only a matter of time before they would ruin freeze. it wasnt an 'if,' but 'when'. they also ruined the past 6 gold events and all future gold events because of lifeguard drones and mammoth. im glad i quit the game because i knew it was going to get worse and worse by the day

 

ive been playing tanki since 2011 and have been playing with freeze for 6 years now. in the current meta, light hulls are really bad. freeze worked perfectly to balance them out which made fun combos like wasp freeze and hornet freeze viable in modes like ctf and even DM. not only does this update make freeze useless, but it makes light hulls more useless now which just keeps making your game more and more unbalanced. first you guys ruin gameplay with overdrives and now gold events are ruined with drones and overdrives, i just really dont get it, this game used to be so much simpler and so much more fun but you guys keep ruining and ruining i really dont know why? pleease just tell me why you guys love ruining your game? we all miss the old days of gold events with dictator pileups and wasps flinging into golds....and now.. just pressing a button and pushing with 17 other mammoths under the dropzone. please reverse this stupid freeze update, freeze is already easily countered by pro players just put it back to how it was again i dont understand why you guys love and enjoy to ruin things like you did with isidas self heal, gold events, and now freeze. the idea of freeze being able to circle enemies was perfectly balanced and involved skill and wasnt overpowered whatsoever as a person using it for 6 years, i know, please just stop the igorance and fix your game, please for the love of God your game is about to die just stop updating it keeps getting worse with each update

Harsh, but I agree with many of your points. In the current meta, light hulls are weak (although Hornet overdrive is of course VERY powerful which makes Railgun or Magnum/Hornet etc. powerful), but aside from that with how much burst damage there is at high ranks with alterations and drones Light hulls very often get one shot - another factor is with the higher rate of fire at high ranks there are more impacts/second so there is more impact force to deal with. Freeze and Hornet or wasp was great and offered skill-rewarding gameplay, where you were a glass cannon, but with skill you could try to avoid as much damage as possible. Now the Freeze gameplay like that is ruined - you can still do well with Freeze but it only works well now on a Medium Hull, you simply have to "brute force" your opponents down with raw damage. Sure you can still do that, but Freeze was all about avoiding damage and good positioning - now its a much more dull turret to play, I would hate to see this change compensated with more damage turning Freeze into a clone of other turrets, and with a mindless playstyle.

 

I do see that there should be more counterplay options against it in some situations though - I think 50% turret freezing would be fine, or as I suggested make it take much more time to Freeze the turret than to Freeze the hull - i.e. Change the rate of Freezing per second on the turret to 0.15 or so (was 0.6), and keep hull freezing rate at 0.6. Bring the maximum Freeze possible back up to 90%. Then players will have a good amount of time to fight back before fully frozen - and this change will help light hull freeze players more than medium hull, light hull freeze players were the ones made fairly weak by this nerf.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Got my first "Damage enemies" weekly mission. 1.25 Million damage. 

 

[Michael828 816]

I don't see how that was a great change. Maybe for non freeze users. But for loyal freeze users it has to be the worst case scenario for them. Also this change just makes freeze even more pointless than choosing dictator or smoky and cryo rounds.

Well yes it's a great change for non-Freeze users, those who stood so little chance against it when attacked from behind. 

 

Also, that's a bit pessimistic, Freeze still has an effect which you can use anytime in battle, unlike the other methods of freezing.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Well yes it's a great change for non-Freeze users, those who stood so little chance against it when attacked from behind. 

 

Also, that's a bit pessimistic, Freeze still has an effect which you can use anytime in battle, unlike the other methods of freezing.

Problem with Devs is... it's all or nothing.   That long-winded speach about doing major changes because minor ones don't work was laughable.

 

They should have tried going from 90% turret-slow to ~ 50% turret-slow.  Now, anyone with freeze protection will not even notice their turret being affected.  Freeze has been gutted.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

The simple and only explanation is that greedy Tanki wants to force players that use Freeze and others that have fully MUed protection from Freeze to move to different equipment and start the entire upgrading process again.  It has happened many times before; Twins, Vulcan, Magnum, Isida (it has made a bit of a comeback with a few buffs)., and others.  They used to do this every couple of months......The Turret Du Jour

 

When Tanki talks about balance they don't mean what we players assume means "trying to be equal".  Tanki actually means re-balance and they add or subtract weight as they see fit to promote sales.

Same old, same old, history repeating.

 

 

Tanki will mess with this game for no reason at all, it's institutionalized within the company. Create churn, stir up the player base (notice I didn't say the game, just how players play it, nothing creative or new or better, just changes) Solution, pick what you like to play with, MU it, protect it, and just ride the wave.

 

Seriously, as simple as that.

 

"Don't cave in just for the win."

 

Just play, and when it's hard to play, play less, and in doing so, BUY LESS.  C'mon people, it's easy to put your money where you mouth is, and even easier not to.  Play less, play only when you feel like the game is treating you fair, and just roll with it.  Send developers a message.  "I play like this, I like this kind of game play, when you take it away, I'm not going running to the the next 'in style thing' just to win."  You want the good stuff, sure, then some pay to play, but never pay to win.  All you freeze players, go on, take a vacay from Tanki, play once a week, don't drug as often if you're wasting it anyways, only when you have a chance.  SPEND LESS, insist on better, better spending on thing of value to you, it's that simple.

 

Understand, I'm a dyed in the wool Shafter, it's all I really play, it's all I like to play, and I don't drug.  This update is the BOMB for Shaft players with the right ALTs, and I'm still sitting here telling you, NOPE, it won't last, We'll get nerfed again, and someone else will rise to the top of the heap.  Don't buy into the hype.  Common sense folks, common sense.

[OKDad70 862]

160k damage in one mode is too much. Mediocre reward for about 10 matches for good players in one mode, maybe 15 matches for a weak player, and that doesn't count however many more matches required for the other missions.