category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:11 PM, Warpriest said:

There is a reason why Crusader is so rare in the game now, and mainly only show up in modes like Siege where the OD is definitely gonna hit something even if it missed. Paladin is simply the superior counter part of it.

I've actually seen a noticeable increase in the number of Crusaders I see in battles recently, in all modes. So much so that getting a screen freeze (mobile bug with the icicle) has been become noticeably more common. 

[Cleric 1,385]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, PirateSpider said:

I mean if the enemy is a light or medium user, then maybe its best to not use it against them because of their speed. Its recommended to use it against heavy hulls. Its especially useful against titan domes, since it doesn't need to be within range, just a clear line of sight.

Another thing to note is that since the cannon is lower than the turret, its best not to use it against enemies who are on a higher elevation than you. But it should be fine to use it against enemies who are on a lower elevation than you.

Since crusaders OD has one of the fastest charging rates in the game, then improperly using it becomes less detrimental compared to ODs with longer charge rates like say Viking for example.

This is exactly why Crusader's OD sucks. There are so many things that need to consider when using it, making it very situational. Like the fact that it is only effective against heavy hull is bad enough. The fast recharge rate doesn't help much either, when people are missing it half of the time

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/25/2023 at 7:52 AM, Warpriest said:

This is exactly why Crusader's OD sucks. There are so many things that need to consider when using it, making it very situational. Like the fact that it is only effective against heavy hull is bad enough. The fast recharge rate doesn't help much either, when people are missing it half of the time

Your perception of crusader seems to be that it should be this overpowered ability like the others. If that is the case, then you need to look at differently.

Think of it as basically a secondary turret with a very long reload. Think of it as a weapon that can somewhat allow melee to short ranged turrets bypass their range limits.

[Cleric 1,385]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:14 PM, PirateSpider said:

Your perception of crusader seems to be that it should be this overpowered ability like the others. If that is the case, then you need to look at differently.

Think of it as basically a secondary turret with a very long reload. Think of it as a weapon that can somewhat allow melee to short ranged turrets bypass their range limits.

 

Let me quote the official description, hence the design philosophy of the OD from wiki:

Quote

 Use its overdrive to shoot a big icicle which can neutralize enemy tanks at large distances.

Quote

Crusader’s unique overdrive shoots a sharp icicle. It flies very fast and shatters ice when it hits a static obstacle,

Crusader - Tanki Online Wiki (tankiwiki.com)

 

The keyword here is "large distance" and "flies very fast". This is what it is supposed to do. It never meant to be "a weapon that can somewhat allow melee to short ranged turrets bypass their range limits". Not to mention it also suck at close range thanks to the splash damage. What you are suggesting is what it IS DOING. What I'm suggesting is what it SHOULD BE DOING.

 

And in case you are missing the concept of an ULT, of course it should be "OP" in a sense that it should be reliably instant kill a single target from a far. There is a reason why such ability is commonly refers as "ultimate", though the Devs give it a fancy name. As for the balance between the ULTs, there are too many ways to balance that. e.g. increasing the charge needed, remove the splash damage, etc.. But the ultimate point is, the current implementation of the Crusader ULT is completely wrong, it should not, and not supposed to be the most effective in short to mid-range. That's Paladin's domain. It should be a long range sniping tool, but it sucks at it currently

 

 

p.s.  

On 5/25/2023 at 7:09 AM, PirateSpider said:

Crusader isn't meant to be used at short range. 

  

On 5/25/2023 at 11:14 PM, PirateSpider said:

Think of it as a weapon that can somewhat allow melee to short ranged turrets bypass their range limits.

You do have a clue what you are suggesting right?

It's not meant to be used at short range, but I should think of it as a short-range turret that can bypass range limit.

Ah..... what?

Edited May 25, 2023 by Warpriest

[Me0w_XP 523]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:36 PM, Warpriest said:

It's not meant to be used at short range, but I should think of it as a short-range turret that can bypass range limit.

Ah..... what?

I assume what he means is that using Crusader OD allows you to fire a long-distance shot even if you're using a short range turret.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:37 PM, Me0w_XP said:

I assume what he means is that using Crusader OD allows you to fire a long-distance shot even if you're using a short range turret.

Yep, and short ranged ODs like hunter, hopper, wasp, and mammoth are good for mid to long range users who want to solve their close range weaknesses.

On 5/25/2023 at 10:36 AM, Warpriest said:

You do have a clue what you are suggesting right?

It's not meant to be used at short range, but I should think of it as a short-range turret that can bypass range limit.

Ah..... what?

Read Above ^

On 5/25/2023 at 10:36 AM, Warpriest said:

And in case you are missing the concept of an ULT, of course it should be "OP" in a sense that it should be reliably instant kill a single target from a far. There is a reason why such ability is commonly refers as "ultimate", though the Devs give it a fancy name. As for the balance between the ULTs, there are too many ways to balance that. e.g. increasing the charge needed, remove the splash damage, etc.. But the ultimate point is, the current implementation of the Crusader ULT is completely wrong, it should not, and not supposed to be the most effective in short to mid-range. That's Paladin's domain. It should be a long range sniping tool, but it sucks at it currently

 

I probably would've agreed with you that its meant to be an ultimate ability if the splash damage dealt more damage. But since it doesnt, then its most likely meant to be like a secondary weapon.

And I don't know about you, but it does just fine for me.

[Cleric 1,385]

On 5/26/2023 at 9:39 AM, PirateSpider said:

Yep, and short ranged ODs like hunter, hopper, wasp, and mammoth are good for mid to long range users who want to solve their close range weaknesses.

AKA, solo ult as soon someone gets close. That's the worse way of using a ULT in a team play (although there is hardly any in this game). Especially when ULTs like Hunter, Wasp, and Mammoth are meant for multi-kill and CC and are pretty good at it. Many just waste it on one person just because they are so afraid of getting killed. If that's what you call "solve their weaknesses", you do you. But there is a reason why people with these combos don't usually do well (excluding the case with an OP aug. For those cases, it is the aug doing its job), trying to be jack-of-all-trade in 99% of the game is usually a bad idea.

 

On 5/26/2023 at 9:39 AM, PirateSpider said:

I probably would've agreed with you that its meant to be an ultimate ability if the splash damage dealt more damage. But since it doesnt, then its most likely meant to be like a secondary weapon.

You do have no clue about what ultimate is...

It doesn't have to be a super OP ability with an extremely long cooldown. It can be a simple one-off strike that is more impactful than a normal attack/skill with a slightly longer cool down. There are many of such examples. e.g. Tracer's and Reinhardt's ultimate from Overwatch.

 

But the point is, Crusader's ULT is meant to be a long-range sniping tool. And it failed to do so. Some people may get used to its current implementation, and make it work with in close to mid-range, that's normal. But it doesn't change the fact that Crusader's OD is not doing what it is supposed to do.

 

But at the end of the day, Crusader's ULT has been staying as is for ages. It is never about what we think. It is about what the Devs think. So this discussion is pointless in a sense.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Warpriest

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:50 PM, Warpriest said:

doesn't have to be a super OP ability with an extremely long cooldown. It can be a simple one-off strike that is more impactful than a normal attack/skill with a slightly longer cool down. There are many of such examples. e.g. Tracer's and Reinhardt's ultimate from Overwatch.

And that's what crusader is doing right now. Having more impact than a normal attack/skill. Its ok though, some people just aren't good at some equipment.

[Cleric 1,385]

Back to the Crusader's OD topic, my thought still stands.

1. It is designed for long-range, but the current implementation makes it works best in close range (i.e. approx the range of twins, hammer, etc) and sometimes mid-range if the target is stationary.
   Cause: slow projectile speed
2. The splash damage makes it impossible to be used in the melee range.
   It makes sense if it does work in the long range. Unfortunately, it doesn't
3. Situational, compared to other ODs
   1. The hull itself is too unstable, a common characteristic of hover hulls, but that greatly affects Crusader's ability to aim its OD in long range. Something that all other hover hulls don't have to worry about.
   2. Vertical aiming angle is not the greatest, as @PirateSpider suggested, shooting it from a low ground doesn't usually work well.
      Something that should have been mitigated if the OD does work well in long range

 

There is a reason why some hulls are more popular than others, by observation, Crusader seems to be the rarest medium hull in MM games. This makes sense, if someone has to choose a medium hover hull, i.e. between Paladin and Crusader, the former is clearly the superior choice for most cases.

 

The good news is, if it hits, then it's a really good OD. The bad news is if people are playing the way the OD is supposed to work, i.e. long-range, then properly half of the time will be a miss. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Warpriest

[NikmanGT 4,362]

Kindly have a respectful discussion, further provocations will be removed as well. 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:24 AM, NikmanGT said:

Kindly have a respectful discussion, further provocations will be removed as well. 

My bad, I got carried away there.

 

Anyway, I can confirm that crusader is great to have in your garage. Like I've been saying, if you think of its OD as basically a secondary weapon rather than a super ultimate ability then you should do just fine.

Wasp bomb is the same way too. And technically so is hunters OD.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:51 PM, PirateSpider said:

Wasp:

Healing Bomb:

Pros - Heals nearby teammates and puts a positive gradual healing status effect on them, including the user.

Cons - Does not damage enemies or inflict negative status effects.

 

Faster detonation time.

Literally the weakest hull with the slowest time to detonate.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Jeers4U

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:45 PM, DragonKnight said:

no rule states that anywhere

Well no, but we should make an attempt at giving constructive feedback when we post in the I&S section. The mods are trying to encourage it, isn't that right @Maf, @NikmanGT?

 

On 5/30/2023 at 6:33 PM, Jeers4U said:

Faster detonation time.

Literally the weakest hull with the slowest time to detonate.

 

It is true that attacking the enemy base does get difficult at times. With a healing bomb you could probably just stay in your base and heal teammates, lol.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 5/30/2023 at 11:07 AM, PirateSpider said:

With a healing bomb you could probably just stay in your base and heal teammates, lol.

Not many rewards in the game for healing, though.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 5/30/2023 at 6:21 PM, Jeers4U said:

Not many rewards in the game for healing, though.

Yeah. Unfortunately. But hey, it'll have some strategic uses if we're not counting how it'll reward us. If its the thing that helps us win the match, it technically counts as a reward, doesn't it?

[Jeers4U 665]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, PirateSpider said:

If its the thing that helps us win the match, it technically counts as a reward, doesn't it?

Based on the matches I've been put in for the last while, there isn't many other players I'd choose to heal...

[Incorp 2,084]

long time no suggest anything lol

So this time Im going to suggest soemthing about the jugg's OD.

Lets say that your team juggernaut died with 58% OD already reloaded. Right now, the next juggernaut wont 'inherit' the OD. Instead, the OD starts over from 0

Im suggesting that instead of restarting the OD, why not pass it on to the next juggernaut player? That way lets say the base is being bombarded by enemies, and your juggernaut just got killed cuz it never had time to activate the OD. Well, the next jugg has the OD at his disposal, so maybe survival  chances are higher. Also, thid helps against annoying crisis users who are basically immortal sometimes and just xamp in your base. So whaddya think? Comments are always welcome

[DragonKnight 414]

Just use nuke energy to get instant OD recharged 

But I do get your point tho, not a bad idea tho, I like it tho

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:22 PM, ekf said:

 

On 2/5/2023 at 10:05 PM, Broocker said:

 

On 2/19/2023 at 3:01 AM, ekf said:

 

On 3/15/2023 at 4:25 PM, Cleric said:

 

On 5/1/2023 at 1:03 AM, ekf said:

 

On 5/24/2023 at 5:58 PM, BullyMaguire said:

 

On 6/15/2023 at 7:50 AM, Incorp said:

 

On 5/8/2023 at 4:21 AM, PirateSpider said:

 

Topic Merged

[pocrettttt 277]

So, i was thinking about it, why not? if you burn iron enough,he will be more fragile, if you freeze an object, he can break more easy

"What's the proposal then?"

Simple, when a tanker reachs % of burn/freeze state, both hull forces will be affected, tankers affected by freeze will receive more impact from turrets(Weight -50%),and burned tankers  will be pushed more easily(-50% power)

[It_Aint_Too_Late 144]

A small suggestion which I would think would improve dictator's efficiency and make the hull worth using. Armadillo is very common now and supercharge isn't very helpful currently. So currently dictator overdrives gives the player 20 reputation points if the overdrive was shared with at least 1 teammate. That's somewhat useless considering the fact that the overdrive charges quite slowly and is activated once in 5 mins or so. 
So here goes my suggestion:
Dictator overdrive gives 10 reputation points each for every ally the overdrive is shared with. For example, if the overdrive is shared with 5 allies, the player gets 50 reputation points. 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

Siege mode:  Isida Dictator rep points spam soon

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:31 AM, It_Aint_Too_Late said:

Dictator overdrive gives 10 reputation points each for every ally the overdrive is shared with. For example, if the overdrive is shared with 5 allies, the player gets 50 reputation points. 

It was like this, but it got changed. It is indeed not that powerful if we consider armadillo, so i guess the best buff it could get is just to simply reduce the recharge time, so that you can use it more often

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 9/10/2023 at 10:01 PM, mjmj5558 said:

so i guess the best buff it could get is just to simply reduce the recharge time, so that you can use it more often

That won't be much feasible because Driver augment already has the same function.

What happens is that long range turret or medium range turret with projectile as shots (excluding Vulcan) are much affected by the Armadillo module, while melee turrets on supercharge deal a hefty damage even if the player has armadillo. Thus, a parameter to increase damage on Supercharge effect if the tanker has a long range turret can be introduced to compensate the downgrade.

[Bowser448 321]

I noticed that long range is large part of tanki's game nowadays. Whenever I use firebird, freeze, or isida, everyone runs away and it is very tough to get kills because your range is too short! Dead tanks with collision is already hard enough to deal with when using close range turrets and people that run away is another. I think tanki should reduce the speed and acceleration that tanks move backwards.