category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

3 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

That's gonna be tough to explain to players. The inconsistency of their damage numbers would frustrate them for sure. 

Devs made many things confusing to understand in the past year or so. So one more confusing thing won't hurt all that much.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

36 minutes ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Or 87.5% protection ignore if the hornet has no damage boosts, 75% protection ignore if the hornet is using Double Damage, and 50% ignore if it has both double damage and booster drone.

It looks good in numbers but...  50%!?! Thats tooooo many

[mjmj5558 2,346]

I think protection modules has to be half-efficent when a hornet is overdriving. . 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

6 hours ago, Given said:

What about updating on the idea, that:

When a Hornet with OD + DD fires at a tank with DA and a module against that turret (say, with X% protection), they will deal the standard damage + [100-(50+X)]% of the standard damage.

Or, in other words, the protection of DA and Modules applies to only the extra damage given by DD. 

Effective against the exploitation of the overdrive.

What I'm getting from that under those circumstances, the Hornet will deal 50% damage if it has DD activated against someone with 50% protection. Meaning that having DD activating and not having it activated would deal the same damage. That sounds...bad. 

 

Of course, this is only one scenario and you did not touch on what would happen if certain factors were to be omitted, say, if the enemy had only DA or the module at the time, or for the lower ranks etc. 

 

The main thing I'm foreseeing with this is many XP and melee-range players being upset. 

The main problem here is the medium and long range turrets with the OD, right? Melee turrets actively put themselves to being one-shotted to get damage while the others can peek-a-boo or keep distance. Nerfing the OD like this may just encourage more longer-ranged turrets to be used with Hornet. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/11/2020 at 8:56 AM, Given said:

Reducing its protection ignore would just lead to more complaints from angry players. So I suggest a different idea:

When a Hornet user uses its Overdrive and equips double damage, they will only deal 1.5 times the standard damage against tanks with double armour.

Well this is reducing its protection ignoring % when you look at it from another angle, and yours translates to what Diesel is suggesting - a 75% protection-ignoring ability (with DA and protection modules only for yours). 

Edited January 14, 2020 by TheCongoSpider

[r_Given6 859]

7 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

What I'm getting from that under those circumstances, the Hornet will deal 50% damage if it has DD activated against someone with 50% protection. Meaning that having DD activating and not having it activated would deal the same damage. That sounds...bad. 

50% of the extra damage plus the standard damage. That means 1.5× base damage. If the enemy has DA, too, then it becomes 1.25× base damage.

Having only DA or a Module would also protect against the extra damage.

 

Also realised I put (50+X)% Protection against extra damage. A 50% Module would make that 100%. 

I actually meant to make it Extra damage × 50% × (100-X)%; so the minimum damage a Hornet with OD can deal is 1.25× Std Dmg.

[r_Given6 859]

8 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Well this is reducing its protection ignoring % when you look at it from another angle, and yours translates to what Diesel is suggesting - a 75% protection-ignoring ability (with DA and protection modules only for yours). 

 

On 1/12/2020 at 10:28 AM, Given said:

That would, of course, lead to lots of complaints about the 'ruin of the only benefit of the OD'. What I'm suggesting is a 75% ignore of the Double Armour an enemy has equipped, which is neither taking too much from it, nor letting it have, to some extent, its exploitative ability of one-shotting medium and heavy hulls. 

My suggestion only applies to the case where DD is used along with the overdrive. It basically transfers the protection of the enemy to the extra damage DD enables you to deal. 

Also, I had suggested a 75% protection ignore, against enemies with DA, for DD + Hornet OD users because that would deal 1.5× std dmg.

But now that protection modules are being considered, that can drop to 1.25× std dmg. 

So, the 75% might change to 87.5%.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Given

[mjmj5558 2,346]

My idea is that no nerf for hornet first nerf dictator

[natrolite 1,049]

On 1/12/2020 at 3:07 AM, DieselPlatinum said:

Hornet + fully MUed DHC railgun + Double Damage (booster drone may or may not be included) can wipe out a whole team of medium and light hulls. Basically it's a longer duration version of Vikings OD in a way.

 

LCR railgun with the same things can wipe out heavy hulls easily.

I can vouch for this. My main combo in MM is XP with Railgun's Large Calibre alt. People often underestimate just how potent this combo really is. At M4, I can one shot mediums hulls about 95% of the time with DP, even if they're M4. And while I can also one shot M4 heavy hulls, it's much rarer. As for when I equip Booster, it's pretty much impossible not to instantly kill a target (unless they have Lifeguard). As for Scout alt for Railgun, most of the people I've heard talk about it hail it as Railgun's best alt, but I usually disagree. I mean, why would you prefer shooting them half a dozen times when you can kill them instantly? Especially if you're dealing with Fire/Twins/Smoky. Scout is a nightmare to deal with, but it's not nearly as efficient as Large Calibre IMO.

 

All in all, although I do admit that Hornet has a uniquely vehement ability. It's still fairly balanced considering Viking literally has a loading hack and Hunter can immobilize and shut down an entire onslaught. As for a direct counter for turrets with a high DPS and Hornet; there's always Lifeguard you can count on!

[wolverine848 13,097]

24 minutes ago, classic-style-hiphop said:

I can vouch for this. My main combo in MM is XP with Railgun's Large Calibre alt. People often underestimate just how potent this combo really is. At M4, I can one shot mediums hulls about 95% of the time with DP, even if they're M4. And while I can also one shot M4 heavy hulls, it's much rarer. As for when I equip Booster, it's pretty much impossible not to instantly kill a target (unless they have Lifeguard). As for Scout alt for Railgun, most of the people I've heard talk about it hail it as Railgun's best alt, but I usually disagree. I mean, why would you prefer shooting them half a dozen times when you can kill them instantly? Especially if you're dealing with Fire/Twins/Smoky. Scout is a nightmare to deal with, but it's not nearly as efficient as Large Calibre IMO.

 

All in all, although I do admit that Hornet has a uniquely vehement ability. It's still fairly balanced considering Viking literally has a loading hack and Hunter can immobilize and shut down an entire onslaught. As for a direct counter for turrets with a high DPS and Hornet; there's always Lifeguard you can count on!

The solution is to buy a ridiculously expensive drone - and have that active every battle where it sucks away super-expensive batteries - all to counter an OverDrive that is given for free and just needs some inexpensive supplies?

 

Oh wait a sec... that was sarcasm... amirite?

 

(is scout the alt that lets Rail fire basically as fast as smoky?)

[natrolite 1,049]

10 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

The solution is to buy a ridiculously expensive drone - and have that active every battle where it sucks away super-expensive batteries - all to counter an OverDrive that is given for free and just needs some inexpensive supplies?

 

Oh wait a sec... that was sarcasm... amirite?

 

(is scout the alt that lets Rail fire basically as fast as smoky?)

I agree that it's not an easily obtainable solution, but it is a solution. You can't expect to have a countermeasure to an Overdrive ready at all times, and I'm not just talking about Hornet. Overdrives in general are meant to give their respective users an advantage when triggered, just how big of an advantage that is largely relies on how skilled the player is at using that ability. If you engage a player with an Overdrive active head-on, you shouldn't be surprised if you wind up dead. In my case, dealing with Hunter's OD was a massive headache until I learned how to deal with them - mainly by keeping my distance and running away should I spot them creeping my way

So, I wasn't being sarcastic when I said Hornet doesn't need a nerf, it sits comfortably among other Overdrives and its effectiveness ranges between being mildly good if used poorly to being a game-changer in the right hands, same as all other Overdrives.

 

And yes, Scout is the one that makes Rail fire super fast.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

Currently, I have't got time for it to do some statistics, but I'm sure iif I compare viking od to hornet od,  the numbers will very similar. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

1 hour ago, classic-style-hiphop said:

I can vouch for this. My main combo in MM is XP with Railgun's Large Calibre alt. People often underestimate just how potent this combo really is. At M4, I can one shot mediums hulls about 95% of the time with DP, even if they're M4. And while I can also one shot M4 heavy hulls, it's much rarer. As for when I equip Booster, it's pretty much impossible not to instantly kill a target (unless they have Lifeguard). As for Scout alt for Railgun, most of the people I've heard talk about it hail it as Railgun's best alt, but I usually disagree. I mean, why would you prefer shooting them half a dozen times when you can kill them instantly? Especially if you're dealing with Fire/Twins/Smoky. Scout is a nightmare to deal with, but it's not nearly as efficient as Large Calibre IMO.

 

All in all, although I do admit that Hornet has a uniquely vehement ability. It's still fairly balanced considering Viking literally has a loading hack and Hunter can immobilize and shut down an entire onslaught. As for a direct counter for turrets with a high DPS and Hornet; there's always Lifeguard you can count on!

Viking has to get into position while hunter has to get up close. Hornet can just activate it at any time and it'll still achieve the same result even if the player wastes half of it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

7 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

(is scout the alt that lets Rail fire basically as fast as smoky?)

It shoots as fast as Thunder. It still shoots faster than Thunder after the buff, but only by 0.02 seconds.

 

7 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

where it sucks away super-expensive batteries 

And repair kits. 

 

7 hours ago, classic-style-hiphop said:

 As for Scout alt for Railgun, most of the people I've heard talk about it hail it as Railgun's best alt, but I usually disagree. I mean, why would you prefer shooting them half a dozen times when you can kill them instantly? Especially if you're dealing with Fire/Twins/Smoky. Scout is a nightmare to deal with, but it's not nearly as efficient as Large Calibre IMO.

It's all in your preference tbh. We have Stock in the middle, with Scout on the left and LCR on the right.

 

With Stock, you have a small chance to one-shot a medium hull. 

With Scout, you can 2-shot the medium hull very quickly. 

With LCR, you're more than likely to one-shot the medium hull. 

 

LCR is great for that big one-time damage (and it's damage that I expect a long range turret to deal). 

Scout is great for keeping up the pressure on the enemy and capitalising on LCR and Stock's possible failures to one-shot the medium hull. Scout is Railgun with Thunder's firing rate, so it's like you're using a fixed-damage Thunder against them. And it doesn't have a penalty on impact force, so you can keep sending multiple shots to disorient enemies or to keep making them run into stuff while you whittle away their HP with each shot. 

 

Taking Booster into consideration, you'll get more out of it with Scout as the damage increase is enough to one-shot an unprotected medium hull and you get 2 shots before the effect ends. 

 

Out of the 2, I'd prefer Scout. Each outperforms the other in specific cases. 

 

5 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

and it'll still achieve the same result even if the player wastes half of it.

You can only really get teamwipes in 10 seconds with Gauss or Sledgehammer Thunder against grouped enemies. Every other turret requires the full 20 seconds to be the most effective. That's assuming you meant if they die 10 seconds into their Overdrive. You probably mean if they only shoot at enemies for 10 secnds of the Overdrive, don't you?

 

Viking has the innate damage boost to negate (not ignore) an enemy's DA or 50% protection module. Or meaning the enemy has either DA activated with no protection against the turret or 50% protection against the turret and no DA activated. 

 

Having DA and 50% protection gives you quadruple HP effectively. Viking OD + DD gives you 3x damage on non-melee turrets. Melee turrets get 4x damage with OD and DD. So melee turrets are the only ones able to completely negate (not ignore) an enemy's DA and 50% protection module. This is with the maximum possible defense. Not always will the enemies have protection against the Viking's turret, and the % protection in the lower ranks are less. And that's just damage for one shot. They get an increased firing rate on top of that. 

 

From experience, I do better with Viking Gauss and Twins than Hornet Gauss and Twins. Viking has that survivability that Hornet lacks and it shows itself when I get more non-Overdrive kills with it (and more kills in total). 

Edited January 16, 2020 by TheCongoSpider
Removed an accidental redundant sentence.

[123tim456back 195]

Viking and hornet is the easiest to compare.  

Viking:

- short duration

- high burst damage

- positioning

- longer recharge 

 

Hornet:

- long duration

- one shot potential 

- positioning, but easier(camp)

- fast recharge

- wallhacks

 

Hornet basically does the same thing as Viking, but the damage is spread out over a longer duration.  The fact that it camps balances out its lower health.  It also gets wallhacks, and charges faster.  

 

We can either slow down the recharge, not make it gain OD charge when it is active, or increase the duration whenever the hornet takes damage.  This will encourage less camping, although not really effective.  

Edited January 15, 2020 by 123tim456back

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Spoiler

 

It's easier to find and destroy 3 enemies in 20 seconds than it is to do so in 7 seconds. Also Viking has to stay exposed for the duration if it wants to make the most of its OD while hornet can just pop out a shot and then go back into cover.

Viking OD can be countered in so many ways, hornet is one of them. But hornet as is has no effective counter against it.

Spoiler

 

Or just nerf it's ignore ability.

[1M4U 72]

Hornet overdrive needed to be nerved. It's either ignoring the protection OR ignoring the supplies activated. It cannot be both because of spawn killing... Otherwise, increase the reload time for Hornet.

A lot people using hornet - Guass protection with Booster drone and literally puts titan dome to shame,

[rockey5 0]

please would you consider changing the overdrive features

i use the titan and smokey combo , i really like the combo but i hate the overdrive of the titan and i would prefer to use the over drive of hunter or viking instead , please can you change or make it an option to change over drivers for different vehicles because i really cant use the titan overdrive and it really bugs me that i have to use a different hull to change my over drive , please change it in the next ubdate so we can use different overdrives on different hulls and not change the whole hull it self.

 

thanks in advance and please make sure this change takes place

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

So there has been suggestions for alterations for over drives ever since it was announced that hulls would be getting unique over drives. Almost all of them got shot down due to many of them replacing abilities became they'd be almost impossible to counter.

My suggestion is for the alterations change a parameter or two to make the ability suit the players Play style a bit better.

For example-

Wasp:

1) removes timer but damage is nerfed by 80%.

2) increases timer to 5 seconds but damage is increased by 30%.

Hunter:

1) stun effect is increased to 7 seconds but enemy supply cool downs are nerfed to 10 seconds.

2) stun effect is nerfed to 1 second but enemy supply cool downs is increased to 60 seconds.

Viking:

1) damage boost removed but firing rate boost doubled.

2) firing rate boost removed but damage boost doubled.

Dictator:

1) supply duration increased to 60 seconds but OD charge replenishment is nerfed to 25%.

2) supply duration is nerfed to 15 seconds but OD charge replenishment is increased to 75%.

Titan:

1) dome size and reach radius nerfed by 50%, but duration is increased by 50%.

2) dome size and reach radius is increased by 50%, but duration is nerfed by 50%.

Mammoth:

1) touch radius is increased to 10 metres but speed boost is nerfed to 20%.

2) touch radius is nerfed to 4 metres but speed boost is increased to 80%.

[Tankist_Ali 5]

When will the new hull ares comes to tanki ?

 

 

[Maf 32,300]

Considering the total potential of overdrive alterations, this is extremely underwhelming. All you did is adjust the numbers on the current ODs, without introducing any real changes to how the OD gets used. I'd expect something a lot more radical, like:

• Wasp - throwable bomb with longer timer, possibly deals less damage and throws tanks instead.
• Hornet - location not revealed to enemy hornets, enemy radars, or while holding flag, but own radar removed.
• Hunter - applies maximum freezing effect to tanks as well as stopping, but doesn't remove supplies
• Viking - applies 30 degrees autoaim in all directions (vertical and horizontal), but rate of fire not increased
• Dictator - gives all nearby tanks +3000hp (on top of their current/max health), but doesn't affect supplies
• Titan - dome deals high damage (and/or reduces enemy damage) instead of protecting
• Mammoth - deals high fire damage to all tanks in a larger radius

Something like that.

[Maf 32,300]

3 hours ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

Why are you guys trying to turn this game into some sort of MOBA?

What do you mean? Tanki Online is already literally a MOBA by all definitions.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Spoiler

 

1) that's why the topic reads "parameter changing alterations for overdrives".

And they do bring a change in playstyle. The mammoth alterations that I listed are textbook examples. One makes it more defensive while the other allows a more aggressive gameplay.

2) most of your changes are practically upgrades. Except hornet and hunter changes.

[Maf 32,300]

1 hour ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

in a MOBA every player starts off equally and there are very specific objectives such as destroying towers, farming AI minions, etc. leading to the endgame where the enemy team’s core structure is destroyed, although there are variants of this.

Ok, it seems I was mistaken. Based on the acronym alone, Tanki definitely fits the description: a Multiplayer, Online, Battle Arena. But apparently the actual characteristics of a MOBA are very specific. 
Tanki is just a third-person arcade vehicle-based shooter.

But that brings up the question - how does this idea turn Tanki into a MOBA?

[Maf 32,300]

5 minutes ago, Ap3xA1pha said:

and even so-called “ultimate” abilities (such as in Overwatch)

But Overwatch isn't a MOBA, and a lot of action arcade games have started using an overdrive-like feature. It's a very common thing nowadays.

Tanki actually added a whole bunch of features, which have been proven to work well for such games: Premium account, Matchmaking, skins and shot effects, containers, challenges, overdrives, in-game currency and shop, animated full-screen interface...