category Ideas for Augments!

[Cor7y 13,862]

So basically apply the effect of freeze disabling boosted damage supply to firebird, but instead of disabling BD it disables BA.

No offense, but why make things even more complicated? There's more than enough augments in the game already as it is. (Until, of course the devs think of some even more ridiculous augments like stunning vulcan )

[LSHTV 229]

Freeze AP now looks like EMP,

It can disable armor by armor piercing effect

It can disable damage by freezing effect

It can slow down opponent by freezing effect

 

thats not all it even has big critical damage which looks like it has mine in it's turret... idk guys even I have it and I see how op it is when I am using it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

This augment has been underwhelming ever since its introduction, made even worse by the critical hit rate reduction in lower modifications of Smoky. Not only does it halve your precious critical damage, it halves your critical hit rate as well. You forcefully take longer to kill enemies for little gain. 

 

This suggestion is to go down the Railgun route by pushing its paramater closer to Stock and decreasing the efficacy of the status effect. For Stun Smoky, this will be done by removing the critical chance step penalty, reducing the critical damage penalty, and reducing the duration of the stun. 

 

Current:

Quote

Critical hits stun enemies for 3 seconds.

 

Critical chance step: -50%

 

Critical damage: -50%

 

New:

Quote

Critical hits stun enemies for 1 second.

 

Critical damage: -25%

 

[GENERALSpidy 6]

Tomohawk Missile Augments-      On Page 179 of Turrets  for Turret-  previously on 178

 

Freeze Missiles - 

-Pro-  -Advantages-    Fully Freezes target to max Frozen

-Con- -Disadvantages-    Missile to small to hit multiple targets unless they are stacked (2 targets only) 

 

Targeter Missiles-  

-Pro-  -Advantages-  -  When missiles are closer to Ground it can detect and move Towards the Target closest until it hits ground

-Con- -Disadvantages-   -  Missiles can miss its Range target 

 

Smoke Missiles -  Missiles have larger damage area can hit multiple targets but its Lower damage is due to the Smoke it creates when exploding

-Pro-  -Advantages-  -     Larger Explosive area , Creates Smoke on impact which makes it hard to see for at least 5 to 15 seconds 

-Con-  -Disadvantages-   -  25-50% Lower damage than stock

 

Multi-Warheads - <-- this Idea from V4 launcher Red alert 3

Switches the Turret  to launch a missile armed with cluster warheads, that splits up in mid-flight upon reentry , (has 2 different Missles

-Pro-  -Advantages-  -   Barrage can hit multiple targets at the Point of impact area

-Con-  -Disadvantages-   - 5 to 15 second Delay when Switching to Normal rockets , barrage is spread shot/means Lower damage

 

Larger Rockets-   Bigger rockets deal slightly more damage and has a bigger splash range of effect

  -Pro-  -Advantages-  -  big rockets can hit multiple targets 

-Con-  -Disadvantages-   -  Slower rockets take a while to land / explode

Edited June 15, 2022 by GENERALSpidy

[Incorp 2,084]

Ive been thinking sbout this for a while now. The idea is that the more you kill, the higher damage you deal. The upside is of course the increased damage. The downside is that until you reached a certain level of kills, you deal less damage than usual.

What do you guys think? Also I need a name for it, any suggestions are welcome :)

[NikmanGT 4,362]

So basically augment starts from Low damage to high damage in proportion to kills ?

For name, it could be......  Destructor or maybe Amplifier....... I don't know I am very bad in nomenclature.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

I am not quite satisfied with the change though I haven't used that augment thoroughly myself to make a detailed pros and cons.

But I am worried about the fact that reducing the stun to only 1 sec and increasing critical damage would make it too much similar to stock smoky (which you intend to make it) making the augment lose its effectiveness.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

12 minutes ago, nikunj04 said:

making the augment lose its effectiveness.

Except gaining that effectiveness in the first place takes too long and even gives the enemy more time to kill you in return. It crumbles against stun immunity compared to the other stun augments. This rework allows it to actually be able use its (shortened duration) stuns more consistently and not have to unnecessarily take much longer to kill targets. 

 

Basically Stun Smoky has too many penalties bringing it down which would have been fine for early 2021 but look where we have come now. 

[Iron_Man 2,376]

I don't think I really like this idea.

This augment doesn't really have any disadvantages to begin with. Yes, I do see that you've mentioned one, but in my opinion it is just a theoretical disadvantage. I can just self destruct once I reach that limit and come back fresh.

Also, to be honest, I really feel that what game needs right now aren't augments which give straight bonuses but ones those require skill to use. For instance AP Ricochet. It is perhaps the most fun and skill based augment.

Giving a straight bonus to damage is not something I really appreciate.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

1 minute ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Except gaining that effectiveness in the first place takes too long and even gives the enemy more time to kill you in return. It crumbles against stun immunity compared to the other stun augments. This rework allows it to actually be able use its (shortened duration) stuns more consistently and not have to unnecessarily take much longer to kill targets. 

 

Basically Stun Smoky has too many penalties bringing it down which would have been fine for early 2021 but look where we have come now. 

Oh yeah, fair point actually, I agree

[alkyng 3,080]

13 hours ago, Incorp said:

The downside is that until you reached a certain level of kills, you deal less damage than usual.

So from the second you will start feeling the difference after you killed some players, you notice that you have reached the limit and will start dealing lesser damage? 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

7 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

So from the second you will start feeling the difference after you killed some players, you notice that you have reached the limit and will start dealing lesser damage? 

No he means to say, you will at first deal less amount of damage even than the stock turret parameters itself, but as soon as you progress making kills without dying, your damage will start increasing.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

 

14 hours ago, Incorp said:

Ive been thinking sbout this for a while now. The idea is that the more you kill, the higher damage you deal. The upside is of course the increased damage. The downside is that until you reached a certain level of kills, you deal less damage than usual.

What do you guys think? Also I need a name for it, any suggestions are welcome :)

That sounds like Adrenaline with extra steps. How much damage will it start and end with? 

[B.A.B.I 643]

Yes!

[Incorp 2,084]

7 hours ago, Iron_Man said:

I don't think I really like this idea.

This augment doesn't really have any disadvantages to begin with. Yes, I do see that you've mentioned one, but in my opinion it is just a theoretical disadvantage. I can just self destruct once I reach that limit and come back fresh.

Also, to be honest, I really feel that what game needs right now aren't augments which give straight bonuses but ones those require skill to use. For instance AP Ricochet. It is perhaps the most fun and skill based augment.

Giving a straight bonus to damage is not something I really appreciate.

I don't think you understand my idea. My idea is, you start of with a decreased damage. Then as you kill, the more you kill the higher the damage you deal. Kinda like adrenaline as Congo said.

 

5 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

 

That sounds like Adrenaline with extra steps. How much damage will it start and end with? 

I really don't know, since you understand tanki balance more than I do, can you give a suggestion?

 

6 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

So from the second you will start feeling the difference after you killed some players, you notice that you have reached the limit and will start dealing lesser damage? 

I think you understood my idea wrongly like iron_man's understanding of my idea :) nnikunj04 explains it well.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

2 hours ago, At_Shin said:

You must note that smoky has a good reload speed. Once the enemy tank is stunned, you can shoot two more shots at them before the effect ends and hitting them with the 3rd shot is almost a guarantee. 

Yes I did take into account the recently increased firing rate. And yes, once they're stunned, which does not happen often due to RNG and how much you have to accumulate to a positive number. 

 

2 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Also, we need to remember that Supercharge effect exists. Couple that with this augment and you can easily stun my tanks quickly. 

Sure it's potent with Supercharge, which does not happen often in battle. It's restricted to one solo hull out of ten and can be given by another to all allies on the radius. The halved critical damage even keeps them alive longer than they need to be. Autocannon used to be very powerful outside of Supercharge and catastrophic inside of it. Stun Smoky isn't powerful outside of it and inside of it, it's an annoyance rather than a huge threat. 

 

2 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Sure, I wouldn't mind if it got raised critical damage but I don't think there's a need to remove the critical chance penalty just to stun players more frequently, though for shorter 1 second durations.

Why not? 

[Iron_Man 2,376]

Just now, Incorp said:

I don't think you understand my idea. My idea is, you start of with a decreased damage. Then as you kill, the more you kill the higher the damage you deal. Kinda like adrenaline as Congo said.

 

I really don't know, since you understand tanki balance more than I do, can you give a suggestion?

 

I think you understood my idea wrongly like iron_man's understanding of my idea :) nnikunj04 explains it well.

Agreed. I didn't understand, at least the way you intended me to. Thanks  for the explanation.
Even so, it is a pretty much straightforward augment.

We've got a lot of plain augments, so I don't see a reason why not. Well, why not?

 

[Abellia 504]

2 hours ago, At_Shin said:

IMO Stun Smoky is good enough as it is. You must note that smoky has a good reload speed. Once the enemy tank is stunned, you can shoot two more shots at them before the effect ends and hitting them with the 3rd shot is almost a guarantee. 

You hit them with three shots for free, and then your crit rate is at 10%. Railgun has a 50% chance to get stuns at that interval, and Striker has a 100% chance to get stuns at that interval. Smoky also has to actively engage during its stun duration to have a small chance to get its next stun off, whereas Railgun can hide during a good part of the Stun duration and Striker still has a 100% chance to get the stun with a longer gap, even if it choses to disengage.

2 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Sure, I wouldn't mind if it got raised critical damage but I don't think there's a need to remove the critical chance penalty just to stun players more frequently, though for shorter 1 second durations.

So instead of hitting someone 4 times, stunning them, and then killing them with one shot, you hit them 4 times, and then kill them with a crit? Brilliant.

It needs a buff right now, it takes far too long to get to its crit and it isn't rewarding because it doesn't enable you to do lots of damage relative to smoky to it nor set up the next stun, even though Railgun and Striker have the same flat chances to get the next stun, and they have no damage penalty. It isn't good for stopping overdrives, and it isn't good for stopping people trying to get the objective because of the low damage output.

If you buff it, you can either increase stun duration (makes fighting it terrible) or decrease crit rate penalty (makes fighting it terrible if you don't decrease stun duration which makes it terrible to play if you don't reduce the crit damage penalty). 

I'd rather opt for the second option, personally, because there's actually a chain of following changes that don't just result in "yeah this augment annoys people" whereas the first one results in it still being an inferior version of Stun Rail, just one that's more annoying. 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

As Congo said, stun is indeed too depended on its immunity. If the enemy has the said immunity, you can only deal damage like stock smoky.

Even if we increase the crit damage, the stun should be shifted to 2 seconds instead of 1.

[Abellia 504]

57 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

I prefer to use Stun smoky as an augment that allows easy escape from the enemy. Even if it does not crit much, when it does it helps me get away with the flag/ball by stopping the enemy. I think that if the stun duration got decreased to 1 second then that would not be possible.

Stun Striker and Rail beat the crap out of it in this role. Also, that's kind of the point - we shouldn't have long stun durations in the game. They're less fun to fight and use than more frequent shorter ones, personally, because sitting there for 3 seconds completely disrupts the flow of combat and makes me want to p+enter to avoid sitting through the full thing.

59 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

Stun railgun is OP. It should be nerfed to the same level as Stun smoky.

Striker Stun augment requires you to lock on to the enemy tank to fire the stunning salvo. This alone makes it slightly more difficult to use than Stun smoky and railgun.

With Striker Stun, you are not guaranteed to stun the target again - the lock-on period added with travel time of the rocket and uncertainty of the rocket colliding with map props can be enough for the enemy to run away or hide in cover. 

I have tried using Stun Striker with Mammoth and Wasp. And, then I have tried using Stun Smoky. I found that stun smoky is much more easier and comfortable to use - it does get the job done, at least for me.

Stun Striker being difficult to use than Stun Smoky is a hilarious joke. Stun Striker has actual damage output, consistent stuns, splash stun, compared to a neutered damage output, a requirement to land multiple shots before you have a CHANCE for a stun, and a single target stun with a tiny chance for anything close to a chain - and to do it you still need to build your crit rate back up on them, which you can't do if they die. Locking on is really not as hard as you make it sound with AP and Stun Striker, I don't know what else to say about it.

Stun Rounds is well, a railgun, and according to xp bp players that's a turret that requires tons of skill, and in this case I agree - I don't see how holding the fire button on a target for 1.4 seconds compares to having to position as much as Railguns do.

Addressing this specifically - "With Striker Stun, you are not guaranteed to stun the target again - the lock-on period added with travel time of the rocket and uncertainty of the rocket colliding with map props can be enough for the enemy to run away or hide in cover."
Come on now. They get one second to move. If they get out, that's your fault for not realizing that you can't get a second stun and just firing an arcade. Stun Striker is the only Stun augment that can get a guaranteed second stun.

1 hour ago, At_Shin said:

While I understand your and Congo's POV, the 2nd change to stun smoky would ruin it for me. How will I flee from enemy bases with the defender remaining stunned for just one second?

More frequent stuns ultimately has the same effect. Also, you will have a non-trashed damage output.

1 hour ago, At_Shin said:

It is difficult to fire a stunning salvo while you are fleeing from the enemy base. Firing a peanut shot (smoky) or an infinite laser (railgun) is much more easier. For this reason, railgun stun augment should be weakened to the same level as stun smoky.  

3 hours ago, Abellia said:

It's harder to fire the actual missile, but the threat of Stun Striker's ridiculous stunlock is a much more effective deterrent than a peashooter with a weak stun round. As for Stun Rounds being weakened - no thanks. Stun augments suck to fight, but that's mostly thanks to how high their durations have been. Stun Rounds can hold its own against other Rail augments as an option now since its damage has been brought back to normal and its stun timer has been reduced, and I've seen far fewer people complaining about it since the change. 

1 hour ago, At_Shin said:

Instead, how about reworking this augment with a similar framework to that of Sorted ammo augment? Say, every 10th shot will be a stun round. This will allow me to aim my stun round at the most lethal enemy at the opportune moment.

10 shots is far too many. I would give it 6 shots if the crit damage nerf is undone, or 5 shots if the crit damage nerf stays. 

You want Stun Smoky to be good for your specific usage whereas we want to make it usable in more general scenarios, and ultimately still usable in yours.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I definitely think that both Stun and AP smoky should see some level of buff (or, EMP Smoky should see a nerf, to bring it down to the level of those augments). Personally, while I am not in favour of long stuns, I do feel like a 1 second stun is too short. A 2 second stun (like Stun Railgun currently has), would be fine in my opinion, or even 3 seconds if the crit rate is still kept lower. If it needs a slightly lower crit rate (but maybe a higher critical damage than it currently has) to make that fair for Smoky, then so be it - given the nature of stuns, when combined with the very fast rate of fire that Smoky currently has. 

Personally I would make something like the following changes to AP/Stun/EMP smoky:

Stun:
Critical chance step: -20% instead of -50%
Critical damage: -15% instead of -50%
Duration: Reduced to 2 seconds, from 3. (might be too OP at 3 seconds, given Smoky's current rate of fire)

AP:
Critical chance step: reduced to -20%
Critical damage: -15% (up from -25%)
Duration: Up to 5 seconds, from 3 seconds (same as EMP duration)

EMP:
Critical chance step: reduced to -20%
Critical damage: -15% (same as current)
Duration: 5 seconds (same as current)

This would give all 3 augments the same critical damage, and chance - slightly lower than that of stock smoky, but regular enough nonetheless, and they would all be much more equal in power, compared to now. EMP Smoky would receive a well-deserved nerf, as it is currently too strong.

Not sure if those are the right changes, but anyway I would like to see some kind of changes to Smoky's Ultra Container augments, as there is no doubt that EMP Smoky is far in front of both AP/Stun, and all the others.

Edited January 11, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

13 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Striker Stun augment requires you to lock on to the enemy tank to fire the stunning salvo. This alone makes it slightly more difficult to use than Stun smoky and railgun.

How long is the lock-on?

What other turret can stun-lock an enemy like stun-striker can?

 

 

4 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

AP:
Critical chance step: reduced to -20%
Critical damage: -15% (up from -25%)
Duration: Up to 5 seconds, from 3 seconds (same as EMP duration)

For a -15% Crit damage it gets 3-4 shots at a "naked" target?  Assuming it live that long...

NO!  

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

For a -15% Crit damage it gets 3-4 shots at a "naked" target?  Assuming it live that long...

NO!  

At the minute, AP smoky is blatantly worse than EMP. EMP has 5 seconds duration and -15% critical damage, while AP has only 3 seconds duration and -25% crit damage. These augments should be equalised, just like they were for Gauss. Not to mention that many would consider EMP to be a slightly stronger status effect than EMP.

My suggestion would give -15% critical damage AND -20% critical chance step, so it would deal slightly less critical damage than stock, and crit slightly less often. Therefore, it would be worse (though still playable) against a target with immunity, compared to stock, but significantly better against a non-immune target. EMP Smoky would be nerfed, with the same stats as it has now but less critical chance.

Yes, a 5 second AP (like the 5 second EMP that EMP smoky currently has) would be strong, but the trend is for Ultra Container augments to be stronger than garage ones. That is the precedent that the developers have set in place, unless they are willing to nerf literally the majority of Ultra Container augments (which I very much doubt they would). So we might as well allow Smoky to have good Ultra Container augments too.

I don't know what the right changes would be, but it is plainly obvious that EMP Smoky is far ahead of the other augments for Smoky. They should be equalised - how much EMP Smoky should be nerfed, or the others buffed, is up for debate.

Edited January 11, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

7 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

At the minute, AP smoky is blatantly worse than EMP. EMP has 5 seconds duration and -15% critical damage, while AP has only 3 seconds duration and -25% crit damage. These augments should be equalised, just like they were for Gauss. Not to mention that many would consider EMP to be a slightly stronger status effect than EMP.

My suggestion would give -15% critical damage AND -20% critical chance step, so it would deal slightly less critical damage than stock, and crit slightly less often. Therefore, it would be worse (though still playable) against a target with immunity, compared to stock, but significantly better against a non-immune target. EMP Smoky would be nerfed, with the same stats as it has now but less critical chance.

Yes, a 5 second AP (like the 5 second EMP that EMP smoky currently has) would be strong, but the trend is for Ultra Container augments to be stronger than garage ones. That is the precedent that the developers have set in place, unless they are willing to nerf literally the majority of Ultra Container augments (which I very much doubt they would). So we might as well allow Smoky to have good Ultra Container augments too.

I don't know what the right changes would be, but it is plainly obvious that EMP Smoky is far ahead of the other augments for Smoky. They should be equalised - how much EMP Smoky should be nerfed, or the others buffed, is up for debate.

I don't care if it's blatantly worse.  Making another item OP does NOT make things better. 

Also don't care if it's the developers "trend".  It will just drive more players to quit.  I'm currently on that edge right now. CAN NOT stand playing against AP augments, and especially paladins.  I have quit more battles in last 4 months than I had in previous 3 years.

[alkyng 3,080]

13 hours ago, At_Shin said:

the lock-on period added with travel time of the rocket and uncertainty of the rocket colliding with map props

In the time your first stun rocket travel to the enemy, your turret is reloading, which means you can stun the target again with no extra time.  + Colliding with map props is happening with any turret, even with Railgun, not related to travel time.  You mean colliding with a tank that moves in your line.

1 hour ago, At_Shin said:

1 or 2 seconds

It's exactly one second