category Ideas for Augments!

[Frylock 1,617]

3 minutes ago, Abellia said:

  

Tbh it's still an S+ tier when it comes to group usage because of the annoying double status - the toxic mix user will always provide a good amount of utility to teammates, except because it's impossible to fully protect against, people typically take a protection + immunity against a different player with a status effect, and open themselves up to being reamed by you.

S+ Tier for group usages sure. I thought A tier on how it performs on its own. I know this may be off tangent but I think the best immunity to use against AP freeze would be cold immunity. You would still have time to get away or fight back if your cornered since you can still use boosted damage bonus with the immunity on. This is the current immunity I'm using right now. 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

35 minutes ago, Abellia said:

Why does this have the "Balance" category stuck on it? This change clearly does not pertain to balancing the game, it's catering to those who abuse the augment and want it stronger.

Done, Introducing Longer AP duration does cater to the change in "Balance" of the game mechanics.

18 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

So when a strong status augment like AP freeze gets nerfed in a way, it sucks???  

Yes, I have been presented this augment as being overpowered in the current mechanics, I use it, get kills, if it gets nerfed, I am going to shift to another augment. Natural cycle.

Never did I say toxic mix became useless or not usable, it does not seem that much of an OP augment to me, because I am able to defend myself against AP users now.

Also, AP was buffed for the fact that the direct critical hit would be dealt to the enemy without Double armor boost to protect him. Nerf in the critical damage was a huge nerf to the augment.

[Frylock 1,617]

2 minutes ago, nikunj04 said:

Nerf in the critical damage was a huge nerf to the augment.

I wouldn't call it a huge nerf for its crit ratio. It was too high from the start. As long as you weaken an opponent easier it still functions just fine. The pre-nerf crit was just dumb with the effect. 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

1 minute ago, MysticBlood said:

The pre-nerf crit was just dumb with the effect. 

That is my whole point, the earlier stats were so buffed that any nerf directly to the critical (which make Freeze famous currently in general) feels like a huge 

[Abellia 504]

28 minutes ago, nikunj04 said:

Done, Introducing Longer AP duration does cater to the change in "Balance" of the game mechanics.

Such a change isn't balance. That actually pushes things away from a balanced game, good change 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Abellia

[LambSauce 1,884]

7 hours ago, Abellia said:

Such a change isn't balance. That actually pushes things away from a balanced game, good change 

Seems like a nice way to introduce more power creep to the game.

I remember AP Freeze used to be ridiculously good but now, from what I’m hearing, it’s just meh.

The bigger question here is where does all of this end? How is this game not a “battle of the status effects” now?

[Abellia 504]

2 hours ago, LambSauce said:

Seems like a nice way to introduce more power creep to the game.

I remember AP Freeze used to be ridiculously good but now, from what I’m hearing, it’s just meh.

The bigger question here is where does all of this end? How is this game not a “battle of the status effects” now?

For a tldr:

 

Nerf all the big legendary augments down to the level of the mediocre legendary augments, and then bring garage augments up to the level of the mediocre legendary augments.

 

But then we have geniuses saying that the most oppressive status augments need buffs because they're harder to get.

 

As for AP Freeze being meh - lol no it's still overpowered as hell

[Cor7y 13,862]

2 hours ago, Abellia said:

But then we have geniuses saying that the most oppressive status augments need buffs because they're harder to get.

Like how AP/EMP gauss doesn't need a nerf? 

[Abellia 504]

Since you people don't seem to think nerfing strong augments is a good idea, how about we buff the weakest augments in the game to match the strongest ones instead, hmm? Let's start with augments that used to be absolute powerhouses, Duplet, Rapid-Fire Mode, Scout, and Sledgehammer, compared to their modern overpowered equivalents - Blunderbuss and Stunning Missiles.

Let's start with Duplet.

2022 Legendary Duplet:
Shot reload -86%
Vertical scatter -50%
Horizontal scatter -50%
Impact force -30%
Clip reload -10%

This gives Duplet a few advantages and tradeoffs versus Blunderbuss. It has a slightly faster reload and more consistency, at the cost of needing a bit of extra time to do its damage and not being able to ignore protections. I'd say this is pretty fair!

Moving on to 2022 Legendary Rapid-Fire Mode:
Recharge rate +100%
Sniping shot damage -33%

This gives Rapid-Fire Mode a few advantages and tradeoffs versus Blunderbuss. It has a more consistency, more damage, and a long range burst damage option at the cost of no multikilling, no ignoring protections, and a longer reload. I'd also say this is pretty fair, would you look at that!

Now let's talk about Stunning Missiles for a second. How do we decide the reload of Sledgehammer and Scout? Well, to start, we can look at them in a 1v1 scenario, where with the 0.4 second Stun timer, Sledgehammer needs about 0.4 seconds less to reload than Stunning Missiles does, to put them on fair ground shooting directly at each other, but we can't forget that Sledgehammer doesn't have criticals and it has terrible splash distribution along with a terrible range penalty that I'm going to reduce somewhat, so I think we should put it up to 0.5 seconds less than Stunning Missiles.  Scout can stay at 0.4 seconds, since it has a 50% critical rate to compensate, but I think it should have its normal damage put up above 750+ in order to kill enemies as quickly on equal footing with the other two. 

So, let's start with 2022 Legendary Sledgehammer:
Reload -55%
Max damage range = 50m

This gives Sledgehammer just a little more effective kill power than Stunning Missiles has with more impact force, with the tradeoff being that it has a range limitation, no double damage crits, terrible splash, and no utility from stun. Would you look at that, they're also on pretty equal footing!

Now for 2022 Legendary Scout:
Normal damage +20%
Reload -90% Yes, 90% You read that right. This is what you people want.

This gives Scout effectively equal kill power to Stunning Missiles with more impact force and a 50% crit chance, with the tradeoff that it doesn't have double damage crits or utility from stun. Wow - completely ridiculous stat buffs and they're on equal footing.
 

Bonus round - 2022 Round Destabilization! This time let's put it next to EMP Railgun.
Critical damage +50%
Normal damage +40%

This gives Round Destabilization a little bit more raw power than EMP Rounds, with a little bit more raw damage at the cost of status! It mimics the number of hits it takes to kill pretty closely - at least one critical for a full health light hull, at least two criticals for a full health medium hull, and at least two criticals plus a followup shot for a heavy hull. And this puts them on equal footing. +50% and +40% buffs to equal a status effect.

I hope you like these changes - why nerf legendary augments when you can just make the garage ones busted too?

Edited April 11, 2022 by Abellia

[Abellia 504]

On 2/6/2022 at 6:00 PM, Rutgers said:

AP Freeze:

Ignores 50% Freeze Protections and 50% Armadillo protection and shares this effect with its allies

Ignores additive armor bonuses of drones (Defender, Camper, Crisis)

Can still freeze enemies and disables boosted damage

Can still attack people under Titan's dome

Somehow still needs a buff because it doesn't delete people on touch apparently :kekw:

Edited February 8, 2022 by Abellia

[LambSauce 1,884]

9 hours ago, Abellia said:

Since you people don't seem to think nerfing strong augments is a good idea, how about we buff the weakest augments in the game to match the strongest ones instead, hmm?

Oh, we all agree with you about this, it’s just the two troll accounts that say otherwise.

 

9 hours ago, Abellia said:

why nerf legendary augments when you can just make the garage ones busted too?

That’s where I see the game going - a year from now most if not all turrets will have augments for every status effect, and all the old garage augments will either have been phased out or buffed massively. It’s just a matter of time.

[Abellia 504]

19 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

Oh, we all agree with you about this, it’s just the two troll accounts that say otherwise.

 

That’s where I see the game going - a year from now most if not all turrets will have augments for every status effect, and all the old garage augments will either have been phased out or buffed massively. It’s just a matter of time.

Well, not just two, there are like four people who genuinely seem to think at least some of the top tier legendary augs don't need a nerf because they don't know how weak most garage augments actually are.

So why not just give the weak garage augments ridiculous stats because that's what they need to match legendary augments? If you can't take a terrorist to court, why not blow up his house with a drone strike?

[Incorp 2,084]

2 hours ago, Abellia said:

Well, not just two, there are like four people who genuinely seem to think at least some of the top tier legendary augs don't need a nerf because they don't know how weak most garage augments actually are

Non-existent ping. 

I'll agree to buffing weak augments, but do not make them as strong as legendary augments. Just make it possible to give garage augments a fighting chance combined with skill. Seriously, these ideas take the excitement out of getting legendary tiered augments from containers.

[Abellia 504]

50 minutes ago, Incorp said:

Non-existent ping. 

I'll agree to buffing weak augments, but do not make them as strong as legendary augments. Just make it possible to give garage augments a fighting chance combined with skill. Seriously, these ideas take the excitement out of getting legendary tiered augments from containers.

So you're saying you don't want augments to be balanced. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by NikmanGT
Kindly refrain from provoking other users

[Abellia 504]

"Kindly refrain from provoking other users"
It's just a fact, you need some help understanding balance if you think buffing the strongest augments in the game adheres to it.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

Looking at the tone of your post here, and also the suggestions, I am guessing that this is a troll post of sorts? I mean, I don't think you need to resort to troll posts just because some people have different opinions on balance. Although, you have put forward some great ideas about changing the direction of game balance - it would be nice if the developers would make Legendary augments, and status effect augments more optional, rather than required, to do well in battle. But unfortunately there are no signs that they would be willing to do that. So sadly I feel like there is little point in making suggestions which they are unlikely to accept, and instead to aim that all turrets are balanced with each other - when taking their best Legendary augments into account. But if all the changes you had suggested were all added together, it would probably be good for the game overall. I just don't see it being accepted sadly - but we can try.

I do think you are overstating the value of status effects just a little, though. Unless you were just going to town on the troll aspect of this post. For example:
 

19 hours ago, Abellia said:

Now for 2022 Legendary Scout:
Normal damage +20%
Reload -90% Yes, 90% You read that right. This is what you people want.

This would bring the time between shots for Scout Railgun down to only 1.36 seconds (1.1 +0.26), which would be just over 1/3 of the time for stock (3.9 seconds), at Mk8. So effectively increasing the DPS of Scout to almost 3 times that of stock regular Railgun (without considering the extra +20% to normal damage mentioned), and greatly increasing impact force. Even if we kept the -40% to normal and regular damage that Scout has, that would be far more OP than any current Legendary Railgun augment, and far more OP than Striker's Stunning Missiles. So I think you are making it clear that this is a troll post. As I say, unnecessary.

Garage augments for some turrets (Smoky/Striker/Freeze/Vulcan) are competitive with the best Legendary augments. I use them regularly, and you also see many 9999 players (who have access to any augment that they want) using them, which is the acid test of which augments are currently meta. So if we nerfed the best Legendary augments, we would also need nerfs to those turrets too for the sake of balance.

All in all, if all your nerf suggestions (not these troll buff suggestions) were thrown into one patch all together, along with nerfs to the strongest base turrets, I think the game would probably be in better shape. But would the developers ever agree to do this? Sadly I think it unlikely. The best we can probably hope for, is balance between each turret taking into account the best Legendary augments.

Edited February 8, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[Abellia 504]

5 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

1.36

Actually, it's 1.03 seconds. 

5 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

So effectively increasing the DPS of Scout to almost 3 times that of stock regular Railgun (without considering the extra +20% to normal damage mentioned), and greatly increasing impact force.

All of the changes here imply keeping their previous stat changes unless it's mentioned that those are changed specifically.

5 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Garage augments for some turrets (Smoky/Striker/Freeze/Vulcan) are competitive with the best Legendary augments

Smoky - Adrenaline is strong, but it is not as strong as EMP Rounds Smoky, which doesn't need to take damage to kill quickly and has much consistently higher power against medium and heavy hulls. Adrenaline Freeze versus status Freezes really feels like you didn't think this through - you can't fully protect yourself from status Freezes, and when you aren't protected versus status freezes, they're much worse to fight than Adrenaline Freezes, because...why? Striker and Vulcan are not worth discussing - both Adrenaline Vulcan and Missile Launcher "Hunter", the best garage augments for the two, are both significantly inferior in practice compared to Stunning Missiles - which offers less DPS than Adrenaline Vulcan with the bonus of splash damage, double damage criticals, and you know, STUN, and it offers the same damage output as Missile Launcher Hunter with stunning added on top. The projectile speed bonus is negligible, given that both fire locked shots, and is actually an advantage with Stunning Missiles since the turn speed is faster relative to the missiles.

 

[Abellia 504]

4 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I am guessing that this is a troll post of sorts?

This is what is needed for garage augments to equal legendary augments. It's stupid by nature, not by my presentation.

4 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I do think you are overstating the value of status effects just a little, though. Unless you were just going to town on the troll aspect of this post. For example:
 

On 2/7/2022 at 10:40 PM, Abellia said:

Now for 2022 Legendary Scout:
Normal damage +20%
Reload -90% Yes, 90% You read that right. This is what you people want.

This would bring the time between shots for Scout Railgun down to only 1.36 seconds (1.1 +0.26), which would be just over 1/3 of the time for stock (3.9 seconds), at Mk8. So effectively increasing the DPS of Scout to almost 3 times that of stock regular Railgun (without considering the extra +20% to normal damage mentioned), and greatly increasing impact force. Even if we kept the -40% to normal and regular damage that Scout has, that would be far more OP than any current Legendary Railgun augment, and far more OP than Striker's Stunning Missiles. So I think you are making it clear that this is a troll post. As I say, unnecessary.

Stunning cuts down the damage output of whoever you're fighting by about 26% (0.4/1.52). 1.52, the reload time for Stunning Missiles, times 0.74% is 1.12 seconds, give or take, with a little added dps for Scout and for Sledgehammer to compensate for the lack of utility from double damage crits and from the stunning, which can interrupt enemy Missile Launcher "Hunter"s, Vulcans, Rails, Shafts, Gausses, and Magnums, along with every overdrive in the game except for Wasp's. I'd say a tiny bit of DPS is pretty fair.

As for Round Destabilization versus EMP Rounds - EMP Rounds cuts their damage and armour in half, along with reducing speed. My proposal Round Destabilization has roughly the same effective kill power as EMP Rounds - it doesn't need an extra shot on light hulls, but it falls risk to being repair-kitted on medium and heavy hulls. The two augments, side by side, are on equal footing.

The fact that you think this is a troll post shows how ridiculous the idea that legendary augments don't need nerfs is, I think. Quite telling that if you go the other way around, the numbers are hilariously huge.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Abellia

[wolverine848 13,097]

22 minutes ago, Abellia said:

Stunning cuts down the damage output of whoever you're fighting by about 26%

A lot more than that for turrets like Vulcan.  Can pretty much keep them in stun lock since it re-sets the spin-up to zero.

If I'm playing a vulcan and there's 1 or more stun strikers on other team I just hit exit.  It's impossible to play.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

Alright, seeing some flaming and trolling here now, not going to pick names, you can very much judge yourself if you are one of them. If you are, better stop.

No need to reply to this comment.

On a serious note, now kindly stick to the balance discussion to avoid any strict actions being taken ahead.

 

52 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

If I'm playing a vulcan and there's 1 or more stun strikers on other team I just hit exit.  It's impossible to play.

I agree, stun augments or stun striker in specific is the anti-venom of strikers, shaft or  maybe rail.
I just tried vulcan, unless you have equipped Shooting speed regulator which has barrel time reduced, other Vulcan augments took a huge hit against this augment.

[BruhBruhThingThing 413]

15 minutes ago, NikmanGT said:

Alright, seeing some flaming and trolling here now, not going to pick names, you can very much judge yourself if you are one of them. If you are, better stop.

On a serious note, now kindly stick to the balance discussion to avoid any strict actions being taken ahead.

I stopped. Also thank you for intervening before the situation got worse.

[Abellia 504]

1 hour ago, NikmanGT said:

balance discussion

I agree balance discussion. Not bad ideascussion.

[Incorp 2,084]

14 hours ago, Abellia said:

So you're saying you don't want augments to be balanced. 

You can put it that way.

If garage augments has the same potential as legendary augments, why not release legendary augments for crystals?

Most garage augments are already balanced. I have already said before, do not change things that are already balanced, or balance will go haywire.

[Incorp 2,084]

During the discussion in abellia's Bringing Down Giants - Status Railguns (and a little more) idea, I had an idea for a fun new railgun augment.

This augments works like this. 

Cast: 

Tank 1 

Tank 2 

Tank 3 railgun and this augment

 

Tank one was burning for a previous firebird attack. Tank 2 is behind tank 1,  and tank 3 takes a shot at a double hit and succeeds. The bullet sped through tank 1 and slammed into tank 2. That will give tank 2 the burning affect as well.

For example, if you shoots a tank who had a negative status effect active, if you manage to shoot through him and hit another tank, it will inflict the same status effect at the second tank. 

In order for this to work, you have to have a tank with a negative status  effect active, as well as managing to pierce through him and damage another tank, which is a pretty rare occurrence, so it will have the same,e stats as stock railgun. This can also work if you shoot through a teammate who  have a negative status affect applied, and hit an enemy tank. This will be a fun augments touse to counter enemy wasps and hunter overdrive :D

what do you think? This is supposed to be a fun augments, and like AP ricochet, you need to put the special effect of the turret in use to make it work. The special effect for railgun is piercing, so you will have to pierce atheist two tanks for this to work, kinda like hyperspace rounds.  Comments are appreciated :) also if you think a small need is appropriate,  please suggest them below   thanks!

[NikmanGT 4,362]

I love the concept, no doubt about it. For hyperspace users, this will be a cherry on top. For Rail players like us, we would have no loss in making doubles or even triples, especially in Siege and other game modes too. But I fear this will make rail more overpowered in terms of status effects, people already have trouble countering Status rails.