update Critical damage

[EmeraldCat 562]

So far, the only thing I'm actually enjoying on Tanki right now is the Team Juggernaut Rugby Mode. It's pretty well balanced, everyone deals the same damage, has the same hp, no one has modules against each other. Though, you are still able to use drones in the gamemode, which ticked me off. Getting absolutely annihilated by the Juggernaut and its Booster Drone was unfun. But yeah, Team Juggernaut Rugby Mode 7.5/10, critical update in general 1.5/10.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

I still hate this update.

[EmeraldCat 562]

1 minute ago, yellowghetto said:

I still hate this update.

Agreed.

[cosmic666 1,055]

4 hours ago, Akame said:

just hope you don't face spectrum modules which have built in crit resistance, also not suprised, and if they have defender on, good luck with that.

I always knew they were a lot more than the measly % they claimed they only had protection from.

 

On 3/25/2021 at 6:54 PM, Marcus said:

On 3/25/2021 at 6:54 PM, Marcus said:

 

 

We have been actively working on turret augments that interact with the status effects. They change the characteristics of the opponent's tank for a certain period of time. For example, they pierce the armor or stun the tank.

 

There are a lot of ideas to create even more interesting mechanics for such augments, but we could not work on them before because of some problems. We had to make new Railgun augments weaker so it wasn't too difficult to play against them. Because of this, we decided we needed another solution: either introducing critical damage or reworking the damage distribution entirely. For the latter, the habits developed through years of playing with this turret would lose importance.

 

Because of this, we decided that it is necessary to make the balancing process of turrets and augments easier. We created a mechanism, and this is how it will work:

 

• Removes the random damage distribution from all turrets;

• Adds critical damage to all turrets, just like Smoky, but with different damage multipliers for each turret..

 

It's all a smokescreen to wrangle yet more cash out of players.

Utter garbage introducing crit hit for all turrets, we didn't need it. Why not just NERF the OP gear in the first place and balance the game out that way.

Why do the devs bring in OP updates at all, CASH.

If any player believes this nonsense then you are easily fooled.

@Marcus Do us all a favour and find other employment somewhere else.

And failing that, try starting a new account without having a maxed out garage handed to you on a plate. Play as a F2P player and find out just how hard it is to compete in this OP game you endorse so much. 

The only ones you fool are the kids who are glued to their mobiles 24/7.... bravo for that.

 

 

10 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

But no - they went ahead and tied the modules into the Critical, for no real reason.

Ahh we no the reason.

C A S H 

Edited March 27, 2021 by At_Shin
Posts Merged.

[Stylish 41]

So they want to remove random damage, but instead they make crits that are pure random. Which is first of all way more unhealthy than it previously was. And then, what the  is railgun? How is anyone supposed to play with a light hull against railgun now? It has a 50% chance of one-tapping you on certain alterations, even trough a protection module. You could argue 'just get the new module'. Yeah, impossible to buy with in game currency and only available in loot boxes. Very fair. I hope the rest of Europe follows the Netherlands and Belgium soon so tanki might do something about it. Terrible update, terrible developers. Can't wait for all incoming new pay to win alterations

Edited March 27, 2021 by At_Shin
Please refrain from using profanity.

[numericable 2,375]

Make new protection module available to crystals so then this game will be enjoyable for everyone.

[EmeraldCat 562]

1 hour ago, cosmic666 said:

Ahh we no the reason.

C A S H 

To be 100% completely fair, the game is slowly losing players, and a few updates before this one caused some major decreases in players. I totally understand that the Devs need money, I think what they're trying to do is justified, but the way they are trying to go is just wrong and it won't work.

 

45 minutes ago, Stylish said:

So they want to remove random damage, but instead they make crits that are pure random. Which is first of all way more unhealthy than it previously was. And then, what the is railgun? How is anyone supposed to play with a light hull against railgun now? It has a 50% chance of one-tapping you on certain alterations, even trough a protection module. You could argue 'just get the new module'. Yeah, impossible to buy with in game currency and only available in loot boxes. Very fair. I hope the rest of Europe follows the Netherlands and Belgium soon so tanki might do something about it. Terrible update, terrible developers. Can't wait for all incoming new pay to win alterations

Agreed, I don't think the Devs thought this through.

41 minutes ago, numericable said:

Make new protection module available to crystals so then this game will be enjoyable for everyone.

It would most definitely be a lot more fair, but, why play a game where you're split into 2 categories "incredibly weak or insanely overpowered." With this update, from the looks of it, if you don't have that Critical Protection Module, you'd be considered incredibly weak, and it would be hard to hold your ground in battle. On the other hand, if you have a Critical Protection Module, you now have the upper hand against literally everyone. Same is said for Railgun. You're insanely powerful if no enemy has protection against critical damage, but insanely weak when your opponent does have critical protection.

There's really no middle ground for this stuff and it honestly pisses me off.

Edited March 27, 2021 by At_Shin
Edited quoted content

[EternalGlory 62]

Hmm, what is next?

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 hours ago, ThirdOnion said:

It would be far easier to reduce damage rather than have to deal with all these unnecessary issues.

This brings it's own issues.

long-range turrets with slower re-load should be able to one-shot up medium hulls - IF the targets chose not to equip a module.  Even then, some still can unless the target immediately equips a DA.  But immediately equipping a DA should not be the only solution - hence modules.

As for homogeneous teams - well that's a strategic choice, is it not?  If some of those players refuse to visit garage and make a change IMO it's on them.

And popular turrets - well they are more often than not "popular" because they are potent. In many cases too potent.

I regularly used high-end protection modules, and yet died quite often in battle.  I don't claim to be elite at all.  But neither am I a noob on the field.  So how do you explain enemies having no issues killing me, even though I wear 48% modules?  The game has so many ways to kill tanks quickly nowadays, modules do not present the impediment you claim.

 

The current solution is NOT workable long-term, and many players will just quit.  They've made all turrets have a built-in version of weaker AP (AP-light).  And turrets like Rail and Auto-canon are just silly, with Critical (AP-light) happening way too often.

[NikmanGT 4,370]

it seriusly is getting difficult to play around ;(

[SulfuricAcid 504]

And !!!  Why there was no open test in real servers so as to see players feedback about it then deciding on whether go to implement this huge update or not. !!!

[Watermelon 86]

Congrats, you just killed a good part of xp bp : ) 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

23 hours ago, Niklas said:

Ayee I guess you didn't even played with Gauss today. Lemme tell you something:

He doesn't have to use Gauss to see the result, just like I don't have to use Hopper in MM to see its OP-ness (not the jump itself).

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

5 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

This brings it's own issues.

long-range turrets with slower re-load should be able to one-shot up medium hulls - IF the targets chose not to equip a module.  Even then, some still can unless the target immediately equips a DA.  But immediately equipping a DA should not be the only solution - hence modules.

As for homogeneous teams - well that's a strategic choice, is it not?  If some of those players refuse to visit garage and make a change IMO it's on them.

And popular turrets - well they are more often than not "popular" because they are potent. In many cases too potent.

I regularly used high-end protection modules, and yet died quite often in battle.  I don't claim to be elite at all.  But neither am I a noob on the field.  So how do you explain enemies having no issues killing me, even though I wear 48% modules?  The game has so many ways to kill tanks quickly nowadays, modules do not present the impediment you claim.

The current solution is NOT workable long-term, and many players will just quit.  They've made all turrets have a built-in version of weaker AP (AP-light).  And turrets like Rail and Auto-canon are just silly, with Critical (AP-light) happening way too often.

Why should long range turrets be able to one-shot medium hulls, even without modules? In my opinion the only turret that should be able one-shot mediums is Shaft. Magnum, Gauss, and Railgun have extra perks (splash, penetration, lock-on) besides high damage. None of these three turrets should do more than 1000 damage per shot at Mk7+.

Homogenous team composition would be a strategic choice if players had full control over team composition. But there's zero choice in MM. Not all players can simply "visit the garage" and adapt fluidly to enemy equipment setups. That's really only a luxury that buyers or long-time players with a full garage have. And given the fact that every other player in the match can also change equipment . . . there's only so much one can do.

Sure many turrets are popular because they are potent. But even here protection modules create a balance challenge; if those turrets rightfully receive nerfs, they become too weak because of the prevalence of modules against them. So they remain potent. Without modules these turrets could be readily nerfed without significant complications. 

I'd argue that part of the reason the game so many ways to kill tanks quickly nowadays is precisely because of protection modules. Why do status effect augments exist? Why do Booster and Crisis exist? Why do Hornet, Viking, and Crusader's ODs exist? To counter protection modules. Reinforcing the role of protective items simply leads to more ways to deal more damage or counter those protective items. New sources of damage in turn lead to more protective items (first a flexible protection module system to counter more turrets being added, then drones to counter higher damage, then hull augments, now critical resistance). The result is never-ending power creep. If protection modules were removed early on the problem would be cut off at the root. Now more and more mechanics are being slapped on with no end in sight. I wouldn't be surprised if a fourth module slot is added by the end of the year . . . followed by a few more turrets.

In the low ranks there are hardly any protection modules, yet the average time to kill is lower. Part of this is because of slower reloads, but part of this is also because there are fewer sources of damage. Why are there fewer sources of damage? Because there are fewer protective items to counter them. The insta-kill problem wouldn't have been an issue in the first place were it not for modules. Nothing you can do about Railgun because it's subject to constant favoritism and fan-service but that's a separate issue.

The current implementation of critical damage is far from an ideal solution. I would prefer that critical shots bypass modules, but do less damage than standard shots.

[wolverine848 13,097]

12 minutes ago, ThirdOnion said:

Why should long range turrets be able to one-shot medium hulls, even without modules? In my opinion the only turret that should be able one-shot mediums is Shaft. Magnum, Gauss, and Railgun have extra perks (splash, penetration, lock-on) besides high damage. None of these three turrets should do more than 1000 damage per shot at Mk7+.

Homogenous team composition would be a strategic choice if players had full control over team composition. But there's zero choice in MM. Not all players can simply "visit the garage" and adapt fluidly to enemy equipment setups. That's really only a luxury that buyers or long-time players with a full garage have. And given the fact that every other player in the match can also change equipment . . . there's only so much one can do.

Sure many turrets are popular because they are potent. But even here protection modules create a balance challenge; if those turrets rightfully receive nerfs, they become too weak because of the prevalence of modules against them. So they remain potent. Without modules these turrets could be readily nerfed without significant complications. 

I'd argue that part of the reason the game so many ways to kill tanks quickly nowadays is precisely because of protection modules. Why do status effect augments exist? Why do Booster and Crisis exist? Why do Hornet, Viking, and Crusader's ODs exist? To counter protection modules. Reinforcing the role of protective items simply leads to more ways to deal more damage or counter those protective items. New sources of damage in turn lead to more protective items (first a flexible protection module system to counter more turrets being added, then drones to counter higher damage, then hull augments, now critical resistance). The result is never-ending power creep. If protection modules were removed early on the problem would be cut off at the root. Now more and more mechanics are being slapped on with no end in sight. I wouldn't be surprised if a fourth module slot is added by the end of the year . . . followed by a few more turrets.

In the low ranks there are hardly any protection modules, yet the average time to kill is lower. Part of this is because of slower reloads, but part of this is also because there are fewer sources of damage. Why are there fewer sources of damage? Because there are fewer protective items to counter them. The insta-kill problem wouldn't have been an issue in the first place were it not for modules. Nothing you can do about Railgun because it's subject to constant favoritism and fan-service but that's a separate issue.

The current implementation of critical damage is far from an ideal solution. I would prefer that critical shots bypass modules, but do less damage than standard shots.

Players have choice in MM.  The ones who are seeing 50% modules should have at least 2 or 3 turrets in their garage.  If they don't, it's crystal mismanagement or a decision to upgrade fully 1 combo.  Either way - the end result is from that players doing.

It's debatable why we have ODs, and Drones, etc.  I don't think modules play a large part in that.  IMO is cash-driven.  Those items would have been added regardless of whether or not modules existed.  It's the pattern TO Devs have demonstrated over and over.  Introduce new powerful items to generate more income.

There are fewer sources of damage at lower ranks because players don't have the resources to invest in them.  They would have to choose between upgrading their current tank or buying one of these new sources of damage.  If there were a multitude of sources of damage available BUYERS would benefit the most, as only they could afford to upgrade tanks AND buy these other items.  Thank goodness Devs have not added many of those - yet.

4 protection modules?  Might work - if ALL equipped modules suffered a penalty when that 4th module was activated.  I had suggested this a couple times in the past.

And why would you want Critical shots to bypass modules but do less damage.  They'd be useless vs enemies that don't have a module against their turret.  That is counter-productive and would not work well IMO.

 

 

[alkyng 3,080]

In my honest opinion... I don't think in the near future there will be any new turret stronger than EMP Gauss, nor in the far future.  So I think yea it's the most OP turret happened in Tanki history

Because basically it's the only turret who have a 20m radius (Magnum exception), Railgun or Shaft don't have splash-damage.  Also if a turret will be stronger than EMP Gauss ! what the buffs it will have?   So basically Tanki nerfed EMP Gauss and that wont happen again with NO thankfully to the developers after 9 months of the farce.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

@Marcus Is the huge nerf to Gauss splash radius intentional? As I do not see it listed anywhere in the patch notes. Standard Gauss has had its splash radius cut dramatically, and as far as players here are saying that also applies to all the augments too.

Now, I very much support a nerf to EMP Gauss because it is overpowered, and Gauss in general was a bit too powerful - but this is too much of a reduction in the splash radius for standard Gauss at least. Standard Gauss is currently very bad, and I am assuming that this is a bug.

Edited March 27, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, DestrotankAI9 said:

Standard Gauss is currently very bad, and I am assuming that this is a bug.

Idk, I like the splash damage reductions.

It makes default Gauss somewhat more similar in power to the likes of default Striker and Thunder.

In comparison to the long-range turrets, Gauss can do splash damage as it's specialty (Magnum can too, but Magnum is much less reliable).

However, the nerfs to Gauss' splash help maintain Gauss' specialty as the only long range turret that can reliably explode multiple enemies at once, and at the same time, makes it so that Gauss cannot out-class Thunder, who was the original splash damage turret.

 

In my opinion, all Gausses still need a nerf, primarily because they are still super annoying to fight against due to them being unable to shoot at you and do massive damage without any warning at all.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Tanker-Arthur

[alkyng 3,080]

3 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

@Marcus Is the huge nerf to Gauss splash radius intentional? As I do not see it listed anywhere in the patch notes. Standard Gauss has had its splash radius cut dramatically, and as far as players here are saying that also applies to all the augments too.
Now, I very much support a nerf to EMP Gauss because it is overpowered, and Gauss in general was a bit too powerful - but this is too much of a reduction in the splash radius for standard Gauss at least. Standard Gauss is currently very bad, and I am assuming that this is a bug.

I'm not sure about the new splash-radius, but I think it shouldn't go up 10m radius.  You remember how the farce Gauss-Hornet OD in the past how it can kill 8 players one-shot with the incredibly 20m of splash-damage. Gauss is a quite powerful with the 20m, Magnum also have 20m.. but every further more you go in the distance the damage will reduce dramatically. But Gauss 90% of the damage remain in 12m, which is a farce also.   Look at the other sniper turrets than Gauss/Magnum, Railgun/Shaft doesn't have splash-damage. While Railgun can shot two enemies in the laser line, but it's not a practical to kill a punch of people under Titan's Dome or any crowded people.. Not like the meta OP Gauss/Magnum.

[2shots2kills 2,367]

3 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Standard Gauss is currently very bad

Ah yes, removing the fair and balanced ability to kill 3-4 tanks with one shot has made the most disgusting Turret in the game very bad. Interesting. 

Go in the Test Server, try out Thunder and then we'll talk.

[alkyng 3,080]

A splash-damage for ranged turret? Where do you want to reach!    Thunder yes should have splash-damage. But the ranged turrets! you want to kill two-three people in a row !

[wolverine848 13,097]

12 hours ago, Akame said:

ust hope you don't face spectrum modules which have built in crit resistance,

Where did you get this info from?

WIKI has been updated for Armadillo module, but I don't see any references to Critical damage in the Spectrum text.

[alkyng 3,080]

Oh so now the F2P wont annoy us after getting Armadillo from containers that it's UP or balanced as they annoyed us with EMP Gauss.. Because they couldn't upgrade it

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

26 minutes ago, 2shots2kills said:

Ah yes, removing the fair and balanced ability to kill 3-4 tanks with one shot has made the most disgusting Turret in the game very bad. Interesting. 

Go in the Test Server, try out Thunder and then we'll talk.

I do agree that Thunder could do with a buff, perhaps a faster projectile speed at least or a buff to some of its garage augments. Its advantage over Gauss is better splash in the default firing mode, but at the loss of the amazing range shot Gauss (had) I agree it didn't quite match up. But I would definitely put Thunder as superior to Gauss in its current form.

I do think Gauss needed a nerf, but I am not in favour of the kind of nerfs that take things from being OP to being pretty much useless - which is what the tiny splash radius that Gauss now has will do. There isn't any real reason to use it now over Shaft or Rail, because the splash is practically non-existent so it's basically a single target ranged turret that does less damage than Rail.

A bit of a splash nerf would be warranted, yes (and especially a reduction for the EMP Gauss radius to perhaps the same as the AP Gauss radius - or even make the EMP single target), but to nerf to the point that it basically isn't a splash turret any more is going too far. And this isn't in the patch notes, so it looks like it is a bug in any case - not a good way to bring about a nerf.

Don't forget also that the game is going to change a LOT with this update, and we will soon have to think about facing off against buyers with full 50% armadillo - I have already seen one of them today. In that case, we will want to rely on turrets like Shaft/Gauss/Magnum which have guaranteed damage which does not rely on criticals to have any chance. Your Railgun/Autocannon which seem strong today will not be strong in a few months against such players, when they start to appear regularly in battle.

Edited March 27, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

26 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

I'm not sure about the new splash-radius, but I think it shouldn't go up 10m radius.  You remember how the farce Gauss-Hornet OD in the past how it can kill 8 players one-shot with the incredibly 20m of splash-damage. Gauss is a quite powerful with the 20m, Magnum also have 20m.. but every further more you go in the distance the damage will reduce dramatically. But Gauss 90% of the damage remain in 12m, which is a farce also.   Look at the other sniper turrets than Gauss/Magnum, Railgun/Shaft doesn't have splash-damage. While Railgun can shot two enemies in the laser line, but it's not a practical to kill a punch of people under Titan's Dome or any crowded people.. Not like the meta OP Gauss/Magnum.

10m might be OK, but I don't think it is even 10m. Try it for yourself. It is basically a single target turret right now - there is no reason to use Gauss over my main turret (Rail).

As I say, I am in favour of nerfs to OP things, but not nerfs that take them from OP to useless - and especially not through an unannounced bug.

Edited March 27, 2021 by DestrotankAI9