update Critical damage

[BiBo 176]

5 minutes ago, The_Pakistani said:

Where is skill?

That thing disappeared right after Semyon left years ago. 

[The_Pakistani 16,768]

2 minutes ago, BiBo said:

That thing disappeared right after Semyon left years ago. 

After Kasim left*

[wolverine848 13,097]

51 minutes ago, BiBo said:

BTW, what's the use of modules now? I know they add some points to the GS but after this update they are kinda useless

Agreed.

[alkyng 3,080]

21 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

@DestrotankAI9 @Tanker-Arthur @Alsarbon You guys had also asked me why I called these changes in railgun augments "more balanced". So, here's my explanation -

I said the aforementioned phrase after battling against enemies with these railgun augments. This is what I observed - the enemy stun/emp railgun was unable to apply the status effect to me for the majority of the battle. It seemed to me at the time that the critical chance of these augments has been lowered. Now, I do not know for sure if the critical chance for these augments is actually lesser than 50%, but as I observed from those battles it is probably lesser than 50%.
This is why I believe they have made the augments "more balanced". The augments have high damage as before and the status effect lasts a lot longer than before but it is only applied with a critical hit and as I believe - the chances of those critical hits is a lot lesser than your average LCR or Scout railgun. Also, I do not deny that LCR and scout augments are too OP right now. I agree they need a nerf - along with others such as AC smoky.

However, I could be wrong. Maybe, I simply got lucky in those battles. In that case, I agree that it isn't balanced. We need them to have a lower critical chance.

Also, I intend to find out the correct information about the crit chance of those augments. I'll let you know when I do.

We just talk about the update in general, neglecting the Exotic Augments.. Because they're broken either before or after the update, so nothing to talk about it here.

But about the balancing, you see how LCR can destroy light hulls inevitably with the critical hit. Which rendered the light hulls as unplayable, and I will switch to play only with my Viking.

The OP Augments should be balanced with any way by the developers, not to change the game completely !

I believe this wont last long, and LCR will get a rework for this farce. But I don't think I will like the rework if they made the critical hit have less damage than 2000, because this means that I will never one-shot a light hull. Though it was near impossible to do in the past.

By the way, maybe this update is a good. And it's nice you liked it and you see it is "more balanced". And I said that also before that this update seems more balanced.. But what ! they ruined everything with the critical hit when it ignore the protection modules, the balance is in a place and their new update is in a faar place. They haven't make us test the update or judge about it, Nope.. They ruined it from the first with the Armor piercing Critical damage.

[EmeraldCat 562]

3 minutes ago, At_Shin said:

@DestrotankAI9 @Tanker-Arthur @Alsarbon You guys had also asked me why I called these changes in railgun augments "more balanced". So, here's my explanation -

I said the aforementioned phrase after battling against enemies with these railgun augments. This is what I observed - the enemy stun/emp railgun was unable to apply the status effect to me for the majority of the battle. It seemed to me at the time that the critical chance of these augments has been lowered. Now, I do not know for sure if the critical chance for these augments is actually lesser than 50%, but as I observed from those battles it is probably lesser than 50%.
This is why I believe they have made the augments "more balanced". The augments have high damage as before and the status effect lasts a lot longer than before but it is only applied with a critical hit and as I believe - the chances of those critical hits is a lot lesser than your average LCR or Scout railgun. Also, I do not deny that LCR and scout augments are too OP right now. I agree they need a nerf - along with others such as AC smoky.

However, I could be wrong. Maybe, I simply got lucky in those battles. In that case, I agree that it isn't balanced. We need them to have a lower critical chance.

No no, what we need is for this critical damage update to be removed. It was a flat out stupid idea to begin with. Removing Smoky's uniqueness without thinking, saying "Oh, but on the other hand, Smoky and literally every other turret's critical hits ignore modules." Literally favorite childing Railgun and giving it the most op power ever. It's very clear that the Devs never thought this through. It was said in the latest V-Log that Railgun had some problems with its Augments, and that the new Railgun Augments were "too weak." It was also said in the V-Log, and I quote, "Railgun has no alternative fire mode to work with status effects, and it can't simply be added without breaking the turret's play habits." First off, why even add status effects for augments, they make gameplay the absolute worst. Specifically "AP, EMP, Stun." Second, this problem could have been fixed in various other ways. They didn't have to "1 - Remove the damage spread for all turrets. 2 - Add critical damage mechanics like Smoky's for all turrets." and I quote again. I think one solution would be admitting that status effects for augments are a bad idea and make gameplay crap, and simply remove them from the game, that way they can think of Augments that ARE'NT unoriginal. Another solution would be to stop making Augments so powerful and convert their name back to Alterations, that way, you don't have to worry about "play habits" being broken. Because the whole point of Alterations is to change the turret's play style. I think those are just 2 out hundreds of other GOOD solutions the Devs could have taken to solve their problems. Not breaking the game even more with this critical damage nonsense. As a matter of fact, this update is kinda nonsense, because I don't see how removing damage ranges and giving every turret was going to fix their problem that I quoted up above.

I think the Devs should really think things through before deciding to add something. Because I know for a fact this critical damage update was not thought out.

[alkyng 3,080]

23 minutes ago, The_Pakistani said:

After Kasim left*

What Kasim was doing? just a presenter for the Vlogs and for the other game events. Not a developer nor anything else. This isn't a neglectance of him, but this is his position in Tanki.

[R_X_GUN 2]

Idea for a new Thunder augment:

 

15% damage increase  +

15% reload increase  -

No Critical damage  -

[Okami 3,041]

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

What Kasim was doing? just a presenter for the Vlogs and for the other game events. Not a developer nor anything else. This isn't a neglectance of him, but this is his position in Tanki.

The same is true for Semyon Kirov. I don't know why people think he's connected to the (perceived) decline of the game when he was only a Community Manager (similar to Marcus) and the V-LOG host.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

2 hours ago, R_X_GUN said:

Idea for a new Thunder augment:

 

15% damage increase  +

15% reload increase  -

No Critical damage  -

Put that here:

Ideas and Suggestions - Tanki Online Forum (tankiforum.com)

[Knafo 790]

That's the END....

[lssimo 1,559]

What if we, meaning devs, classify Critical as a secondary effect for all turrets?

That way the "Secondary Effects" would be:

Fire = Burning

Freeze = Freezing

Isida = Healing

Others = Extra Damage, Burning Shots and Freezing Shots, when Criticalling.

This would mean that the Critical Module would be in the same category and in the same place as Heat Resistance, Freezing Resistance, meaning it would become an Aughment, leaving current modules alone.

Likewise a ""Crit" Damage Resistance" aughment would provide half protection as ""Crit" Damage Immunity" aughment.

And finally, the Critical part should only count the extra damage caused by critical shots, so if a turret makes 100 of damage and with critical it goes up to 150, 50 would be the "Critical Damage". So ""Crit" Damage Resistance" would be 25, and ""Crit" Damage Immunity" would be 50.

Edited March 28, 2021 by lssimo

[PAKISTANI-THE-LEGEND 57]

Still confused what is this year's april fool  

[alkyng 3,080]

1 hour ago, GrayWolf8733 said:

The same is true for Semyon Kirov. I don't know why people think he's connected to the (perceived) decline of the game when he was only a Community Manager (similar to Marcus) and the V-LOG host.

Any type of Community Managing or V-Logs hosting consider directly as the presenters of the game.. Community Manager (Marcus or any) considered as the representor of the game, so maybe I can criticize him and insult (not really) about the bad updates.. Because he is the one who is the frontage of the game. The same thing is applied to Kasim

By the way, you see many players here mix between the moderators and they insult them as they are the ones who did the updates !! though the moderators are just helpers with no fees.   And you don't want us to consider the CM as the representor of the game, I think he is more righteous to be criticized for the updates than the moderators.

[Alklines 1,751]

4 hours ago, At_Shin said:

@DestrotankAI9 @Tanker-Arthur @Alsarbon You guys had also asked me why I called these changes in railgun augments "more balanced". So, here's my explanation -

I said the aforementioned phrase after battling against enemies with these railgun augments. This is what I observed - the enemy stun/emp railgun was unable to apply the status effect to me for the majority of the battle. It seemed to me at the time that the critical chance of these augments has been lowered. Now, I do not know for sure if the critical chance for these augments is actually lesser than 50%, but as I observed from those battles it is probably lesser than 50%.
This is why I believe they have made the augments "more balanced". The augments have high damage as before and the status effect lasts a lot longer than before but it is only applied with a critical hit and as I believe - the chances of those critical hits is a lot lesser than your average LCR or Scout railgun. Also, I do not deny that LCR and scout augments are too OP right now. I agree they need a nerf - along with others such as AC smoky.

However, I could be wrong. Maybe, I simply got lucky in those battles. In that case, I agree that it isn't balanced. We need them to have a lower critical chance.

Also, I intend to find out the correct information about the crit chance of those augments. I'll let you know when I do.

I have Stun Railgun and believe me, a critical shot chance is incredibly low! It's usually about 1 in every 5 shots for me on average making it 20% instead of the claimed 50%.

[BiBo 176]

1 hour ago, GrayWolf8733 said:

The same is true for Semyon Kirov. I don't know why people think he's connected to the (perceived) decline of the game when he was only a Community Manager (similar to Marcus) and the V-LOG host.

I'm well aware that he wasn't a developer of the game. But the job of a community manager is to act like a bridge between developers and players, to figure out what the community wants and feed that back to the game developers. And Semyon did a great job back then, that's why most of the old players still remember him and that era of the game. 

But I'm also not gonna criticize Marcus, cus this update and the rest of the bad updates from the past were all developers fault. They refuse to listen to what the community says, plain and simple. 

 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

1 hour ago, Alklines said:

I have Stun Railgun and believe me, a critical shot chance is incredibly low! It's usually about 1 in every 5 shots for me on average making it 20% instead of the claimed 50%.

What is the current description of Stun and EMP Rounds for Railgun? Does it state anywhere that the chance for a critical hit is decreased? They updated augment descriptions for some augments and maybe they did it to those two.

[Alklines 1,751]

3 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

What is the current description of Stun and EMP Rounds for Railgun? Does it state anywhere that the chance for a critical hit is decreased? They updated augment descriptions for some augments and maybe they did it to those two.

Wiki: Stuns only on critical shots

EMP only on critical shots

 

Patch notes: Railgun - Added critical damage: 800 (Mk1) up to 1600 (Mk7+) with a fixed 50% chance (maybe this doesn't apply Stun and EMP rounds?)

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

Unfortunately I don't have long to continue this discussion and to reply to all the responses to my last few messages - but I will just say this VERY important point which I don't think people have focused enough on:

There is NO literal reason why critical hits need to ignore modules, OTHER than to give justification for the developers to add this new "Critical hit protection module" to Ultra Containers, and to hand heavy buyers another big advantage. For anyone with a Critical hit protection module, everything is the same as it was before. For the rest of us, we have to endure this imbalance.

So all this imbalance and getting oneshot through 50% protections etc., JUST for the sake of the devs' greed and trying to milk more money out of buyers from Ultra containers to give us the same protection as we had before. And, the creation of a further massive imbalance between heavy buyers and F2P/light buyers who will not have access to this module.

So if you want to point the finger of blame at anything for getting one shot and crits ignoring protection - make sure you point that finger at the Armadillo module, because that is the sole justification for this.

Really this is a disgusting cash grab, imbalancing the game for everyone for the sake of this. With no Armadillo module, and crits not ignoring protections things would be a lot better (although Railgun gameplay would still be more boring than it was pre-patch). At the very least the Armadillo module needs to be an "early access" for buyers, and available in the garage after a while - but there is still NO reason for its introduction, and better if it was never in the game with semi-AP criticals never being in the game either. If it is added to the Garage, then we are once again paying for something just to get back what we already had.

This update is such an incredible slap in the face for players, altogether. They could have added some new non-imbalanced augments to Ultras to give buyers more variety and make money without destroying all game balance, but no, they had to do this as well.

Edited March 29, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Unfortunately I don't have long to continue this discussion and to reply to all the responses to my last few messages - but I will just say this VERY important point which I don't think people have focused enough on:

There is NO literal reason why critical hits need to ignore modules, OTHER than to give justification for the developers to add this new "Critical hit protection module" to Ultra Containers, and to hand heavy buyers another big advantage. For anyone with a Critical hit protection module, everything is the same as it was before. For the rest of us, we have to endure this imbalance.

So all this imbalance and getting oneshot through 50% protections etc., JUST for the sake of the devs greed and trying to milk more money out of buyers from Ultra containers to give us the same protection as we had before. And, a creation of a further massive imbalance between heavy buyers and F2P/light buyers who will not have access to this module.

So if you want to point the finger of blame at anything for getting one shot and crits ignoring protection - make sure you point that finger at the Armadillo module, because that is the sole justification for this.

Really this is a disgusting cash grab, imbalancing the game for everyone for the sake of this. With no Armadillo module, and crits not ignoring protections things would be a lot better (although Railgun gameplay would still be more boring than it was pre-patch). At the very least the Armadillo module needs to be an "early access" for buyers, and available in the garage after a while - but there is still NO reason for its introduction, and better if it was never in the game with semi-AP criticals never being in the game either. If it is added to the Garage, then we are once again paying for something just to get back what we already had.

This update is such an incredible slap in the face for players, altogether. They could have added some new non-imbalanced augments to Ultras to give buyers more variety and make money without destroying all game balance, but no, they had to do this as well.

Correct.

Critical damage could easily have been introduced without the tie-in to protection modules.  They have nerfed Rail and Smoky modules drastically.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

Obviously the players do not like the critical damage update, as we can see from the feedback - and in battles the game is wildly imbalanced, with people getting one-shotted and dying too fast to certain turrets/augments.

The cause of these problems are the fact that criticals ignore modules, and the reason why they ignore modules is so that the developers could add the Armadillo module to Ultra containers, which gives users the same protection against criticals as we would have had critical hits did not ignore modules.

So a solution to this is the following : admit that the Armadillo module, and crits ignoring modules was a mistake, and fix it in the following way:

1) Optimal solution:
- Change critical hits to no longer ignore modules
- Remove the Armadillo module, and give everyone who obtained it a Spectrum module instead, and compensate any crystals they had spent on it.

2) Alternative solution:
- Eventually give the Armadillo module to everyone in the Garage, with current availability in Ultra Containers being "early access", and possibly add a fourth module slot for it.

By doing 1), the game will once again be balanced for all players. Anyone who did obtain the Armadillo module, will still get a rare, valuable and useful item - and will also be compensated for any spent crystals which Tanki will easily have record of (the number of players who did this also can not be many at this stage).This is a sensible walk-back from the disaster that we see in game currently.

The other alterative (2) is to eventually give the Armadillo module to everyone in the Garage, but this still means players must endure the module-ignoring criticals until they can obtain this - but it would at least make the game balanced once again.

I know the chance of the developers actually doing this are minimal, but the consequences of the current situation on game balance are dire - changes need to be made following this update to restore balance and to return player satisfaction with gameplay. If the developers are in any way logical, they will do something like this - and so I present my suggestions.

Edited March 28, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

This update is an official one. It was announced in the V-Log sometime ago, so it is not an April Fools joke. This update is here to stay.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

There is NO literal reason why critical hits need to ignore modules,

Here is the issue about modules. They can be your dudes helping you survive longer or being an nuisance to deal with. I heard some players complained that modules are too OP to the point their turrets became obsolete. 

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

So all this imbalance and getting oneshot through 50% protections etc.

Hammer, Railgun, Magnum and what else that can OHKO through 50% modules with Crit Damage? Not Shaft and Gauss b/c no Crit damage on sniper shots.

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

JUST for the sake of the devs' greed and trying to milk more money out of buyers from Ultra containers to give us the same protection as we had before.

A bit too extreme to criticize Alternativa like that???

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

And, a creation of a further massive imbalance between heavy buyers and F2P/light buyers who will not have access to this module.

Hard to say about this.

Again right now it's the Railgun crit damage issue. Its crit rate is insane.

[wolverine848 13,097]

So, can a Dev or Mod please explain why Rail Critical hits were done the way they have been implemented?

Why the large disparity in damage that forces critical hit chances at 50%?

Why not 1,250 damage for all shots, including Critical, and then apply a reasonable Critical hit chance to account for Status Effects?

 

And maybe you can also explain why modules needed to be tied into the Critical Hit scheme?  For some turrets, those modules have been made worthless.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

I'm pretty sure no one asked for ALL the turrets to get a "critical hit" or "Chance-based" mechanic.

We only asked for the Railgun Augments to get that, not all the turrets :(

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

I prefer the way critical damage is.