update Patch Update #672 - Released 10th December 2021

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

14 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So what if it is effective at medium range.

Does not change the fact it can still kill a medium hull from distance of even largest maps.  Rail can't claim to do that consistently.

You make it sound like all targets are out in the open all the time and thus susceptible to Rail immediately upon reload.  That is not the case. 

Just because you have to wait 10 seconds between full shots doesn't mean it's not a long range turret.

 

Well if you try to sit at longer than 120 yards with Shaft permanently (let's say on Brest on the upper section of the base), you are not going to be very effective. Players might not be in the open all the time, but often enough that you can fire faster than once every 12 seconds (recharge + shot charging time), typically. I assume you have noticed all the Shafts that love the camping playstyle still complaining? That style of play is still not very viable, and yes you will do much better with Rail or Gauss. Might get less one shots, but your average damage output is going to be a lot higher.

On the other hand if you get into medium range to use the arcade shots in between scoped shots, Shaft is now effective. I suppose you could still call it a long-range turret since you can pick off one long-range target every 10 seconds or so, but you definitely also need to be getting into medium range with the current design, and with Rail or Gauss you could avoid doing that if you wanted to.

Edited December 12, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Moisthero 254]

10 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

This change benefits Shafts that quickscope, i.e Shafts that are on the front lines attacking or midfielding, constantly changing positions and instigating enemies. Not the ones that stay in their base in one spot waiting ages for someone to come in front of their laser. 

I am that tank that changes positions around the base. I always try to look around, and not continuously sit in snipe mode. However, there is nothing like quikscope. Once you go into snipemode you load about 2-3 seconds. Then when you go back to arcade you need to reload, even if you did not give a shot away. The most frustrating are zero kills. I go into snipe mode, find target, turns out zero damage, then I need to wait 11 sec. to reload. So sometimes my first shot, not even lethal one, can take place after about 30 sec. - including reload and load times. One shot, while the Vulcan pours bullets, the Stricker reloads his barrage in a few seconds. So now that one shot is very dear to shafts. The change is a hindrance.

Maybe shafts spend more time out of snipe mode but that's because  of what I explained. In arcade their utility is low because the damage can be very minimal, especially in an environment where everyone has augments, added protection and so on.

 

9 hours ago, SporkZilla said:

Just to add to what @TheCongoSpider said... it's OK for Shafts to stay at the base doing what you do, the problem Shafts are the ones that do what he said instead of looking for targets > scoping > shooting > looking for another target > repeat, and keeping their situational awareness.

In Rugby mode, I've often taken the ball past enemy Shafts near their goal (and facing towards me) because they stay in scope mode nearly all the time.

The problem Shafts are like anglers / fishermen that cast their line once and spend ages waiting for a fish to take the bait instead of reeling in their line and casting it again every few minutes.

Check out my comment I made to TheCangoSpite's remark. I agree with you as to how many shafts behave. Very frustrating to me too, as a shaftsman. They can be blind. The idea is as you put it exactly - look for target, scope, shoot, look for target. My beef with TO is that while I continue to do all that it, takes me 14 sec. to load and reload, and that shot is not always a kill, so correction is usually out of the question. This, versus two shots in 10 sec. before the change.

And another thing - please consider that psychological aspect, that now that it takes 11 sec. to reload, snipers will tend to stay in snipe mode until they release their shot because it will take them 11 sec. to reload, so it is very costly for them to be in that mode and not aim to do damage. So now it will be the revers - I too now stay longer in snipe simply because I regret releasing without a kill.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Moisthero

[yoni292 226]

Crisis drone was nerfed heavily. If I pick a box and I use Crisis, there is no effect of that box except for repair box. Meaning speed box, armor box and damage box will not be applied to your tank when gathered if you use Crisis. It happens even if no boosting is applied to your tank. You only rely on your inventory.

[fghjkl54 1,517]

Just now, DestrotankAI9 said:

 

yes it's a bit balanced but it's not OP nor UP (expect if assault round the lamest alt)

BTW i want to get supercumaltive round to spam it with supercharge effect 

 

[It_Aint_Too_Late 144]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:41 PM, Marcus said:

Range of max damage has been decreased from 40-60 to 30-40 m

This tweak where hammer's range is decreased makes Slugger augment of hammer useless. 
Let me tell you why.
Slugger is designed to hit enemies far away but this update prevents hammer from hitting players in a distance. 
So basically we have to be at a minimum distance from a player to hit them, and in my knowledge, I could inflict close to max damage in this minimum range without any augment. 
So the pellet dispersion doesn't matter here, Hence slugger need not be equipped.
One way or another, this needs to be fixed.

My experience lately with slugger was quite disappointing.

[VIC2000 92]

5 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Well if you try to sit at longer than 120 yards with Shaft permanently (let's say on Brest on the upper section of the base), you are not going to be very effective. Players might not be in the open all the time, but often enough that you can fire faster than once every 12 seconds (recharge + shot charging time), typically. I assume you have noticed all the Shafts that love the camping playstyle still complaining? That style of play is still not very viable, and yes you will do much better with Rail or Gauss. Might get less one shots, but your average damage output is going to be a lot higher.

On the other hand if you get into medium range to use the arcade shots in between scoped shots, Shaft is now effective. I suppose you could still call it a long-range turret since you can pick off one long-range target every 10 seconds or so, but you definitely also need to be getting into medium range with the current design, and with Rail or Gauss you could avoid doing that if you wanted to.

All that and still the fact remains crystal clear, shaft can still ONE SHOT better than rail or gauss. 

You kinda go off tangent slightly, when a more concise and far shorter post would suffice.  

[stat.padder 225]

I agree about slugger being useless.

I would like to add that I feel pretty much the same about blunderbuss. It isn't useless, but the critical shot lost most of it's purpose since for me that only serves as a way to ignore protection. Before update I would hit multiple targets from bigger distance and sometimes deal max dmg, because of critical. 

Critical had 3 purposes: ignore protection, hit multiple targets easily and critical by itself is good way to deal high dmg over greater distances (40-50 meters is NOT great distance).* Also one one shotting which it still can.

Now it only ignores protection with rare shots that hit multiple targets. Also paladins OD makes it useless, which was frustrating enough before. 

Edit: now with it I get constantly wrecked by freeze ap and isida vampire. Twins is more useful for me.

Edited December 12, 2021 by stat.padder

[Spy 14,687]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:23 PM, numericable said:

 

 

22 hours ago, nikunj04 said:

 

Posts moved.

[Mr.Spark 240]

Use Freeze, Smoky, Striker and Shaft

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

8 hours ago, VIC2000 said:

All that and still the fact remains crystal clear, shaft can still ONE SHOT better than rail or gauss. 

You kinda go off tangent slightly, when a more concise and far shorter post would suffice.  

It can still one shot, but if you are only doing that every 12-13 seconds at best, that isn't enough to top the scoreboards against a good Rail or Gauss which let's say, is also trying to camp in a similar way to you. If you try to camp with Shaft at long range, it isn't viable - unless you are happy to sit middle of the score table at best. Railgun is my most used turret, so I know perfectly well that it is very capable of camping (although not the ideal playstyle).

I do tend to type too much lol - but I am trying to explain how Shaft currently is, when most people don't know how Shaft now works or haven't tried it. It is not a camping turret any longer, and since you have to get into medium range for arcade shots you can't camp as effectively with it (from very long range) as with Rail or Gauss. Shaft is now "get into medium range, fire the occasional long range shot and fill in with arcade shots in between". It is not "sit at 120+ yards relying only on scoped shots". That playstyle is pretty dead, unless as I say, if you want low scores. 

[Catbird 117]

10 hours ago, Moisthero said:

now that it takes 11 sec. to reload, snipers will tend to stay in snipe mode until they release their shot because it will take them 11 sec. to reload, so it is very costly for them to be in that mode and not aim to do damage. So now it will be the revers - I too now stay longer in snipe simply because I regret releasing without a kill.

Actually, I would say it's a lot less costly to waste shots now, since the reload will be shorter if you cancel the shot before it's fully loaded. So if you see the target is gone/destroyed already, you can just cancel, reload quicker and move to another spot. It's true it's still slower than pre-patch #666, but it does make a significant difference. Before the present update, you would get the full 10 second reload regardless of shot charge, which was really bad for quickscopes. In my case it basically invalidated my entire way of using Shaft. I like to do blind quickscopes just before reaching a corner in case someone is there. Pre-666 the reload was so fast that by the time I reached the next angle my charge would be back. #666 made this completely impractical. Now with this new update, I am able to do blind corner quickscopes again. It really made a big difference for me, even if you have to be more careful than before.

I do agree that sniping shots still are much more precious than they used to be, and I find myself spending relatively more time in sniping mode than before. The way I see it, now you should enter sniping mode only once you have identified a target or an angle where the chances of someone coming through in the next few seconds are high. If there is no one, quickly cancel the shot to get to the next one quicker. And I would say arcade shots are actually useful now. The increased range and firepower isn't negligible, and in my case it has increased the number of kills I get on average significantly.

tl;dr: I would argue that after this update the penalty for wasting sniping shots has decreased, because shorter reload and better arcade shots.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Catbird

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

It can still one shot, but if you are only doing that every 12-13 seconds at best, that isn't enough to top the scoreboards against a good Rail or Gauss which let's say, is also trying to camp in a similar way to you. If you try to camp with Shaft at long range, it isn't viable - unless you are happy to sit middle of the score table at best. Railgun is my most used turret, so I know perfectly well that it is very capable of camping (although not the ideal playstyle).

I do tend to type too much lol - but I am trying to explain how Shaft currently is, when most people don't know how Shaft now works or haven't tried it. It is not a camping turret any longer, and since you have to get into medium range for arcade shots you can't camp as effectively with it (from very long range) as with Rail or Gauss. Shaft is now "get into medium range, fire the occasional long range shot and fill in with arcade shots in between". It is not "sit at 120+ yards relying only on scoped shots". That playstyle is pretty dead, unless as I say, if you want low scores. 

How often you think a Shaft should be able to kill targets?  12-13 seconds "at best" gives it ... how many kills in a 15-min battle?

Rail takes 2 -3 shots unless it's very lucky.  How long does it take Rail to do 3 shots - assuming the target just sits there and waits for the follow-up?  And don't forget about RKs...

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

How often you think a Shaft should be able to kill targets?  12-13 seconds "at best" gives it ... how many kills in a 15-min battle?

Rail takes 2 -3 shots unless it's very lucky.  How long does it take Rail to do 3 shots - assuming the target just sits there and waits for the follow-up?  And don't forget about RKs...

You are not going to get a kill or find a target every time, that will be your best case scenario to kill 12 or 14 seconds apart (plus targets may well have 50% Shaft protection, and will not necessarily be one-shot to kill). Railgun on the other hand can kill maybe every 4 seconds (optimally) if you get lucky, or maybe even land a double kill. You can one-shot light hulls with Railgun critical (as well of course, you can finish off already damaged targets), and I am very often two-shotting targets, so it is far from the case that you will always need 3 shots. Being able to shoot only every 12-14 seconds is not going to get you to the top of the table, when competing against competent team mates.

Or as I said, you can also use Gauss - EMP/AP or Adrenaline. Both Rail or Gauss can camp better than Shaft at long range, that is the case - try it in game and let's see your performance with both, if you don't agree with me. I have tried it and I can confirm what I am saying from experience.

Shaft is good now when fighting at medium range. Camping all game long, using purely scoped mode shots however - not terribly effective.

Edited December 13, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Railgun on the other hand can kill maybe every 4 seconds (optimally) if you get lucky,

NO it can not.  The stars would have to align - perfectly.  This is NOT a typical Rail encounter. Even then... we're talking light hull.  Rail does not do enough damage to one-shot a medium hull.

Even the JUG would find that very difficult to do.

Are you discounting the fact that targets of Rail also have opportunity to use RK?  Only those with high shaft module get a chance to use the RK.

Edited December 12, 2021 by wolverine848

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

2 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

NO it can not.  The stars would have to align - perfectly.  This is NOT a typical Rail encounter. Even then... we're talking light hull.  Rail does not do enough damage to one-shot a medium hull.

Even the JUG would find that very difficult to do.

Are you discounting the fact that targets of Rail also have opportunity to use RK?  Only those with high shaft module get a chance to use the RK.

OK admittedly having tested further, camping with Shaft is a bit better than I thought, because the range of the arcade shots is actually pretty good, even on the biggest of maps (especially if you use Dictator or Hornet to get to get some infinite range supercharged arcade shots every so often, in between snipes). And you can always use them on any targets that are coming in to attack, who will be in closer range. However you still get kills much faster with Gauss, and with Railgun you get as many, or nearly as many kills, and more assists. So I would still prefer Gauss or Rail for pure camping (although I would not really tend to play that style). But Shaft however is great now, when used for mobile play.

As for your question about repair kits - well they can't use repair so easily if you have EMP Railgun, as I have. Also with stun Railgun, they will often be unable to escape to cover before your second shot (or before allies can help out). If you don't have either of those, you can also get many kills with death herald compulsor, or have a higher chance to get one-shot kills with Destabilized Rounds (although it won't help in one-shotting medium hulls against equal gearscore targets).

Here is a comparison (last 2 games I just played) where I tried pure camping and no objectives, first with Shaft (Short-band emitters)/Dictator/Booster and 2nd with Gauss(EMP)/Dictator/Booster. Couldn't wait all day for similar maps, but Gauss was easily better - although Shaft was not too bad, the arcade shots were reasonably useful even on the largest map in MM.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

34 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

OK admittedly having tested further, camping with Shaft is a bit better than I thought, because the range of the arcade shots is actually pretty good, even on the biggest of maps (especially if you use Dictator or Hornet to get to get some infinite range supercharged arcade shots every so often, in between snipes). And you can always use them on any targets that are coming in to attack, who will be in closer range. However you still get kills much faster with Gauss, and with Railgun you get as many, or nearly as many kills, and more assists. So I would still prefer Gauss or Rail for pure camping (although I would not really tend to play that style). But Shaft however is great now, when used for mobile play.

As for your question about repair kits - well they can't use repair so easily if you have EMP Railgun, as I have. Also with stun Railgun, they will often be unable to escape to cover before your second shot (or before allies can help out). If you don't have either of those, you can also get many kills with death herald compulsor, or have a higher chance to get one-shot kills with Destabilized Rounds (although it won't help in one-shotting medium hulls against equal gearscore targets).

Here is a comparison (last 2 games I just played) where I tried pure camping and no objectives, first with Shaft (Short-band emitters)/Dictator/Booster and 2nd with Gauss(EMP)/Dictator/Booster. Couldn't wait all day for similar maps, but Gauss was easily better - although Shaft was not too bad, the arcade shots were reasonably useful even on the largest map in MM.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

For whatever reason DEVs are still favoring Rail with their augments.  Has the most augments and some of the most potent ones. EMP and Stun suffer no crit damage reduction, unlike turrets such as smoky.   It's kind of ridiculous.

Success with Rail has more to do with the way Devs want to pump up that turret than it has to do with the turrets "stock" mechanics being great at long range or anything...

[It_Aint_Too_Late 144]

This update is just pain, nothing else.

[wanderson17 15]

Great to see the Dev Team showing some love to my beloved Shaft. Although, I would request for you guys to show some love to smoky. It is been under utilized because it can’t keep up with something like Gaus, striker or even Thunder. Maybe next update we can get some love for Smoky. this update was very good. 

 

On 12/9/2021 at 8:48 PM, Tank_Cleaver said:

This change in addition to the 10 second sniping reload has completely ruined the HC augment. I could go make a sandwich between sniping reloads. They should just remove it from the game. 
 

 

To be honest, a Mk7-20 Shaft without argument is already good enough to vaporize most players. My shaft is Mk7-12 and I am doing 3800 plus damage per shot with double damage activated without augment. That is super strong when you think about the fact that most Halls besides Mammoth don’t even have that much HP. Then you add the fact that people are scare of Strike, freeze, tesla and hammer, most people don’t even use shaft protection. So I don’t see too much of a problem here. But that is just my personal view. 

 

On 12/12/2021 at 6:14 AM, Moisthero said:

I don't understand. The loading time was supposed to be shortened, That was the massage. What has passive or aggressive game got to do with it?  I am also tired of players not understanding what is defending the flag. I am close to the base, so I put mines around it, I fight off intruders, and when possible give long range support to our attackers, and also try to keep the enemy at a distance. I think that's pretty active. What is wrong with that? Anyway, I am not sure what you mean by your comment.

Complete agree. Most players fail to understand the true purpose of a shaft. I see people now a days trying to capture the flag with a hornet and a shaft. I just don’t understand why. I agree with everything you said. Also depending on the map, you might also run a healing augment on the shaft to help teammates if you are free from intruders. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by At_Shin
Posts Merged.

[NobleBird 5]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:31 AM, 0179432 said:

I can see giving Magnum Mortar a bit of a nerf, but removing splash completely?  Good luck finishing near the top of leaderboard....to the trash bin u go!

Yeah, that came out of nowhere. A little warning would've been nice. I spent a couple days trying to figure out whether it was a programming change or whether the system was just screwing up and not counting my damage.

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 minutes ago, NobleBird said:

Yeah, that came out of nowhere. A little warning would've been nice. I spent a couple days trying to figure out whether it was a programming change or whether the system was just screwing up and not counting my damage.

Well - it IS laying a mine.  Splash comes from explosive shells.  Makes no sense for those explosive shells to not ruin the mine.

[NobleBird 5]

5 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Well - it IS laying a mine.  Splash comes from explosive shells.  Makes no sense for those explosive shells to not ruin the mine.

Y'know, I thought about that, after I posted. Regular shells from that turret explode on contact with the ground, and cause splash damage. The "mortar" rounds do nor explode if they don't hit metal, but just lie there as sneaky little mines. Therefore, logically, they shouldn't cause splash damage.
So, in the interest of reality and logic, let's remove the splash damage there.
At the same time that they remove all flying tanks from the game.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

After the last server restart, there has been a massive improvement to the hit registration of Hammer and Isida on TO Mobile. After more than a year, I can finally properly play Isida offensively and finally use a Hammer that is not Blunderbuss, Dragon's Breath or Slugger. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:11 AM, Marcus said:

 

• Hammer

  • Max crit chance has been increased from 10% to 12%;

  • Range of max damage has been decreased from 40-60 to 30-40 m.;

  • Range of min damage has been decreased from 50-70 to 40-50 m.;

  • Range of displaying the sight mark distance has been decreased from 40-60 to 35-45 m.;

• Twins

  • Projectile speed has been increased from 40-60 to 50-60 (m/sec);

  • Range of max damage has been decreased from 40-60 to 30-40 m.;

  • Range of min damage and displaying the sight mark distance have been decreased from 50-70 to 40-50 m.;

• Ricochet

  • Max crit chance has been increased from 10% to 12%;

  • Max number of bounces has been decreased from 20 to 10;

  • Range of max damage has been decreased from 40-60 to 30-40 m.;

  • Range of min damage and displaying the sight mark distance have been decreased from 50-70 to 40-50 m.;

Reducing the maximum damage range to 40m? Alright. But was it really necessary to reduce the minimum damage range as well? I feel demotivated playing short range turrets in large maps. 

 

On 12/9/2021 at 9:11 AM, Marcus said:

• Smoky

  • Reload time has been decreased from 1.8-1.4 to 1.6-1.2 s.;

  • Range of max damage has been decreased from 70-100 to 60-80 m.;

  • Range of min damage and displaying the sight mark distance have been decreased from 120-170 to 80-120 m;

  • Weak damage percentage has been decreased from 50% to 25%;

Quite powerful now, maybe even too powerful at close range but it's fanservice that players have been requesting for Smoky since the critical hit update. 

 

On 12/9/2021 at 9:11 AM, Marcus said:

• • Thunder

    • Range of max damage has been decreased from 70-100 to 60-80 m.;

    • Range of min damage has been decreased from 100-150 to 80-120 m.;

    • Displaying the sight mark distance has been decreased from 120-170 to 80-120 m.;

    • Weak damage percentage has been decreased from 50% to 25%;

Thunder is at its lowest state now and it's genuinely not fun to use anymore. It's time to complete this template already. 

[CrazyTiroCerto 0]

@asem.harbi Ficou horrível.
It was horrible. Magnum is very hard to play, it's hard when the enemy is closer, the shot can cross over him (her). Now if we are using mortar we need a bull eyes to take damage. The time to reload is so long that we die before that we could try defender us. Now  is very worse, should be better, but not...
 

[Abellia 504]

5 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Reducing the maximum damage range to 40m? Alright. But was it really necessary to reduce the minimum damage range as well? I feel demotivated playing short range turrets in large maps. 

 

Quite powerful now, maybe even too powerful at close range but it's fanservice that players have been requesting for Smoky since the critical hit update. 

 

Thunder is at its lowest state now and it's genuinely not fun to use anymore. It's time to complete this template already. 

I've pretty much given up on the template being completed properly. At this point, just shove a stupidly high crit rate on it, release a terrible looking Thunder HD, and call it a day - whatever they need to do to sell Thunder skins, right?