valid Buff Crusader's OD

[Cleric 1,385]

It is obvious that Paladin's OD is much easier, feasible and potentially more powerful than Crusader's. This is also the reason why more players are playing Paladin instead of Crusader, despite the two hulls are 90% the same.

The goal of this suggestion is to make Crusader's OD easier to use, because as you all know, it is quite easy to miss with the Cryo Cannon in longer ranged while it is basically suicide while using in short range.

 

The idea as follow:

Change the Cryo Cannon from a projectile to a beam. i.e. this:

 

The advantages are as follow

1. It is harder to miss because a beam doesn't have a traveling time
2. Even if you miss, it is easy to re-adjust the aim and still able to deal most of the damage instead of missing it completely. Because the beam will be doing constant damage instead of burst damage.
3. No splash damage, no self damage. To be fair, I don't find the splash to be that useful anyway.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Warpriest

[NikmanGT 4,375]

Under Review Valid

That accounts for a major change in the Crusader's overdrive, in fact it will change it completely.

[Maf 32,305]

I just want the icicle to stop phasing through enemy tanks. That fix alone would be a decent buff.

Also, Crusader's OD is mostly on-par with the other hulls at the moment, and the current OD mechanics require quite a lot of skill to use effectively, which is nice. I think it's Paladin that needs to be nerfed instead.

[Cleric 1,385]

7 minutes ago, Maf said:

I just want the icicle to stop phasing through enemy tanks. That fix alone would be a decent buff.

Also, Crusader's OD is mostly on-par with the other hulls at the moment. I think it's Paladin that needs to be nerfed instead.

The Devs will argue that it is due to latency and lag, which you should have already know, they are not gonna do anything with it. If that's the case, why not just make it easier to aim? The main issue of Crusader's OD is it is super easy to miss. When it hits, it is "on-par with the other hulls at the moment", but the problem is you are gonna miss it 50% of the time due to various reasons.

[Maf 32,305]

9 minutes ago, Warpriest said:

The Devs will argue that it is due to latency and lag, which you should have already know, they are not gonna do anything with it.

I don't think it's that simple. There have been multiple bugs in the past which were fixed (or claimed to be fixed) by a change that was unrelated to improving latency. I think it's likely that there's just some object collision issues that cause the impact to go undetected.

13 minutes ago, Warpriest said:

but the problem is you are gonna miss it 50% of the time due to various reasons.

Well... git gud

(jk I miss it all the time too)

[Incorp 2,084]

Using crusader has always given me a feeling like I got more skills, cuz I have always been great at aiming with it. The beam suggestion is interesting but removes the satisfaction whenever I hit someone.  Also, parkour by the recoil will be impossible.

[Cleric 1,385]

30 minutes ago, Incorp said:

Using crusader has always given me a feeling like I got more skills, cuz I have always been great at aiming with it. The beam suggestion is interesting but removes the satisfaction whenever I hit someone.  Also, parkour by the recoil will be impossible.

The strangest part about this OD is, it is designed to snipe lonely enemies from long range, but the reality is because the projectile is super slow, and the delay of the projectile being fired is super long, you can't really snipe anyone unless they are literally standing still. And if you get too close, you will blow you yourself up. 

So the room for the OD to actually work is tiny. 

 

The worst thing is, when you are about to fire it, some one bump into you or block your line of sight. Wasted...

Edited March 9, 2022 by Warpriest

[Maf 32,305]

51 minutes ago, Warpriest said:

The strangest part about this OD is, it is designed to snipe lonely enemies from long range, but the reality is because the projectile is super slow, and the delay of the projectile being fired is super long, you can't really snipe anyone unless they are literally standing still. And if you get too close, you will blow you yourself up. 

So the room for the OD to actually work is tiny. 

Well, in that case the logical thing to do is to add lock-on to Crusader shots. The feature already exists on Striker — just need to apply it to Crusader projectiles.

[Dopamine 2,161]

1 minute ago, Maf said:

Well, in that case the logical thing to do is to add lock-on to Crusader shots. The feature already exists on Striker — just need to apply it to Crusader projectiles.

That seems like a sensible idea.

The delay between od activation and the shot fired could be the lock on time and if you don't manage to lock on to anyone, it would shot a regular, unguided icicle.

[NikmanGT 4,375]

29 minutes ago, Maf said:

Well, in that case the logical thing to do is to add lock-on to Crusader shots. The feature already exists on Striker — just need to apply it to Crusader projectiles.

I don't actually understand how will it work with an icicle, which basically consumes a whole Overdrive charge. After locking, if it locks on, the crusader should bend or travel after its enemy like a striker? Or if it doesn't, the locking-on process would be useless, because then again, anyone could dodge against a single straight icicle from a distance.

[numericable 2,375]

Something weird is that i had the EXACT same idea as you, to make it a beam or a laser, reajustable, that would destroy everything on its sight for a short time but never posted it in idea and suggestion because i knew developers would never do it. Instead i just moved to paladin as my crusader's od buff was not done... i hope this can be done so i will be playing back crusader over paladin.

[Cleric 1,385]

1 hour ago, Maf said:

Well, in that case the logical thing to do is to add lock-on to Crusader shots. The feature already exists on Striker — just need to apply it to Crusader projectiles.

I still prefer the beam.

First it doesn't make too much sense in terms of physics for an ice spear(?) to be homing. Second, it is hard to balance. A homing projectile that is able to deal massive burst damage? That doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

Also, I just remember one additional issue of the current Crusader OP. It can't shoot over any type of ramps even if your main weapon able to.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Warpriest

[Dopamine 2,161]

1 hour ago, Warpriest said:

I still prefer the beam.

First it doesn't make too much sense in terms of physics for an ice spear(?) to be homing.

Yeah, you have got a point here.

I don't like the beam idea mainly because I don't think crusader should be able to shoot through multiple targets like, for example, railgun can.

Maybe a good compromise would be to massively increase the projectile velocity along with a bigger projectile diameter?

 

1 hour ago, Warpriest said:

Also, I just remember one additional issue of the current Crusader OP. It can't shoot over any type of ramps even if your main weapon able to.

Is this an issue that should be fixed though?

It is like saying you cannot shoot over obstacles with viking that you could if you were using dictator.

Or am I getting you wrong somehow?

[Maf 32,305]

2 hours ago, NikmanGT said:

After locking, if it locks on, the crusader should bend or travel after its enemy like a striker?

Well yeah, obviously. What else do you think "locking on" could mean?

1 hour ago, Warpriest said:

First it doesn't make too much sense in terms of physics for an ice spear(?) to be homing.

Just slap a "quantum nanoparticles" label on it and you got your explanation.

1 hour ago, Warpriest said:

Second, it is hard to balance. A homing projectile that is able to deal massive burst damage? That doesn't sound like a good idea.

But an overdrive is meant to be powerful, right? Things like charge rates and damage numbers can be balanced after the fact. But I'd much rather have a near-guaranteed hit with reduced damage, than high damage that just phases through tanks and gets wasted a lot of the time.

[Cleric 1,385]

2 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

Yeah, you have got a point here.

I don't like the beam idea mainly because I don't think crusader should be able to shoot through multiple targets like, for example, railgun can.

Maybe a good compromise would be to massively increase the projectile velocity along with a bigger projectile diameter?

Beam doesn't have to shoot through targets. In fact, I said nothing about whether it should. The main advantage of the beam is, there are more rooms for errors. LIke even if you are getting bumped or blocked, just re-adjust and you will be good

[Cleric 1,385]

5 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

Is this an issue that should be fixed though?

It is like saying you cannot shoot over obstacles with viking that you could if you were using dictator.

Or am I getting you wrong somehow?

Let me give you an example, let say the MM version of sandbox. Normally you can target the enemies on the raised platform and damage them with your main weapon. But when you are using Crusader's OD, it is unable to do so. 

[Maf 32,305]

Honestly, I was never a fan of the icicle thing in the first place. Felt like a cheap copy of the Ares OD, and a tank shooting a sharp icicle sounds like something a child would come up with (no offence, devs). The laser idea does seem pretty cool.

However, it does require significant resources to develop and implement it, compared to making a homing icicle, so I don't think devs would go with this option.

[Cleric 1,385]

 

1 minute ago, Maf said:

Honestly, I was never a fan of the icicle thing in the first place. Felt like a cheap copy of the Ares OD, and a tank shooting a sharp icicle sounds like something a child would come up with (no offence, devs). The laser idea does seem pretty cool.

However, it does require significant resources to develop and implement it, compared to making a homing icicle, so I don't think devs would go with this option.

Actually, particle effects are one of the easiest thing to do in game development. That's if you don't do too many fine tunning that is. Besides, you can simply put the old Vulcan firing mechanism with a larger version of railgun's particle effect, if you really don't want to make anything new.

[Maf 32,305]

Just now, Warpriest said:

 

Actually, particle effects are one of the easiest thing to do in game development. That's if you don't do too many fine tunning that is. Besides, you can simply put the old Vulcan firing mechanism with a larger version of railgun's particle effect, if you really don't want to make anything new.

That is a good point, except for the first sentence. Pretty sure visual effects require a lot of work to be done properly if you want them to look decent, and the artists team is hella busy with a lot of things right now, including remastered maps and HD skins.

[Dopamine 2,161]

10 minutes ago, Warpriest said:

Let me give you an example, let say the MM version of sandbox. Normally you can target the enemies on the raised platform and damage them with your main weapon. But when you are using Crusader's OD, it is unable to do so. 

Yeah but isn´t this again just because the point your OD is shooting from is lower than your turret, therefore unable to overcome some obstacles (given a fixed max vertical autoaim)?

[Cleric 1,385]

7 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

Yeah but isn´t this again just because the point your OD is shooting from is lower than your turret, therefore unable to overcome some obstacles (given a fixed max vertical autoaim)?

Yeah this is how it works currently. But don't you think it defeats the purpose of of being a long range sniping tool? I either have to go up the ramp and fire at extremely close range, or only able to use it in ranged when me and the target are absolutely on the same elevation (like the desert map).

Edited March 9, 2022 by Warpriest

[LSHTV 229]

8 hours ago, Warpriest said:

It is obvious that Paladin's OD is much easier, feasible and potentially more powerful than Crusader's. This is also the reason why more players are playing Paladin instead of Crusader, despite the two hulls are 90% the same.

The goal of this suggestion is to make Crusader's OD easier to use, because as you all know, it is quite easy to miss with the Cryo Cannon in longer ranged while it is basically suicide while using in short range.

 

The idea as follow:

Change the Cryo Cannon from a projectile to a beam. i.e. this:

 

The advantages are as follow

1. It is harder to miss because a beam doesn't have a traveling time
2. Even if you miss, it is easy to re-adjust the aim and still able to deal most of the damage instead of missing it completely. Because the beam will be doing constant damage instead of burst damage.
3. No splash damage, no self damage. To be fair, I don't find the splash to be that useful anyway.

Splash makes Juggernaut flip or any other tank who can survive crusader overdrive will get big impact by splash, it's also used in Parkour battles and to catch Gold Boxes as well. I agree they have to buff crusader overdrive but without third part.

[TheCongoSpider 8,954]

I would like it very much if the bugs with Crusader's Overdrive were fixed and QOL changes were instated. That alone is enough to increase its potency. It's been more than a year and still Crusader's Overdrive has so many bugs that are being ignored.

 

• Icicles losing their hitbox when encountering a destroyed tank
• Icicles losing their hitbox and spawning in a completely different place to where you were
• Icicles losing their hitbox when about to hit a target
• Icicles losing their hitbox when desyncs happen
• Icicles being stopped by allies

 

It's about time something be done about this. It's sickening how they coined this the initial prime counter to Paladin with all these issues it's facing.

[NikmanGT 4,375]

Status changed to Valid ^^

[wolverine848 13,097]

7 hours ago, Maf said:

Well, in that case the logical thing to do is to add lock-on to Crusader shots. The feature already exists on Striker — just need to apply it to Crusader projectiles.

It would then need a lock-on period either longer than the 1.1 second delay or ... with a laser.

And ODs should not be guaranteed success.  Hunter has to get close so can be killed as it tries to get into range or during it's 1.1 second delay while it is completely exposed.  Wasp bomb can be negated during it's timer.  Titan has many counters, etc...