v-log Tanki Online V-LOG: Episode 490

[CasusBelli 7]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:36 PM, Romantically said:

Hello Opex

Hello Opex

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 10/11/2023 at 12:01 AM, Opex-Rah said:

The old Tanki is dead and you can’t bring them back.

Like to see you being so straightforward

Better to be clear-cut rather than keep people in delusion.

[emrakul 7,801]

I'll try go back to the original question: (why are long events bad?)

On 10/7/2023 at 3:19 PM, Opex-Rah said:

Blasphemy or not? I'd like to see more opinions, pls

If you like reading essays, I got you. I wish I finally learned to write in fewer words...

Spoiler

For me, it's not the length, but how unique and "specific" it is. There are 3 main events for me. Tanki birthday, halloween and new year. They are all very unique, 2 are festive and the holidays are special on their own, and tanki built them nicely over the years. And birthday was perfectly made unique on its own. Oh and to be clear, I care mostly about goldboxes, so I'm maybe not the right person to ask.

 

I know I'm going too far from the topic, but it's related. If you make the event too long, it... starts being too much and at some point you have that "I'm full" feeling, when you don't care about the event anymore and remember the excitement you had. This is in my opinion the key. If I don't want the event to end, it means I'm enjoying it. Then it's only good if it ends on that "I wish I could have played longer" feeling, which makes the event worth it. If you squeeze all of the excitement, by having the event last for too long, players will remember the event as boring and are more likely to not be excited again for that, other other events. You can extend the event and keep it exciting by adding more stuff, like multiple different event modes, but not forever.

 

This is also a problem with all the common ultra weekends and other events. If everything is ultra, then nothing is. If everything is too good, then you no longer feel like the once-a-year events are good. You are doing great so far with keeping the 50% sales stuck to 3 per year, those keep up the value. (tho I feel like you/marketing just doesn't want to allow 50% too often for economy reasons, but it still works out well - I may be wrong on this) The other stuff like missions within these events feel quite similar tho.

Back to the core again, if the special halloween "season", which is tied to just few days (maybe extended to a few weeks due to the marketing in all shops) lasts almost an entire month in tanki, the magic mood just vanishes. I know you'll bring a unique mode each week, but it still is "wait, halloween event so early?", followed by "wow nice, another halloween event" and then "wait it's still halloween event" and "this is boring". Halloween is used as example, applies to other too.
Now, I want to mention, there should still be some duration, so that many players can join and enjoy it. And with this in mind, maybe we are all wrong and very long events are good just for this reason? I don't know yet.

As for my personal experience, it comes from the event modes. If I enjoy them, they are playable for me, it's +1. If they are not, the weekend just gets ignored and shortly I don't even remember it existed. If all events are good, for example if all 4 weeks were perfect for me, I'd be happy at first, but fed up of halloween by the 3rd one. If all of them are terrible, I'd hate the entire halloween celebration (oh, now I remember I hated the last year's celebration, that's why I don't remember what event modes there were. I recall I didn't enjoy it tho.).
In case of different preferences and tastes among the playerbase, few different events modes should satisfy all of them, which is quite important. Question is really, how long can you drag the event until it gets too long.

Yea, this doesn't entirely support the original comment, just part of it.

On 10/7/2023 at 9:40 AM, Maths said:

Events like Halloween, New Year, and Tanki’s birthday should not be long like a month. They should be no longer than 2 weeks. In this way, the excitement for the events increases.

In short, the entire essay points to one thing - it's important to keep the excitement for the event high. Question isn't if making the event longer also makes it boring, but when does it start getting boring. Maths mentioned 2 weeks. I didn't mention a number of weeks, but rather how much I'm interested to play from the whole celebration. Maybe those 2 weeks apply here as well, but as in "There should not be more than 2 event modes you are excited to play, per event, otherwise it gets boring."

I'm curious why was a 4 week duration chosen. Experiment? It guess it is coming from some observed statistic, or an assumption. What will happen to the Day of the dead event, which was scheduled right after halloween last 2 years, and it was themed in same spirit as halloween. If those add up, it might end up feeling as a 6+ week halloween.
I don't expect you to answer all of these, but I'd appreciate if you answer some, or at least add your thoughts on this.
Once the halloween event is over, I'll update you on how it went in opinion.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 10/10/2023 at 2:36 PM, Romantically said:

games need to develop and improve over time

And in a significant number of people's opinion here... it hasn't improved over time.

Change does not always equal improvement.

The only thing that has 'improved' is the methods by which tanki tries to make itself more money.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:24 AM, Batmobile said:

I only respond to a question if it leads to an useful discussion xD

Actually, I think those were the exact words he told me back then.

On 10/10/2023 at 11:31 AM, Opex-Rah said:

You did not pay attention to what I just said, so I’ll say it again:

The old Tanki is dead and you can’t bring them back.

The reason why you feel like you are talking to the wall is because you keep asking for the Old Tanki to come back. When you asking to remove augments, remove hover hulls, revert this, and revert that all the Developers can hear is a request to bring the Old Tanki back. You keep asking for it and feel frustrated because ‘for some reason’ your feedback doesn’t seem to get through. If only you could find the right words, if only you could be convincing, persistent enough, if only you could yell loud enough they would hear you.

Honestly, trying to tell some of the players to not suggest "bringing back old tanki" is kinda pointless as they wont listen. And some players will keep nagging about these things.

Its better to just ignore them and to listen to those who are more willing to make changes in their suggestions.

On 10/10/2023 at 11:31 AM, Opex-Rah said:

You may disagree that we can’t do that, but as you can probably see, it doesn’t change how things go. Years are going by and it doesn’t change. This is why I ask for certain specific feedback. The only way is a way forward. Again: You can fight what I am doing or you can ride along with me to have a chance to change something. It's your call.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm gonna tell you right now that I am currently neutral. I'm not gonna back you up or defend you, but I'm also not going to even bother getting in your way. I'm just looking on. I will still comment on whatever changes occur if I feel like it and make suggestions that you may or may not use.

On 10/10/2023 at 11:31 AM, Opex-Rah said:

This is going nowhere, again.

As for the event duration debate, I think longer events are good because it allows more people an opportunity to complete the missions and other stuff.

If the events are too short, I feel like I'd just skip them because I would rather spend some of that time doing something else.

[Batmobile 30]

On 10/11/2023 at 2:33 AM, PirateSpider said:

Actually, I think those were the exact words he told me back then.

The power of having one of the best long-term memory in the world lol

Also, i think they can improve the events if they give premium days more accessible. I'm saying this because i was playing so long when there i had premium account (maybe 6 hours a day), even when i was not having fun just for the shake of grinding exp. Now when the fun goes out (after 30 min), i stop immediately and it's better for me and my peace of mind.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Batmobile

[LyT 222]

I am to blame for this argument. But, I just have my opinion. Hope this turns out for good.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 10/11/2023 at 12:01 PM, Maths said:

I am to blame for this argument. But, I just have my opinion. Hope this turns out for good.

Nobody is to blame, its good you expressed your thoughts, and for more or less, I agree with you.

[Blutaar 1,904]

On 10/11/2023 at 12:20 AM, emrakul said:

  Reveal hidden contents

For me, it's not the length, but how unique and "specific" it is. There are 3 main events for me. Tanki birthday, halloween and new year. They are all very unique, 2 are festive and the holidays are special on their own, and tanki built them nicely over the years. And birthday was perfectly made unique on its own. Oh and to be clear, I care mostly about goldboxes, so I'm maybe not the right person to ask.

 

I know I'm going too far from the topic, but it's related. If you make the event too long, it... starts being too much and at some point you have that "I'm full" feeling, when you don't care about the event anymore and remember the excitement you had. This is in my opinion the key. If I don't want the event to end, it means I'm enjoying it. Then it's only good if it ends on that "I wish I could have played longer" feeling, which makes the event worth it. If you squeeze all of the excitement, by having the event last for too long, players will remember the event as boring and are more likely to not be excited again for that, other other events. You can extend the event and keep it exciting by adding more stuff, like multiple different event modes, but not forever.

 

This is also a problem with all the common ultra weekends and other events. If everything is ultra, then nothing is. If everything is too good, then you no longer feel like the once-a-year events are good. You are doing great so far with keeping the 50% sales stuck to 3 per year, those keep up the value. (tho I feel like you/marketing just doesn't want to allow 50% too often for economy reasons, but it still works out well - I may be wrong on this) The other stuff like missions within these events feel quite similar tho.

Back to the core again, if the special halloween "season", which is tied to just few days (maybe extended to a few weeks due to the marketing in all shops) lasts almost an entire month in tanki, the magic mood just vanishes. I know you'll bring a unique mode each week, but it still is "wait, halloween event so early?", followed by "wow nice, another halloween event" and then "wait it's still halloween event" and "this is boring". Halloween is used as example, applies to other too.
Now, I want to mention, there should still be some duration, so that many players can join and enjoy it. And with this in mind, maybe we are all wrong and very long events are good just for this reason? I don't know yet.

As for my personal experience, it comes from the event modes. If I enjoy them, they are playable for me, it's +1. If they are not, the weekend just gets ignored and shortly I don't even remember it existed. If all events are good, for example if all 4 weeks were perfect for me, I'd be happy at first, but fed up of halloween by the 3rd one. If all of them are terrible, I'd hate the entire halloween celebration (oh, now I remember I hated the last year's celebration, that's why I don't remember what event modes there were. I recall I didn't enjoy it tho.).
In case of different preferences and tastes among the playerbase, few different events modes should satisfy all of them, which is quite important. Question is really, how long can you drag the event until it gets too long.

Yea, this doesn't entirely support the original comment, just part of it.

@Opex-Rah As you specifically asked for our feedback, I guess I find it fair to share my thoughts as well after having played this game for roughly 13 years. 

Albeit I take your question seriously, I cannot find the words nor the time to type out an elaborative explanation. But above comment from emrakul summarises it nicely, and I therefore stand with their point(s). To add a personal side-note, I would prefer roughly 2-3 weeks of event so that I can still participate in events (studies and work) while the event will not become too dragging and boring. 

Best is to monitor this event and check players' feedback after it has ended. 

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:31 PM, Opex-Rah said:

When you asking to remove augments, remove hover hulls, revert this, and revert that

Nothing needs to be reverted. It needs to be balanced. Obviously you are not perfect when it comes to balancing and you make an oopsie and make new augment a little OP. Oh no.

The problem with augments is that they're either unstoppable craziness or unusable rust bucket and none in between. The current strat of Introduce OP aug then nerf it is completely fine if it means the augment stays PLAYABLE after it's nerfs without huge skill, luck or your other equipment barrier.

 

Hover hulls are hated by 99% of playerbase not because they hover but because they're CLEARLY, CLEARLY, CLEARLY unbalanced. From ODs that are  far too broken to "intentional features" that break the game design. One of the biggest problems is their sliding is WAY TOO FAST. I play on a laptop and hitting a flying hull from long distance is basically impossible because of it's super fast sliding that tracked hulls dont have. Also because the way they're placed while sliding the target is also way smaller.

 

And the rewards system clearly needs rework. Of course you don't want F2Ps to get shiny toys all the time but you have to give them more than tumbleweed from missions. If they feel pressured to buy instead of using buying as "speed up my progress" button, the chances are they won't buy.

[Jeers4U 665]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:05 AM, Kimura said:

Nothing needs to be reverted. It needs to be balanced.

I think the takeaway from this discussion, if anyone is still listening, is that the duration length of any event doesn't matter as long as the game is BALANCED.

(I also prefer to not 'sugar coat' things and let people live in their 'delusions')

[bigscott 4]

I've played Tanki since 2013 the game used to be fun an exciting I used to look forward to playing the next day I wanted to be the best I could be so I spent on my accounts to be strong since the last few years the game has gone down hill I've lost interest in the game  I've got every hull turret an protection maxed out and drones joining a battle and 1 shot an im dead where is the fun in that to me I understand the game is a business an you need to make money but driving peeps away from the game like me isn't good for the game

[ReisVerbal 42]

Is the game undergoing maintenance?
It's not working here

[Jeers4U 665]

On 10/11/2023 at 2:31 AM, Maths said:

I am to blame for this argument. But, I just have my opinion. Hope this turns out for good.

nah. you're ok.

communication--as in life, as in marriages, as in work, as in everything--is good

Stifling, stopping, and deleting communication and opinions (even contrary opinions and views) is always a bad thing

discussions and feedback can sometimes lead to disagreements--but how naive would a person be if they didn't expect an opposing view?

 

it's what happens after those discussions and disagreements that is important

you did nothing wrong

[SulfuricAcid 504]

On 10/10/2023 at 10:01 PM, Opex-Rah said:

This is going nowhere, again.

I made a point that I do hear you and you can influence how the game goes forward if you pay attention. And I got ignored right away. Well, this is a good reminder of why I prefer jokes and dodging to talking the point. Will keep doing that from this point on going forward. Anyway, I need to try one last time.

In a nutshell (yes, I can do this joke too) the old Tanki is dead and you can’t bring them back.

You did not pay attention to what I just said, so I’ll say it again:

The old Tanki is dead and you can’t bring them back.

The reason why you feel like you are talking to the wall is because you keep asking for the Old Tanki to come back. When you asking to remove augments, remove hover hulls, revert this, and revert that all the Developers can hear is a request to bring the Old Tanki back. You keep asking for it and feel frustrated because ‘for some reason’ your feedback doesn’t seem to get through. If only you could find the right words, if only you could be convincing, persistent enough, if only you could yell loud enough they would hear you.

No.

You need to read again what I’ve said and read it for what it is. I said your feedback is getting through. We hear you. I said that clearly and directly. We understand that you want the Old Tanki back.

We can’t do that.

You may disagree that we can’t do that, but as you can probably see, it doesn’t change how things go. Years are going by and it doesn’t change. This is why I ask for certain specific feedback. The only way is a way forward. Again: You can fight what I am doing or you can ride along with me to have a chance to change something. It's your call.

 

Totally true, literally if tanki hadn't changed and stayed as it was before, it would have been died in those years actually (as known as oldtanki years). Thus, Everything needs changes to adapt and go along with new terms otherwise it shall fall.

[MEXICAN-SKY 308]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:41 PM, PirateSpider said:

I already knew this side of hazel existed for almost 2 years now. He pretty much said the same thing to me then when I was asking him a question on his private group.

I left the group and the game because of it.

 

This is actually the second time I get to see this attitude of his, except this time its in a place where the whole world can see.

It's not a bad attitude as such. He's being very flippant, which is very disrespectful to those players who know the difference by what he posts and how he words it in a sentence.  What it is is the devs sticking to their own guide lines on how the game should progress, which means most of the updates are aimed at making "CASH" simple as that.

Tanki-Online has went down hill exponentially because of this particular attitude towards making cash, "DOMINATING" how the game evolves which is always going to be detrimental towards the majority of the player base.

Augments are despised as are floating hulls because of their mechanics giving them an unfair advantage in battle. 

My solution to the G/S problem (weak players) and the ranking system is a slam dunk of an idea and would lesson the negative impact of the ever increasing low G/S players, who are there primarily to make the numbers up as they very rarely have a positive impact on the game for the team they are on.

Bottom line is voicing your opinion via posts in the forum will never achieve much of anything of value, not as far as the majority of players are concerned.

The game needs many changes, which ones if any will ever get implemented is down to a coin toss and the ability of any change to make the game lots of cash.

As I have said many times over these last few years, the game will only get progressively worse with each update that it gets.

On 10/10/2023 at 12:54 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

Did you notice that this event did not have increased exp or crystals?

Can't believe you actually said that.

Not having increased XP means nothing as the XP is still way higher than any crystals you earn.

Here is an example of a typical battle (no premium EVER) 

I came joint top in this battle with 26/0 and as you can see all my efforts yielded was a disproportionate amount of XP compared to crystals, which were shambolic for the amount of damage I done to the enemy.

This is the ACUTE problem with the current ranking system and does no favours to most of the player base with low ranks, none at all. All it does is propel them to Legend rank far to quickly, which leaves them with a severely weak garage and UNABLE to compete against those Legends that have been established at that rank for a long time. 

MM is negatively impacted by this major flaw in the ranking/reward process. If this ratio were reversed then MM would over time even out and the ranks would be much closer together along with the G/S.

On 10/10/2023 at 3:14 PM, Batmobile said:

so low ranks won't have time to get a good garage and end up buying in the shop

As myself and a few friends of mine would say.....NAIL ON THE HEAD.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 3:14 PM, Batmobile said:

hat way, everyone would have his slice of the cake, casual players can play normally from september to mid-june, and tryharders could tryharding from 20th june to september.

Always looks good on paper, but in reality players play when and if they feel like it, regardless of the event are time of year.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 7:31 PM, Opex-Rah said:

I made a point that I do hear you and you can influence how the game goes forward if you pay attention.

I for one did not ignore your comments and processed them very carefully, I also pay attention. How the game goes forward/evolves is something that needs careful consideration and some of the ideas from players needs to be in the mix for consideration at the very least.

On 10/10/2023 at 7:31 PM, Opex-Rah said:

the old Tanki is dead and you can’t bring them back

Good, I don't want it back.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 7:31 PM, Opex-Rah said:

When you asking to remove augments

Augments were a good concept but as always, (MM) being a PRIME example, they are breaking the game to levels that are just not enjoyable. In the case of MM, it just does not work and in the case of augments, getting blown away by one shot even when maxed out is just ridiculous. 

On 10/10/2023 at 7:31 PM, Opex-Rah said:

remove hover hulls

ASAP please.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 7:31 PM, Opex-Rah said:

This is why I ask for certain specific feedback

I have gave very specific feedback over many years and not once did any of it get considered.

Most of my feedback is to do with the end result, meaning how players perform in battles, which is what everything players do (events, containers, shop, etc,etc.) is ultimately geared towards to. 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:56 AM, MEXICAN-SKY said:

It's not a bad attitude as such. He's being very flippant, which is very disrespectful to those players who know the difference by what he posts and how he words it in a sentence. 

Its not as bad for me now as it was 2 years ago. The only reason it had more affect on me back then was because I was in a completely different state of mind than I am now.

[Batmobile 30]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:12 AM, PirateSpider said:

Its not as bad for me now as it was 2 years ago. The only reason it had more affect on me back then was because I was in a completely different state of mind than I am now.

What was the cause of this change of mentality? 

[PirateSpider 1,489]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:18 AM, Batmobile said:

What was the cause of this change of mentality? 

A group of bullies who will relentlessly tear people down even using insults and provocation if your opinions and views didn't match theirs.

A few others that were probably so frustrated at the game and they sided with the bullies and did the same because why not I guess.

A biased forum mod that also sided with them. If the bullies insulted or provoked you, he would do nothing about it, while if you even try to stand up for yourself, your post would be the one to get taken down. (At least he no longer is a forum mod.)

And it didn't help that the mods that had fair judgment were way too lax.

All of this created a very toxic community in the forum.

Also this wasn't just one incident or two. This was a series of at least a couple dozen incidents over a 6 month period that I had to deal with.

Hazel's words just so happened to be the final straw.

 

So that is why I prefer a strict moderation system.