declined Introduce proper aiming for mouse controls

[Iquit 101]

get rid of the vertical auto assist aim for mouse controls. this old feature should be for keyboard controls only.

if youre using mouse controls, the game is practically playing itself and you are just along for the ride.

put an aim cursor on the screen and make little timmy manually vertically aim his rapid fire turret himself

its unfair enough getting hit by impact force while using mouse controls doesnt move the camera like it does with keyboard controls.

[Iquit 101]

I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if the current devs never used keyboard controls in their life unlike the devs of the past more than seven years ago imo.

I remember years ago when mouse controls werent any good even if I cared to use them. Now theyre so kid friendly its annoying.

Hover hulls and their overdrives have ruined this game. Not to mention the mobile version of the game.

[Maf 32,300]

Under review
Declined

You're right that the vertical auto-aim is a relic of keyboard controls and I agree that it makes sense for a shooting game to require precise aiming using mouse. That being said though, the idea has two problems:

• The aiming mechanism would likely need a complete rework, which could require dozens of man-hours.
• The change would not be received well by the users. Most existing mouse users would hate it, most keyboard users wouldn't care about it, and only a tiny portion of keyboard players like yourself would be happy to see mouse users struggle with aim.

This feels less like an idea to improve the game and more like you wanting mouse users to suffer because you hate to see mouse controls having an advantage while at the same time refusing to switch from the inferior keyboard.

 

On 1/9/2024 at 5:43 AM, master_howitzer said:

I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if the current devs never used keyboard controls in their life unlike the devs of the past more than seven years ago imo.

What devs of the past? Most decisions in Tanki Online development are made by lead developer @Opex-Rah, and he's been in the game since the beginning. In fact, he started off as a normal player and joined the devs in 2011 (I believe).

[mjmj5558 2,346]

If you find mouse controls so effective, why don't you just use them yourselves?

[Iquit 101]

I dont use mouse controls because it makes the game trivial and extremely dull compared to keyboard controls @mjmj5558 

pointing and clicking on tanks is so lame.. you and 90 something percent of players in this game will never understand

I'm just tired of little timmy pointing his camera at me and having the game do half or more of the work for him which kills me faster

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:44 PM, master_howitzer said:

pointing and clicking on tanks is so lame.. you and 90 something percent of players in this game will never understand

So that means you and the left 10% hold the correct opinion over the vast majority............ What happened to "Each person's perspective" ?

[DefkwargX 152]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:04 AM, master_howitzer said:

get rid of the vertical auto assist aim for mouse controls. this old feature should be for keyboard controls only.

This sentence of yours implies that both keyboard and mouse are equal in terms of vertical aim assist. 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 7:04 AM, master_howitzer said:

if youre using mouse controls, the game is practically playing itself and you are just along for the ride.

put an aim cursor on the screen and make little timmy manually vertically aim his rapid fire turret himself

But this sentence of yours implies that both keyboard and mouse aren't equal in terms of vertical aim assist.


Which one do you believe is true?


If you used both mouse and keyboard well, like me, you would have noticed that in both case, the vertical aim assist of a turret does most AND same amount of work when aiming vertically. 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 8:44 PM, master_howitzer said:

dont use mouse controls because it makes the game trivial and extremely dull compared to keyboard controls @mjmj5558 

pointing and clicking on tanks is so lame.. you and 90 something percent of players in this game will never understand

Learn to distinguish between subjectivity and objectivity. Mouse controls probably make the game trivial and dull FOR YOU and @mjmj5558 and 90% of players won't understand because we don't feel the way you feel. Many people could say the same about keyboard. Your refusal to use mouse control, according to me, is because [edited], as you only provided an unsubstantiated and false claim as reason to not switch to mouse.
 

On 1/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, Maf said:

You're right that the vertical auto-aim is a relic of keyboard control

He also believes that the vertical aim assist of mouse is better than that of keyboard, which is comical. He's tackling a nonexistent problem.

 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, Maf said:

I agree that it makes sense for a shooting game to require precise aiming using mouse

He has a problem with the vertical aim-assist of mouse but not with its horizontal aim assist. His solution would be to leave horizontal aim assist on but to completely remove the vertical one so that one needs pixel accuracy to aim vertically. Nonsense. What would the resultant vector of both planes be and I would like to know the ease with which people would be able to use it lol. 

His logical solution (to the nonexistent problem) would be to remove aim assist completely, which would cause an uproar in the community, as u mentioned, and because it simply is unnecessary, imo. I use keyboard for MM and mouse for XP/BP and i don't see the complete removal of aim-assist for mouse users as something necessary because they enjoy the same amount of aim assist as keyboard users.

My opinion is that people who say that mouse controls provide an unfair advantage over keyboard must step out of their comfort zone and learn how to use it, keeping in mind that the complexity of this task can be compared to the complexity of learning how to use the keyboard when they first joined the game. 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, Maf said:

Under review

Hence, i would advise you to reject this idea of his.

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:14 PM, master_howitzer said:

I dont use mouse controls because it makes the game trivial and extremely dull

Great, then surely we should keep mouse controls the way they are right now, otherwise you'd lose the feeling of superiority when using the epic-pro-gaming-skill keyboard controls. 

On 1/9/2024 at 8:28 PM, Assasin-TO said:

He has a problem with the vertical aim-assist of mouse but not with its horizontal aim assist

Horizontal aim assist? As far as I know, it only exists on the mobile version, and even there it's been heavily nerfed a couple years ago.

[DefkwargX 152]

@NikmanGT How is ''skill issue'' inappropriate, lmao? 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 8:39 PM, Maf said:

Horizontal aim assist? As far as I know, it only exists on the mobile version, and even there it's been heavily nerfed a couple years ago.

Uhhh, i don't know if it exists too in fact. I always believed that it existed because of the frequency with which pixel shots happen in my presence...
 

On 1/9/2024 at 8:39 PM, Maf said:

epic-pro-gaming-skill

lmao

Again, i ask u to change the ''Under review'' to ''Declined'' because the bloke has CD lol (Read my previous post completely if you didn't do so yet, or at least the first 3 sentences, please)

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:39 PM, Maf said:

Great, then surely we should keep mouse controls the way they are right now, otherwise you'd lose the feeling of superiority when using the epic-pro-gaming-skill keyboard controls. 

using both keyboard and mouse controls whenever i feel like it. 

mouse controls are OP and its not because it's mouse or whatever. it's because of... yup. flying monkey. strafe is way too overpowered and is clearly not intended to be in the game (them adding this 10 years after the games release and refusing to change anything that's being effected by it except a little patchnote that slowed down flying monkey's acceleration so much that you don't even notice is a good sign that the game was not intended to have this.)

keyboard controls have higher ceiling thus making them way more "overpowered" if it's in the hands  of experienced player because it allows for way more keyboard exclusive tricks. Except none of them come close to strafe. So if you'd like to spend more time and get 5 good tricks then keyboard. if you like braindead strafe feature then mouse. 

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:10 PM, Kimura said:

it's because of... yup. flying monkey

Mate, it's not 2021 anymore. Hopper is dead as hell. That "little patchnote" destroyed what little enjoyment that hull still had left in its gameplay after the numerous other nerfs before it.

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:36 PM, Maf said:

Mate, it's not 2021 anymore. Hopper is dead as hell. That "little patchnote" destroyed what little enjoyment that hull still had left in its gameplay after the numerous other nerfs before it.

I must be using 2021 hopper then cuz im still bobbing and weaving all over the place and people still miss half of their shots they direct at me point blank just because i use hopper. Not to say at long range I shoot my shot and hide before the physical round even reaches the enemy which in my eyes is pretty OP. And even if I dont hide look at hopper's size. Good look hitting 5 pixels on your screen without shaft in sniping mode. Crusader and Paladin "nerf"? What nerf? I feel no changes and I abused paladin a lot before the so called "nerf" and I didn't even realise they got nerfed. Same with ares.

The amount of time it takes to hide with flying monkey (any type) is like 0,5-1 second while ACTUAL TANKS take like 1-3. That's ignoring the fact that even if you ignore hiding times the way flying monkey is positioned already gives you an advantage 90% of the time because you need to turn your turret with a tank and it instantly makes you like 3 times larger target.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:37 PM, Assasin-TO said:

How is ''skill issue'' inappropriate, lmao? 

Idk, but I've seen people getting offended by the term in the past, which ultimately leads to flame wars and a series of personal provocation, so we remove the term now to prevent any future troubles.

 

On 1/9/2024 at 11:35 PM, Kimura said:

it takes to hide with flying monkey

I was wondering what happened to Kimura, posting diligently on the topics and forgetting his ever-lasting love for the flying hulls, but now everything is restored and stabilised.

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:14 PM, NikmanGT said:

I was wondering what happened to Kimura, posting diligently on the topics and forgetting his ever-lasting love for the flying hulls, but now everything is restored and stabilised

If Flying Monkey has a million of haters I am one of them.
If Flying Monkey has ten haters then I am one of them.

If Flying Monkey has only one hater then it's me.

If Flying Monkey has no haters I am no longer on Earth.

If the world is with Flying Monkey I am against the world.

 

Spoiler

This is me destroying flying monkey. (I'll gladly abuse it for my own benefit though.)

 

[DefkwargX 152]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:24 PM, Kimura said:

Flying Monkey

''Flying trashcan'' was better though

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:34 AM, master_howitzer said:

get rid of the vertical auto assist aim for mouse controls. this old feature should be for keyboard controls only.

 

Lol? The user input mode does not give you any extra auto aim assist, who let you cook?

 

On 1/9/2024 at 1:34 AM, master_howitzer said:

 

its unfair enough getting hit by impact force while using mouse controls doesnt move the camera like it does with keyboard controls.

The camera may not move a lot, but the tank does still move the same. If you're still using keyboard only, in this day and age, it's kinda a you problem tbh. Many other games include mouse.

[Son_Goku 514]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having an actual crosshair that follows you around, but having to aim vertically with mouse kind of doesn't fit to Tanki, in my opinion. Often, you end up having to adjust your camera in a way that you look down because of how the gameplay is, I can't see manual vertical aiming work like that.

Mouse would need another camera perspective for that to work, and I can imagine that that could become troublesome. Not just for players, but also for our dear developers.

By the way, most of us mouse players used to be keyboard players as well. Back then, there were no mouse controls And mind you, if we receive a reticle that isn't static like the current one, you will probably start to encounter lots of people who seem to have an aim bot. Microadjusting will be REALLY easy then.

[Blutaar 1,904]

Pretty sure we had this very same discussion a couple months ago. Couldn't find the topic, if anyone has the link please post it here. It will save alot of time and effort debating over the factual point that mouse controls are simply superior to keyboard controls.

Having your camera and thus turret focused at one direction is much more convenient and practical for gameplay. Minimal effects of impact force, aligning your weapon with your target, flexible camera-orientation, making use of the vertical-aiming system more effectively, you name it. All players are free to choose which controls to use. Hell, most FPS are exclusively playable using mouse controls, props to the devs for even offering keyboard controls to players. It is also totally OK if you refuse to learn and use mouse controls, but then don't complain that the other mechanic and control system - to which everyone has access by the way - performs better. 

[Iquit 101]

yep gotta make the game easy for little timmy and friends to play. point and click the tanks dead with buyer augments

everyone of you saying keyboard only controls are obsolete have to be a biggest bunch of zoomers ever that need the game to play itself for you even remotely play well.

auto vertical aim should be only for keyboard controls

On 1/11/2024 at 8:42 AM, Blutaar said:

Pretty sure we had this very same discussion a couple months ago. Couldn't find the topic, if anyone has the link please post it here. It will save alot of time and effort debating over the factual point that mouse controls are simply superior to keyboard controls.

Having your camera and thus turret focused at one direction is much more convenient and practical for gameplay. Minimal effects of impact force, aligning your weapon with your target, flexible camera-orientation, making use of the vertical-aiming system more effectively, you name it. All players are free to choose which controls to use. Hell, most FPS are exclusively playable using mouse controls, props to the devs for even offering keyboard controls to players. It is also totally OK if you refuse to learn and use mouse controls, but then don't complain that the other mechanic and control system - to which everyone has access by the way - performs better. 

yeah it performs a little too well. almost like the game is playing itself. doing all the work for you. 

you dont need or deserve vertical auto aim with your trivial mouse controlled hover hull tank. you know you dont

but you will continue to have it. the game devs wont change anything. minimum effort and max profit. striker HD should have made an appearance by now but no

your automatic "game plays itself" gameplay wont ever have to change

[Iquit 101]

@DefkwargX you said a lot slander in that first large message.

I dont understand what you were talking about with horizonal auto aiming and mouse controls having better or worse vertical auto aim

I just want to see a mouse controlled aim cursor on the mouse controlled players screen with no more help from the game aiming vertically

 

[alkyng 3,080]

This is actually a very good notice from you that flying monkeys are interacting with impact force way better than natural hulls. This is an old video of mine explaining this

Your suggested nerf can't be more than a common sense thing to have in the game if they cared with the little amount of sincerity about the balance. Why ever the need for vertical auto-aim for mouse?

On 1/9/2024 at 1:47 PM, Maf said:

The aiming mechanism would likely need a complete rework, which could require dozens of man-hours.

Like lol you can never respond to any idea except by initializing your comment with an exaggeration about how it will drain tanki's little wallet and developers' time. Turning off the auto aim for flying monkeys would DEFINITEYL take 500 man hours

On 1/9/2024 at 1:47 PM, Maf said:

• The change would not be received well by the users. Most existing mouse users would hate it, most keyboard users wouldn't care about it, and only a tiny portion of keyboard players like yourself would be happy to see mouse users struggle with aim.

This feels less like an idea to improve the game and more like you wanting mouse users to suffer because you hate to see mouse controls having an advantage while at the same time refusing to switch from the inferior keyboard.

 

The change would balance the game more. EVERYONE would feel this, even if they didn't understand that part of the problem was the auto help for flying monkeys. 

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:42 PM, Blutaar said:

Having your camera and thus turret focused at one direction is much more convenient and practical for gameplay. Minimal effects of impact force, aligning your weapon with your target, flexible camera-orientation, making use of the vertical-aiming system more effectively, you name it. All players are free to choose which controls to use. Hell, most FPS are exclusively playable using mouse controls, props to the devs for even offering keyboard controls to players. It is also totally OK if you refuse to learn and use mouse controls, but then don't complain that the other mechanic and control system - to which everyone has access by the way - performs better. 

except gachiafied tank game is not FPS game. It's a third person unbalanced game that can barely attract a single player.

the so called mega good big daddy wohoo mouse controls took me a whopping 3 MINUTES to completely learn. Very hard. Now what extra "features" did I get after grinding like a madman for such crazy amount of time?
1. almost instant camera rotation anywhere you want. even behind you. But you can do the same with keyboard controls  !! except you don't have to move the tank which instantly gives an advantage over players who actually use an organ called "Brain". When someone is looking front and you're behind him you don't just expect for him to "conveniently" turn around for no reason.

2. vulcan + flying monkey.

3. impact force doesn't make a difference. You can add an augment that gives railgun +99999% impact force and all that would happen after hitting so called "hard to use controls" user is their hull spinning but turret still in the same place maybe a little aim throw of for 1 second. 

Oh wait you're naming all the "convenient and practical" features yourself. Well then if everyone is so happy about mouse controls why are you not happy when I use my "convenient and practical" augments called Hyperspeed, Helios, Faust, Crisis etc.? Everyone has access to that just get lucky and they do make your performance better

On 1/20/2024 at 7:52 AM, firety31 said:

Like lol you can never respond to any idea except by initializing your comment with an exaggeration about how it will drain tanki's little wallet and developers' time. Turning off the auto aim for flying monkeys would DEFINITEYL take 500 man hours

its tanki online we're talking about. It would ACTUALLY take them 500+ man hours.

[DefkwargX 152]

On 1/19/2024 at 10:07 PM, master_howitzer said:

 you said a lot slander in that first large message

I only mentioned ''cognitive dissonance'' because you contradicted yourself and ''skill issue'' because if you were skilled enough, u wouldn't be complaining or if you were smart enough, u would learn how to use mouse.

 

On 1/9/2024 at 5:34 AM, master_howitzer said:

get rid of the vertical auto assist aim for mouse controls. this old feature should be for keyboard controls only.

This sentence implies that mouse and keyboard are both equal in terms of vertical aim assist.

 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 5:34 AM, master_howitzer said:

if youre using mouse controls, the game is practically playing itself and you are just along for the ride.

put an aim cursor on the screen and make little timmy manually vertically aim his rapid fire turret himself

This sentence suggest that the vertical aim assist for mouse is better than that of keyboard (when the vertical aim assist for both are equal)

Didn't you just contradict yourself? I think that you're a bit confused.

 

 

On 1/19/2024 at 10:07 PM, master_howitzer said:

I dont understand what you were talking about with horizonal auto aiming

It's something that i believe exists, but i'm not sure about it.

 

 

On 1/19/2024 at 10:07 PM, master_howitzer said:

I just want to see a mouse controlled aim cursor on the mouse controlled players screen with no more help from the game aiming vertically

Your idea doesn't make any sense because of the way tanki controls are. When you press the ''q'' and ''e'' buttons, you can raise/lower your camera angle. What if you keep on pressing q until the camera is directly over your tank (or at 90 degrees), and you want to aim at a tank a bit above you PRECISELY using mouse controls? Just answer this.

Also, It would make more sense for you to just learn how to use mouse controls, rather than forcefully and unnecessarily removing an integral feature of the game, just to accommodate your tastes and preferences.

[DefkwargX 152]

On 1/20/2024 at 9:52 AM, firety31 said:

This is actually a very good notice from you that flying monkeys are interacting with impact force way better than natural hulls.

I argued with a lot of players and admins concerning this issue. Seems like nobody cares.

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/20/2024 at 9:52 AM, firety31 said:

Like lol you can never respond to any idea except by initializing your comment with an exaggeration about how it will drain tanki's little wallet and developers' time. Turning off the auto aim for flying monkeys would DEFINITEYL take 500 man hours

You're not "turning something off". You're completely changing the way aiming works.

It's like if you took a car with an automatic gearbox and decided to "turn off" the automatic part and make it manual. You don't just take out the gearbox and call it a day, you have to install a manual gearbox, install a clutch pedal, change the electronics, change the dashboard, replace the control module, adjust the drivetrain, and probably a dozen other things that I don't know about because I'm not a car guy.

Same thing with implementing a "simple" change that OP is suggesting.

On 1/20/2024 at 9:52 AM, firety31 said:

The change would balance the game more. EVERYONE would feel this, even if they didn't understand that part of the problem was the auto help for flying monkeys. 

What are you even on about? Mouse controls were a natural upgrade to the outdated keyboard control system. Yes, it helps with hover hulls, but it wasn't created for hover hulls specifically. And it won't improve game balance because the difference in controls does not significantly affect game balance in the first place.